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NPC-purchased POS stuff reprocessing EVIL OPPORTUNITY

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AnakieNine	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:00:00 - [181] After a day building a model containing everything PI related from start to finish I can say that itÆs not messy for CCP to fix. It just means changing 2 ratios in the PI chain, manual adjustment of a couple of the BPOs build requirements and changing the m3 to match them so freight doesn't become a problem. One other thing unrelated that I wonÆt mention :) With that said, expect a week before we see anything. Q.A. etc. The end result of it all should be that the refined materials are going to return almost the exact same profits that most of the t1 items currently do. The changes I see happening also fix a few other discrepancies that existed with several of NPC trade commodities that I didn't like during my first run over PI. So assume more of the PI chains will be utilized by planet owners that weren't in the current format. If I didn't know better I would guess that this was planned by someone within CCP to force the community to take over the existing NPC supply of sov and tower structures in a seamless way. Thanks to what has happened we can look forward to non price gouging from this patch. unlike several patches in the past. Bad luck there MD. :P Just think back to how long T3 took to come down to a fair price. I alone was easily making between 5-8 billion a day for months with t3 and I didn't even push into that market very hard. This time around if the fix is what seems most obvious we are going to get towers and sov structures at roughly the same prices that the NPC's are currently selling them for. This means people on planets will get paid exactly what CCP planed for them from the start. Way to go CCP!!! Refining players wonÆt be able to sell at a much higher price than the current NPC price due to the competition. It also shouldn't go much lower than the existing NPC prices either as most refiners wonÆt want to sell for a loss on what they paid for the refined PI material. Many will also gamble on it going up after some time. When PI production finally kicks in from planets they could push the price down as the "minerals I mine are free" crowd often do that, however itÆs going to be a balancing act of current supply from refining being replaced by planet goo. To fix that long term I personally wouldn't care if CCP left all the old NPC orders up until the system is working smoothly and allow smart players to continue making a couple of % here and there via continued use of monitoring, refining and re-building. Ie normal trading for many. It would hold as a kind of a temporary price cap for PI until the system is mature. This technique would be no different than CCP used for years in the minerals. Just think back to refining silo's for trit which occurred for a long time or npc buy sell orders, or even rat npc drops of massive amounts of trit. This would be the fairest position for all but it means a boring patch for the MD crowd looking to make billions in speculation. So for now letÆs allow CCP to bring out the changes. This time it will be Q.A to a inch of its life. :P
Narfas Deteis	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:42:00 - [182] News of a day: CCP removed all POS related NPC sell orders.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:54:00 - [183] Originally by: Narfas Deteis News of a day: CCP removed all POS related NPC sell orders. gods
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2010.05.29 13:02:00 - [184] Good thing I bought what I needed yesterday.
Vilgan i'Lakin Pirates and Ninjas	Posted - 2010.05.29 13:04:00 - [185] Originally by: Narfas Deteis News of a day: CCP removed all POS related NPC sell orders. Better late than never. Really should have done this yesterday though.
Boogie Bobby	Posted - 2010.05.29 16:07:00 - [186] Originally by: Vilgan i'Lakin Originally by: Narfas Deteis News of a day: CCP removed all POS related NPC sell orders. Better late than never. Really should have done this yesterday though. Yup, the horse is loooong gone. Congrats to everyone who has made and will make a fortune from this.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.29 16:20:00 - [187] Originally by: Boogie Bobby Congrats to everyone who has made and will make a fortune from this. Hear, hear. If it wasn't for cheating and other opportunities I would have no competition. Be far too boring otherwise. So here's to you, those who will sell out because they have nothing else of value. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:03:00 - [188] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Boogie Bobby Congrats to everyone who has made and will make a fortune from this. Hear, hear. If it wasn't for cheating and other opportunities I would have no competition. Be far too boring otherwise. So here's to you, those who will sell out because they have nothing else of value. Damn my pesky remaining moral values an ethics, I have to completely get rid of them, they are stunting my wallet growth Nah, just kidding. I'm more than happy with what I already have, but more importantly, the way I got it. It's more exciting to play with a bit of a moral handicap _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:10:00 - [189] Originally by: Akita T It's more exciting to play with a bit of a moral handicap Well just because I won't indulge in skulduggery does not mean I didn't see what you did. Got yours, readied your position, then made sure everyone knew about it so that you can profit and be out quick like. And all the while still maintain the perception of scrupulous honesty. >wink< Still, nothing deceitful about it. Not at all. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:17:00 - [190] Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2010 18:26:06 Well, you could trust me when I tell you I didn't buy/reprocess any POS mods, ...or I could give you my full API key to check I am telling the truth (just ask for it and promise you won't divulge anything else except to confirm/deny my claims in here, then I'm sending it ASAP), ...but you could still choose to believe I took advantage with an alt that had a lot of ISK stashed away somehow (although you probably could tell there can't be any with the data you'll get) ...or that I loaned a lot of ISK with an alt from somebody else or something like that. So there's no way to conclusively prove I didn't make any ISK from it. I can try to convince you though, if you really cared to try to know. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:29:00 - [191] Nah, I trust you enough to not really care. Besides, I never presume to know exactly how someone profited from a situation. Right brain, left brain thingy. I just know, gut level, that you did. Intellectually, not enough ambition to think about it really. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:44:00 - [192] Well, I was hoping you'd care enough to want to find out, so you could be at least reasonably convinced I'm telling the truth, but eh... what can I do if you don't even want to ? It's kind of silly of me to want to have the trust/approval of people I probably never will meet, sure, but on some level I dislike this particular situation anyway. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:57:00 - [193] Originally by: Akita T stuff I'll hit you up eve-gate style. Better to take this part of the convo off the forums. Anyone else loving Eve-Gate yet? I am. Finally, a PM system. (If only CCP would integrate it more fully into the forums!) Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:02:00 - [194] It sucks that it "eats up" CR/LFs from the evemails. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:16:00 - [195] Originally by: Akita T It sucks that it "eats up" CR/LFs from the evemails. It's a work in progress. But I've hopes for the overall system. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Jan VanRijkdom	Posted - 2010.05.29 23:07:00 - [196] Skulduggery FTW. Am I right Akita? Eh, eh? wink/nudge
Morriganth	Posted - 2010.05.30 01:54:00 - [197] Edited by: Morriganth on 30/05/2010 01:53:45 nm
Mael Sechnaill	Posted - 2010.05.30 09:42:00 - [198] Edited by: Mael Sechnaill on 30/05/2010 09:46:11 Originally by: Yiulian Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Lots of OMG EXPLOIT shouts going on here, without anyone actually doing the math. This is what I don't like of EvE (posted a longer tantrum on Block's thread): in EvE if you are a jerk, a shark or worse, you are in the Nirvana. It's so NOT realistic that a sandbox only prizes the smart asses, the cheaters, the mongers. When I'll get out of this office later today, I don't expect someone to surely come out and kill me to take my 10 euros if given ANY opportunity. Somehow, the real sandbox is flexible enough to self regulate itself from the inside. Why EvE can't achieve something similar? It's like a shirt wearing too tight. Works, but you don't feel great. Because the real world is not a sandbox. This is true for the internet in general and eve as an extension of that: Take away the rules, and people will be pricks. Apparently many people have some hidden need to be a-holes which is held back only by rules, laws and the opinion of other people. Look at old school MMOs from before the carebear era, like UO. Not so different to the way eve works now. The real world doesn't self-regulate, well it does to an extent but mostly it is regulated by the government. Back in the times when this wasn't so much the case, I expect it was much like eve. You'd be ambling along on your way from A to B with the goods you spent all week last week producing, and someone would rob you and possibly kill you. If you lived in a nice little farming town on the coast, the danes would come once a year and take all your stuff and possibly your children/wife as well. Eve could easily achieve something similar but it would involve restricting the activities allowed in the sandbox, or only allowing them in certain areas of the sandbox. More realistic, yes, but I don't think most of the eve player base would like it much. Survival of the fittest always works in the favor of the unscrupulous. Well, generalizing is never a good way to know the actual facts. In today's "enlighted" materialist scientific culture, one always needs to assume the existence of some conditioning (even internal ones are percieved to be results of external ones). Simply, the idea of soul, ethics, morale, free will are more and more discarded when consciusness is seen as an appendice of competing genes. Fortunately, this is far from being the whole truth, and while traditional spirituality lost it's power because it too became exoteric, we see a new one pushing strongly from the domain of arts. What I see as faulty in MMO's in general is that they provide a virtual reality where freedom is pretty much restricted, advancement is artificially slowed down, and ultimatley is a mechanicist system where one realy can't stand out in any way. EVE is a sandbox, but as an artificial reality, it's still a prison. What can you do except be more rich than others, or have a higher number of kills ? Even your skills are pretty much the same. Customization is a mtyh. A nullsec PVP Vagabond will be flown by the cookie cutter pilot having a cookie cutter fit. Any disparity comes form being dispersed in time (subscription start) and space. But it indeed provides the perfect ILLUSION of freedom, exactly by allowing antisocial, immoral, unethical behaviour, indeed restricted by real life society.
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.05.30 19:41:00 - [199] Edited by: Kanatta Jing on 30/05/2010 19:42:02 2 and a half more days, to try and clear the excess PI modules off the market. It's a dirty job thankless job but someone has to do it. But it would sure be easier without the threat of POS modules comming back on the market.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.05.30 19:51:00 - [200] Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 30/05/2010 19:54:57 The primary object of a solution must be to make PI viable in fairly short order. The solution must be simple to minimise the possibility of causing additional unintended side effects. Compulsory purchase, at the start of downtime for the second Tyrannis patch, simply impound all stocks from hangers, market and contracts. Pay the corporation or player with ISK at an appropriate level. This 'appropriate level' could be at (average) cost, or below cost to balance out any pre-existing profiteering. OK some completed Towers and Outpost have been built, but these don't have a impact on the viability of PI going forward because the parts to build them have already been consumed. A few other interventions will probably be needed, like the balancing the NPC costs, but the biggest detriment to PI is eliminated. It could even be inserted into the current live events story line as 'planetary defence needs provoke compulsory purchase of vital defence platform components'.

DarkArtz Celestial Mayhem Honourable Templum of Alcedonia	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:23:00 - [201] Just give it up and seed command centers. Then after a day remove them without warning and seed bpos instead. Require PI materials to build the command centers and there will be enough demand to use up any extra PI material supply.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:25:00 - [202] Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Grozen This means that most calculations about PI are wrong? No, that's damage control No that is massive competition driving to near zero margins re-enforced by the my-time-is-free crowd.
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:33:00 - [203] Edited by: Tiberizzle on 30/05/2010 21:35:06 So where are the cheap POSes at? Shouldn't people be furiously shorting existing POS chains right about now to replace them with their shiny new 80m POSes ?
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:48:00 - [204] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 30/05/2010 19:54:57 The primary object of a solution must be to make PI viable in fairly short order. The solution must be simple to minimise the possibility of causing additional unintended side effects. Compulsory purchase, at the start of downtime for the second Tyrannis patch, simply impound all stocks from hangers, market and contracts. Pay the corporation or player with ISK at an appropriate level. This 'appropriate level' could be at (average) cost, or below cost to balance out any pre-existing profiteering. OK some completed Towers and Outpost have been built, but these don't have a impact on the viability of PI going forward because the parts to build them have already been consumed. A few other interventions will probably be needed, like the balancing the NPC costs, but the biggest detriment to PI is eliminated. It could even be inserted into the current live events story line as 'planetary defence needs provoke compulsory purchase of vital defence platform components'. Or they could just let the market run dry. An astounding amount of POS modules are purchased every day in Empire and maintaining the supply between now and whenever The first harvests of PI come in should severely deplete the finite supply of materials available.
Paul Clavet Honorless Internet Jerks	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:22:00 - [205] Posting to confirm that I bought a billion ISK worth of random PI junk the day before the refining was disabled, and resold them the day after for approximately 120% profit. Thanks, MD! ---- Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.06.02 05:40:00 - [206] All in all I reprocessed: 8 Coupling Arrays 3 Moon Harvesting Arrays 6 Small Pulse Batteries 4 Medium Pulse Batteries After that I simply bought materials, and manufactured at wildly various levels of Profit. Actually I think I made more money buying materials then I did reprocessing, probably because no one knows what anything is worth. I'm still 10 million shy from breaking even, but I have 67 million in Silos on the market at below the old market price and another 110 million worth of Large Beam Lasers in the oven. And I have to call the 150 million in BPO's a profit, just not an exciting profit. I don't think this has been any worse exploit wise then buying shuttles off of NPC orders and refining them. You remember that right? When Trit was 2 ISK and nothing could change it?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:41:00 - [207] Originally by: Qoi On an unrelated sidenote, according to the EVE API, the completion status ID 3 means "GM aborted". It's probably true ! motherofgod.jpg _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:47:00 - [208] evil things are happening. http://www.eve-offline.net/ the server status is active, but none of us has the right protocols. my guess is GMs are busy little santa clauses at the moment.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.06.02 12:44:00 - [209] Apparently, nope : Originally by: Chaos Incarnate jobs were not cancelled, mine are all still cooking. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.06.02 13:04:00 - [210] Originally by: Akita T Apparently, nope : Originally by: Chaos Incarnate jobs were not cancelled, mine are all still cooking. santa claus left f\|_\|king coal.



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