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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:06:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Professor Leech on 28/05/2010 00:07:32 That's a lot of fear mongering for one post. How many freighter loads have you sent to jita?
e: post got paged. I'm looking at you Grozen.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Professor Leech From The Forge numbers there could be enough products to produce roughly 15,000 large pos. In rough terms minus the cap parts.
add in the other regions Ive checked, well lets just say the developers at CCP now have a product thats suposed to tie into Dust. . . that has almost no reason for anyone to toutch any time soon
There had better be the Dev blog from G-D very soon and I dont meean Soon(tm) Im talking monday.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:09:00 -
[93]
If your numbers are correct Prof. Leech, and estimated demand of large towers at 50 per day in forge, that would mean there are 300 days worth of large towers.
Haven't checked other POS mods demand but this is from the first day of reprocessing. If this goes on for another 2-3 days there could be an entire year worth of POS mods in stockpile before PI hits.
I believe a, oops , is in order
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:13:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 00:16:03 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 00:14:25
Originally by: Professor Leech Edited by: Professor Leech on 28/05/2010 00:07:32 That's a lot of fear mongering for one post. How many freighter loads have you sent to jita?
e: post got paged. I'm looking at you Grozen.
Trust me none and i'm being honest and serious, also evil.....I filled a petition today under exploits for this to see if i can get an answer(and i did get 1 which was"your petition is filled in the wrong place wait while we redirect it and then nothing happened) and possibly destroy the already bought amounts of PI stuff.
Yes i wanna hurt people if i was ccp dev you'd already be crying over your wallet, but i'm not so i'm still trying to bring their attention to the matter and if they say lol noob we don't care, well i have no reason then not to join the bandwagon with whatever i got spare in my wallet
I'm not a big PI fan but this is giving unfair advantage to some people and destroying the expansion.
edit: now let me feel your hate knowledge is power |
Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:16:00 -
[95]
As I'm not at home with my spreadsheets my estimate that the current PI products would last around two months for all pos and pos module demand, excluding fuel requirements.
CCP are getting a massive isk sink out of this.
Despite the repro there are certain products that will experience shortages soon after the patch.
There is also a manufacturing bottleneck due to a 1b isk bpo that producers will end up purchasing.
Should be a lot of fun with the market volitility even if CCP do not remove the npc orders prior to the patch.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:20:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Professor Leech As I'm not at home with my spreadsheets my estimate that the current PI products would last around two months for all pos and pos module demand, excluding fuel requirements.
CCP are getting a massive isk sink out of this.
Despite the repro there are certain products that will experience shortages soon after the patch.
There is also a manufacturing bottleneck due to a 1b isk bpo that producers will end up purchasing.
Should be a lot of fun with the market volitility even if CCP do not remove the npc orders prior to the patch.
Your estimates can't be correct yet and will not be probably until june 8 because people are constantly bying. knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:25:00 -
[97]
Well, if by the weekend it's not fixed, I fully expect the majority of alliances to do their pre-emptive shopping, so, umm, what, 2 to 3 TRILLION ISK sunk into it in one weekend, maybe ? Or, maybe a lot more, since, hell, can you say no to a ~5 bil ISK outpost bargain ? Bye bye PI P4s, you will not really be missed since nobody really got to know you ! See you in 2 to 3 years
Well, the good news is that POS fuel will be somewhat profitable eventually, as the current stockpiles get exhausted in maybe half a year or so ? They're "cheap" enough to not trigger a massive purchase spree. Not much to speak of, but still better than nothing.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:25:00 -
[98]
Don't forget that this is being run into the ground and those not able to make use of the products will panic and try to dump products. Then they'll realise they should have retained them, and so on.
Yes, my estimates are for only that point in time. However, my forecast for tears is many.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:32:00 -
[99]
I wouldn't mind couple of adv labs for 30m each knowledge is power |
Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:33:00 -
[100]
Here's the way CCP will fix this:
CCP to database DEVS: Go add a "0" to P4 output and also to P4 materials requirements on BPOs.
Database DEVS: Done.
This means, if any alliance wants to manufacture 40 outposts, do it in the next few days.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:05:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 01:05:54 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 01:05:09 Atm this is so well known that i'm already having doubts about the profitability.I like to sell fast and this goes totally against the word fast.
We'll be probably looking at intense market war the first few weeks and you know what they say never put all your eggs in one basket.
Atm even fuel looks more attractive. knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:06:00 -
[102]
You got mail !
Bug Report Processed (~7 minutes ago) Thank you for your bugreport - ID:95974 Title: CRITICAL ! Adoption of PI threatened by reprocessable POS structures (contents - tl;dr of the EDG thread) "We are already aware of this problem, and have added your bugreport to the existing issue in our defect tracking system."
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:09:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Professor Leech on 28/05/2010 01:14:28 That's great news Akita. I look forward to this issue being addressed by 2014.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:10:00 -
[104]
That's interesting.I'm defo not buying anything after seeing this.Now lets see how they solve it.... knowledge is power |
Glafri
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:18:00 -
[105]
Funny, I got this response after a petition which I escelated due to it not being a bug rather an oversight by CCP.
------------------------- Hello,
We are not declaring this to be an exploit. We have made the devs aware of this, and they are looking into if they will change the reprocessing values, or allow this to remain. But no, we are not calling it an exploit.
Best regards, GM ****** Eve Online Customer Support
-------------------------------
Hope this adds to the confusion.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:18:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Professor Leech That's great news Akita. I look forward to this issue being addressed by 2014.
My thoughts exactly But hey, a bit more fear never hurt anybody, at least SOME people will think twice before jumping on the bandwagon _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:21:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Akita T Well, if by the weekend it's not fixed, I fully expect the majority of alliances to do their pre-emptive shopping, so, umm, what, 2 to 3 TRILLION ISK sunk into it in one weekend, maybe ? .
Not sunk
Literaly Vaporised from the EvE economy
because remember currently thoes bits are all NPC items.and NPCs dont buy thoes items.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:24:00 -
[108]
There is a mistake in your bug report as well. PI is not threatened by reprocessing. Only the supply via npc orders.
Now if only we could build ships with PI goods and insurance fraud them.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots Hostile Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:29:00 -
[109]
CCP could simply put up buy orders for those given items and P4 goods. I mean, theoretically, all those NPC corps need those items - at say, a high profit for a month. Profit would have to be higher than the Jita prices. People sell, get their money, and CCP fixes PI.
That will never happen. But it was an idea.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:34:00 -
[110]
I think we can totally scrap the idea of good profit here short term.The more i look at it the more i begin to think that towers will be far from the 50m mark and what happens when somebody who needs isk starts dumping below build price?Panic? knowledge is power |
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Vilgan i'Lakin
Pirates and Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:09:00 -
[111]
Most of the items reproc in an intelligent fashion. Those 3 are an obvious problem that needs to get fixed.
I don't really think its the end of the world. It'll prop up PI until it isn't a horrible mess (in several iterations). Its also not going to be some super fountain of isk (imo) due to the fact everyone and their grandmother's uncles dog is jumping into it. Is it odds on to make isk? Sure, long as you don't mind sitting on it for 9 months. Some traders can do that, but many will lose patience after a month or two imo. Also capital construction parts BPOs will be a lot cheaper once pos prices crash and everyone is trying to liquidate :P
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Boogie Bobby
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:20:00 -
[112]
Has anyone considered that this wasn't completely an error?
The major problem is they created a huge gap between current NPC prices of seeded items and what they could be refined, rebuilt and resold for, yes? Additionally you can sit on the goods and slowly sell off, which will hold PI prices at least at the ceiling of the value of whatever is being refined, right? If they had got that right and allowed a small profit, the logistics networks and production/research of BPOs and most importantly a buzz and interest in PI and the industrial processes involved in it would have been created. Instead it's just a goldrush/stockpile which is extra amusing since beyond the first people to clue in, everyone else joining the fun is just pushing prices down and prolonging the agony which will begin 8 Jun.
Massive supply, but where's the demand when everyone can do this? Simply being able to produce cheaper than NPC seeds doesn't mean people will buy it, especially now the cat's outta the bag.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:20:00 -
[113]
The plot thickens? REAA and Cynojammers show "0" volume for yesterday in The Forge. Is CCP trying to suppress what is now common knowledge?
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:35:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Alice Celadon The plot thickens? REAA and Cynojammers show "0" volume for yesterday in The Forge. Is CCP trying to suppress what is now common knowledge?
its been reset every few hours i noticed that after i saw 12k volume few hours later it was 0 and 2hours later 1k again.Now its 0 again.The reason is not known for now. knowledge is power |
Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:42:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Grozen
Originally by: Alice Celadon The plot thickens? REAA and Cynojammers show "0" volume for yesterday in The Forge. Is CCP trying to suppress what is now common knowledge?
its been reset every few hours i noticed that after i saw 12k volume few hours later it was 0 and 2hours later 1k again.Now its 0 again.The reason is not known for now.
Ah. This is likely a coding error where the database stored the volume number in a space 2^14 bits or something like that in order to save space. I wonder how many times the transaction volume spooled around 16,384? Heh heh.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:58:00 -
[116]
that or the system nukes any data that seems to be price manipulation
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:10:00 -
[117]
Looks like Integrity Response Drones and Nano-Factory are the bottlenecks of this loophole, though I have to check throughly many more reprocessing values. I may even do some PI myself at the end, lol.
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Kalanar
Wrecking Shots Hostile Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:40:00 -
[118]
The winners of this are going to be the people who hold onto their stuff in the long run.
1. Massive supply of T4 PI stuff causes decrease in equilibrium price. 2. Marginal revenue significantly because of the price drop (assuming that PI goods are sold in a perfectly competitive market, which pretty much everything in EVE is) 3. MR line drops below Average Total Cost and Average Variable Cost curve, causing firms to exit PI (or, in this case, sell their already bought goods at dirt cheap prices to pay off some costs). 4. Supply of PI stuff goes down 5. Equilbrium Price increases 6. People who held onto their stuff sell slowly, only slightly increasing supply 7. ??? 8. PROFIT!
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:02:00 -
[119]
Originally by: wakalaka Looks like Integrity Response Drones and Nano-Factory are the bottlenecks of this loophole, though I have to check throughly many more reprocessing values. I may even do some PI myself at the end, lol.
I would be far more worried about Capital Construction Parts right now. Using this P4 material to build anything for cheap requires CCPs, and no one has that in significant supply since it was previously only used in cap ships. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Vilgan i'Lakin
Pirates and Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:15:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: wakalaka Looks like Integrity Response Drones and Nano-Factory are the bottlenecks of this loophole, though I have to check throughly many more reprocessing values. I may even do some PI myself at the end, lol.
I would be far more worried about Capital Construction Parts right now. Using this P4 material to build anything for cheap requires CCPs, and no one has that in significant supply since it was previously only used in cap ships.
Going to be interesting to see how cheap CCP BPOs will be in a few weeks once the lemming rush to produce 59023242 of them kicks in :)
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