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The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:35:00 -
[61]
CCP has spit in the face of their hardwork on Tyrannis.
If its possible in Eve, how then can it be an exploit... buying, reprocessing, selling... nothing unusual about it. But its stupid, and whatever worth PI was going to have for entry level players is gone.
Tyrannis = insurance nerf and eve economy fumble.
Sigh...
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:48:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 22:53:44 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 22:51:39 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 22:48:49 The only way Tyrannis will have a normal start is if we tell everyone who has money how to lose it.So heres a hint examine the building reqs for tower.Now examine the recycle materials for Rapid equipment assembly array and if in doubt try to guess why 2.7k of them sold today about 24bil and 300m worth of stock. For those who are dumb recycle produce at planet 250% profit=zomg ccp what have you done
I'm not going to guess how many ppl entered but once npc order bites the dust its going to be one hell a fight.Gallente towers for 100m? knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:55:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Grozen Rapid equipment assembly array
Cyno gen beacon and cyno jammer are also looking pretty decent. One is better than REAA, the other is worse than REEA, but they're in the same rough ballpark, and you can get a nice spread of P4s by mixing and matching. There might be more, not just those three
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.27 22:55:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Professor Leech This is a way of ccp seeding the market so that PI gets a soft start. As compared to people screaming that there aren't any pos, pos guns on the market, fuel or other issues. It also has the effect of removing a lot of isk from the game at the same time.
We are not talking about the existence of NPC sell orders for stuff, but about the IMBALANCES in reprocessing yields of various POS structures. It's not just as if they kept NPC sell orders up a while longer, it's as if they radically LOWERED the NPC sell order value. So, no, that's not a soft start for PI, it's the kick in the balls before even having any balls in the first place, ensuring that no balls grow any time soon.
You seem rather angry about this. I do recall chasing after your alt's pod in 0.0 a long time ago during the first delve invasion. You stated that you make most of your profits around patch time, are you sure that you don't have a vested interest here?
On the flip side the "cheap" modules are going to be very expensive after the patch due to their construction requirements.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:07:00 -
[65]
Thx for the heads up CSJ defo looking to be the hot stuff atm with jesus fking 12.2k units sold=87b some deep pocket invesment here... I'm still wondering if this is going to be total market crash after everyone and his mother put towers/labs up for sale. knowledge is power |
The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:07:00 -
[66]
You dont even have to do the math... its blatantly obvious from the forge volumes on the hot-to-reprocess bits.
Moon miner Rapid equip cyno sys jammer
Those are the three to mix and match for building towers. Key ingredients are integrity response drone, nano factory, and sterile conduits.
And no 100M is way off the mark per tower. You can build them at 100M and have oodles of leftovers... more like 100M for large tower + ALL bits (guns, reactors, whatever).
+1 for server roll back
I doubt they have the manpower to rework their entire economic model for Tyrannis to account for it at this point.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:09:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Professor Leech You seem rather angry about this.
Another expansion basically wasted from a profitability-for-the-general-public-as-opposed-to-just-people-like-me before it even started ? You bet I'm angry!
Quote: You stated that you make most of your profits around patch time, are you sure that you don't have a vested interest here?
Yeah, if CCP doesn't fix it soon, or at least acknowledges it as a problem that needs fixing, I fully intend to exploit the **** out of it. I still have time until June 8. And, this time, it would actually involve some marginal effort on my part (which I'm not really keen to make). You know, as opposed to my usual "ready spreadsheets, several hours ; put up orders = 5 minutes, log back next day to modify orders = 5 minutes until done, wait a couple of months, put up orders = 5 minutes, log back next day to modify orders = 5 minutes until done". I'm still holding a tiny sliver of hope that they'll change it, but given CCP's past history, I'm not convinced it even has a half-decent chance of happening.
Quote: On the flip side the "cheap" modules are going to be very expensive after the patch due to their construction requirements.
Except that people would just keep enough of them stockpiled unreprocessed, so they won't go up TOO much in price. Not much more than their components anyway, unless CCP changes their build requirements.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:13:00 -
[68]
So in theory we probably won't be able to see the true impact of this expansion for at least another 7months from now when the supply would probably start wearing down.Basically the richer just got richer if i had 100b atm i'd totally hold for year before i even think of building this. knowledge is power |
Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:14:00 -
[69]
I understand completely. However, you did request that PI be delayed and this is the result. :ccp:
Time to run this into the ground.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:19:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 23:20:07 Tbh i'm tempted like everyone else to poor some isk into this but the stuff i do is safe meaning i know that what i do won't get me in trouble and this.... just screams nerf me.
I'd wait until june 7 before i decide cuz besides one reply to the big question that this is not deemed exploit yet isn't enough i have to see someone else make a post on the forums from the devs because if they do nerf it then that will be A LOT of PAIN for many wallets. knowledge is power |
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:25:00 -
[71]
Now the horse has bolted you can't move everything back.
CCP will only be able to handle this one way (which they have done in the past), which is to nerf what the 3 oddballs reprocess into.
Most of the POS reprocessing is logical and the build requirements mainly even out (territorial claim unit/jump bridge/mobile lab all need same components).
There are 3 modules that have caused a huge issue. The fact is there will be industrialists who will reprocess enough stuff to last a year or so, making PI a waste of time to actually put anything on planet.
If you want cheap PI stuff buy it now and reprocess before the mini-patch alters reprocessing loot.
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:28:00 -
[72]
Edited by: mental maverick on 27/05/2010 23:35:44 Edited by: mental maverick on 27/05/2010 23:32:04 What would a nerf be if they decide to go that way?
More yield from extractors? That would still make POS structures ludicrously cheap wouldn't it?
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Thanatoe
Fairlight Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:31:00 -
[73]
nerfing the three items that give alot of P4 loot. Drop their returns on reprocessing. At least for the next two weeks.
They really need too.
God knows how they can sort out the bilions already spent on Pos mods today.
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:31:00 -
[74]
Some of the modules involved may or may not require rebalancing with respect to their build requirements. Unless, of course, they are intended to become more expensive after the next patch. This could be intended either way.
On the flip side it has generated a lot of interest in PI. Now that I have the spreadsheets for this I'm marginally interested in PI whereas previously I didn't care.
The design of PI has some depth and the production process should help PI products retain value in a robust manner (despite the current influx of P4 products). Though there are probably a few people geared up to milk the system right after the patch who have been nerfed by this.
That and the tears are fantastic.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:32:00 -
[75]
Originally by: mental maverick What would a nerf be if they decide to go that way?
More yield from extractors? That would still make POS structures ludicrously cheap wouldn't it?
No, just change what REAA, cyno jammer, cyno generator array and moon miner process into. At the moment they will be very expensive to make, but at present are cheap to buy and reprocess (relatively).
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:32:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 23:34:32 The only way to counter it would be to boost the production of tier 3 and 4 products by huge amounts.
Meaning they could increase both extractor outputs and facilities outputs and building for example tier1 will make 1k of tier 2, t2 will make 500 of t3 and t3 about200 of t4 and it could destroy peoples wallets in a snap.
So hell no i'm puting my cash into this yet.
Other than that what cosmo said and i could also add they could also increase the npc price of the 3said cash cows to like 100m p/u but that's an after effect.My first theory is the only situation that will impact present amounts bought now. knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:33:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Professor Leech I understand completely. However, you did request that PI be delayed and this is the result. :ccp:
This could still have all been prevented by TEMPORARILY removing the ability to reprocess POS stuff as soon as the issue became public knowledge.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:35:00 -
[78]
Quote: No, just change what REAA, cyno jammer, cyno generator array and moon miner process into. At the moment they will be very expensive to make, but at present are cheap to buy and reprocess (relatively).
Wouldnt doing it that way let those who have allready bought and reprocessed to keep their stockpile. That wouldn't help making PI worth while for a long time if the stockpiles get to big before they nerf it...?
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:36:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Professor Leech I understand completely. However, you did request that PI be delayed and this is the result. :ccp:
This could still have all been prevented by TEMPORARILY removing the ability to reprocess POS stuff as soon as the issue became public knowledge.
Indeed , If infact CCP were listening to their customers they would do it the moment akita made first topics.
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:36:00 -
[80]
On the up side; demand for couriers has probably gone up.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:38:00 -
[81]
Originally by: mental maverick
Quote: No, just change what REAA, cyno jammer, cyno generator array and moon miner process into. At the moment they will be very expensive to make, but at present are cheap to buy and reprocess (relatively).
Wouldnt doing it that way let those who have allready bought and reprocessed to keep their stockpile. That wouldn't help making PI worth while for a long time if the stockpiles get to big before they nerf it...?
Exactly that wouldn't help at all the only way to nerf it is the one i posted above.Presently Pi is not worth doing for anything else besides pos fuel and even that can be bought in fairly large amounts to keep them running for year before you even need to look for them. knowledge is power |
Thanatoe
Fairlight Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:38:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Professor Leech I understand completely. However, you did request that PI be delayed and this is the result. :ccp:
This could still have all been prevented by TEMPORARILY removing the ability to reprocess POS stuff as soon as the issue became public knowledge.
Totally agree there Akita. Would solve alot of problems actually.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:43:00 -
[83]
So far today:
1. About 12,000 units of Cyno System Jammer purchased in Forge region 2. About 3,000 units of Rapid Equipment Assembly Array purchased in Forge region
It would be almost impossible to wipe all the reprocessing jobs, as people have probably set up manufacturing jobs with the loot, paid the station fees for starting the jobs, market sales, etc.
Mini-nerf in what the above 2 items re-processes into coming to Eve in the next 2-3 days. The window of opportunity will close.
So market effects:
1. Price crash for most POS items initially as people clear the inventory. 2. PI will be unprofitable until inventory is cleared from this reprocessing rush 3. Market won't settle down for many months.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:45:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Professor Leech On the up side; demand for couriers has probably gone up.
WAY up, for sure. I mean, damn, there must be close to 2 billion m^3 of materials that need to be transported, and it's likely to go up much more in the weekend, I wouldn't exclude 10 or even 20 bil m^3 total before Monday.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:47:00 -
[85]
If they change the output of everything aka t1 makes 2k t2 and visa versa it will be hell for everyone involved.It has been 2days after deployment and this is like playing with fire.Are ccp that stupid to leave things as they are?and what makes you certain cosmo that they will not do anything besides preventing further abuse? knowledge is power |
mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:50:00 -
[86]
I'm kinda curious how much damage have allready been done, how long would stockpiles last going by what has been bought and reprocessed in Forge today?
Akita, your good with numbers, go go go!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:51:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Grozen It has been 2days after deployment and this is like playing with fire.Are ccp that stupid to leave things as they are?and what makes you certain cosmo that they will not do anything besides preventing further abuse?
They seldom revert mistakes AFTER they happen. Yes, it's somewhat risky, but not how you make it sound - worst case scenario is that you get slightly less than what you invested back, but much more likely, far less profit than you expected. Still, a decent chance of 15-20% profit on a multi-billion investment over 3-4 months, with minimal chance of loss... how could you pass this up ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:55:00 -
[88]
From The Forge numbers there could be enough products to produce roughly 15,000 large pos. In rough terms minus the cap parts.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:58:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 00:04:01 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 23:59:43 I'm not saying i don't want free cash everyone does.But this could also be the first ever CCP rage on players that does direct big dmg aka wallet ****, ban and so on.I certainly don't wanna be in there IF it happens.
There's first time for everything and somehow even as you say ccp revert mistakes after they happen this is not a small mistake.
Even if a nerf comes in the next 5days people would have already bought close to trillion of PI stuff making PI useless not for year but at least for 3years ahead.
Somehow i don't think they will leave the situation without taking severe measures if they care for their expansion as much as they say they do.
Last i read they have separate team specially for PI and i can't imagine how important that is to them because PI is directly linked to DUST.
In short:
I'm scared.
edit: CSJ volume bought just jumped by 7b Also whats stoping ccp from making t1=t4 and t4=t1? knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:05:00 -
[90]
Copypasta from the other thread:
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I can see alliances easily dumping half a TRILLION ISK EACH into this if it's allowed to continue, which it will be, because CCP isn't fast enough to fix it. This could well end up being one of the worst CCP f*ck ups in the history of the game. Again, hilarious.
I nominate PIPOCALYPSE-NOW! for the "Worst CCP Screwup EVER" Award Let's recap : lowering value of most POS/outpost/sov related things almost one order of magnitude PLUS almost one entire expansion rendered pointless.
Any other contenders ? Maybe boot.ini, but that one wasn't nearly half as bad.
Originally by: Blane Xero Chances of this being reverted/calles a sploit/not being touched and destroying PI, in order of chance of happening please? Need to see if its worth jumping into this only to find out 19h later its been plugged and i now have a few assets i don't need.
Not being touched and PI gone up in flames : 55% Reprocess freeze and/or component makeup altering : 25% Being lightly altered so PI gets barely by : 15% (it's quite difficult at this point) Server rollback : 5% (never happened before, doubt it will ever happen)
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