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Raeben
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Posted - 2010.06.11 21:51:00 -
[301]
+1. I get my spare cash from L4 missions and it's not even worth it now.
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Ildryn
The Inf1dels En Garde
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Posted - 2010.06.11 22:23:00 -
[302]
To all of you whining about the level 4 missions being sent into low most of the time....well it happens.
To all of you arguing with me about the level 5 missions. *working as intended*
And i know someone posted the same link already. I just had to give you whiners the finger anyway. 
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The Constructerer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.12 01:48:00 -
[303]
I gotta say that the changes are annoying. Isk per hour is really cut when every mission is sent out of system. I agree with changing to allow more diversity in mission locations (i.e. not every one in your agent's system), but having every mission run 1+ jumps out by default is not a good change.
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Amanda Eidolo
Adamantine Resolve
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Posted - 2010.06.12 03:24:00 -
[304]
The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are. So what if they only make 13m/hour AFK mining Veldspar in their Hulks? It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested.
Since when was this game about rewarding the shiftless? Who says miners should be earning more than they do at the moment in Empire? So what if Tritanium isn't worth what some random ****head says it should be worth? It's a fair income relative to the work, skill training time and ISK required to do it. It's as much of a joke as these PI fanbois thinking they can just AFK their days away and still make killa scrilla. **** that.
Pretty sad that CCP think it's what their player base wants. And some random ***got who suggested it to CCP at some point in the past doesn't count as 'player base'.
Crowd Control Productions: Proud Recipients of the 2010 "**** Our Customers Right Off" Award. Detect a powerful stench of USI. -------- ¦ |

Quagnar
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Posted - 2010.06.12 12:52:00 -
[305]
Once again, those who don't like the change are right! I have a player in my Corp named Vradon. He is by far one of the oldest characters in Eve. He beta tested the game and I have not seen a Character older. He has more skill points and has done more PVP in 0.0 than anyone posting here. He agrees that the change is Bovine Manure. Thats Bull Sh!! for all you 0.0 players. Miners who make alot of isk do it by macro mining, CCP should put a stop to that. Mission runners , like pvp players are the only ones at thier key boards actively playing the game. What does a low sec player care if a lvl 5 is in high sec every once and a while, other than this would mean less players to gank at gates or in missions. Once again a real world company that cares nothing of the opinons of the majority of its customer base. I think we should protest, all mission runners should gather in one system and cause so much lag that the system crashes.
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Esa Dahli
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Posted - 2010.06.12 14:55:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are.
You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell?
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Asuri Kinnes
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.06.12 15:47:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Ildryn I just had to give you whiners the finger anyway. 
,,l,,
Right back atcha' sweatpea!
Originally by: Esa Dahli
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are.
You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell?
Mining is the eve equivalent of picking vegetables... Boring and repetitive. So how well paid are the 'pickers again?
Macros are the ultimate winners of any mining buff that does not include *something* to make the operator interact w/the game. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist NO! |

Voith
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Posted - 2010.06.12 15:56:00 -
[308]
CCP is addressing the wrong issue, the problem isn't 0.0 vs LowSec vs HiSec, it is that Caladri ships makes PvE Facerolling easy.
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Kephael
Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P
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Posted - 2010.06.12 16:15:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Esa Dahli
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are.
You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell?
Empire mining is about the least profitable profession in the game. __________________________________________
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Esa Dahli
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Posted - 2010.06.12 21:31:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Esa Dahli on 12/06/2010 21:32:19
Originally by: Kephael
Originally by: Esa Dahli
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are.
You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell?
Empire mining is about the least profitable profession in the game.
Exactly, that's what the nerf is supposed to fix! Less minerals from m0 loot, better price for minerals.
Also, the example of real world vegetable picking doesn't apply in Eve: in RL this job is for the less educated, or students, which is a phenomenon not present in the Eve economy (anyone can basically do anything even with low skills). A better comparison would be oil rig operators, now that pays well.
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dosperado
Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition
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Posted - 2010.06.13 00:57:00 -
[311]
Nearly every transport mission with my highsec lvl4 agent is to lowsec now. IS THIS INTENDED CCP? People will do missions on much fewer agents now to avoid the lowsec missions! This is not a solution CCP!...Those systems get overcrowded more easily. I reduced my EVE playtime drastically because of that lowsec missions stuff. FIX THAT .)
____________________ Security Status No.#1
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.06.13 15:35:00 -
[312]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 13/06/2010 15:35:39
Quote:
The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are. So what if they only make 13m/hour AFK mining Veldspar in their Hulks? It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested.
The changes are to make mining the best mission to mine and not being half as good as "mining" reprocessed M0.
This does not matter with the actual income the least, if anything a raise in miner ISK/hour is a consequence (and not the real CCP aim) of overall overabundance being somewhat diminished (just somewhat).
Why a 900M worth of ship + implants 16M SP miner should mine *half* as good as a 4 months old guy in a T1 mods, T1 BS worth about 100M? Because that's what I measured when I was doing both of the activities.
Also, you could as well use a mirror on yourself:
- Empire dweller and sturdly anchored there - Shiftless (half of the whines are about having to leave the _1_ mission system) - It's a lazy, easy career path
So, by your own words, "the payment should be proportional to the effort invested".
Basically you should deserve 25M per hour, not 35 50 or whatever.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.06.13 16:27:00 -
[313]
Quote: It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested.
...Is a hisec missionrunner really posting this?
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.06.13 17:31:00 -
[314]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/06/2010 17:31:50
The hi-sec missions frequently going into low-sec issue is being looked into: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1334641&page=1#1
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Finally, we are aware of the problems players are currently facing with level 1-4 mission distribution as a result of the aforementioned load balancing fix. While all missions are intended to have a chance of occurring in a nearby low-/null-security system, we are aware of the disproportionate rate at which this is now occurring. The matter is being examined. This is a separate issue from that noted above, and it has no bearing on the intended low-/null-sec system restriction of level 5 missions.
CCP Molock and GM Nythanos
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.13 18:33:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested.
...Is a hisec missionrunner really posting this?
That is priceless.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |

Crispy Chuck
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Posted - 2010.06.13 19:54:00 -
[316]
I will give my +1 here.
Only good thing to do in high sec now is 24/7 macro mining and market scam, since its not goind to get fixed soon, huh ?
Btw ccp, instead of saying working as intended, start fixing as expected : ] |

knentil
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Posted - 2010.06.14 00:59:00 -
[317]
<Will not Sign!!
I am thankfull for this nerf, as I now have time to complete MORE missions.
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.14 01:56:00 -
[318]
Mybe this is a fix for nija salvagers/looters. CCP is making it so Mission Runers realy just bliz there by not caring about loot and salvage.
Just one way to look on the bright side :) Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |

Amanda Eidolo
Adamantine Resolve
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Posted - 2010.06.14 08:51:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Why a 900M worth of ship + implants 16M SP miner should mine *half* as good as a 4 months old guy in a T1 mods, T1 BS worth about 100M? Because that's what I measured when I was doing both of the activities.
Are you daft? You must be.
- Where do you get this magical 900m figure from? - What kind of proportion of Empire miners do you think actually have bought that stupidly overpriced 700m mining implant? - Who actually needs to sit at the keyboard the entire time they are earning their ISK out of the two characters you've mentioned above? - Who puts in more effort, and work? - Who contributes more overall to the EVE economy?
If you think it's the 'the miner' you are incorrect. Also: Mining in Empire = ***gotry, so deal with it. The only risk comes from suicide crews which is not exactly part of what I think EVE's designers had in mind when they were developing all this **** and doing the balancing on such.
Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where?
Your Score: 
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Also, you could as well use a mirror on yourself:
- Empire dweller and sturdly anchored there - Shiftless (half of the whines are about having to leave the _1_ mission system) - It's a lazy, easy career path
So, by your own words, "the payment should be proportional to the effort invested".
Basically you should deserve 25M per hour, not 35 50 or whatever.
1) When have I, personally, ever said that I am upset about having to jump out-of-mission-system? I actually like it as it breaks the monotony. Don't you put words in my mouth. Don't even think of saying "oh well I was talking about some1 3ls3" because that's not how we do it in English and I know you have a grasp enough of it to realise this.
Your score: 
2) Empire dweller? Yes, as of up until today and not by choice. I was, believe it or not, living in Scalding Pass for a good 4 months and before that living in Derelik lowsec for the 3 months beforehand. We came back to Empire to reform our Corporation and now, well - off to 0.0 again.
Your score: 
2a) Sturdly isn't even a word - but I do know what you mean and yet again you're making assumptions about that which you have no right to; I always have had and always will have an Empire Jump Clone for when I need a break from lowsec/0.0.
Your score: 
3) You are implying that running L4 missions is a lazy, easy career path? Ok, true to a degree. However, that's a problem CCP need to address with Shield tanking and Caldari ships. Want to know what happens if I get lazy and don't pay absolute attention to 90% of L4 missions I run in my Paladin? It either pops or I warp out screaming **** with my ship in flames. Ergo, I pay attention and actually work for my Empire ISK.
Your score: 
Thusly, I have destroyed your paper tiger arguments - care to develop any more for me to shoot down in flames?
Or you want to stop shiptoasting and biomass your character now while you at least have some semblance of dignity remaining?
Epic Failquake with you at the epicentre. -------- ¦ |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.14 09:19:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where?
The miner. Really, if you've sunk multiple billions into your mission-running setup, then the chances of losing it outside of a gank are nil unless you're thoroughly incompetentą but then that's the same kind of risk an incompetent miner would face with the same level of equipment. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Sephar Sephiroth
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Posted - 2010.06.14 09:24:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Amanda Eidolo
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Why a 900M worth of ship + implants 16M SP miner should mine *half* as good as a 4 months old guy in a T1 mods, T1 BS worth about 100M? Because that's what I measured when I was doing both of the activities.
Are you daft? You must be.
- Where do you get this magical 900m figure from? - What kind of proportion of Empire miners do you think actually have bought that stupidly overpriced 700m mining implant? - Who actually needs to sit at the keyboard the entire time they are earning their ISK out of the two characters you've mentioned above? - Who puts in more effort, and work? - Who contributes more overall to the EVE economy?
If you think it's the 'the miner' you are incorrect. Also: Mining in Empire = ***gotry, so deal with it. The only risk comes from suicide crews which is not exactly part of what I think EVE's designers had in mind when they were developing all this **** and doing the balancing on such.
Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where?
Your Score: 
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Also, you could as well use a mirror on yourself:
- Empire dweller and sturdly anchored there - Shiftless (half of the whines are about having to leave the _1_ mission system) - It's a lazy, easy career path
So, by your own words, "the payment should be proportional to the effort invested".
Basically you should deserve 25M per hour, not 35 50 or whatever.
1) When have I, personally, ever said that I am upset about having to jump out-of-mission-system? I actually like it as it breaks the monotony. Don't you put words in my mouth. Don't even think of saying "oh well I was talking about some1 3ls3" because that's not how we do it in English and I know you have a grasp enough of it to realise this.
Your score: 
2) Empire dweller? Yes, as of up until today and not by choice. I was, believe it or not, living in Scalding Pass for a good 4 months and before that living in Derelik lowsec for the 3 months beforehand. We came back to Empire to reform our Corporation and now, well - off to 0.0 again.
Your score: 
2a) Sturdly isn't even a word - but I do know what you mean and yet again you're making assumptions about that which you have no right to; I always have had and always will have an Empire Jump Clone for when I need a break from lowsec/0.0.
Your score: 
3) You are implying that running L4 missions is a lazy, easy career path? Ok, true to a degree. However, that's a problem CCP need to address with Shield tanking and Caldari ships. Want to know what happens if I get lazy and don't pay absolute attention to 90% of L4 missions I run in my Paladin? It either pops or I warp out screaming **** with my ship in flames. Ergo, I pay attention and actually work for my Empire ISK.
Your score: 
Thusly, I have destroyed your paper tiger arguments - care to develop any more for me to shoot down in flames?
Or you want to stop shiptoasting and biomass your character now while you at least have some semblance of dignity remaining?
Epic Failquake with you at the epicentre.
The butt hurt is great in this post.
FATALITY!
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.14 10:15:00 -
[322]
Made 300M in straight ISK, plus a bunch of LP (didn't count exactly how many because I was p. drunk by the end, about 150-180k I think?) running hi-sec missions yesterday.
I dunno, that seems like quite a lot of ISK for perfectly safe hi-sec PvE.
So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty?
PS It turns out that it's OK to reject missions you dont like as long as you dont overdo it.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |

Kenny Dalglish
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Posted - 2010.06.14 10:48:00 -
[323]
Edited by: Kenny Dalglish on 14/06/2010 10:48:24
Originally by: Ildryn http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1334641&page=7&sid=341720268*working as intended*
It's working as intended, so that explains why they are about to change it again.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.14 10:55:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Malcanis So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty?
My HAM Gila has no range problems in AE4; 800mm ACs outrange it by farą
ąso yeah. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |

Sephar Sephiroth
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Posted - 2010.06.14 10:56:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Malcanis Made 300M in straight ISK, plus a bunch of LP (didn't count exactly how many because I was p. drunk by the end, about 150-180k I think?) running hi-sec missions yesterday.
I dunno, that seems like quite a lot of ISK for perfectly safe hi-sec PvE.
So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty?
PS It turns out that it's OK to reject missions you dont like as long as you dont overdo it.
Turns out if you run 33 ish missions at 5500 LP a mission, those figures are about right, but wait 33 missions! REALLY?! Added into this equation is that you never get the best missions back to back so lets assume you got some randoms like Smuggler Interception etc which means you could have done even more missions to make that ... nice figure.
So that means 10M a mission? Also sounds about right ...
Think the whole problem here is that you think that this is wrong? Ill admit im a sub 10M SP character and it takes me nearly an hour to finish AE or even GE for that matter, but I cant dream of getting 300M in a single day, and the higher SP chars out there run with 3 accounts to get those missions done faster. So thats 33x3 times more likely that you might get unlucky and lose a faction fitted T3 or CNR or marauder vs macro mining ...
Gee, reward vs effort vs chance of losing said ships ... yea I think its fine.
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Quagnar
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Posted - 2010.06.14 23:10:00 -
[326]
It has come to my attention from inside sources, that the reason for the nerf on lvl 5 missions was made as to stop the players from paying with isk to play rather than paying cash. When they gave us the option of paying to play with isk, profits fell, because it was easy to earn the isk needed by playing , say for 4 hours rather than 8 for instance. Its all about money folks, now what do you think of it all......
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.06.14 23:19:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Quagnar It has come to my attention from inside sources, that the reason for the nerf on lvl 5 missions was made as to stop the players from paying with isk to play rather than paying cash. When they gave us the option of paying to play with isk, profits fell, because it was easy to earn the isk needed by playing , say for 4 hours rather than 8 for instance. Its all about money folks, now what do you think of it all......
0/10.
PLEXes are bought using real money; it doesn't matter if you guy a plex with isk or pay outright, CCP still gets the cash.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.06.15 00:06:00 -
[328]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2010 00:13:19
Quote:
Are you daft? You must be
Are you rude? You must be. All I see is a failrage with lots of emo (ticons).
Quote:
- Where do you get this magical 900m figure from?
Hulk + T2 fittings + 1 Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade + HX-2 Highwall + Michi's Excavation Augmentor.
Before you spew one of your boutades, it's all stuff suggested in the very mining guide everyone doing it "for real" has followed since years. I even got a decent 40M shield (pew pewed) but when I got back in hi sec it was quite redundant (and suicide gank friendly) to keep it so I sold it.
Quote:
- What kind of proportion of Empire miners do you think actually have bought that stupidly overpriced 700m mining implant?
Why do you care? Anyone cries foul if anyone gets Nomads, Crystals or anything for their improvement? Or are miners supposed to be second rate, the lesser ghetto, "LOL worthless, just take +1 INT implant and DIAF"?
Quote:
- Who puts in more effort, and work?
It's more effort and "work" (in the bad sense) to active mine with split laser cycles than L4 missioning. Otherwise the pay is so abysmal you can as well install a bot and let it go.
Quote:
- Who contributes more overall to the EVE economy?
In a perfect world, miners contribute to the very stuff you have your ass sit upon and flying. Missioneers contribute at... ehm... getting money for killing pointless NPCs? Besides competing with other EvE professions that is.
Quote:
If you think it's the 'the miner' you are incorrect. Also: Mining in Empire = ***gotry, so deal with it. The only risk comes from suicide crews which is not exactly part of what I think EVE's designers had in mind when they were developing all this **** and doing the balancing on such.
I have mined outside of empire for months, guess what it's worthless everywhere. It's just different degrees of worthless, when everything is tanking since months. Highly worthless with low risk, sligthly worthless with higher risk. Totally worse in low sec with the highest risk.
Quote:
Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where?
I have yet to have any of my mission ships to be even locked. On the contrary I have nice records of people *trying* to suicide gank my Hulks, despite staying in deep end of nowhere systems there's always someone who wants to try a defensless kill.
Quote:
When have I, personally, ever said that I am upset about having to jump out-of-mission-system?
You have joined the crying mob. Unless you state your differences (like now), you are part of the mob.
Also, you and your scores, you can put them where the sun does not shine. YOU post the typical oversimplified portrait of a category and then when someone does THE SAME WORDS with you (so same, they are copy-pasted), you start picking it up?
So what, you are not empire dweller? Who gives a toss, you also portray miners as empire dwellers while there's a good number outside of it. I dare say there's TONS of miners risking their neck in WHs nowadays (my next destination, if I don't manage to re-enter my 0.0 corp) than deadspace fit missioneers.
Quote:
So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty?
With 800s it's 10 minutes TOPS the first room (being very pessimistic here), a tiny longer the second. In total (bonus room excluded) like 35-45 mins, this with a Mael, not a Mach (which is well better).
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Voith
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Posted - 2010.06.15 01:20:00 -
[329]
Lets stop dealing with multi-billionaires and officers/deadspace/whatever fittings, and start dealing more with average players: A guy with about 20 million SP in his chosen area, and about a 250-500 Million Isk in assets.
Now in Hi-Sec what do you think the income per hour are for: Ratting: Missions: Exploration: Industry/Production: Mining:
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Astenion
Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation
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Posted - 2010.06.15 01:23:00 -
[330]
I'm all for diversity and such, and I even understand sending lvl 4s into low sec OCCASIONALLY, but at least ensure that when we click DECLINE on a msn sending us into low sec that another msn sending us into low sec doesn't pop up right after the one we just declined. Then we have to wait 4 hours unless we wanna lose standing.
My lvl 4s are for making money, that's all. When I go into low sec, I usually bring a cheaper, smaller ship that I can afford to lose. I can't afford to lose a BS when I'm just starting out on lvl 4s and I'm not going to bring it into low sec for pirates to pick me off like a sniper. It's about the same as driving a Ferrari through a ghetto neighborhood...you're just asking for trouble.
"Disproportionate" isn't the word you're looking for, CCP; "Knocking that **** off" would be a better phrase.
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