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PETITION for MISSION NERFS

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Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:28:00 - [2] Hey, at least they didn't remove bounties & make you loot tags from everything. Now imagine that in lowsec :P As someone without a marauder, all that's changed is I probably won't get a marauder and I'm still considering that. I'm curious as to where the mentioned extra tags went, were they just faction tag drops?
Contralto GCHQ	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:31:00 - [3] Gets my vote!
Clacker McDucky	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:45:00 - [4] If I were a carebare, you'd have my vote, too, but I'm still waiting for them to fix the grid loading issues for PVP. Why can't the buggy issues be fixed before nerfing other stuff?
Noran Ferah Red Sky Morning	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:48:00 - [5] +1 Needs desperate fixing: LAG. Tell me, will 100,000 ******s chipping away at 200K isk a month doing PI help lag? My bet is no.
xChevalierx	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:51:00 - [6] I want them to fix rockets and hybrids first.
Giorgos Rbs	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:55:00 - [7] What makes a game special is the restrictions. So yes please keep the missions hard along with everything else. Ppl who play EVE dont play it cause they want it easy i bet (I left wow cause it was made to be WAY TOO EASY patch after patch) +1 from me
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.05.29 08:21:00 - [8] Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP
Spatiopathe	Posted - 2010.05.29 08:55:00 - [9] stop whining. I love some change: 1/ no more load of crap loot, only few meta :) 2/ not overload same system with rater. 3/ no more Lvl5 agent in LS with heavy earn of LP who give you a mission in HS without risk. I just see few problem: 1/ not overload same system ok, but for LS and 0.0 rater, its a non-sense to do 3 jump in BS for the mission spot. 2/ some mission of courrier sent you in LS with HS agent...its clearly a bug if we read the patch description, or the L5 agent change. 3/ some storyline bugged like search part 2/2, or description bug.. "one unit of", or reward written in eltter or not number: - objective: "one unit of" damsel, ok wich unit ? boob , head or what ? - reward: nineteen thousand of isk, ok man try with number 90.000 isk, better no ?
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:11:00 - [10] Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 09:12:05 " Originally by: Spatiopathe stop whining. 3/ no more Lvl5 agent in LS with heavy earn of LP who give you a mission in HS without risk. quote]" Hold on a sec, you make it sound easy to get into a position to do solo lvl5s, I spent alot of skillin up to get there. The risk/danger comes from the mission itself. Just cause people skill up to get good at mining, does that mean all belts should be put in low-sec? Just cause people skill up to get good at trading, does that mean all market hubs should be put in low-sec? ...this could be said for anything in game! I chose missioning as a career, and CCP nerfed the crap out of it
Jamie Banks Gallente Wasted and Still Mining	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Lone Provider I chose missioning as a career, and CCP nerfed the crap out of it Welcome to Mining. Now you know what it feels like to all of the people who spent a few months on skilling for a hulk, when 2 Month old raven pilots can make more than 3 times as much in the same time as a well skilled hulk pilot. _____________________________ EVE - Everyone vs. Everyone Join in-game Channel 'Aussies' Check my Bio in-game for good deals on Invention Packs
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:32:00 - [12] Originally by: Jamie Banks Originally by: Lone Provider I chose missioning as a career, and CCP nerfed the crap out of it Welcome to Mining. Now you know what it feels like to all of the people who spent a few months on skilling for a hulk, when 2 Month old raven pilots can make more than 3 times as much in the same time as a well skilled hulk pilot. Well thats rubbish, a corp mate of mine does mining and has ISK comin out of his ears
Missm Uppet Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:44:00 - [13] Edited by: Missm Uppet on 29/05/2010 09:46:36 Originally by: Lone Provider Well thats rubbish, a corp mate of mine does mining and has ISK comin out of his ears It's not rubbish at all. High-sec mining has been bringing in around 10mil or so an hour (top skilled hulk pilot) the last few years. That's right around half the same value that many of us were looting from missions (in the form of refined minerals from t0 module drops) per hour until this recent nerf. Why don't you provide some details of comparison before you call someone else's post rubbish?
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:51:00 - [14] Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 09:53:17 Originally by: Missm Uppet Edited by: Missm Uppet on 29/05/2010 09:46:36 Originally by: Lone Provider Well thats rubbish, a corp mate of mine does mining and has ISK comin out of his ears It's not rubbish at all. High-sec mining has been bringing in around 10mil or so an hour (top skilled hulk pilot) the last few years. That's right around half the same value that many of us were looting from missions (in the form of refined minerals from t0 module drops) per hour until this recent nerf. Why don't you provide some details of comparison before you call someone else's post rubbish? Why dont you stick to the petition topic instead of whining bout mining, besides, I think it takes slightly more skills to solo lvl5s no comparison
Missm Uppet Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Lone Provider stick to the petition topic? solo lvl5s? Awww.... You're cute
Oddshrub Minmatar Rummets koldeste kys	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:25:00 - [16] Edited by: Oddshrub on 29/05/2010 10:27:00 You whiners amaze me. I can see why it sucks if you live next to low sec, but aside from that missions were barely nerfed at all. On the other hand, if your mission hub is far from low sec you're getting a lot less ninja looters/salvagers post patch. Not because they couldn't find you fairly easily, but because most ninja salvagers are too lazy to roam more systems than one. And unlike highsec mining it's still an extremely profitable way to play the game in carebare land.
Biggus McChinnus Minmatar The Wild Bunch	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:29:00 - [17] What? But I thought missions got buffed? I ran 20 missions out of my low-sec agent yesterday and they were all given to me in the same system. No more jumping 1-2 jumps for missions. No more dodging gate camps. And all the best-named loot that's dropping? I picked up 4x Catalyzed Cold-Gas MWDs yesterday. It's like the EVE God's heard my prayers. I'm happier than ever before! :)
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:36:00 - [18] Quote: Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP Level 5 agents are in lowsec. Level 5 missions were advertised as lowsec content. If you didn't expect this change to happen at some point then you're dumb. Quote: . Not because they couldn't find you fairly easily, but because most ninja salvagers are too lazy to roam more systems than one. Actually the missions are slightly more predictable than that. My old corpies at Suddenly Ninjas have already begun figuring it out.
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:38:00 - [19] Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 10:39:40 That's a lot of whine over very little.... Loot reduction I've only run a few L4 missions since Tyrannis was deployed, but the reduction seems to be fairly minor. Loot was only about 30% of total mission income for me before, and it looks like MAYBE 1/3rd of that is now gone. L4's were way to profitable before compared to other high-sec game content, and this balances it slightly better. There is also the beneficial effect on the mining profession. It may not compensate for the loss of earnings coming from insurance fraud no longer being profitable, but it'll help some. Mission location I now tend to get missions a bit further away. This impacts high-skilled mission runners much more than low-skilled ones as we use a larger proportion of our time travelling (as we finish missions faster). Note that the increased completion time should also mean slightly higher rewards (money/LP) as the mission reward adjustment kicks in. Now what is a stupid effect of this is that the pool of available agent just became effectively much smaller. The agents near low-sec might just as well have been taken out of the game for all the use they'll see after this. I'm not affected at all, but it is a stupid game design decision. As for the effect on L5's, it just makes L5's into what was INTENDED from the start. They were never intended to be solo-player content, and they were never intended to be run in high-sec as much as they were. To that effect, this was just a bug-fix. Courier revamp A very sensible change. In difficulty, L4 > L3 > L2 > L1 is how it should be. The rewards paid out for the higher levels will be a bit low right now, but that will correct itself over time. Mission rewards are adjusted depending on how fast people complete them, and since they'll now take longer eventually the rewards will go up. --- All in all, the OP is crying a lot over a minor decrease in profitability and some much needed bug-fixes and game rebalancing... Your whine about L5's is effectively this: Wah! I trained a long time to exploit a bug and now CCP fixed it! Waaahhhhh! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Flipout Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:39:00 - [20] what did they change in regards to missions?
Missm Uppet Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.29 10:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Flipout what did they change in regards to missions? The damsel no longer takes her clothes off for you when rescued from kruul.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Lone Provider TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. So no more MMO:s for you ever, then? Quote: This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! If such a small change is all that sits between the game being fun and not being fun, I'm guessing that you're not actually having fun to begin with. In addition, if somehow this reduces the fun you have with running missions (which makes no sense, I suppose ù it would have to be the trading aspect of the game that is fun for you) then maybe you should take the opportunity to try something else? Quote: An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! More things than missions become viable pass-times because said missions no longer encroach on those other activities = expanded. Quote: I think this was completely reckless No, it was very well thought-through and much needed. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:06:00 - [23] Can I suggest you go and support this: finamyc PVE content? While not all the suggestion are perfect they go in a good direction. Let's try to get a better PvE part in this game. if done right it will help PvP too.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 10:39:40 That's a lot of whine over very little.... Loot reduction I've only run a few L4 missions since Tyrannis was deployed, but the reduction seems to be fairly minor. Loot was only about 30% of total mission income for me before, and it looks like MAYBE 1/3rd of that is now gone. L4's were way to profitable before compared to other high-sec game content, and this balances it slightly better. There is also the beneficial effect on the mining profession. It may not compensate for the loss of earnings coming from insurance fraud no longer being profitable, but it'll help some. This is pretty much spot on. High-sec level4 is still the most profitable, and "almost" risk-free method of earning isk. Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 10:39:40 Mission location I now tend to get missions a bit further away. This impacts high-skilled mission runners much more than low-skilled ones as we use a larger proportion of our time travelling (as we finish missions faster). Note that the increased completion time should also mean slightly higher rewards (money/LP) as the mission reward adjustment kicks in. Now what is a stupid effect of this is that the pool of available agent just became effectively much smaller. The agents near low-sec might just as well have been taken out of the game for all the use they'll see after this. I'm not affected at all, but it is a stupid game design decision. Well, there are still plenty of lvl4 agents (some high-quality) that are both not inside a mission hub, and are not next to a low-sec system. So people should really stop whining and log on to eve-agents.com and decided to move onto new agents. And it is not all that bad moving inside a mission hub, being Ninja-salvaged hardly reduces someone's income (thanks to the loot nerf, it becomes pointless to go back looting/salvaging for a lvl4 mission runner), yet being inside a hub bring its own benefits. However, it is an epic fail that CCP intended to let people leave mission hubs with the fix, but ended up driving people into them.
Miner Nicko Caldari House Aratus	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Biggus McChinnus What? But I thought missions got buffed? I ran 20 missions out of my low-sec agent yesterday and they were all given to me in the same system. No more jumping 1-2 jumps for missions. No more dodging gate camps. And all the best-named loot that's dropping? I picked up 4x Catalyzed Cold-Gas MWDs yesterday. It's like the EVE God's heard my prayers. I'm happier than ever before! :) I entirely agree here. Did a couple of L3s earlier, 7.8m from 6 named MWDs in about 2 hours, not including all the rest of loot dropped totally over 70m from those and an hour of L4s. This doesn't even include Bounty or Mission Rewards. The loot, to me, has been much betetr than last weeks and the travelling time isn't that bad, 1 jump average for all my missions really, 1 was 3 jumped away for 8 ships, but otherwise fine.
beautyispain	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed /signed and tired of non-missionrunners trolling about this. Those changes suck beyond belief and are obviously the result of CCP staff's own opinion of missionrunners and highsec carebears.
SirRalph	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:46:00 - [27] L4 MISSIONS WERE NEVER INTENDED AS ENDGAME PLAYSTYLE! It's funny how there is players who have played the game for four years and only just done missions! Missions are planned to help new comers to fatten their wallet, and then move onwards and colonize 0.0! Right now with sov upgrades you make the most ISK by doing anomalies in upgraded system. CA/WH > Belt Ratting > Missions The difference should be even larger.
anduz	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:51:00 - [28] Edited by: anduz on 29/05/2010 11:52:52 A petition for mission nerfs? Face rolling level 4 missions is an extremely easy and safe way to earn a bundle of cash. This is without running multiple accounts or even playing with other people. I mean you can basically sit in your lone one man corporation and just run missions all day long, never interacting with anyone beyond the point where you ruin the mining profession by underbidding everyone with your reprocessed minerals. Post nerfs almost nothing has changed. Mission running is still a much better way to earn high sec money than mining and I bet it still would be, even if they removed all tech0 from missions and banned every macro miner. So sure sign me up lets nerf missions even more!
Tamahra Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Lone Provider Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP this is actually what makes people more than upset and makes them unable to be arsed to login. when they have spent billions and months of training for the rattlesnake, and then POOOOF it suddenly becomes useless.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:31:00 - [30] Edited by: Tippia on 29/05/2010 12:32:37 Originally by: beautyispain Those changes suck beyond belief and are obviously the result of CCP staff's own opinion of missionrunners and highsec carebears. Funnily enough, it was exactly for the benefit of highsec carebears that these changes were implemented, and if this is "beyond belief" as far as suckitude goes, I'd say you have a very limited imagination Originally by: Tamahra this is actually what makes people more than upset and makes them unable to be arsed to login. when they have spent billions and months of training for the rattlesnake, and then POOOOF it suddenly becomes useless. Good thing that the rattlesnake is just as good as ever, then, and that it's now h-h-hawt-looking as well. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Baneken Gallente Aseveljet	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Missm Uppet Originally by: Flipout what did they change in regards to missions? The damsel no longer takes her clothes off for you when rescued from kruul. Damn, no more boobies. :-( http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Dztrgovac	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:45:00 - [32] L4 missions are not a end game playstile nor a goal, they are a reliable way of making ISK to support PVP, buying skillbooks, PLEXes... First, to get to mythical 75 million per hour you need best faction fitted faction ships, top social skill etc, very high SP if you are flying a marauder and so on. A tiny fraction of all high sec mission runners were the "70 million per hour" crowd. "Normal" mission runner that alt tabs or chats during mission is looking at 15-25 million per hour at best. Better then high sec mining and that's about it. High sec L5s were a clear bug and exploit and yes, there was a real conspiracy of silence. 100-200M ISK/hr was good for everyone who knew what they were doing. In the sea of "nerf high sec L4 missions" any high sec L5 mention mention got unnoticed. Industrialists were producing and self destructing thousands upon thousands of BSes for insurance fraud... Literal wars are being fought about 0.0 regions with "good" rats or moons or plexes. And yet, some people live in illusion that if they cry enough CCP will make it so that endless streams of faction fit CNRs and Golems start slowly marching trough low sec gates.
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.29 12:58:00 - [33] Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 12:58:25 Originally by: Tamahra Originally by: Lone Provider Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP this is actually what makes people more than upset and makes them unable to be arsed to login. when they have spent billions and months of training for the rattlesnake, and then POOOOF it suddenly becomes useless. He spent that money and training time to EXPLOIT A BUG! Everyone + their dog knew that L5's were never intended to be run in high-sec, and knew that bug was eventually going to be fixed. L5's were intended to be run in low-sec by a group of players so they could both finish the mission, and also work together to defend themselves if attacked. The OP has nobody but himself to blame. He tried to cheat, and is now upset because he was prevented doing so... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 13:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Dztrgovac First, to get to mythical 75 million per hour you need best faction fitted faction ships, top social skill etc, very high SP if you are flying a marauder and so on. A tiny fraction of all high sec mission runners were the "70 million per hour" crowd. "Normal" mission runner that alt tabs or chats during mission is looking at 15-25 million per hour at best. Better then high sec mining and that's about it. Well that's inflation for you. It used to be that it was the "mythical 50M+" ù or hell, even the "mythical 25M+" back when I started ù and the supposed norm was somewhere in the 10û15M area. Quote: High sec L5s were a clear bug and exploit and yes, there was a real conspiracy of silence. Conspiracy of silence as in "everyone knew how to do it and there were multiple threads both asking and describing how it was done"? Pretty lousy conspiracy, I must say. Quote: And yet, some people live in illusion that if they cry enough CCP will make it so that endless streams of faction fit CNRs and Golems start slowly marching trough low sec gates. Just like some people live in the illusion that CCP will let them earn just as much in the near-complete safety of highsec as they would do in low- and nullsec if they could be bothered to cut out a slice of it to call their own. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Jerreie	Posted - 2010.05.29 13:44:00 - [35] Good day, my name is Jerreie, and I run high sec missions. I also support the nerf.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.29 14:03:00 - [36] Originally by: Dztrgovac L4 missions are not a end game playstile nor a goal, they are a reliable way of making ISK to support PVP, buying skillbooks, PLEXes... First, to get to mythical 75 million per hour you need best faction fitted faction ships, top social skill etc, very high SP if you are flying a marauder and so on. A tiny fraction of all high sec mission runners were the "70 million per hour" crowd. "Normal" mission runner that alt tabs or chats during mission is looking at 15-25 million per hour at best. Better then high sec mining and that's about it. High sec L5s were a clear bug and exploit and yes, there was a real conspiracy of silence. 100-200M ISK/hr was good for everyone who knew what they were doing. In the sea of "nerf high sec L4 missions" any high sec L5 mention mention got unnoticed. Industrialists were producing and self destructing thousands upon thousands of BSes for insurance fraud... Literal wars are being fought about 0.0 regions with "good" rats or moons or plexes. And yet, some people live in illusion that if they cry enough CCP will make it so that endless streams of faction fit CNRs and Golems start slowly marching trough low sec gates. Plex mods are brought by highsec mission runners. They have no inherent isk value of their own. Mission runners act as base of the pyramid, as they basically create isk from thin air. All other professions get bulk of their income by producing goods, then sell goods for the isks created by mission runners at the bottom. When this base shrinks, value of things like plex mods will also drop. It's the food chain, you're at the top, carebears at the bottom, any gimp to carebears is gimp to all, you just haven't felt it yet. Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 12:58:25 Originally by: Tamahra Originally by: Lone Provider Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP this is actually what makes people more than upset and makes them unable to be arsed to login. when they have spent billions and months of training for the rattlesnake, and then POOOOF it suddenly becomes useless. He spent that money and training time to EXPLOIT A BUG! Everyone + their dog knew that L5's were never intended to be run in high-sec, and knew that bug was eventually going to be fixed. L5's were intended to be run in low-sec by a group of players so they could both finish the mission, and also work together to defend themselves if attacked. The OP has nobody but himself to blame. He tried to cheat, and is now upset because he was prevented doing so... No. There are lowsec systems with lvl5 agents with 5 highsec neighbors and one lowsec neighbor. Even before Dominion, it's 5 out of 7 chance of getting a highsec lvl5 mission instead of lowsec. It was simple probability, which is no longer followed now. Not saying that highsec lvl5s should exist, only that they did not exist because of bug, but rather by simple math. They existed before Dominion. This is a real gimp that goes beyond any "bug fix."
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 14:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Goose99 It's the food chain, you're at the top, carebears at the bottom, any gimp to carebears is gimp to all, you just haven't felt it yet. Not really. Any gimp to the ISK faucet is a gimp to all ù the loot change does not change the amount of ISK fed into the system. Yes, if people stop running missions, then it'll be reduced, but if anything, this change only means that more ISK is being produced so the loss of a few shouldn't matter much. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.29 14:46:00 - [38] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Goose99 It's the food chain, you're at the top, carebears at the bottom, any gimp to carebears is gimp to all, you just haven't felt it yet. Not really. Any gimp to the ISK faucet is a gimp to all ù the loot change does not change the amount of ISK fed into the system. Yes, if people stop running missions, then it'll be reduced, but if anything, this change only means that more ISK is being produced so the loss of a few shouldn't matter much. It actually does if you look deeper. The old system had missioner loot reprocessed minerials building ships for insurance fraud, which is a big material sink and isk faucet. Now it's gone, and with some missioners stop for plex farming, the combined net effect will filter up the pyramid.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.29 14:46:00 - [39] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 29/05/2010 14:51:50 Originally by: Goose99 Plex mods are brought by highsec mission runners. They have no inherent isk value of their own. Mission runners act as base of the pyramid, as they basically create isk from thin air. All other professions get bulk of their income by producing goods, then sell goods for the isks created by mission runners at the bottom. When this base shrinks, value of things like plex mods will also drop. It's the food chain, you're at the top, carebears at the bottom, any gimp to carebears is gimp to all, you just haven't felt it yet. Right. This is exactly what missioners do. Missioning is not an end game play style as some suggest. It's a means to fund other activities that are expensive. POS deployment, support, PVP, ships, mods, implants, etc, etc, etc. The only endgame play style that could be called that is mining. Training for mining is diametrically opposed to a PVP playstyle while mission training is complimentary to PVP. This nerf, which many say don't affect them, does affect lesser SP players. The fallacy here is that those missioners who say they aren't affected are those few top earners who have already trained for a year plus of dedicated training to reach the point that they can blitz the missions and make their income from LP store purchases and resells. The other 90% of missioners out there, unfortunately, depended upon loot and salvage for their incomes because some of these l4 missions can take hours. Now that there isn't loot of value in large wrecks noone is going to waste their time only salvaging them. CCP has effectively widened the income gap. Instead of making 20mil isk/hour now, the rest of us will make 5 - 10mil isk/hour. That's a huge hit. And you're really better off mining at this point. Again, in diametric opposition to training for PVP. CCP has effectively increased grinding approximately 40% for the 90% of missioners who can't blitz effectively. If they expect to live the way they're currently accustomed to living in Eve under current prices. If those of you who say you're not affected by this insist on that belief you're deluding yourself. Who do you think are buying those Navy Issue ships? Those faction mods? Those +4 and +5 implants? All that stuff you purchase in the LP store and resell? You? No, you're already got all that stuff. You and those like you are already well entrenched in the game and need all that stuff to a much lesser extent than those of us who have been working to achieve the levels you already have. Ultimately this is going to deflate the markets. But not without a lot of pain. All of us "whiners" crying because we've just had a knife stuck in our backs are only the beginning. I hope you're not heavily invested in expensive commodities like plex. I'm currently waiting for my subscription to expire and it will remain so for at least 6 months. I see no reason to buy what I now consider overly priced plex, ships, etc, etc, etc. It's not because something like plex is truly overly priced. Sure it's expensive as hell and always will be. Compared to what it's going to be worth in 6 months, yeah, its overpriced like a mofo.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.29 15:05:00 - [40] Originally by: Biggus McChinnus What? But I thought missions got buffed? I ran 20 missions out of my low-sec agent yesterday and they were all given to me in the same system. No more jumping 1-2 jumps for missions. No more dodging gate camps. And all the best-named loot that's dropping? I picked up 4x Catalyzed Cold-Gas MWDs yesterday. It's like the EVE God's heard my prayers. I'm happier than ever before! :) Yup...and the price for those modules in the last few days has fallen through the floor. Was more than 5 million on Wednesday...now they are about 2 million. -- "If itÆs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IÆd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.29 16:33:00 - [41] Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 16:35:26 Originally by: Mr Kidd CCP has effectively increased grinding approximately 40% for the 90% of missioners who can't blitz effectively. How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 28% Rewards: 8% LP: 30% Salvage: 12% Loot: 21% That the total value AVAILABLE for a mission pre-Tyrannis, i.e. kill/loot/salvage everything. If you spend your LP foolishly, you'll get less on that account, or if you haven't trained the LP skills (also foolishly) you get less. The loot is counted on mineral value, not item value, even tags and meta items. Even if CCP had removed ALL loot, you'd be a maximum of 21% down. They only seem to have removed about 1/3rd (I haven't got good numbers on this though), and if that is right, then the maximum you CAN be down is 7%! Even you you get absolutely nothing for your LP, loot would still only be around 30%, meaning the cut would be around 10%... Posting numbers taken out of your behind is not a good argument! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.29 16:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: Biggus McChinnus What? But I thought missions got buffed? I ran 20 missions out of my low-sec agent yesterday and they were all given to me in the same system. No more jumping 1-2 jumps for missions. No more dodging gate camps. And all the best-named loot that's dropping? I picked up 4x Catalyzed Cold-Gas MWDs yesterday. It's like the EVE God's heard my prayers. I'm happier than ever before! :) Yup...and the price for those modules in the last few days has fallen through the floor. Was more than 5 million on Wednesday...now they are about 2 million. My apologies...i was reffering to Yt-8 MWD. Got them confused somehow. -- "If itÆs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IÆd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin
Dungheap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.05.29 17:04:00 - [43] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 16:35:26 Originally by: Mr Kidd CCP has effectively increased grinding approximately 40% for the 90% of missioners who can't blitz effectively. How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 28% Rewards: 8% LP: 30% Salvage: 12% Loot: 21% That the total value AVAILABLE for a mission pre-Tyrannis, i.e. kill/loot/salvage everything. If you spend your LP foolishly, you'll get less on that account, or if you haven't trained the LP skills (also foolishly) you get less. The loot is counted on mineral value, not item value, even tags and meta items. Even if CCP had removed ALL loot, you'd be a maximum of 21% down. They only seem to have removed about 1/3rd (I haven't got good numbers on this though), and if that is right, then the maximum you CAN be down is 7%! Even you you get absolutely nothing for your LP, loot would still only be around 30%, meaning the cut would be around 10%... Posting numbers taken out of your behind is not a good argument! what's your source for those % ?
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.29 17:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 16:35:26 Originally by: Mr Kidd CCP has effectively increased grinding approximately 40% for the 90% of missioners who can't blitz effectively. How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 28% Rewards: 8% LP: 30% Salvage: 12% Loot: 21% That the total value AVAILABLE for a mission pre-Tyrannis, i.e. kill/loot/salvage everything. If you spend your LP foolishly, you'll get less on that account, or if you haven't trained the LP skills (also foolishly) you get less. The loot is counted on mineral value, not item value, even tags and meta items. Even if CCP had removed ALL loot, you'd be a maximum of 21% down. They only seem to have removed about 1/3rd (I haven't got good numbers on this though), and if that is right, then the maximum you CAN be down is 7%! Even you you get absolutely nothing for your LP, loot would still only be around 30%, meaning the cut would be around 10%... Posting numbers taken out of your behind is not a good argument! This is false. The values vary greatly according to how long it takes for someone to do a mission. LP values vary according to agent quality and system sec. Loot & salvage vary greatly according to mission faction. Rats in missions from Cadari agents range from Angels/Guristas/Sansha/Bloods/Merceneries, depending on what part of space the agent is bordering and specific corp within Cadari. Mercs, for example, will give far greater than 21% in loot, at least pre-Tyrannis, Guristas can be less. Bloods/Sansha/Angels, far more than just 12% in salvage, Guristas/Mercs, less. Even with perfect skills and fully pimped gank fit, working for high quality 0.5sec agent, the distribution you cited greatly underestimates percentage total of loot/salvage, for all pirate factions except Guristas.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 17:11:00 - [45] Edited by: Tippia on 29/05/2010 17:12:37 Originally by: Dungheap what's your source for those % ? He (and others) have collected them over a long period of time. Dig a couple of pages down through this subforum or go to eve-search to have a look at the various L4 statistics threads. Originally by: Goose99 This is false. Prove it. He has actual data on his side; you have nothing. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
nugget906	Posted - 2010.05.29 17:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 16:35:26 Originally by: Mr Kidd CCP has effectively increased grinding approximately 40% for the 90% of missioners who can't blitz effectively. How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 28% Rewards: 8% LP: 30% Salvage: 12% Loot: 21% That the total value AVAILABLE for a mission pre-Tyrannis, i.e. kill/loot/salvage everything. If you spend your LP foolishly, you'll get less on that account, or if you haven't trained the LP skills (also foolishly) you get less. The loot is counted on mineral value, not item value, even tags and meta items. Even if CCP had removed ALL loot, you'd be a maximum of 21% down. They only seem to have removed about 1/3rd (I haven't got good numbers on this though), and if that is right, then the maximum you CAN be down is 7%! Even you you get absolutely nothing for your LP, loot would still only be around 30%, meaning the cut would be around 10%... Posting numbers taken out of your behind is not a good argument! This is false. The values vary greatly according to how long it takes for someone to do a mission. LP values vary according to agent quality and system sec. Loot & salvage vary greatly according to mission faction. Rats in missions from Cadari agents range from Angels/Guristas/Sansha/Bloods/Merceneries, depending on what part of space the agent is bordering and specific corp within Cadari. Mercs, for example, will give far greater than 21% in loot, at least pre-Tyrannis, Guristas can be less. Bloods/Sansha/Angels, far more than just 12% in salvage, Guristas/Mercs, less. Even with perfect skills and fully pimped gank fit, working for high quality 0.5sec agent, the distribution you cited greatly underestimates percentage total of loot/salvage, for all pirate factions except Guristas. Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 29/05/2010 17:12:37 Originally by: Dungheap what's your source for those % ? He (and others) have collected them over a long period of time. Dig a couple of pages down through this subforum or go to eve-search to have a look at the various L4 statistics threads. Originally by: Goose99 This is false. Prove it. He has actual data on his side; you have nothing. Those percentages aren't even close unless it's Gruistas with their horrible loot and salvage. Even then it's stretching it. Anyone who's ever ran lvl4 missions can tell right away.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 17:19:00 - [47] Originally by: nugget906 Those percentages aren't even close unless it's Gruistas with their horrible loot and salvage. Even then it's stretching it. Anyone who's ever ran lvl4 missions can tell right away. You have actual data to support this, I take it? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.29 18:04:00 - [48] Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 18:06:03 Originally by: Dungheap Originally by: Kerfira My post #41... what's your source for those % ? Statistics taken over 142 missions (adjusted for price level)... No cherry-picking, even taking the worst paying missions that most people reject... Originally by: Goose99 The values vary greatly according to how long it takes for someone to do a mission. No they don't... NPC's or loot doesn't appear or disappear if you take longer/shorter to do the mission... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:10:00 - [49] Moved missions to less populated systems. - Fixed Moved level 5 to low sec where they were supposed to be in the first place. - Fixed Balanced the mining profession by nerfing bs meta 0 drops. - Nerf but also a buff to another profession....so Fixed I dont see a problem...so not only do i not sign your stupid petition. I call for a petition to stop whiny *****es from posting :)
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Kerfira He spent that money and training time to EXPLOIT A BUG! Everyone + their dog knew that L5's were never intended to be run in high-sec, and knew that bug was eventually going to be fixed. Yes they were. Perhaps not specifically, but they still have a chance to give missions in high-sec. Quote: L5's were intended to be run in low-sec by a group of players so they could both finish the mission, and also work together to defend themselves if attacked. No they weren't. They were meant to be more challenging but not to be run any specific way or in a specific place. Quote: The OP has nobody but himself to blame. He tried to cheat, and is now upset because he was prevented doing so... You have a lot of nerve, you know that? Accusing players of cheating just by using the game mechanics that are available to them... hey I think you running level 4s in pimped marauders with dual accounts for 70m/h is cheating. Can't wait til they fix that bug. But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
JJ Redic	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:38:00 - [51] Edited by: JJ Redic on 29/05/2010 19:38:45 I can haz nurf? HTFU.
Antarea Starfallis Caldari Farsight Systems Omega Vector	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:43:00 - [52] I just want them to swap the metal scraps out for something that actually matters. Its obviously a placeholder for something to come. Tags were what I thought I saw they were going to put in there, but I'd rather they be something a little more "lotto" feeling. You know how it feels to loot something awesome and if every wreck gives you that possibility, looting becomes more fun. PI is going to change the face of mining in eve. Its like a perminant belt that you are getting materials from. Until that gets up and running for a majority of miners, we won't know how the market will stablize. Personally, running missions through and then coming back through with a loot ship isn't all that much fun. I like combat. Collecting is just nice if there are good rewards. Until they work through this, just do what you can. Skill towards mission blitzing. Adapt. Life goes on.
FU10011101	Posted - 2010.05.29 19:48:00 - [53] Those percentages aren't even close unless it's Gruistas with their horrible loot and salvage. Even then it's stretching it. Anyone who's ever ran lvl4 missions can tell right away. YOUR DATA MOTHER****A! SHOW IT TO MEH!
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Kerfira L5's were intended to be run in low-sec by a group of players so they could both finish the mission, and also work together to defend themselves if attacked. No they weren't. They were meant to be more challenging but not to be run any specific way or in a specific place. If you look at what CCP said at the time, there was a reason the agents were in low-sec.... These missions were INTENDED (look on the forum/blogs when they were introduced) to be low-sec, and to be run by groups who could both do the missions as well as defend against attackers. Your revisionist history doesn't change that! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:32:00 - [55] Originally by: Lone Provider I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP Well if you had researched a bit more you would have noticed that ccp never intended lvl 5's to be in hi-sec, just they hadn't got around to fixing it for a long time. Actually I think the hi-sec lvl 5's were more difficult than low-sec lvl 5's in the mission runing aspect. Lets face it for many a lvl 5, accept a lvl 5, warp your carrier into it is not exactly hard. But in hi-sec you just dont have the carrier option. Lvl 5's were intended to be difficult, and I feel the way to do this would to be introduce warp gates to all lvl 5's and stop this 'easy way' of carriers. Lvl 5's were never really intended for capital ships so lets keep the caps out of them. At least the hi-sec lvl 5's never had cap ships, which is what made them much more challenge in the mission running aspect.
Afrodite Draconis	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:41:00 - [56] Edited by: Afrodite Draconis on 29/05/2010 20:40:58 10 M/hour is suitable income for high sec pilot doing lvl4 missions, it's the same than mining. EDIT: So CCP still has lot's of nerfs to do!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:47:00 - [57] Originally by: Kerfira Your whine about L5's is effectively this: Wah! I trained a long time to exploit a bug and now CCP fixed it! Waaahhhhh!
Zuretul Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 29/05/2010 18:08:30 Originally by: Dungheap Originally by: Kerfira My post #41... what's your source for those % ? Statistics taken over 142 missions (adjusted for price level)... No cherry-picking, even taking the worst paying missions that most people reject... Originally by: Goose99 The values vary greatly according to how long it takes for someone to do a mission. No they don't... NPC's or loot doesn't appear or disappear if you take longer/shorter to do the mission... The total value you can get from a mission is a constant not dependent on how long it takes you to complete it (unless you can't complete it in time for the bonus, in which case you fail at missioning)... And 30% of your income is your imaginary LP income done by imaginary elfs.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:55:00 - [59] Originally by: Zuretul And 30% of your income is your imaginary LP income done by imaginary elfs. What? You don't get LP for your missions? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zuretul Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:58:00 - [60] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Zuretul And 30% of your income is your imaginary LP income done by imaginary elfs. What? You don't get LP for your missions? He just pulled off the LP income from his tiny little head and then started the crusade in the forums.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Zuretul He just pulled off the LP income from his tiny little head and then started the crusade in the forums. You have proof of this, I take it? Especially since what he quotes isn't out of the ordinary or particularly spectacular. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zuretul Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:07:00 - [62] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Zuretul He just pulled off the LP income from his tiny little head and then started the crusade in the forums. You have proof of this, I take it? Especially since what he quotes isn't out of the ordinary or particularly spectacular. Go his original tread, pull of his 'stats' to excel and see how there isn't anything to back up his imaginary LP income.
Newsflash Gallente NorthUnited	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:08:00 - [63] signed
MrRobot Amarr Universal Robotics Company	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:13:00 - [64] I have done a few highsec lvl 5 missions myself. And I freely admit that they were way to lucrative. On the other side I knew that it will end some day and took the chance while it lasted However I feel that CCP will hit by subscribers exiting the game with this expansion. This is opposed to the boost in subscriber numbers which normally come along with a new expansion. And in the end this can't be good for anyone playing this game, carebear or not...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:15:00 - [65] Originally by: Zuretul Go his original tread, pull of his 'stats' to excel and see how there isn't anything to back up his imaginary LP income. You mean apart from how it matches what you get from running those missions? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ogwyn	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:26:00 - [66] Originally by: Missm Uppet Originally by: Flipout what did they change in regards to missions? The damsel no longer takes her clothes off for you when rescued from kruul. I¦ve rescued the damsel 4 times and have come to this conclusion: If the slapper wants to be a stripper, then let her be a stripper. I for one, will no longer be attempting the rescue of said fallen Jezabelle.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Kerfira L5's were intended to be run in low-sec by a group of players so they could both finish the mission, and also work together to defend themselves if attacked. No they weren't. They were meant to be more challenging but not to be run any specific way or in a specific place. If you look at what CCP said at the time, there was a reason the agents were in low-sec.... These missions were INTENDED (look on the forum/blogs when they were introduced) to be low-sec, and to be run by groups who could both do the missions as well as defend against attackers. Your revisionist history doesn't change that! If their intentions were for level 5s to be exclusively low-sec then they would have coded them that way. Not some of the time, not most of the time, but all of the time. If they were intended to be run in groups fit to defend against PvP attacks they wouldn't be soloable in nighthawks and dual boxed by any other number of ship combinations (that may have been their vision, but I think they knew it wasn't going to work out that way). But for the record, I only changed my sig because I was annoying myself with the last one.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:35:00 - [68] Pathetic. I would like any, all, whomever mission runner to explain to me.. where the 'fun' was lost in this expansion? Missions weren't really changed. They still do the same old crap. So.. I'm confused, where exactly did the fun go? Oh.. you mean the part about MAYBE having to risk your precious ships in lowsec? Damn.. that's something. Thing about MMOs.. people that solo, tend to last a year tops alone before quiting. And they don't really aquire or get very much, especially compared to those that work in groups. God forbid instead of whining to CCP to fix your OWN problem.. you guys could work together and clear out a lowsec spot then run missions together through it.. oh, and at increased LP gains too. Oh.. and you might actually like a human challange instead of predictable binary. And you might like the adrenline rush with the dash of lose.. its called entertainment, Fun. Cause its sooooooo much better to make a ton of isk to spend on the best pieces of gear to do the same old crap you could before, only slightly faster, yay! AWESOME. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
DeMont Cruiser	Posted - 2010.05.29 21:58:00 - [69] Bump Pirates, lol. You don't dare go into FW systems or into 0.0 Alliance controlled systems because you all know you'll get your arse handed to you in metal scraps. Funny how this game is being advertised as being a multi style played game, supposed to be able to choose if you want to do PvE, or PvP, or a combo of both. Not be forced to play a certain way. CCP had better watch out, some 'Eye of the Tiger' Lawyer and client could end up owning stock in this company, or just plain outright own the company.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.30 00:24:00 - [70] CCP is not forcing anyone to play a certain way. They are simply making the more profitable way have more risk. Risk vs reward. HTFU!
Asuri Kinnes Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.05.30 02:12:00 - [71] Supported. Won't happen, but by supporting this thread, maybe I can pvp some people from work. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.30 03:34:00 - [72] Originally by: Kerfira How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 28% Rewards: 8% LP: 30% Salvage: 12% Loot: 21% I'm not going to argue the percentages. Admittedly mine are guestimated. But according to yours it's 33%. 33% or 40%, one third or about one third. Really, in any study it's significant, is it not? On the other hand, having not seen these statics you present, are we talking looting salvaging everything or only the large wrecks? There is a time component here to consider. Being a ninja looter I can tell you with 100% certainty that looting and salvaging everything you've gone beyond the diminishing returns in earning potential. You're spending more time for less earnings essentially. I refined my lootings/salvaging over months and at each refinement up to the point I looted and salvaged large wrecks and then only specific loot I noticed that my income increased for a given amount of time. So therefore, my guestimated loss of income may well legitimately be higher than yours, then again it may not. But anyway you look at it you've lost a significant amount of income. If you require a scientific analysis from me, you won't get. I can't replicate it under current game conditions.
Othnark Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.30 04:17:00 - [73] Please adapt, there are still may lucrative opportunities for mission runners...
Zuretul Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:12:00 - [74] How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 42% Rewards: 2% LP: 13% Salvage: 12% Loot: 31%
Titas Agor TITANS OF PEACE	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:19:00 - [75] /signed i could go into a big ass discussion, but it would only fuel the pvp orientated players to take this petition off topic. This is a totally un-acceptible change and would have done a hell of a lot more about it after testing the PI stuff on the test server if i had known about it as well as the mess they've added with the contacts. Several accounts hanging on a thin thread for me right now sure as hell ruined a lot of fun for me personally.
Aviator Girl	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:36:00 - [76] As a mission runner i can honestly say this change has done nothing to stop me running lvl 4's and barely affects my overall income. I will continue to safely earn isk for my next faction BS thank you very much.
Bob McVities Caldari Defiant Delerium	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:42:00 - [77] /signed
Lorina Valkrym	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:44:00 - [78] pretty ticked off... /Signed
Commander Deb Caldari Girls With Gunz	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:47:00 - [79] Doesn't affect me all that much personally, but its crap to a lot of players imo /signed
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.30 08:56:00 - [80] Originally by: Mr Kidd Originally by: Kerfira How on earth do you get to that figure??? The income of a mission runner in Caldari space distributes something like this (not counting implants from storyline missions): Bounties: 28% Rewards: 8% LP: 30% Salvage: 12% Loot: 21% I'm not going to argue the percentages. Admittedly mine are guestimated. But according to yours it's 33%. 33% or 40%, one third or about one third. Really, in any study it's significant, is it not? How do you now get to 33% from my numbers? The SALVAGE is not touched in this expansion at all! Those 12% would stay the same. The loot seems (I've only run 5 missions since Wednesday) to have been reduced by about 1/3rd at the most. A third of 21% is 7%. Even if you didn't earn a single ISK from LP, loot would still only be around 1.5 times what it is above, or ~30%. In that case, then the 1/3rd reduction would still only be about a 10% reduction of the total! It simply CAN'T be more than a maximum of 10% of the total, even if you give all your LP away! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:53:00 - [81] I looked at post 48 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1272040&page=2#48 not much there to read and I'm not going to read that entire thread. How I get 33% is taking the 21% in loot and the 12% in salvage. See, the medium and small wrecks were pointless to loot salvage to begin with when compared to large wrecks from a ninja looting/salvaging point of view. And thats true for l4 missioners who can do missions in a relatively acceptable time frame but not quite able to blitz. And now since large wreck loot is nerfed neither is large salvage worth making a second trip for. As a mission running you'll make better earnings now if you just continue on to the next mission. That is unless it's taking you several hours to complete the missions. In that case then looting and salvaging everything will give you your highest mission earnings. You missioners only lost 33 - 40% of your income, I on the other hand lost 80% of my income since all I looted and salvaged were the large wrecks.
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:03:00 - [82] Edited by: Kerfira on 30/05/2010 12:04:33 Originally by: Mr Kidd Weirdness.... Your kind of math puzzles me.... and would puzzle anyone with even limited knowledge of real math... You're blaming CCP for you being in a hussy fit and 'punishing' CCP by not taking the goodly amounts of salvage and loot still there... For the same amount of work you get around 1/3rd less loot, and the same amount of salvage... For your information, that is not 80% (I would suggest you stop talking math until you get to 8th grade at least)... If you take several hours doing L4 missions (with the possible exception of the extravaganzas), you shouldn't be doing them! You'll earn more doing L3's.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.30 12:52:00 - [83] Originally by: Kerfira Your kind of math puzzles me.... and would puzzle anyone with even limited knowledge of real math... [à] For the same amount of work you get around 1/3rd less loot, and the same amount of salvage... For your information, that is not 80% (I would suggest you stop talking math until you get to 8th grade at least) What's puzzling you is the missing tidbit that he doesn't actually get any bounties, LP, or mission rewards, since he's a ninja-looter/salvager. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Troll o'Ninetails	Posted - 2010.05.30 13:45:00 - [84] Problem easly solved. Just do what I did. Stop running missions I have 1 char on kronos, one on paladin and one on golem. It may feel like a complete waste to me right now to have said maruders skilled now that maruders are the ship affected mostly by this change. But however you can simply quit running missions. Transfering my chars onto two accounts and cancelling the others, missions was good while it lasted. Now its time to live off the reserves buildt up while running missions. X ♥ VOTE TROLL ♥
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.30 15:58:00 - [85] Edited by: Kerfira on 30/05/2010 15:58:37 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kerfira Your kind of math puzzles me.... and would puzzle anyone with even limited knowledge of real math... [à] For the same amount of work you get around 1/3rd less loot, and the same amount of salvage... For your information, that is not 80% (I would suggest you stop talking math until you get to 8th grade at least) What's puzzling you is the missing tidbit that he doesn't actually get any bounties, LP, or mission rewards, since he's a ninja-looter/salvager. Then he's changed his argument completely around since this is the original argument of his I responded to! Originally by: Mr Kidd CCP has effectively increased grinding approximately 40% for the 90% of missioners who can't blitz effectively. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Auto Trader	Posted - 2010.05.30 16:20:00 - [86] Edited by: Auto Trader on 30/05/2010 16:21:07 If some people wishes to play all alone than thats their business , for pvper who want to play gang bang then thats their business too . Everyone was resonably happy before this expansion , might need a little tweak here and there but all was all happy-dory. As for me, My name says it all, makes no different to me, still vote for keeping the way some of the eve experient as they were . . . Dont get me wrong Im all for future advancement for better world for us all
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.30 17:22:00 - [87] Not signed. I am still inventing my marauder (one day I'll get lucky!) and then flying it. Caught by all the drama I wanted to see with my eyes and tried some missions and exactly at the same 0.5 sec hi Q agent with 150 in local and I have yet to be sent to low sec. Yesterday, after 6 months, I bothered getting out with the Hulk to see how it feels mining with a maxed miner in maxed Hulk with max skills and finally stop mining 50% worse than my missioneer chars did. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.30 17:33:00 - [88] Edited by: Goose99 on 30/05/2010 17:34:10 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Not signed. I am still inventing my marauder (one day I'll get lucky!) and then flying it. Caught by all the drama I wanted to see with my eyes and tried some missions and exactly at the same 0.5 sec hi Q agent with 150 in local and I have yet to be sent to low sec. Yesterday, after 6 months, I bothered getting out with the Hulk to see how it feels mining with a maxed miner in maxed Hulk with max skills and finally stop mining 50% worse than my missioneer chars did. There are 0.5 systems like Scheenins with high quality agents that are not direct neighbors to lowsec. Those tend to be for non-mainstream npc corps at out-of-the-way places.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.30 18:39:00 - [89] Originally by: Goose99 There are 0.5 systems like Scheenins with high quality agents that are not direct neighbors to lowsec. Those tend to be for non-mainstream npc corps at out-of-the-way places. àor with the best-quality agent in highsec, employing for one of the more popular NPC corps very close to Jita and the Jita-Amarr pipeline. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.30 19:06:00 - [90] Originally by: beautyispain /signed and tired of non-missionrunners trolling about this. Those changes suck beyond belief and are obviously the result of CCP staff's own opinion of missionrunners and highsec carebears. Says the alt who has no mission experience. Stfu troll
JoeBirras	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:28:00 - [91] "An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!" I agree /signed
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.30 20:53:00 - [92] Originally by: JoeBirras "An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!" I agree /signed It WAS expanded... You get to see more of EVE as you have to travel further for missions... You get to experience fighting in low-sec if you do L5's... You get to manufacture if you want 425mm Railgun I's without paying ISK for them... You get to fly bigger ships if you do L4 transport missions... So I assume you're happy now Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:15:00 - [93] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JoeBirras "An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!" I agree /signed It WAS expanded... You get to see more of EVE as you have to travel further for missions... You get to experience fighting in low-sec if you do L5's... You get to manufacture if you want 425mm Railgun I's without paying ISK for them... You get to fly bigger ships if you do L4 transport missions... So I assume you're happy now You forgot "you get to experience gatecamp popping your 2 bil pimped faction boat." That's also new development.
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:21:00 - [94] Originally by: Goose99 You forgot "you get to experience gatecamp popping your 2 bil pimped faction boat." That's also new development. Nothing wrong with that either The EVE economy would implode if things didn't get kaboom'ed.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Areon Lohr	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:22:00 - [95] I was very happy the way things were. /signed
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:25:00 - [96] Dont use a machine gun when a club will do just fine. Your choice to use a 2 bill isk ship. I recall a raven with t2 fit being under 150million.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:34:00 - [97] Originally by: Ildryn Dont use a machine gun when a club will do just fine. Your choice to use a 2 bill isk ship. I recall a raven with t2 fit being under 150million. 150 mil for a t2 fit raven? Good god, who ripped you off? Should be more like 100 mil. In any case, a t2 Raven can't grind missions nearly as fast as a pimpboat. You get more isk per hour moving to deep highsec hubs. Border lowsec from highsec agents pay crappy LP, at high risk, and need to be done slower in a cheapboat. People either move to deep highsec for fast blitzing missions or deep lowsec for better rewards. You'd have to be an idiot to run lowsec missions from highsec border agents for all of the gatecamp and none of the benefits.
Da Lun	Posted - 2010.05.30 21:58:00 - [98] Lone Provider to true the nerf to missions is rubbish now all I'm getting is Low-Sec missions risking a ship worth 50 times the misssion Rewards and no extra LP for the risk either !! If they wanted to help change the Rewards and and LP to reflect the fact it's going into Low-Sec. I've not noticed much of a change to loot at all just the scrap metal has increased thats about all.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:02:00 - [99] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Ildryn Dont use a machine gun when a club will do just fine. Your choice to use a 2 bill isk ship. I recall a raven with t2 fit being under 150million. 150 mil for a t2 fit raven? Good god, who ripped you off? Should be more like 100 mil. In any case, a t2 Raven can't grind missions nearly as fast as a pimpboat. You get more isk per hour moving to deep highsec hubs. Border lowsec from highsec agents pay crappy LP, at high risk, and need to be done slower in a cheapboat. People either move to deep highsec for fast blitzing missions or deep lowsec for better rewards. You'd have to be an idiot to run lowsec missions from highsec border agents for all of the gatecamp and none of the benefits. I used to run missions in a t2 fit raven worth close to 150mill. You are not old enough to remember those times. Like i was not around when they costs lots more. Noob Alts They don't know ****
nugget906	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:08:00 - [100] Edited by: nugget906 on 30/05/2010 22:08:43 Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Ildryn Dont use a machine gun when a club will do just fine. Your choice to use a 2 bill isk ship. I recall a raven with t2 fit being under 150million. 150 mil for a t2 fit raven? Good god, who ripped you off? Should be more like 100 mil. In any case, a t2 Raven can't grind missions nearly as fast as a pimpboat. You get more isk per hour moving to deep highsec hubs. Border lowsec from highsec agents pay crappy LP, at high risk, and need to be done slower in a cheapboat. People either move to deep highsec for fast blitzing missions or deep lowsec for better rewards. You'd have to be an idiot to run lowsec missions from highsec border agents for all of the gatecamp and none of the benefits. I used to run missions in a t2 fit raven worth close to 150mill. You are not old enough to remember those times. Like i was not around when they costs lots more. Noob Alts They don't know **** Lol fail troll. Mission runners assemble a raven for the Tyrannis patch for lowsec missions according to old prices? It's a matter of you not knowing current prices, not others not knowing past prices.
chavala Gallente X 819	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:13:00 - [101] /signed [url=http://kb.un-natural.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=46891] [/url]
Ledo4ka Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:14:00 - [102] /signed --------------------------- English is no my native language, sorry for grammatical errors (if exists).
bashkade	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:23:00 - [103] /signed
SamuelCZ90	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:27:00 - [104] A agreed. /signed
JimboDeath	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:39:00 - [105] Let me make this perfectly clear and short. My time playing eve has gone from fun to f#@$ this. Fun was, logging on, fly a L5 mission near home base, sayin hi to my friends, and getting the f*&# out. Now my game has turned from an arcade-styled evening into some perverted CCP form of cycling agents until my L5 carebear needs are fulfilled. I dont care what others do in this game, Im not one to get all ultra involved in wtf's plans, plots, or deceptions. If this was ultimately what you crazy a$$ed developers wanted...I have just one more follow-up question for you: Did you just want to run my missions for me too, while I still pay for my account? Sincerely, Ihavepurchasedmylast30-dayPLEX
ing SpeedyJ Gallente Broken Lightning	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:51:00 - [106] /signed
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.30 22:55:00 - [107] Originally by: nugget906 Lol fail troll. Mission runners assemble a raven for the Tyrannis patch for lowsec missions according to old prices? It's a matter of you not knowing current prices, not others not knowing past prices. You should stop trolling. I don't buy ravens anymore. I use more expensive things. You are three and a half months old. STFU and play the game a couple years. Get your standings high enough to have a opinion. Currently you cannot even accept a level 2 mission for anyone.
nugget906	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:18:00 - [108] Originally by: Ildryn Edited by: Ildryn on 30/05/2010 22:57:28 Originally by: nugget906 Lol fail troll. Mission runners assemble a raven for the Tyrannis patch for lowsec missions according to old prices? It's a matter of you not knowing current prices, not others not knowing past prices. I did say under 150mill as well. Thats 1 mill, 5 mill, and 149mill. ****ing moron. You should stop trolling. I don't buy ravens anymore. I use more expensive things. You are three and a half months old. STFU and play the game a couple years. Get your standings high enough to have a opinion. Currently you cannot even accept a level 2 mission for anyone. It's an alt. And no, you can't know my main. Flamed too much nullsec politics, I'd get kicked out if they were to know.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:26:00 - [109] Then don't post. You can't prove your in-game experience so you should post in the general chat or out of game discussion area. Not my fault you start problems with your alliance. ...kinda like here.
Faldar Grunnan	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:27:00 - [110] /signed First off, I am a full on Industrialist(soloist Carebear, 3+ old character). To do this effectively I need massive amounts of iskies for the BPO's. I run MANY lvl 4 missions per day to pay for such (including lvl 4 delivery missions to prevent the madness of the grind and when I get stuck by a 4 hr timers). I sell BPC's; manufacture many mods including invention of T2 mods, ect., ect. Including mining to mix things up a bit. It's a lot of gameplay. I feed the market significantly! The loot change (it wasn't much of a nerf, just yet at least, wait till T4 items hit 100k each, then it's a nerf) is flat out going to crash the following systems. Invention, T2, ship manufacturing, ect. The less minerals in the game will drive up prices significanty. The 0.0 and low sec'rs arguement for the nerf was not thought out much obviously. I've been there and made MUCH more in 0.0 then I could ever with lvl4's alone (200-300mil+ a day). The only reason why I left 0.0 were the RESTRICTIONS put on our alliance for living there by the lead Alliance who "owned the space". PS I supported my corp mates considerably with their PvP endevours, and they in-turn protected me when possible. The risk even when corp mates were not around was minimal, just keep "Local" up on your screen and rat EFFECTIVELY, FFS. The increase in Meta 4's will now make T2 & invention virtually obsolete, so I figure CCP will nerf that next. What I have found, is that, post small & medium rigs and now Tyrannis, I can make more by grinding lvl4's WITHOUT looting or salvaging. I calculated about 25%(don't ask for a speadsheet, I used napkins and a rather small sample of 4 missions. Remember, I'm a soloist, salvaging at lvl 5). Salvage is basicaly worthless if it takes me a minute to salvage a BS sometimes. I wont do lvl5's because my billion+ iskie mission running ship refuses to fly in groups or low sec. These are group deals anyway. If anything, they needed to create higher lvl missions & bump up lvl5's to 6, or whatever. High Sec mining has NO risk, at least lvl4's had some, and when you first start them, they are quite difficult. There are too many miners anyway, half of them are iskie selling botters, why make it more profitable for them. My Tyrannis suggestions will probably be scoffed at by most, but... 1) Bring back lvl4's loot. Miners got Orca's recently and shouldn't be complaining at all, and low & null have Rocq's. 2) Increase low sec & 0.0 BS rats (at least 1 rat per belt). This should keep PvP'rs quiet and happy. 3) On the lvl4 delivery missions, make rewards on a per jump basis. 500k per jump. If it takes you to low sec, make the reward a flat 10mill+(this will encourage blockade runners and make things much more interesting in low sec). Make a sub-class of lvl 5 delivery missions with higher rewards and huge/transport size loads. 4) Make standings count for more. I should have less jumps with delivery missions and Better quality kill missions with agents at 10 and npc corps at 10 (it doesn't appear that is the case currently). BTW I have several at 10, it can be done. 5) Decorate players with some sort of medals if you achive 10 with an NPC corp. Medals should include some sort of stat increase. IE 1% bonus to armor, but I'll leave that up to CCP to figure out (just don't make it TOO much, as you can get many if you set your mind too it). Make it fun for all the hard grinding we do as Carebears! 6) What the hell is with PI, make the prerequisites MUCH higher, anyone and their brother can do this now. Right before seed day, you just wait to see all the war decs, it ought to be fun.......The 0.0 residence should be screaming about the low prerequisites on this system.
nugget906	Posted - 2010.05.30 23:28:00 - [111] Originally by: Ildryn Then don't post. You can't prove your in-game experience so you should post in the general chat or out of game discussion area. Not my fault you start problems with your alliance. ...kinda like here. I'll post, nothing you can do about it. And I don't feel the need to prove anything to you.
R Ramjet Virgin Galactica	Posted - 2010.05.31 01:01:00 - [112] /signed
Sturmwolke	Posted - 2010.05.31 01:21:00 - [113] Ninja salvagers are certainly nerfed to hell and back after the rigs changes (last year) and loot changes (in Tyrannis) to L4. It's death of a profession, I wonder if it's even worthwhile to use it as an excuse to grief after those given changes. Oh well, no love lost Give it 2-3 months to settle and we'll be needing a new set of data for L4 mission income. With the reduced Meta 0 drops, volatility observed with other Metas like Y-T8 MWD (and others?), increased travel time and anything else which has escaped notice; I'd say it's not completely accurate to do a vis-a-vis comparisons with old data and shake off the Tyrannis changes as minor.
CPLHEWIE	Posted - 2010.05.31 01:28:00 - [114] /signed
Pyro Ninja	Posted - 2010.05.31 01:36:00 - [115] For all the people that are crying about the mission change, and you plan on EMO RAGE QUIT.. please send me all your stuff since you no longer need/want it. It's not that big of a deal with what has changed.. so you can't farm a lvl5 agent in hi sec, boohoo.. you can't get all the extra mins you want to build stuff, boohoo.. Honestly this whole rage thing Lone provider is on is just childish(I can't do what I want I'm going to hold my breath! then you will see!!) I think the biggest the real reason he is upset is he will have to work harder for that plex so he can still play for free. Every single expansion there are changes and there is a post like this, when they changed it to make sig radius count toward being able to hit someone and the BS's couldn't one shot a frig anymore people cried just like you, but eve went on. So if you want to leave then leave eve will keep going on and people will adapt to the current set of rules. Here to posting in a I'm smarter than CCP thread
Fettered Soul	Posted - 2010.05.31 02:31:00 - [116] Hisec hubs will be like Jita soon Marauders will be useless for 0.5-0.6 mission running
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.05.31 02:38:00 - [117] Not signed. I'm a mission runner, and I understand the need for the loot nerf. Look at the big picture once in awhile, mkay? Originally by: CCP Shadow There is no maximum quota placed on the amount a player can scam from others, provided he/she is using legitimate, in-game methods.
Jason1138	Posted - 2010.05.31 02:56:00 - [118] I am more bothered by having to jump 3 jumps with every single mission than i am by the loot nerf, although all of the tyrannis nerfs annoy the crap out of me this is just more "we're going to ruin pve until you just give up and learn to love pvp" crap from CCP. every single expansion punishes pve-ers and boosts pvp-ers. I wish they would just drop all systems to null and get rid of concord and let us get on with it, if this is the direction they're determined to force everyone to go to
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.05.31 04:04:00 - [119] Originally by: Jason1138 I am more bothered by having to jump 3 jumps with every single mission than i am by the loot nerf, although all of the tyrannis nerfs annoy the crap out of me this is just more "we're going to ruin pve until you just give up and learn to love pvp" crap from CCP. every single expansion punishes pve-ers and boosts pvp-ers. I wish they would just drop all systems to null and get rid of concord and let us get on with it, if this is the direction they're determined to force everyone to go to Yes.. I too honestly can't wait for the expansion that should be called EVE. Cause that is what EVE is.. PvP. If ships don't go BOOM.. the market goes poof.. industrialists go poof.. traders.. pirates.. null sec 'overlords'.. explorers.. wormhole colonizers.. without PvP, EVE dies. I'm amazed how many people use the word 'fun' and 'EVE missions' in the same sentence. It is humorous.. cause it is such bull**. Compared to other MMOs, EVE's mission sigment lacks both depth and challange. CCP could not put their eggs in the PvE basket cause it doesn't really exist. EVE is not, nor will ever be designed for such. Lets say what it really is folks.. iskies. Lets drop the 'fun' arguement. It is about how much isk you can make per hour, with as little risk as possible. Cause if it is truly for fun, well then.. get off your ass people and jump on a low quality agent buried deep in some quiet high sec that won't equate to very much jumping and no low sec risk. Taking away a very small percentage of isk/hr from a player to negate increased risks ruins PvE missioning how exactly? Ruins nothing.. cept your income. Which you people can freely adjust and adapt to, if you think with a broad mind, instead of a selfish narrowminded view. Come outta the tunnel. There is a vast world, when you don't close yourself off and only look in one direction. This Petition will amount to nothing cept fodder for tear drinkers. I do find some of these posts rather amusing myself.. and kinda sad to see how mentally under developed people really are when it comes to analyzing a situation, and then adjusting accordingly to survive in the best possible condition.. while enjoying the ride along the way. I could see a modern day Darwin examining this thread.. and then using it to further prove some of his evolutionary points. Also.. don't forget.. for other professions, their best rewards are out of high sec. Plexers, miners, moon-goo, quality space combat against intelligences, hilarious politics with real people.. everything really is better out 'there'. Why should mission runners be any different? Why should mission runners get the best of their profession in the comfy confines of high sec when others do not have that luxury? Absurd. Bunch of adults crying to momma for a diaper change cause their own ** stinks. Pathetic. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Kvo Vadis	Posted - 2010.05.31 04:29:00 - [120] I use mission running for PVP ships. War is an expansive business. When me and my friends blow up somebodies ship in low-sec there are very cheap t2 loot. This does not cover cost of lost ships. So if mission running is nerfed I will less PVP. Solo mission running in 0.5-0.6 was very good tool for earning money for PVP. If you ask why we do not run missions in 0.3-0.4 in party? Because if we have several peoples online we better spend time for ganging then for killing red crosses
Afrodite Draconis	Posted - 2010.05.31 07:09:00 - [121] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JoeBirras "An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!" I agree /signed It WAS expanded... You get to see more of EVE as you have to travel further for missions... You get to experience fighting in low-sec if you do L5's... You get to manufacture if you want 425mm Railgun I's without paying ISK for them... You get to fly bigger ships if you do L4 transport missions... So I assume you're happy now You forgot "you get to experience gatecamp popping your 2 bil pimped faction boat." That's also new development. Grow a pair whiners!
Nightjester Noir.	Posted - 2010.05.31 07:43:00 - [122] I think what CCP has done to lv4 missions is a good start but they still have to much reward for to little risk. I would be happy for CCP to reverse the missions back to the old loot system and then just half the amount of times when ships drop something. Lv4 missions need to be a lot harder, I fell asleep in one, came back 8 hours later and was still alive even though I was under fire from two groups. Every mission should warp scramble at lv4 also make them more of a challenge. I duel box missions with no risk at all make 80-100m an hour. Loyalty points for high sec should be decreased by 33% and running level 4 missions in low-sec should have loyalty points increased by 200-250% to increase people willing to run them in low sec. I would like to see the reward be maxed to around 20m per hour including loyalty points and refining of loot per hour.
Andra Zeit	Posted - 2010.05.31 08:12:00 - [123] Originally by: Nightjester I think what CCP has done to lv4 missions is a good start but they still have to much reward for to little risk. How about ratting in deep 0.0 home lands? Never seen player enemies.. zero risk, but full pay? Something wrong with the "holy" risk-reward?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.31 08:41:00 - [124] Originally by: Andra Zeit How about ratting in deep 0.0 home lands? Never seen player enemies.. zero risk, but full pay? Something wrong with the "holy" risk-reward? You can't be ousted from highsec; you can from nullsec. So no, working as intended. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Alfa Lavala Traders Industrialists and Miners of EVE	Posted - 2010.05.31 08:54:00 - [125] Originally by: Kvo Vadis I use mission running for PVP ships. War is an expansive business. When me and my friends blow up somebodies ship in low-sec there are very cheap t2 loot. This does not cover cost of lost ships. So if mission running is nerfed I will less PVP. Solo mission running in 0.5-0.6 was very good tool for earning money for PVP. If you ask why we do not run missions in 0.3-0.4 in party? Because if we have several peoples online we better spend time for ganging then for killing red crosses Exactly. Am online waiting for people to come on - different TZ/working hours etc. - I run missions to make isk whilst waiting. Everyone's online we're going to PVP not run low sec missions together...
oneway89	Posted - 2010.05.31 08:54:00 - [126] Besides all the BS getting throw around, you we need to actualy look at who this hurts, ccp has seriously taken a piece out of everyone Mission runners - New and the slow ones that need salvage for income will take a hit. The old elite? s%*t we don't salvage as it is, less isk per hour, so no lose there. Ninja's and newbie salvagers - There geting the worst of it, 70%-80% hit would be about right. Miners - Well base mat prices are undoughtedly going to go up, so all good for them, macro'n or no Industrialist - Once they clear old stock for profit there going to have to pay more overhead with mat prices up. So more overhead equals less units on market. PVP'rs in general - Since base mat prices are up, t1 ship prices will follow close to suit (nm t1 rig prices), and lets face it, most mission runs don't lose a t1 ship a day, if they even still fly one at all. Sure new insurence will adapt abit but still bigger overhead and bigger insurence payment. This was just so blaitently a matter of increasing base ore refining yields to scale them off with drop rates at whatever risk reward they think of them but instead they basicaly altered every other base material source in the game. Don't even get me started on the drone drop rate. Like fixing a broken window by knocking the house down.
Backho	Posted - 2010.05.31 09:22:00 - [127] Mission running carriers a decently sized risk of being suicide ganked, or crash/dc/carelessness losing ship Example of silly risk-to-reward ratio is pirating. Theres no risk ganking a low sec missioner, because the rats will never shoot at you. And they never fit scramblers. Another job with low risk high reward is trading. Sure, you stumble upon people stacking 100 Ys-8s having horrible losses. but otherwise, your almost guaranteed profits because you can always re-sell it worst comes to worst, to the 0.01 isk guy below you. Mission running is overated. We need better missions. and thats lv 5 in high sec.
MajorMeatball	Posted - 2010.05.31 14:24:00 - [128] Edited by: MajorMeatball on 31/05/2010 14:24:03 Gets my vote. I pay to play! Seriously considering to cancel all 5 of my accounts! No you cant haz my stuff! Meat
Galdevwin	Posted - 2010.05.31 14:26:00 - [129] + 1 This patch blows! Galdevwin
ViperCT	Posted - 2010.05.31 14:35:00 - [130] Agreed +1
vcosta	Posted - 2010.05.31 14:37:00 - [131] yeah.mission loot is so lame now +1
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.31 14:37:00 - [132] Originally by: Afrodite Draconis Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: JoeBirras "An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!" I agree /signed It WAS expanded... You get to see more of EVE as you have to travel further for missions... You get to experience fighting in low-sec if you do L5's... You get to manufacture if you want 425mm Railgun I's without paying ISK for them... You get to fly bigger ships if you do L4 transport missions... So I assume you're happy now You forgot "you get to experience gatecamp popping your 2 bil pimped faction boat." That's also new development. Grow a pair whiners! Being in possession of a pair, I assume you lost a 2 bil pimpboat?
1OfMany	Posted - 2010.05.31 15:48:00 - [133] I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. The real 'fix' is to the coding for moving the mission's out of crowded systems, and as Low-sec is usually less crowded then hi-sec systems, it's natural that these occur more often in low-sec. But ofcourse parking a big amount of alts in low-sec helps the probability of the mission going to Hi-sec when less players are located there. About the remarks that everything in EVE has to go boom... ofcourse.. but partially, if everything would become 0.0 as mentioned in the thread, ships and fittings will be priceless and only the richest of them all could afford them as mining would stop for the biggest part, missions too, industrialist would have a hard time getting their resources etc etc all because of chaos and 'wild-west' everywhere, not to mention the NEW players wouldn't last a day outside giving up after their 14 days of trial. or perhaps the day they started. Missions mean income for a big group of people in every profession within EVE, Pirates/Industrialists/Explorers etc. Alot of Pirates have mission alts to pay for their PvP and Piracy Alot of Industrialists mission for paying bills Alot of Explorers run (SoE) missions for equipment/probes and i'm sure i've forgotten more reasons why people mission Level 5 missions in Hi-sec where more fun then in low-sec, not because you could loose PvE ships in low-sec against PvP Ships, but because it was HARDER then in low-sec, Solo or with a friend doing Level 5's in Hi-sec ment you where activly playing them, like using a Cruiser in a Level 4 mission instead of AFK missioning in a Dominix. Low-sec Level 5's is like blitzing the Level 4's, drop a carrier in it and you're done before you know it without too much problems. There are even people with a fully fitted carrier parked in every possible low-sec system their agents could send them to, so all they got to do is fly there light and fast and blitz the mission. I won't go as far as really /signing this thread, but a bit more nuance to the story from both sides will only help make EVE a more fun game for everyone ...
wert668	Posted - 2010.05.31 16:10:00 - [134] Gets my vote! Want lvl5's back
hellscure	Posted - 2010.05.31 17:00:00 - [135] /signed
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.31 17:14:00 - [136] As with ninja salvagers its dead easy to avoid the so called nerfs. Try thinking harder and using the mechanic to your advantage.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.31 17:27:00 - [137] Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 17:20:49 The change is the missions will be biased towards low population systems. No offense, but you should look into it and get a clue. If you can't be bothered to check things in game, actually reading others' reports of what's going on is a good start.
Plukovnik Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.05.31 18:29:00 - [138] Hmmmm, nice. I suggest now CCP makes missiles more usable in PvP. Increasing Missile velocity and explosion velocity would be something I would appreciate - especially T2 precision missiles should have their bonuses at least tripled. CCP, if you were concerned about ravens making huge money easily, now you nerfed loots, you can improve missile usability in PvP, please, please! Missile velocity and explosion velocity doesnt help carebears much :-)
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.05.31 18:40:00 - [139] Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:44:41 Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 17:20:49 The change is the missions will be biased towards low population systems. No offense, but you should look into it and get a clue. If you can't be bothered to check things in game, actually reading others' reports of what's going on is a good start. I read patch notes and ignore whiners. Here is the extract 'The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.' Source Linkage Now tell me where low sec is mentioned? As to mission loot I've not looted for months, it's very time inefficient. Only new players, bad players and marauder pilots will be affected. I'm next to a low sec system and not been sent there for the past 15 missions I did. That's less than before. Also, as there will be less looting Meta 1 to 4 and salvage will go up in price anyway.
Ghost Wisperer	Posted - 2010.05.31 18:53:00 - [140] Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:50:27 I read patch notes and ignore whiners. Here is the extract 'The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.' Source Linkage Now tell me where low sec is mentioned? As to mission loot I've not looted for months, it's very time inefficient. Only new players, bad players and marauder pilots will be affected. I'm next to a low sec system and not been sent there for the past 15 missions I did. That's less than before. Also, as there will be less looting Meta 1 to 4 and salvage will go up in price anyway. Moaning is easy and the changes have boosted my income: Deflation without the mission income being changed means I get more for missions. I've always been careful where I mission and avoided crowds, the change means I often get a mission in the system I am in which saves time. If the price of salvage does recover and Meta 1 to 4 goes up too then it may be worth salvaging/looting again. Сool Story Bro !
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.31 19:05:00 - [141] Originally by: Ghost Wisperer Originally by: Zartrader Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:50:27 I read patch notes and ignore whiners. Here is the extract 'The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.' Source Linkage Now tell me where low sec is mentioned? As to mission loot I've not looted for months, it's very time inefficient. Only new players, bad players and marauder pilots will be affected. I'm next to a low sec system and not been sent there for the past 15 missions I did. That's less than before. Also, as there will be less looting Meta 1 to 4 and salvage will go up in price anyway. Moaning is easy and the changes have boosted my income: Deflation without the mission income being changed means I get more for missions. I've always been careful where I mission and avoided crowds, the change means I often get a mission in the system I am in which saves time. If the price of salvage does recover and Meta 1 to 4 goes up too then it may be worth salvaging/looting again. Сool Story Bro ! Lol,see? Clueless to what's actually going on. Didioxie population: 400 and rising.
Wicked Spider	Posted - 2010.05.31 20:27:00 - [142] way to many jumps for courier missions the 1 metal scrap ... fun went down since the change
Objectless Hatred Caldari colonial 1	Posted - 2010.05.31 20:47:00 - [143] /signed.
Johivan Clause	Posted - 2010.05.31 21:07:00 - [144] /signed. The nerfs need to be un-nerfed!
Cpt Stealk	Posted - 2010.05.31 21:14:00 - [145] /signed I may not be affected by loot drop as I run the missions too fast with the torp cnr but even with the cnr running lvl 4's as fast as possible I'm having to run missions twice as long to make half as much profit as running lvl 5's in a Tengu. Now I realize most people will say 'stop complaining you're already making more isk than others' You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts, and afford the pvp ships for my alt. I try to mission as less as possible as it's extremely boring. But now that I'm back to running lvl 4's EVE has become a tedius job again. Instead of coming on and running missions for an hour or 2 in the morning, I have to spend the entire afternoon trying to spam lvl 4's and I'm making half as much. Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for. Let me put this into perspective. Before the patch I would mission for an hour or 2 in the morning and pvp throughout the afternoon and evening. Now since the patch I have only done missions throughout the day and made less isk since patch release than I would have in 2 days of running lvl 5's in the morning. I haven't had any time to pvp while playing EVE and it's extremely tedious and boring. Not sure why I would want to play..
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.31 21:20:00 - [146] Originally by: Cpt Stealk /signed I may not be affected by loot drop as I run the missions too fast with the torp cnr but even with the cnr running lvl 4's as fast as possible I'm having to run missions twice as long to make half as much profit as running lvl 5's in a Tengu. Now I realize most people will say 'stop complaining you're already making more isk than others' You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts, and afford the pvp ships for my alt. I try to mission as less as possible as it's extremely boring. But now that I'm back to running lvl 4's EVE has become a tedius job again. Instead of coming on and running missions for an hour or 2 in the morning, I have to spend the entire afternoon trying to spam lvl 4's and I'm making half as much. Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for. Let me put this into perspective. Before the patch I would mission for an hour or 2 in the morning and pvp throughout the afternoon and evening. Now since the patch I have only done missions throughout the day and made less isk since patch release than I would have in 2 days of running lvl 5's in the morning. I haven't had any time to pvp while playing EVE and it's extremely tedious and boring. Not sure why I would want to play.. You do realize those forum petitions are worthless, right? Cancel one of those accounts, since you no longer need it for lvl5s. That's the real petition.
The Augmentor	Posted - 2010.05.31 21:52:00 - [147] +1 to the petition ccp should have looked at other ways to change high sec level 5s before destroying them....it makes sense to divert people to lowly populated areas, but i doubt that 100 people in a system running missions needs anything to divert at all...if it does they need new servers. the only people who make a lot out of level 5s are the people ccp lets (and lets be very clear about this....ccp purposefully added that functionality) duelbox....if i had to play 3 games of spaceinvaders at the same time just to make it fun i wouldnt play the game in the first place.
Cpt Stealk	Posted - 2010.05.31 22:02:00 - [148] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Cpt Stealk /signed I may not be affected by loot drop as I run the missions too fast with the torp cnr but even with the cnr running lvl 4's as fast as possible I'm having to run missions twice as long to make half as much profit as running lvl 5's in a Tengu. Now I realize most people will say 'stop complaining you're already making more isk than others' You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts, and afford the pvp ships for my alt. I try to mission as less as possible as it's extremely boring. But now that I'm back to running lvl 4's EVE has become a tedius job again. Instead of coming on and running missions for an hour or 2 in the morning, I have to spend the entire afternoon trying to spam lvl 4's and I'm making half as much. Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for. Let me put this into perspective. Before the patch I would mission for an hour or 2 in the morning and pvp throughout the afternoon and evening. Now since the patch I have only done missions throughout the day and made less isk since patch release than I would have in 2 days of running lvl 5's in the morning. I haven't had any time to pvp while playing EVE and it's extremely tedious and boring. Not sure why I would want to play.. You do realize those forum petitions are worthless, right? Cancel one of those accounts, since you no longer need it for lvl5s. That's the real petition. My pvp account is incompetent at making isk as I am a ceptor/vaga pilot and all of my skills for pvp. Therefore a second account is essential to keeping my pvp habbits moving along. And if you were trying to say I don't need one of the accounts for logistics or something to run the lvl 5's, I never used logistics. My characters are on separate sides of the universe from each other.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.05.31 22:37:00 - [149] Quote: Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for. Fair enough. Except Quote: You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts Buying plex doesn't count. You realize how the plex market works, right? You aren't paying CCP in ISK, you are paying another player. Anyway, here's why what you're doing is dumb: Based on GTC prices, $14-15 is worth about 300 million ISK. That means that if you can make $7/hour working, you'd need to make 150 million ISK/hour for it to make financial sense to grind missions to pay for your sub. Since you clearly aren't making that much, get a part time job. You'd spend less time grinding (if missions are boring, you may even enjoy work more), you'd be able to pay for your accounts, sell a couple GTC of your own to fund your PVP, and STILL have money left over for hookers and coke.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.31 23:00:00 - [150] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for. Fair enough. Except Quote: You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts Buying plex doesn't count. You realize how the plex market works, right? You aren't paying CCP in ISK, you are paying another player. Anyway, here's why what you're doing is dumb: Based on GTC prices, $14-15 is worth about 300 million ISK. That means that if you can make $7/hour working, you'd need to make 150 million ISK/hour for it to make financial sense to grind missions to pay for your sub. Since you clearly aren't making that much, get a part time job. You'd spend less time grinding (if missions are boring, you may even enjoy work more), you'd be able to pay for your accounts, sell a couple GTC of your own to fund your PVP, and STILL have money left over for hookers and coke. Makes sense in theory, except people don't equate time wasted playing eve pve with actual work. They'd be spending that money buying other games, but won't think twice about wasting their life away grinding missions. Aside from that, did you know that Solitaire is BY FAR the most popular PC game of all time? Strangely enough, most people play eve for the mission grind itself, and don't see it as a means to an end.
raukosen	Posted - 2010.05.31 23:06:00 - [151] Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. Wow How ***ing dense* can you be?
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.01 03:11:00 - [152] Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. WOW What the ** do you need? A ing sign? That Dev Blog was what level 5 missions were intended to be. It didn't work out that way for one reason or another but it has now been fixed. You as a player have to accept that and move on. Stop whining ***.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.01 03:28:00 - [153] Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. WOW What the ** do you need? A ing sign? That Dev Blog was what level 5 missions were intended to be. It didn't work out that way for one reason or another but it has now been fixed. You as a player have to accept that and move on. Stop whining ***. That is false. The blog states agents are in lowsec, which is true, not that missions are in lowsec. You need to man-up and admit that it's only your personal opinion that lvl5 missions should be in lowsec, nothing more (I actually agree with your opinion, by the way). But this does not change the fact that CCP never stated that lvl5 missions are intended to always take place in lowsec. Your opinion is still valid without you trying to create some imaginary CCP statement out of thin air. Try to retain some dignity for yourself.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.01 03:48:00 - [154] My own personal jiminy cricket. Your right. I do interpret that blog as what i would like it to be. But instead of all these people trying to change it. Lets get an official Dev post eh.
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.06.01 03:58:00 - [155] Edited by: Misanthra on 01/06/2010 03:58:23 Originally by: Goose99 You need to man-up and admit that it's only your personal opinion that lvl5 missions should be in lowsec, nothing more (I actually agree with your opinion, by the way). But this does not change the fact that CCP never stated that lvl5 missions are intended to always take place in lowsec. Your opinion is still valid without you trying to create some imaginary CCP statement out of thin air. Try to retain some dignity for yourself. Well if going to low sec to get the mission....running in low sec kind of a logical assumption you are gonna be there. CCP just made that assumption more set in stone in patch is all. If someone enjoyed the money before patch...now they have to decide how much they like the isk after patch. Take the risk or come back to empire mission hubs. Or come out to null sec. Pick up a fleet ship to defend/attack a pos every now and then for a corp/alliance cta. Besides that, once belts warmed up some damn good money out there with the increased chance for faction/officer spawns with timing and luck. Find a crew with jf service and your stuff magically appears in an empire system for usually low isk per m3 to make it safer.
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.06.01 04:07:00 - [156] Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:13:28 Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:10:45 Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. WOW What the ** do you need? A ing sign? That Dev Blog was what level 5 missions were intended to be. It didn't work out that way for one reason or another but it has now been fixed. You as a player have to accept that and move on. Stop whining ***. "Wah...Wah...Wahhhh! I hate Hi-sec LvL5s cause I can't do them!! " JEALOUS! JEALOUS! JEALOUS! 1/ This is supposed to be a Petition for people who agree with it, not disagree. 2/ Sounds like all the Haterz of this thread and LvL5s in Hi-sec are those that chose Mining as a career and actually only wished they could solo a LvL5. DON'T WORRY! I'm sure you'll have the skills.....one day!
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.01 04:12:00 - [157] Originally by: Misanthra Edited by: Misanthra on 01/06/2010 03:58:23 Originally by: Goose99 You need to man-up and admit that it's only your personal opinion that lvl5 missions should be in lowsec, nothing more (I actually agree with your opinion, by the way). But this does not change the fact that CCP never stated that lvl5 missions are intended to always take place in lowsec. Your opinion is still valid without you trying to create some imaginary CCP statement out of thin air. Try to retain some dignity for yourself. Well if going to low sec to get the mission....running in low sec kind of a logical assumption you are gonna be there. CCP just made that assumption more set in stone in patch is all. If someone enjoyed the money before patch...now they have to decide how much they like the isk after patch. Take the risk or come back to empire mission hubs. Or come out to null sec. Pick up a fleet ship to defend/attack a pos every now and then for a corp/alliance cta. Besides that, once belts warmed up some damn good money out there with the increased chance for faction/officer spawns with timing and luck. Find a crew with jf service and your stuff magically appears in an empire system for usually low isk per m3 to make it safer. Yeah, like how when you pick up highsec lvl4s, it's kinda logical that mission would be in highsec? An assumption is just an assumption, it's either set in stone or it's not. Highsec lvl5s still happen, corps would dump useless alts into lowsec for highsec spawns. Btw, peanut highsec corps get pwned in null. That pos will be gone before you get acquainted with it.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.06.01 05:52:00 - [158] Ok let me spell it out for those of you who don't get it. As a ninja looter salvager I've lost 80% of my income because most of the mission loot salvage values are in the large wrecks. Its pointless for me to only salvage the large wrecks when there is no valuable loot. Ninja looting salvaging was 80% of my income. Coincidentally, about 80% of mission loot and salvage was from large wrecks. So if you're missioning and now you're not getting valuable loot from large wrecks there's little point in salvaging the wrecks....waste of time better spent doing more missions, IMO. Since the income from a mission is about 55 - 60% LP and bounties, the other 40 - 45% is loot and salvage....which of course is pointless to waste the time collecting if you depended on the large wreck loots and salvage..........so yeah, the missioners lost 40% of their income. Look, I know all this is guestimation. Considering I ninja'd for oh....8 mos.....increasing my income 6 fold I might just have some insight into where the valuable loot and salvage in a mission is.....large wrecks....and I might have a pretty good feel for the distribution of value in a mission is too. If that's not good enough, well too bad. Firstly, can't be replicated now. And secondly even if I had legit looking "numbers" you still wouldn't still wouldn't get it. BTW, those numbers you quoted for your mission income breakdown.....were those verified? Can I replicate them? The answer is of course, no and no.....so give me a break.
Eugenics Progeny	Posted - 2010.06.01 06:52:00 - [159] signed
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.01 06:57:00 - [160] Originally by: Mr Kidd Edited by: Mr Kidd on 01/06/2010 05:57:58 Ok let me spell it out for those of you who don't get it. As a ninja looter salvager I've lost 80% of my income because most of the mission loot salvage values are in the large wrecks. Its pointless for me to only salvage the large wrecks when there is no valuable loot. Ninja looting salvaging was 80% of my income. Coincidentally, about 80% of mission loot and salvage was from large wrecks. So if you're missioning and now you're not getting valuable loot from large wrecks there's little point in salvaging the wrecks....waste of time better spent doing more missions, IMO. Since the income from a mission is about 55 - 60% LP and bounties, the other 40 - 45% is loot and salvage....which of course is pointless to waste the time collecting if you depended on the large wreck loots and salvage. Now I know that 80% of 40% is not 40%. But if you were looting salvaging all the wrecks which I've already pointed out is beyond the point of diminishing returns from a income/time ratio, then it is even more pointless to continue doing it now. So yeah, the missioners lost 40% of their income. If you can run missions half way decent but not well enough to blitz them then you'd just be an idiot to continue looting and salvaging the mission now after you completed it. Look, I know all this is guestimation. Considering I ninja'd for oh....8 mos.....increasing my income 6 fold I might just have some insight into where the valuable loot and salvage in a mission is.....large wrecks....and I might have a pretty good feel for the distribution of value in a mission is too. If that's not good enough, well too bad. Firstly, can't be replicated now. And secondly even if I had legit looking "numbers" you still wouldn't still wouldn't get it. BTW, those numbers you quoted for your mission income breakdown.....were those verified? Can I replicate them? The answer is of course, no and no.....so give me a break. Heres the best.. logical answer you'll get.. Find A New Job. Welcome to an MMO.. where **** changes at the snap of the Gods fingers. Where one day a wizard owns a warrior and the next a warrior owns a wizard. Lucky for you sir.. this is a game backed heavily by a player run economy. You ain't ever going to get 'your' loot back in wrecks.. if anything, CCP will tweak more crap outta of them if they feel a particular item is being melted entirely too much. BUT... I see what ya did there. I get it now, Kidd. Awwww you little trickster you! Tellin' everyone they idiots to loot n salvage their wrecks this entire time while trying to look like a saint. Yeaaah.. I noticed the raising salvage item prices too, and its not even been a week of this yet. Funny thing about Supply/Demand.. it works. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Spins Meats Metalworks	Posted - 2010.06.01 07:52:00 - [161] Edited by: Spins Meats on 01/06/2010 07:53:32 Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. This post, perhaps? Took me all of three minutes to find; I'm sure there are others, I just can't be bothered doing your homework for you. For what it's worth from the POV of somebody who used to run a fair number of L4s in order to fund my terrible lowsec PvPing (not replying to anyone in specific, but to a bunch of points that people have brought up earlier in this thread) : Removing meta 0 drops just plain makes sense. Overcompensating with meta3-4 is p dumb, though, creating downwards pressure on the high meta items and (since they reprocess to (edit: practically) nothing) potentially dragging them under the price of meta 0 goods. This will not help noob industrialists L5s are working as intended. They were patently never designed to be solo'd in highsec. Having said that, they're still designed to rely on flawed rat/tower aggro mechanics (else your logistics might get shot up.) I've flown logistics in a bunch of L5s, and the only thing keeping you alive is the fact that the rats won't shoot you once the tank has aggro. Wormholes and sleepers are a far superior implementation of the same concept (the concept being 'PvE that's harder and more fun than L4s'). Nerfing ninja salvagers/looters runs contrary to what I would have assumed CCP's intentions were. Once you get to a certain point in the isk:hour/fun:hour relationship, looting becomes completely pointless from an isk/fun/hour standpoint, even if it would have made marginally more isk/hour than blitzing. Obviously once you get your gank to a certain point, this holds true even without accounting for fun (I haven't looted or salvaged an L4 since Apoc 1.5 came out and trashed the salvage market.) PvE in lowsec is by no means majorly dangerous, you just need to think outside of the box. Nobody (well, nobody intelligent) is going to be taking 2B faction-fit pimpwagons through a highsec/lowsec gate, but there's an awful lot of exploration/etc stuff that can be done in a shield buffer-fit PvP setup with a point. Complaining about how a particular change to a game like Eve has nerfed your specific playstyle is, at its heart, completely ****ing selfish. Balance the buff to miners given by nerfing meta0 drops and drone crap with the nerf to miners given by the insurance changes and it seems like miners are getting a fairly neutral deal (although I'm sure somebody in MD has analysed things a LOT better than I have.) Changes to PvE missions are collateral damage. HTFU and deal with it.
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.06.01 08:05:00 - [162] Originally by: Spins Meats Edited by: Spins Meats on 01/06/2010 07:53:32 Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. This post, perhaps? Took me all of three minutes to find; I'm sure there are others, I just can't be bothered doing your homework for you. For what it's worth from the POV of somebody who used to run a fair number of L4s in order to fund my terrible lowsec PvPing (not replying to anyone in specific, but to a bunch of points that people have brought up earlier in this thread) : Removing meta 0 drops just plain makes sense. Overcompensating with meta3-4 is p dumb, though, creating downwards pressure on the high meta items and (since they reprocess to (edit: practically) nothing) potentially dragging them under the price of meta 0 goods. This will not help noob industrialists L5s are working as intended. They were patently never designed to be solo'd in highsec. Having said that, they're still designed to rely on flawed rat/tower aggro mechanics (else your logistics might get shot up.) I've flown logistics in a bunch of L5s, and the only thing keeping you alive is the fact that the rats won't shoot you once the tank has aggro. Wormholes and sleepers are a far superior implementation of the same concept (the concept being 'PvE that's harder and more fun than L4s'). Nerfing ninja salvagers/looters runs contrary to what I would have assumed CCP's intentions were. Once you get to a certain point in the isk:hour/fun:hour relationship, looting becomes completely pointless from an isk/fun/hour standpoint, even if it would have made marginally more isk/hour than blitzing. Obviously once you get your gank to a certain point, this holds true even without accounting for fun (I haven't looted or salvaged an L4 since Apoc 1.5 came out and trashed the salvage market.) PvE in lowsec is by no means majorly dangerous, you just need to think outside of the box. Nobody (well, nobody intelligent) is going to be taking 2B faction-fit pimpwagons through a highsec/lowsec gate, but there's an awful lot of exploration/etc stuff that can be done in a shield buffer-fit PvP setup with a point. Complaining about how a particular change to a game like Eve has nerfed your specific playstyle is, at its heart, completely ****ing selfish. Balance the buff to miners given by nerfing meta0 drops and drone crap with the nerf to miners given by the insurance changes and it seems like miners are getting a fairly neutral deal (although I'm sure somebody in MD has analysed things a LOT better than I have.) Changes to PvE missions are collateral damage. HTFU and deal with it. I looked at your link, lol. So, CCP said: DON'T COUNT ON THAT LASTING FOREVER!!! Don't count on what lasting forever, LvL5s? LvL5 Agents in Low-sec? High-sec won't last forever? I still don't see where CCP has written what you say they have!
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.01 08:05:00 - [163] Quote: Ok let me spell it out for those of you who don't get it. As a ninja looter salvager I've lost 80% of my income because most of the mission loot salvage values are in the large wrecks. Excuse me, 95% of the ninjas that (try to) take my stuff are exclusively after the salvage (cheaper and quicker ship to use, don't become shootable and so on). Now, I am doing L4 left and right but I did not notice ANY change in the salvage. So, what did you exactly lose? What the huge majority of ninjas don't even bother to take? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
NAVi Slayer	Posted - 2010.06.01 08:17:00 - [164] I must agree, L5 mission in low sec is like doing kamikadze. One mission = one lost ship. And why? Because many pirates wait for chance to easy hit. I hope, that CCP find good solution of this problem.
Spins Meats Metalworks	Posted - 2010.06.01 09:14:00 - [165] Originally by: Lone Provider I looked at your link, lol. So, CCP said: DON'T COUNT ON THAT LASTING FOREVER!!! Don't count on what lasting forever, LvL5s? LvL5 Agents in Low-sec? High-sec won't last forever? Your inability to read for meaning does not constitute a failure on CCP's part. Let me spell it out for you: "goazer" said "Wrong, agents are in lowsec, but if the next door system is in highsec, you will get lvl 5 missions to highsec too.", to which CCP Dropbear replied "Don't count on that lasting forever. ". Since the point of discussion in the thread was whether l5s existed in highsec or not, it seems reasonably obvious to anybody with a pulse that the subject of Dropbear's comment was highsec l5s. Originally by: Lone Provider I still don't see where CCP has written what you say they have! I didn't say they had said anything. "1ofMany" said Originally by: 1ofMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. I replied with a quote which clearly refutes that point. Your obvious sophistry is self evident and cheap. Pathetic. 0/10.
Vitamin B12	Posted - 2010.06.01 09:25:00 - [166] well funny that nobody said that a CRUISER/BATTLECRUISER drop more isk in loot then a BATTLESHIP after the patch. i mean WTF?! and why the **** does a battleship drop 1 metalscraps... i mean it like ccp says: "hey bro you know the 1 metal scrap could be a normal bs loot but we just patched it hahaha". seriously why 1 metal scraps????
1OfMany	Posted - 2010.06.01 09:35:00 - [167] Edited by: 1OfMany on 01/06/2010 09:46:01 Edited by: 1OfMany on 01/06/2010 09:45:11 Originally by: Spins Meats Edited by: Spins Meats on 01/06/2010 07:53:32 Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. This post, perhaps? Took me all of three minutes to find; I'm sure there are others, I just can't be bothered doing your homework for you. OMG .... a CCP reply with the remark 'DONT COUNT ON IT TO LAST'..... i've seen it and i dont add value to it unless it's part of the original expansion or patch notes. You must be into the category that believes every politicians promise of change... Or that everything CCP has promised in the past years will still come true as well as all the minor frustrating bugs will be fixed in the next expansion.. My point still stands, that remark of the CCP Dropbear does not mean it is intended to be lowsec from the start if you wish to read it whatever way. The ONLY thing i conclude from this remark besides that it aint official is that they MIGHT reconsider the official implementation and change it accordingly in some future patch/expansion. Nothing more , nothing less...
1OfMany	Posted - 2010.06.01 09:41:00 - [168] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:13:28 Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:10:45 Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. WOW What the ** do you need? A ing sign? That Dev Blog was what level 5 missions were intended to be. It didn't work out that way for one reason or another but it has now been fixed. You as a player have to accept that and move on. Stop whining *. "Wah...Wah...Wahhhh! I hate Hi-sec LvL5s cause I can't do them!! " JEALOUS! JEALOUS! JEALOUS! 1/ This is supposed to be a Petition for people who agree with it, not disagree. 2/ Sounds like all the Haterz of this thread and LvL5s in Hi-sec are those that chose Mining as a career and actually only wished they could solo a LvL5. DON'T WORRY! I'm sure you'll have the skills.....one day!** He might have the skills, but not the security status to go there.... all fore and against people have their own (economic) agenda for their stand....
Vitamin B12	Posted - 2010.06.01 09:58:00 - [169] Originally by: 1OfMany Edited by: 1OfMany on 01/06/2010 09:46:01 Edited by: 1OfMany on 01/06/2010 09:45:11 Originally by: Spins Meats Edited by: Spins Meats on 01/06/2010 07:53:32 Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. This post, perhaps? Took me all of three minutes to find; I'm sure there are others, I just can't be bothered doing your homework for you. OMG .... a CCP reply with the remark 'DONT COUNT ON IT TO LAST'..... i've seen it and i dont add value to it unless it's part of the original expansion or patch notes. You must be into the category that believes every politicians promise of change... Or that everything CCP has promised in the past years will still come true as well as all the minor frustrating bugs will be fixed in the next expansion.. My point still stands, that remark of the CCP Dropbear does not mean it is intended to be lowsec from the start if you wish to read it whatever way. The ONLY thing i conclude from this remark besides that it aint official is that they MIGHT reconsider the official implementation and change it accordingly in some future patch/expansion. Nothing more , nothing less... well to sum it up. ccp wanted to nerf the fact that you can do lvl5's in highsec. problem here: they were so lazy and just change few values that now lvl4 missionrunners also have the problem. means alot more lowsec level4 missions. mean that 0.5 sec status agents will die and eve have 5-6 big missionrunner hubs. i guess thats not they way ccp want it. so maybe put some effort in the code so only lvl5's are affected by the nerf!!
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:09:00 - [170] Originally by: Vitamin B12 Originally by: 1OfMany Edited by: 1OfMany on 01/06/2010 09:46:01 Edited by: 1OfMany on 01/06/2010 09:45:11 Originally by: Spins Meats Edited by: Spins Meats on 01/06/2010 07:53:32 Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. This post, perhaps? Took me all of three minutes to find; I'm sure there are others, I just can't be bothered doing your homework for you. OMG .... a CCP reply with the remark 'DONT COUNT ON IT TO LAST'..... i've seen it and i dont add value to it unless it's part of the original expansion or patch notes. You must be into the category that believes every politicians promise of change... Or that everything CCP has promised in the past years will still come true as well as all the minor frustrating bugs will be fixed in the next expansion.. My point still stands, that remark of the CCP Dropbear does not mean it is intended to be lowsec from the start if you wish to read it whatever way. The ONLY thing i conclude from this remark besides that it aint official is that they MIGHT reconsider the official implementation and change it accordingly in some future patch/expansion. Nothing more , nothing less... well to sum it up. ccp wanted to nerf the fact that you can do lvl5's in highsec. problem here: they were so lazy and just change few values that now lvl4 missionrunners also have the problem. means alot more lowsec level4 missions. mean that 0.5 sec status agents will die and eve have 5-6 big missionrunner hubs. i guess thats not they way ccp want it. so maybe put some effort in the code so only lvl5's are affected by the nerf!! NO! It has nothing to do with where lvl5s are at, The Nerf was to take pressure off systems and spread missions about into less crowded systems The answer for CCP, USE SOME OF THE MONTHLY úMILLIONS YOU RAKE IN FROM THE SUBSCRIBERS AND UPGRADE YOUR SERVER
Derelicht	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:19:00 - [171] Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but it's nice to see we're getting consecutive L3 missions in low sec now. /me starts taking bets on when they will reverse (or partly reverse) this stroke of genius.
Spins Meats Gallente Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:25:00 - [172] Originally by: Derelicht Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but it's nice to see we're getting consecutive L3 missions in low sec now. Or possibly they want players to start doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING outside of highsec. You're deluding yourself if you think that most L3s can't trivially be done solo in a PvP fitted ship. Originally by: Derelicht /me starts taking bets on when they will reverse (or partly reverse) this stroke of genius. It's (inherently self-limiting) attitudes like this which are the root of the problem.
Spins Meats Gallente Metalworks Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:31:00 - [173] Originally by: 1OfMany OMG .... a CCP reply with the remark 'DONT COUNT ON IT TO LAST'..... i've seen it and i dont add value to it unless it's part of the original expansion or patch notes. You must be into the category that believes every politicians promise of change... Or that everything CCP has promised in the past years will still come true as well as all the minor frustrating bugs will be fixed in the next expansion.. No, I'm 'into' the category that believes that a comment from an employee of a company about a thing is proof against "nobody from that company ever said anything about this thing." Like it or hate it, CCP have expressed INTENT in the past, even if only in the form of this (and other) throwaway comments. Whether you and others expected them to actually follow through or not is thoroughly irrelevant.
Oddshrub Minmatar Rummets koldeste kys	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:38:00 - [174] Originally by: Misanthra Well if going to low sec to get the mission....running in low sec kind of a logical assumption you are gonna be there. Maybe it is for you, but that's not how they actually work. Low sec agents will send you into high sec once in a while. Which is actually more dangerous than just doing the mission in low sec since you'll have to cross gates instead of just sitting aligned keeping an eye out for probes. :p
Noran Ferah Red Sky Morning	Posted - 2010.06.01 12:20:00 - [175] Well, missioning in lowsec is not that hard. Unprobeable tengu and/or legion gets it done. Who would have thought that piece of crap legion actually has a use? I only do that for the LP though, because it is not available elsewhere in the amounts I want it for that particular corp. WTS: 2 T2 purger fit rattlesnakes, has a shiny new skin, but not much use...
RedSplat Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.01 13:12:00 - [176] Level 5's are Lowsec content. If you cant, cant be bothered to or are too frightened of actual risk to go to Lowsec then i suggest you stick to level 4's in highsec or try playing a game that isn't EVE online. Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.01 13:19:00 - [177] Originally by: RedSplat Level 5's are Lowsec content. If you cant, cant be bothered to or are too frightened of actual risk to go to Lowsec then i suggest you stick to level 4's in highsec or try playing a game that isn't EVE online. That contradicts reality. Some corps have dumped useless alts into lowsec, forcing l5 agents to spawn highsec lvl5s majority of the time. Not saying that it shouldn't be lowsec content(I think it should), just that it isn't.
Luthor Nakatomi	Posted - 2010.06.01 13:52:00 - [178] Originally by: Spins Meats Originally by: 1OfMany OMG .... a CCP reply with the remark 'DONT COUNT ON IT TO LAST'..... i've seen it and i dont add value to it unless it's part of the original expansion or patch notes. You must be into the category that believes every politicians promise of change... Or that everything CCP has promised in the past years will still come true as well as all the minor frustrating bugs will be fixed in the next expansion.. No, I'm 'into' the category that believes that a comment from an employee of a company about a thing is proof against "nobody from that company ever said anything about this thing." Like it or hate it, CCP have expressed INTENT in the past, even if only in the form of this (and other) throwaway comments. Whether you and others expected them to actually follow through or not is thoroughly irrelevant. just reading this funny thread, so what you basicly say is that your interpretation of the same words is just because they show intent, while any other interpretation is irrelevant/not true as they believe many intents from CCP's part never come through? I would think in a democratic way that both statements are as valid or irrelevant and the thruth will be somewhere in a timeline sheet on a CCP employees desk, or trashcan ... I dont care what happens either way, W-space or 0.0 is much more fun.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.01 14:08:00 - [179] Originally by: Luthor Nakatomi I dont care what happens either way, W-space or 0.0 is much more fun. WH is fun. Sov null is macro-ratting, plex farming on steroids. In some of those backwater systems you can go on for weeks without seeing a single hostile. You're more likely to get suicide ganked in highsec hub than killed out here. Although there is the obligatory lagfest once in a while, if that's your definition of fun.
Natalie Caladan Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.06.01 14:58:00 - [180] Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 01/06/2010 15:02:38 Well if CCP wants people in lowsec they should try something different than sending missionrunners to it. The only effect is that people will all go to central highsec L4 hubs >5 jumps from lowsec, effectually putting MORE strain on local hubs, as you can read here. Thus having the reversed effect than intended. And why do they want people in lowsec anyway? The difficuly way (for CCP) would be making missions far more challenging and PvP like. Like fewer, smarter, stronger NPCs that need teams, cooperation and PvPesque techniques and builds to succeed. Whether you agree with it or not, this CCP move clearly hasn't the intended result.
Donny Maurasi	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:13:00 - [181] +1 Rep to CCP for best greifing..
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.06.01 15:25:00 - [182] Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 15:27:41 Originally by: Natalie Caladan Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 01/06/2010 15:02:38 Well if CCP wants people in lowsec they should try something different than sending missionrunners to it. The only effect is that people will all go to central highsec L4 hubs >5 jumps from lowsec, effectually putting MORE strain on local hubs, as you can read here. Thus having the reversed effect than intended. And why do they want people in lowsec anyway? The difficuly way (for CCP) would be making missions far more challenging and PvP like. Like fewer, smarter, stronger NPCs that need teams, cooperation and PvPesque techniques and builds to succeed. Whether you agree with it or not, this CCP move clearly hasn't the intended result. NO! It has nothing to do with getting players into low-sec, The Nerf was to take pressure off systems and spread missions about into less crowded systems, which ever type, hi or low The answer for CCP, USE SOME OF THE MONTHLY úMILLIONS YOU RAKE IN FROM THE SUBSCRIBERS AND UPGRADE YOUR SERVER
Entgo Ditumi	Posted - 2010.06.01 16:09:00 - [183] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 29/05/2010 17:12:37 Originally by: Dungheap what's your source for those % ? He (and others) have collected them over a long period of time. Dig a couple of pages down through this subforum or go to eve-search to have a look at the various L4 statistics threads. Originally by: Goose99 This is false. Prove it. He has actual data on his side; you have nothing. ... omfg. The point is that even if these percentages are accurate, they will change with the agent quality, pirate faction, and skils/techniques of the the pilot running the mission. This isn't something that needs to be proven with "actual data." It's just commonsense.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.06.01 16:21:00 - [184] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 01/06/2010 16:26:14 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Ok let me spell it out for those of you who don't get it. As a ninja looter salvager I've lost 80% of my income because most of the mission loot salvage values are in the large wrecks. Excuse me, 95% of the ninjas that (try to) take my stuff are exclusively after the salvage (cheaper and quicker ship to use, don't become shootable and so on). Now, I am doing L4 left and right but I did not notice ANY change in the salvage. So, what did you exactly lose? What the huge majority of ninjas don't even bother to take? You're hopeless. But I'll spell it out again. Yes I started salvaging as a ninja. And that was great. Then I realized a significant portion of the value in missions is in loot. So I looted and salvaged. Tweaking my techiques and what I went after (large wrecks, specific items) my income skyrocketed. 8mos and a 6 fold increase in income over salvaging only I'm screwed. Now that large wreck loot is nerfed it effectively makes ninjaing looting and salvaging worthless to me and anyone else with a clue. Thats a 80% loss of my income. Why would I be content to have an income I had 8mos ago? Would you? No. So STFU. Could I limit my loss and still ninja. Sure. But only an idiot loses the larger percentage of their overall income and continues doing the same damn thing. For Christ's sake use some common sense will you? If by chance you've never ninja looted salvaged then quit talking out of your ass like you know something.
SlingenLead	Posted - 2010.06.01 17:18:00 - [185] CCP doing this is total BS.. Enough said..
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2010.06.01 17:19:00 - [186] This is not a petition. This is a thread full of whiny inbreds, mouthbreathing their way to apoplectic rage! --- ☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.01 17:21:00 - [187] Originally by: Captain Pompous This is not a petition. This is a thread full of whiny inbreds, mouthbreathing their way to apoplectic rage! And additional whiny inbreds whinning about all the whine.
triafrenum	Posted - 2010.06.01 17:29:00 - [188] Can I have your stuff?
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2010.06.01 17:55:00 - [189] By the way, has there been any clarification from CCP were they even trying to nerf Level 4's or its just collateral damage?
Lone Provider	Posted - 2010.06.01 18:01:00 - [190] Originally by: Captain Pompous This is not a petition. This is a thread full of whiny inbreds, mouthbreathing their way to apoplectic rage! and you sir, are a pompous cabbage
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.01 18:30:00 - [191] Originally by: Dzajic By the way, has there been any clarification from CCP were they even trying to nerf Level 4's or its just collateral damage? Working as intended. CCP doesn't like you. Miners got the collateral damage, insurance changes.
HellSpeed Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2010.06.01 18:32:00 - [192] /signed Useless stuff from CCP. And tbh I don't like this expansion. On the other hand, why are you reading my signature?
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.01 18:38:00 - [193] Quote: USE SOME OF THE MONTHLY úMILLIONS YOU RAKE IN FROM THE SUBSCRIBERS AND UPGRADE YOUR SERVER No **, stop ing nerfing ** and fix the goddamn lag.
Vitamin B12	Posted - 2010.06.01 20:33:00 - [194] Originally by: TV Evangelist Quote: USE SOME OF THE MONTHLY úMILLIONS YOU RAKE IN FROM THE SUBSCRIBERS AND UPGRADE YOUR SERVER No **, stop ing nerfing ** and fix the goddamn lag. 80% of the eve player base is in highsec so nobody cares about your lag --- Corporations for Highsec pos anchoring. Only a fee of 75 Million ISK. click
Eugenics Progeny	Posted - 2010.06.01 21:49:00 - [195] Quote: 80% of the eve player base is in highsec so nobody cares about your lag ugh I think he was making the point of not nerfing missions and fixing lag.
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2010.06.01 22:26:00 - [196] +1. I've had to relocate from 0.5 agent back to a congested L4 mission hub.
Arctur Vallfar	Posted - 2010.06.01 23:13:00 - [197] Originally by: triafrenum Can I have your stuff? Bah! You beat me to it... ...can I have the stuff he doesn't want?
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2010.06.01 23:24:00 - [198] This change wont get anyone into low sec who already had no intentions of going there. Especially to do missions in lowsec. Only thing this does is create much much more lag as people flock to deep high sec mission hubs, so those sites will have 300+ in local AND all neighboring systems two jumps away will be in 100-150 range. It also punished people who did their research and found high quality agents in 0.5 or 0.6 systems. You had much better pay than cookie cutter folks running missions in Ours and Didoxie, you never heard of this thing called lag. Sure, once in a blue moon agent might send you to lowsec, that's why the reject mission button is there.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.02 01:21:00 - [199] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 02/06/2010 01:22:36 Quote: You're hopeless. But I'll spell it out again Maybe I am hopeless but I am happy and satisfied by several new features. It's you who are wailing since days instead. Quote: Thats a 80% loss of my income. Why would I be content to have an income I had 8mos ago? Would you? No. So STFU How educate. Therefore HTFU yourself or quit, no one has the minimal care for a freeloader yanking stuff killed by others. Quote: If by chance you've never ninja looted salvaged then quit talking out of your ass like you know something I have been teached how to ninja loot by a DR corp mate 10 months ago. One of the juicest things that continuously happened, were the rage and juicy tears in local. Those surpassed the loot value by far. It's days you closely remind these bears. Quote: By the way, has there been any clarification from CCP were they even trying to nerf Level 4's or its just collateral damage? Read their blogs and their posts, the damage is not collateral. It's a designed nerf made to reduce the minerals faucets, reduce mudflation and somewhat pretend to help miners (the insurance change is not exactly going to help them, though). Quote: It also punished people who did their research and found high quality agents in 0.5 or 0.6 systems I did no big search and this agent is decently crowded, he has yet to send me to low sec since the expansion though. If you really did the research and really went to a low crowd agent, you should still be sent in hi sec - as long as the constellation is setup favorably. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.02 02:08:00 - [200] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:13:28 Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:10:45 Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. WOW What the ** do you need? A ing sign? That Dev Blog was what level 5 missions were intended to be. It didn't work out that way for one reason or another but it has now been fixed. You as a player have to accept that and move on. Stop whining *. "Wah...Wah...Wahhhh! I hate Hi-sec LvL5s cause I can't do them!! " JEALOUS! JEALOUS! JEALOUS! 1/ This is supposed to be a Petition for people who agree with it, not disagree. 2/ Sounds like all the Haterz of this thread and LvL5s in Hi-sec are those that chose Mining as a career and actually only wished they could solo a LvL5. DON'T WORRY! I'm sure you'll have the skills.....one day! I solo 10/10 in null moron. Which are more profitable. I have over 60mill skill points. Lone Provider Pator Tech School from 2009.05.15 15:21 to this day. If anything you can't solo a level 5 noob. And the dev blog does state you will need friends to do these and capitals. Maybe thats why all these people are whining about the move to .4 or lower. They don't have friends. But the skills i do have. So before you jump on blood in the water have some **ing skills/truth to back you up.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.02 02:19:00 - [201] Edited by: Goose99 on 02/06/2010 02:20:12 Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:13:28 Edited by: Lone Provider on 01/06/2010 04:10:45 Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: 1OfMany I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only. The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended. WOW What the ** do you need? A ing sign? That Dev Blog was what level 5 missions were intended to be. It didn't work out that way for one reason or another but it has now been fixed. You as a player have to accept that and move on. Stop whining *. "Wah...Wah...Wahhhh! I hate Hi-sec LvL5s cause I can't do them!! " JEALOUS! JEALOUS! JEALOUS! 1/ This is supposed to be a Petition for people who agree with it, not disagree. 2/ Sounds like all the Haterz of this thread and LvL5s in Hi-sec are those that chose Mining as a career and actually only wished they could solo a LvL5. DON'T WORRY! I'm sure you'll have the skills.....one day! I solo 10/10 in null moron. Which are more profitable. I have over 60mill skill points. Lone Provider Pator Tech School from 2009.05.15 15:21 to this day. If anything you can't solo a level 5 noob. And the dev blog does state you will need friends to do these and capitals. Maybe thats why all these people are whining about the move to .4 or lower. They don't have friends. But the skills i do have. So before you jump on blood in the water have some **ing skills/truth to back you up. That's definitely a forum alt, staying in npc for over a year. It's the norm here. As for capitals for lvl5, most have gates that don't allow capitals through. I used to cherry pick missions and do it with a Thanny in a quiet deep lowsec system a long time ago. It slice through lvl5s like hot knife through butter. Clearly not what's originally intended. Carrier eventually got killed, but payed itself several times over by then. The fact is, Tyrannis bug allows lvl5s to be spawn almost entirely in highsec when toons are dumped into low, increase its population. It can be exploited. Simple probability would just spawn mostly lowsec and highsec once in a long while. Tyrannis bug fails no matter how you measure it. It rewards organized exploiters and farmers, while cheating legitimate runners out of their fair share of rare highsec lvl5 spawns.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.02 03:19:00 - [202] Edited by: Ildryn on 02/06/2010 03:20:06 Finally proof that the devs intend to move all level 5 missions to .4 and lower. This is an official dev video log on the entire thing. Dev Video Blog
Some Dewd Some Corp.	Posted - 2010.06.02 05:02:00 - [203] Edited by: Some Dewd on 02/06/2010 05:02:29 OMG u noobs stop crying you carebears, whaaa whaaaaaaa i gots no uber lewts now i make 18m a hour instead of 20m a hour IMMA QUIT EVE OMFG I HATE U!!@!@!@11! get into 0.0 you r tards and make 100x more in a month then in a year of missioning PS: ccp can you get rid of missions in empire? only only allow mining? thanks!!!!
Ghost Wisperer	Posted - 2010.06.02 06:43:00 - [204] In short CCP just successfully ruined playstyle of long term casual players. Those who tell "get into nullsec, or get low sec alliance going" should think a bit - it takes time to organize, it takes time to defend etc etc. It doesnt mix well with play 30 minutes-take 30 minutes break, go suddenly afk cause you have some stuff to do etc.etc. If you are living in your mother's basement dont assume that everyone else is
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.02 06:55:00 - [205] Originally by: Ghost Wisperer In short CCP just successfully ruined playstyle of long term casual players. Those who tell "get into nullsec, or get low sec alliance going" should think a bit - it takes time to organize, it takes time to defend etc etc. It doesnt mix well with play 30 minutes-take 30 minutes break, go suddenly afk cause you have some stuff to do etc.etc. If you are living in your mother's basement dont assume that everyone else is "Ruined playstyle"? Reducing income by 2M per hour? Or because they put people before the choice between moving to an inner system if they don't ever want to risk a low sec assigmnent? That sounds like "somewhat" far fetched. On a related matter, why I did not see you posting for the exactly same years about "long term casual players" who happened to be miners and their profession was rendered worthless by missioning? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.02 07:33:00 - [206] Originally by: Vitamin B12 Originally by: TV Evangelist Quote: USE SOME OF THE MONTHLY úMILLIONS YOU RAKE IN FROM THE SUBSCRIBERS AND UPGRADE YOUR SERVER No **, stop ing nerfing and fix the goddamn lag. 80% of the eve player base is in highsec so nobody cares about your lag You should maybe add up the membership numbers of the 0.0 alliances one day. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always** to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.02 07:42:00 - [207] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Ghost Wisperer In short CCP just successfully ruined playstyle of long term casual players. Those who tell "get into nullsec, or get low sec alliance going" should think a bit - it takes time to organize, it takes time to defend etc etc. It doesnt mix well with play 30 minutes-take 30 minutes break, go suddenly afk cause you have some stuff to do etc.etc. If you are living in your mother's basement dont assume that everyone else is "Ruined playstyle"? Reducing income by 2M per hour? Or because they put people before the choice between moving to an inner system if they don't ever want to risk a low sec assigmnent? That sounds like "somewhat" far fetched. On a related matter, why I did not see you posting for the exactly same years about "long term casual players" who happened to be miners and their profession was rendered worthless by missioning? Surely you're not disputing the obvious fact that mission runners *DESERVE* the best PVE rewards and the least risk are you? Expecting missionrunners to take their turn on the buff/nerf cycle like (for instance) the common filth who mine minerals is nothing less than a BRUTAL ASSAULT on the noble art of running missions in hi-sec. I mean CCP has done nothing but buff missions for the last 5 years, so this 5% nerf represents nothing less than an ORGANISED SCAM IMHO. CCP has steadily increased the rewards and greatly decreased the risks of mission running over the years, and now reversing that - even a little - is just a classic BAIT AND SWITCH.CCP are just GRIEFERS! Nothing less than reporting this malfeasance to the Better Business Bureau will suffice, to be honest. PS: This is CCP's NGE! Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Caarah	Posted - 2010.06.02 08:55:00 - [208] /signed
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 09:22:00 - [209] Originally by: Entgo Ditumi The point is that even if these percentages are accurate, they will change with the agent quality, pirate faction, and skils/techniques of the the pilot running the mission. This isn't something that needs to be proven with "actual data." It's just commonsense. No, the point is that the whiners are throwing around assertions without any shred of evidence, and when people come around and question those assertions with facts, they get attacked for it. If the whiners want to make those assertions, they need to back them up, otherwise they're just a bunch of clueless windbags. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ghost Wisperer	Posted - 2010.06.02 09:24:00 - [210] Originally by: Malcanis Surely you're not disputing the obvious fact that mission runners *DESERVE* the best PVE rewards and the least risk are you? Expecting missionrunners to take their turn on the buff/nerf cycle like (for instance) the common filth who mine minerals is nothing less than a BRUTAL ASSAULT on the noble art of running missions in hi-sec. I mean CCP has done nothing but buff missions for the last 5 years, so this 5% nerf represents nothing less than an ORGANISED SCAM IMHO. CCP has steadily increased the rewards and greatly decreased the risks of mission running over the years, and now reversing that - even a little - is just a classic BAIT AND SWITCH.CCP are just GRIEFERS! Nothing less than reporting this malfeasance to the Better Business Bureau will suffice, to be honest. PS: This is CCP's NGE! So many exclamations, caps and nullsec alliance ticker. How does it feel to spend countless arse-hours doing nothing listening to some jerks on teamspeak ? Oh the thrill of waiting for login command, excitement of shooting the pos, joy of getting up at 4 am to defend a pos. Dont be jealous of other people playing their own game instead of being slaves to some overweight student ~
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.02 09:28:00 - [211] Ssshh, I cant speak now! The whipmaster approaches, and I have to mine 200,000 units of crokite before midnight for the alliance Tyrant or he will take my firstborn! Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 09:32:00 - [212] Originally by: Ghost Wisperer How does it feel to spend countless arse-hours doing nothing listening to some jerks on teamspeak ? Oh the thrill of waiting for login command, excitement of shooting the pos, joy of getting up at 4 am to defend a pos. Dont be jealous of other people playing their own game instead of being slaves to some overweight student ~ Ah the voice of no experience. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.02 09:47:00 - [213] You think I should tell him that I make most of my ISK missioning? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ghost Wisperer	Posted - 2010.06.02 10:09:00 - [214] Originally by: Tippia Ah the voice of no experience. I believe you dont have to eat cow excrements to have opinion about its taste. kugu's forum gives pretty accurate impression about nullsec life.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 10:16:00 - [215] Originally by: Ghost Wisperer I believe you dont have to eat cow excrements to have opinion about its taste. For opinions, no. For experience, understanding, insights, and something resembling facts, yes. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ghost Wisperer	Posted - 2010.06.02 10:25:00 - [216] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Ghost Wisperer I believe you dont have to eat cow excrements to have opinion about its taste. For opinions, no. For experience, understanding, insights, and something resembling facts, yes. Gosh mate, If i were you i would not be posting such things in public forum. Coprophagy is a perversion.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 10:56:00 - [217] Originally by: Ghost Wisperer Gosh mate, If i were you i would not be posting such things in public forum. Coprophagy is a perversion. àand being in a 0.0-alliance is not. This means that you can actually try it and have something more than opinion about it, whereas cowdung will have to remain on an opnion level of knowledge. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ghost Wisperer	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:20:00 - [218] Originally by: Tippia àand being in a 0.0-alliance is not. This means that you can actually try it and have something more than opinion about it, whereas cowdung will have to remain on an opnion level of knowledge. I wont be taking any advice from a person who openly admits that he's eating cowdung. ~
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:35:00 - [219] Originally by: Ghost Wisperer I wont be taking any advice from a person who openly admits that he's eating cowdung. ~ Fine by me. You might want to listen to my advice, though. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.02 11:35:00 - [220] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha "Ruined playstyle"? Reducing income by 2M per hour? Or because they put people before the choice between moving to an inner system if they don't ever want to risk a low sec assigmnent? That sounds like "somewhat" far fetched. Let's be honest VV, it is more than that sum. Have you tried looting some EOM or Mercenary mission? Those 12+ metal scrap you get were, in the past, large guns or modules, so 12+ metal scraps are about 10 millions in minerals removed. Sure, other missions have suffered less (Gurista for example see few metal scraps), but some mission has been moved in the don't do list by this change. And the damned mission list is already too small without making more of them unattractive. The nerfing was done badly as it is uneven.
M'iranna	Posted - 2010.06.02 12:46:00 - [221] Originally by: Malcanis Surely you're not disputing the obvious fact that mission runners *DESERVE* the best PVE rewards and the least risk are you? Expecting missionrunners to take their turn on the buff/nerf cycle like (for instance) the common filth who mine minerals is nothing less than a BRUTAL ASSAULT on the noble art of running missions in hi-sec. I mean CCP has done nothing but buff missions for the last 5 years, so this 5% nerf represents nothing less than an ORGANISED SCAM IMHO. CCP has steadily increased the rewards and greatly decreased the risks of mission running over the years, and now reversing that - even a little - is just a classic BAIT AND SWITCH.CCP are just GRIEFERS! Nothing less than reporting this malfeasance to the Better Business Bureau will suffice, to be honest. PS: This is CCP's NGE! You forgot one thing. Plex prices are now cost 3 times as much as it was 2 years ago.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:06:00 - [222] Quote: Let's be honest VV, it is more than that sum. Have you tried looting some EOM or Mercenary mission? Those 12+ metal scrap you get were, in the past, large guns or modules, so 12+ metal scraps are about 10 millions in minerals removed I am so honest that if you search in the first 2 pages, you should find my post about my feedback about heavy loot + drone missions need a buff in rewards. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:13:00 - [223] Originally by: Some Dewd Edited by: Some Dewd on 02/06/2010 05:02:29 OMG u noobs stop crying you carebears, whaaa whaaaaaaa i gots no uber lewts now i make 18m a hour instead of 20m a hour IMMA QUIT EVE OMFG I HATE U!!@!@!@11! get into 0.0 you r tards and make 100x more in a month then in a year of missioning PS: ccp can you get rid of missions in empire? only only allow mining? thanks!!!! Don't be an idiot. Who do you think buys deadspace mods from you(and me)? Pvpers and lowsec missioners don't use pimpboats. Prices are already dropping, and buy/sell contract gaps increasing, because highsec carebears are hearing about the nerf and putting off buying. Our income is directly tied into empire mission viability. Go back to your hole and use your brain before suggesting something stupid.
Kia Tor	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:22:00 - [224] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Some Dewd Edited by: Some Dewd on 02/06/2010 05:02:29 OMG u noobs stop crying you carebears, whaaa whaaaaaaa i gots no uber lewts now i make 18m a hour instead of 20m a hour IMMA QUIT EVE OMFG I HATE U!!@!@!@11! get into 0.0 you r tards and make 100x more in a month then in a year of missioning PS: ccp can you get rid of missions in empire? only only allow mining? thanks!!!! Don't be an idiot. Who do you think buys deadspace mods from you(and me)? Pvpers and lowsec missioners don't use pimpboats. Prices are already dropping, and buy/sell contract gaps increasing, because highsec carebears are hearing about the nerf and putting off buying. Our income is directly tied into empire mission viability. Go back to your hole and use your brain before suggesting something stupid. This ^^^
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:26:00 - [225] Originally by: Goose99 Don't be an idiot. Who do you think buys deadspace mods from you(and me)? Pvpers and lowsec missioners don't use pimpboats. àunless they fly a (super)capship. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:28:00 - [226] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Goose99 Don't be an idiot. Who do you think buys deadspace mods from you(and me)? Pvpers and lowsec missioners don't use pimpboats. àunless they fly a (super)capship. Yeah, all those moms are gonna fill the gap. They're like... everywhere.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.02 14:42:00 - [227] Originally by: Goose99 Yeah, all those moms are gonna fill the gap. They're like... everywhere. Now that would be a boost to mining. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.02 19:44:00 - [228]
Some Dewd Some Corp.	Posted - 2010.06.03 05:25:00 - [229] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Some Dewd Edited by: Some Dewd on 02/06/2010 05:02:29 OMG u noobs stop crying you carebears, whaaa whaaaaaaa i gots no uber lewts now i make 18m a hour instead of 20m a hour IMMA QUIT EVE OMFG I HATE U!!@!@!@11! get into 0.0 you r tards and make 100x more in a month then in a year of missioning PS: ccp can you get rid of missions in empire? only only allow mining? thanks!!!! Don't be an idiot. Who do you think buys deadspace mods from you(and me)? Pvpers and lowsec missioners don't use pimpboats. Prices are already dropping, and buy/sell contract gaps increasing, because highsec carebears are hearing about the nerf and putting off buying. Our income is directly tied into empire mission viability. Go back to your hole and use your brain before suggesting something stupid. lol i see alot of people just doing normal ratting in 5b+ ships, alot of people faction/officer fit their 0.0 ships i know alot personally and ive killed alot personally. so go back to your hole and use your brain before you say something stupid.
Grayclay Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.06.03 06:44:00 - [230] Boo. Hoo. Hoo.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.03 06:56:00 - [231] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Let's be honest VV, it is more than that sum. Have you tried looting some EOM or Mercenary mission? Those 12+ metal scrap you get were, in the past, large guns or modules, so 12+ metal scraps are about 10 millions in minerals removed I am so honest that if you search in the first 2 pages, you should find my post about my feedback about heavy loot + drone missions need a buff in rewards. You must have used an alt or it must be another thread, nothing similar here that I have found in all the pages so far. Still it is more that a "2 millions/hour" reduction as you claim. BTW, probably there as been some change in the salvage tables too. I don't recall getting 130+ scrapmetals from salvaging in a Gone Berserkers against EOM or 120+ in a Damsel in distress.
Viral Effect Caldari BRAINDEAD Corp	Posted - 2010.06.03 06:57:00 - [232] This gets my vote. I can handle the loot table adjustments since they were affecting global mineral prices. This still doesnÆt mean IÆm happy about it. What I really dislike is the fact that now my agent is trying to send me courier missions to low sec! Are you crazy? Do they think IÆm going to low sec for 185K isk? No chance. Get rid of all missions given to low sec. High sec agents should only give missions to high sec.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.03 08:20:00 - [233] Originally by: Venkul Mul You must have used an alt or it must be another thread, nothing similar here that I have found in all the pages so far. Let me Eve-Search It For You Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha 1) Some missions heavily relied on loot. The bounties should be tweaked to reflect the higher than average toll those missions paid to the nerf. 2) Some M0 could probably still be dropped, ie 1 M0 turret per mission just to give the feeling it still happens. <snip> 3) The tags, they seem somewhat too few. 4) Drone missions should yield more. They were quite bad before, now they could really use a little tip. I think this was honest and probably more far fetched than the mass of disorganized cries seen in the last days. It's quite more possible for a developer to read and consider a simple list of observations than having him read irate explosions of nerds rage asking for public execution. Quote: Still it is more that a "2 millions/hour" reduction as you claim. The 2M / hour were related to another thread stating L4 income = 18M per hour (not written by me so I don't have links for this). I did not even talk about how 18M per hour is "conservative" to say it kindly, I wasted too many posts on that topic and gave up on convincing them anyway. Therefore I just stated the flat amount in proportion of the claim, that is 11% of less income. This percentage will be higher for the missions I quoted above, lower for others. It was a "give an idea" number, it'll take months before some Kerfira-alike guy who loves to take precise accounts will post the actual statistically relevant amounts. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Zuretul Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.03 08:53:00 - [234] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It was a "give an idea" number, it'll take months before some Kerfira-alike guy who loves to take precise accounts will post the actual statistically relevant amounts. Wich are wrong since that dude pulls the LP income from tinfoilhat. I can do 200 missions, track everything, and then add LP number to 10 000 so your ISK/hour is something like 140 M ISK/hour. Sure you can trade and wait but that doesn't descripe the average carebear playing hello kitty online and fights against those scary mindless NPC's.
Liqsquid	Posted - 2010.06.03 09:10:00 - [235] I just want more Isk per hour, so hell I'll sign and will not be ashamed to admit it How dare they Nerf my mission cash! ( I mine too so how about a petition for that as well while we are at it? )
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.03 09:18:00 - [236] Originally by: Zuretul Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It was a "give an idea" number, it'll take months before some Kerfira-alike guy who loves to take precise accounts will post the actual statistically relevant amounts. Wich are wrong since that dude pulls the LP income from tinfoilhat. If he did, they wouldn't be as accurate as they are. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.03 09:26:00 - [237] Quote: Wich are wrong since that dude pulls the LP income from tinfoilhat LP is irrelevant in this topic, drops are. I also keep some loose stats about what I do, despite my lowly Maels (used to be T1 guns fitted too), I get more than 18M per hour even without ever selling a single LP. Quote: Sure you can trade and wait but that doesn't descripe the average carebear playing hello kitty online and fights against those scary mindless NPC's I have yet to understand this: in WoW when they visibly nerfed hunters and they revolted ("we are 15% of your paying player base WE decide how you should make the rules of your game), Blizzard answered them to GTFO. In EvE, a MMO supposedly for a more advanced player base, how can you expect CCP to lower their standards to cater to people who CBA to use the freely provided in game facitilies , like IE the market? I mean, if I was a moron who CBA chooses not to use basic game features, why would a sandbox game follow my whims? Because I'd be the self appointed HOLY PAYING CUSTOMER? If CCP was driven by the highest bidder, wouldn't they have turned EvE in some other (and in my eyes, vastly lesser) game since years ago? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Some Dewd Some Corp.	Posted - 2010.06.03 10:18:00 - [238] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 03/06/2010 09:27:49 Quote: Wich are wrong since that dude pulls the LP income from tinfoilhat LP is irrelevant in this topic, drops are. I also keep some loose stats about what I do, despite my lowly Maels (used to be T1 guns fitted too), I get more than 18M per hour even without ever selling a single LP. Quote: Sure you can trade and wait but that doesn't descripe the average carebear playing hello kitty online and fights against those scary mindless NPC's I have yet to understand this: in WoW when they visibly nerfed hunters and they revolted ("we are 15% of your paying player base WE decide how you should make the rules of your game), Blizzard answered them to GTFO. In EvE, supposedly a MMO for a more advanced player base, how can you expect CCP to lower their standards to cater to people who CBA to use the freely provided in game facitilies, like IE the market? I mean, if I was a moron who CBA to use basic game features, why would a sandbox game follow my whims? Because I'd be the self appointed HOLY PAYING CUSTOMER? If CCP was driven by the highest bidder, wouldn't they have turned EvE in some other (and in my eyes, vastly lesser) game since years ago? OMG THIS!!!!! good job man. and seriously guys stop crying
Cyan Cure	Posted - 2010.06.03 10:57:00 - [239] What about manufacturers? You're flooding the market with meta 0 equipment, selling on a whim and completely ****ing up the economy, all that's worth doing are ships, drones or ammunition. Mission running in empire means close to zero risk, there are no money sinks, all you do is get richer. This system is broken and this little fix is what the game needs.
Lyn Kishin	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:03:00 - [240] Originally by: Some Dewd OMG THIS!!!!! good job man. and seriously guys stop crying Of course this also applies to "elite PvP'ers" crying about a lack of victims in low sec.
Nagal Sombre	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:11:00 - [241] This petition is ridiculous, the only thing you can ask for is to put back the challenge lv5 mission in high sector afforded, thats the only realitic and honest thing this patch nerfed and shouldn't have. Note that i'm talking about the challenge, and only that, i'm certainly not talking about the income or whatever attached to it.
Stovo kor Firebird Squadron	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:17:00 - [242] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 13:48:34 Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed Whoa whoa you equated mission running and FUN Serious ?? Good ISK from a low risk endeavor is the prime motivator to put yourself through the mission grind for extended periods. If you want the + 1 voting and some indication of support you need to post in Assembly Hall forums [Proposal ] Posting here might be construed as outside the proper channel FYI Expansions can also balance in-game mechanics, does not always have to be 'expand' ________________________________________________ Check us out : Sleeper Pimps ________________________________________________
Misha Moon Frog Morton Industries Anuran Origin	Posted - 2010.06.03 11:30:00 - [243] Edited by: Misha Moon on 03/06/2010 11:32:16 I don't generally agree with the tone of our first poster. I do a load of other things in EvE than mission. If they removed them all together, I would deffo sulk for a while, but I would find the game fun all the same. The cool thing about EvE for me is the multitude of options. Now, in my opinion missions have been nerfed. Quite a lot. After a little while of getting used to this fact, it probably wont feel as bad. What I am wondering, though, is whether CCP honestly mostly wanted to nerf the mineral output from mission onto market, as I can see that as a worthy agenda, really - or whether they also wanted to nerf missions as a profession or a quick isk injection? If the latter is not the case, then I would like to request that missions get a little bit of something else that has not to do with market - be it a Tier 5-10 Personal Effects box off some of the ships or a slight increase in bounties or something along these lines. Keep it to something which wont directly interfere with the market if that is the problem. I appreciate the need for some people to be all the way pve in their game and pay for gametime with iskies - it doesn't have to be either or if some of the reward is sold to NPCs. The comment from someone about mission runners can solo a MMO is invalid for the reason that mining is even more soloable already, if you have an alt in an Orca or something like that, so unless you want PVP-only EvE that's not really a good argument. Also, CCP can change the balance so profit from minerals go mostly to miners, which is all good by me, but we have to remember that 1) price of named loot will most likely drop, and has already, and 2) if mission runners and people who occasionally run missions have less buying force, the balance will, in my opinion, change too much.
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.03 19:47:00 - [244] Bump
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.03 20:23:00 - [245] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: In short CCP just successfully ruined playstyle of long term casual players. Those who tell "get into nullsec, or get low sec alliance going" should think a bit - it takes time to organize, it takes time to defend etc etc. It doesnt mix well with play 30 minutes-take 30 minutes break, go suddenly afk cause you have some stuff to do etc.etc. If you are living in your mother's basement dont assume that everyone else is "Ruined playstyle"? Reducing income by 2M per hour? Or because they put people before the choice between moving to an inner system if they don't ever want to risk a low sec assigmnent? That sounds like "somewhat" far fetched. On a related matter, why I did not see you posting for the exactly same years about "long term casual players" who happened to be miners and their profession was rendered worthless by missioning? Post 205 this thread in reply to post 204. Originally by: VV Originally by: VM Still it is more that a "2 millions/hour" reduction as you claim. The 2M / hour were related to another thread stating L4 income = 18M per hour (not written by me so I don't have links for this). It appear you are wrong. It was in this thread and given as an hard fact. Originally by: VV I did not even talk about how 18M per hour is "conservative" to say it kindly, I wasted too many posts on that topic and gave up on convincing them anyway. Therefore I just stated the flat amount in proportion of the claim, that is 11% of less income. This percentage will be higher for the missions I quoted above, lower for others. It was a "give an idea" number, it'll take months before some Kerfira-alike guy who loves to take precise accounts will post the actual statistically relevant amounts. Without all this stuff you neglected to put in the original post your statement was " Reducing income by 2M per hour" and nothing different. Originally by: VV 1) Some missions heavily relied on loot. The bounties should be tweaked to reflect the higher than average toll those missions paid to the nerf. 2) Some M0 could probably still be dropped, ie 1 M0 turret per mission just to give the feeling it still happens. <snip> 3) The tags, they seem somewhat too few. 4) Drone missions should yield more. They were quite bad before, now they could really use a little tip. 1) I agree with that, the reduction was uneven for different missions. Removing 12+ large modules (an average of 800K each) from a mission (EOM, mercenaries, Damsel, ecc.) and maybe 1 from another (Guristast) is a bad way to balance things. I hate ratting, but I suspect that ratters getting Serpentis NPC are royally screwed as a large percentage of the Sepentis payout was the minerals in the loot. 2) that is more a cosmetic thing than a form of payout balancing. 3) the tags seem to be the same number than before. CCP idea was 1 piece of scrapmetal or 1 tag for one removed module, so nothing special there. For ratters tags have almost no value, to sell them you need to return in empire. 4) maybe drone missions could drop some of the drone special loot again, so that augmented and integrated drones will see some use. Originally by: VV Originally by: VM Let's be honest VV, it is more than that sum. Have you tried looting some EOM or Mercenary mission? Those 12+ metal scrap you get were, in the past, large guns or modules, so 12+ metal scraps are about 10 millions in minerals removed I am so honest that if you search in the first 2 pages, you should find my post about my feedback about heavy loot + drone missions need a buff in rewards. Originally by: VV Let me Eve-Search It For You Let's see: thread name: Kinda overdoing it As I did say: "You must have used an alt or it must be another thread," and it turn out it was another thread. Next time if you mean first 2 pages of the forum be more clear.
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.04 17:09:00 - [246] back to the top
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.04 19:30:00 - [247] Quote: It appear you are wrong. It was in this thread and given as an hard fact The number is right, that's what matters. Or shall I remind I took all of 3 seconds to find my own reference you worked so hard to (not) find? Quote: As I did say: "You must have used an alt or it must be another thread," and it turn out it was another thread. Next time if you mean first 2 pages of the forum be more clear. 1) It was in the first 2 pages, ofc with these days of traffic it took a short time to go "down". It's why I tend to use EvE-Search, it got a specific "search by author" function. 2) Sometimes I post with the telephone, I can't write bibles. Quote: Without all this stuff you neglected to put in the original post your statement was " Reducing income by 2M per hour" and nothing different. It's not "neglect". It's "CBA". Those who want to understand, did. The others just see what they want to see, I can't repeat everything at every post otherwise I'd have to make 3 pages long posts at a time. Quote: 2) that is more a cosmetic thing than a form of payout balancing Since the nerf consists in removing exactly those items, going beyond "cosmetic" would kinda contratict the expansion, don't you think? Quote: 3) the tags seem to be the same number than before. CCP idea was 1 piece of scrapmetal or 1 tag for one removed module, so nothing special there. If that was the idea, it's not working. I recall getting lots of large modules, the numeric sum of metal scraps + tags covers maybe half of those. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
debbie harrio	Posted - 2010.06.04 21:32:00 - [248] Originally by: Mr Kidd You're hopeless. But I'll spell it out again. Yes I started salvaging as a ninja. And that was great. Then I realized a significant portion of the value in missions is in loot. So I looted and salvaged. Tweaking my techiques and what I went after (large wrecks, specific items) my income skyrocketed. 8mos and a 6 fold increase in income over salvaging only I'm screwed. Now that large wreck loot is nerfed it effectively makes ninjaing looting and salvaging worthless to me and anyone else with a clue. Thats a 80% loss of my income. Why would I be content to have an income I had 8mos ago? Would you? No. So STFU. Could I limit my loss and still ninja. Sure. But only an idiot loses the larger percentage of their overall income and continues doing the same damn thing. For Christ's sake use some common sense will you? If by chance you've never ninja looted salvaged then quit talking out of your ass like you know something. Best post on here, A Bin Diver crying. Lol.
Kerr avonn Minmatar Standard By 10	Posted - 2010.06.04 21:41:00 - [249] Edited by: Kerr avonn on 04/06/2010 21:45:41 Edited by: Kerr avonn on 04/06/2010 21:43:21 I think C1-3 wormholes are the new lvl4 missions, Hit and miss at times but can earn as much as lvl4's if you salvage as you go and just keep an eye out for certain probes you can earn a tidy sum. Its a little riskier and eventually you will get pinged and lose your Pve fitted ship to T3 gangs and nasty nasty pirate's that like to pod your ass. But thats offset by the chances of being caught by the cost of the ship your using, and that to me = a viable solution in a b/c fitted for w/h's I have lots of lvl4 agents and they are all saying the same... lowsec. It means one thing....Adapt. Quote: 'mr miyagi' the karate kid.....If done right, no can do defence
Objectless Hatred Caldari colonial 1	Posted - 2010.06.05 04:51:00 - [250] bump...
Shin Dari	Posted - 2010.06.05 10:39:00 - [251] As a casual L4 highsec mission runner I make about 10 to 15 Mil/hour. Non-casual players (grinders) will make more per hour no matter what they do. I need these L4s to prepare me for WH, without them I would have likely quite EVE months ago. But I am glad that this expansion nerfs ninjas. But that can be done better. If CCP doesn't want people to reprocess loot then make sure that loot contain less meta 0-2, as I then to keep or sell meta 3-4.
AlastorTheLost	Posted - 2010.06.05 11:35:00 - [252] Edited by: AlastorTheLost on 05/06/2010 11:35:11 What do we want ?????? high sec lvl 5's .....how do we want them ???? Without any nerf.................. When do we want them ??? NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW roll it back back back to hell i say............. \o/ \| / \
Milla Jovobitch	Posted - 2010.06.06 06:53:00 - [253] CCP, you broke it - you fix it. Turn all space into low-sec or bring the missions back to hi-sec; I don't care how you fix the balance but now missions don't work. Everyone is unhappy now.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.06 07:51:00 - [254] Originally by: Milla Jovo*** CCP*, you broke it - you fix it. Turn all space into low-sec or bring the missions back to hi-sec; I don't care how you fix the balance but now missions don't work. Everyone is unhappy now. First weekend after months I had nothing to do, I missioned from 8.40am to 3.30am of the next day (this morning). Never sent to low sec once and - with 200 in local - after the mini-patch I have never sent more than 1 jump away. It was 2 right after Tyrannis and before the mini-patch. CCP broke those who stayed in 600 in a system, I don't see it being a bad thing. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read* http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
AlastorTheLost	Posted - 2010.06.06 12:08:00 - [255] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Milla Jovo*** CCP**, you broke it - you fix it. Turn all space into low-sec or bring the missions back to hi-sec; I don't care how you fix the balance but now missions don't work. Everyone is unhappy now. First weekend after months I had nothing to do, I missioned from 8.40am to 3.30am of the next day (this morning). Never sent to low sec once and - with 200 in local - after the mini-patch I have never sent more than 1 jump away. It was 2 right after Tyrannis and before the mini-patch. CCP broke those who stayed in 600 in a system, I don't see it being a bad thing. Dudes i agree i used to be in game doing from missions , wars , pvp , wh explos , gang pvp , manufacturing and all activities that they are trying to tell that we are not doing as mutch as they like ..... This days i only log in game for aprox 20 mins total .....i used to enjoy a day i had nothing to do just by playing the way i wanted eatch time now i really dont feel like it as a lot of ppl i know that wait there isks to be depleated and just move to something else ..... Its terrible not to be able to see what's happening from outside the company wise interests and this will be there downfall time will double prove it Step Number one 1.See what you done 2.Change it P.S. Dont try to tell ppl what they should do ....grow up or fail.....
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.06 16:43:00 - [256] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 13:48:34 Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed You still make as much ISK of a mission as you did before. I have verified and re verified this dozens of times. The difference is in the distribution of the loot, so if you were only taking the good loot before the expansion you wont make the same ISK as you used to. Thats too bad you're not smart enough to buy a scanner and find the new good loot. Its a rough sandbox out there. This is clearly a signature.
Asuri Kinnes Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.06.06 18:53:00 - [257] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha If CCP was driven by the highest bidder, wouldn't they have turned EvE in some other (and in my eyes, vastly lesser) game since years ago? Introduction of hi-sec, concord, system security level, player security level, lofty nerf, Missions... Yeah, actually, CCP did that years ago... Because when Eve was a "pure" pvp game, it topped out at 30K subs and 10K online. I have lost the page, but somewhere there is a dev-blog (or interview with someone @ CCP, CEO?) in which it was stated that "Eve became financially viable @ 50K subscriptions" Since then, as CCP has developed "safer" space, the population keeps going up... Face it guys, people who want to go to low-sec/0.0 go. People who don't want to go, are going to resent any attempt to push them there (no matter how you dress it up). If taking the large mods out (that were reprocessing into huge quantities of minerals) was done in an effort to buff mining, I personally would like to know if that "buff" has been largely negated by the insurance nerf? One other point, if mineral reprocessing was the issue (and I think it was) why didn't ccp just go through and drop the reprocess values of those large mods into worthlessness? Only two reasons I can think of; a) reprocess amounts are somehow coded directly to BPO/BPC tables (i.e. - changing the reprocess amounts would literally change the requirements to build t1/t2 turrets), or, b) CCP couldn't be arsed to spend the developer time going through and changing the numbers for however many modules that would have been... Seems to me that changing the reprocess results would have been a more elegant solution, instead of removing the modules all together. As it is now... Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist NO!
ma perke	Posted - 2010.06.06 19:19:00 - [258] tyrannis sucks. name your ship 'tyrannis sucks' and see how many people like it! tyrannis is the same for ccp what vista was for microsoft
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.06 21:13:00 - [259] Quote: Introduction of hi-sec, concord, system security level, player security level, lofty nerf, Missions... Yeah, actually, CCP did that years ago... Because when Eve was a "pure" pvp game, it topped out at 30K subs and 10K online. I have lost the page, but somewhere there is a dev-blog (or interview with someone @ CCP, CEO?) in which it was stated that "Eve became financially viable @ 50K subscriptions They sold and keep selling the game using the PvP theme. If they start failing their own selling point and transform EvE in "badger online" where the most dangerous encounter you can have is meeting a Retriever, EvE's not going to compete with the new inflow of idiot-theme park sci-fi games. Newer, fluffier, more interactive multimedia..., decent UI... what sets EvE apart is not the PvE grinding, it's actually one of its worst executed features. In any case: 1) 300k are 6 times above the 50k "viability thresold". If they need to promote their "fame" by sacrificing 10% of them, they probably won't flinch. 2) They effectively removed _1_ kind of drop off _1_ class of ships. There's really little substance to slit wrists over this. Quote: If taking the large mods out (that were reprocessing into huge quantities of minerals) was done in an effort to buff mining, I personally would like to know if that "buff" has been largely negated by the insurance nerf? The insurance is a fail safe mechanism. It is meant to activate only when the economy is broken and oversaturated, it's not meant to be "always on". If CCP did a good estimation, whole game inflow should be slightly lower than outflow and past some months the accrued reserves should dry up till minerals prices start going up. If this won't happen, miners won't be saved by insurance, they'll just get the "welfare payment" like in the last years. This means new nerfs will be needed until inflow drops enough. Quote: tyrannis sucks. name your ship 'tyrannis sucks' and see how many people like it! tyrannis is the same for ccp what vista was for microsoft Why, did you have to pay to get a license of "Tyrannis Home Edition"? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
vlanarus	Posted - 2010.06.07 00:08:00 - [260] If you don't run missions, you have no place posting on this forum, since missions don't concern you....I want the nerf reversed!!!!!
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2010.06.07 02:34:00 - [261] I don't play since L4 have been nerfed. Just log, change skill, log out. /signed.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.06.07 02:41:00 - [262] kk in trueth I think more people are **ed about the change that **es the most people off the most should be reversest. Thats the one sending high sec pilots into low sec and low sec pilots into high sec. And this is funny as they both hate it for the same reasons. hahah High sec dont want to go to low sec becouse they camp the gate's and dont wish to loss his pimp mobile. Low sec pilots dont want to do high sec becouse they know its easyer to just stay in low sec then it will be for them to get back into low sec pass the same gate camps :) I also want high sec level 5 missions back again becouse all level 4's get boring and the level 5's give missioning corps a real reason to do missions together. Then theres the BS loot drops. I realy dont have much problems with this myself. I hope it helps the minners but plz lets get something in return for them BSloots not scrapmetal and the much never seen added tags. ince the tags and low scrapmetal to were ever you have the tags at now like what 0.009% inc? Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Doctor Aibolit	Posted - 2010.06.07 07:04:00 - [263] I do not understand why CCP nerfs carebears. Is it too difficult just let them pay for game and just play their missions? If somebody wants PVP just go to low-sec or fight in FW. What is the problem? Or CCP wants to reduse carebears to reduce server lags? :)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.07 07:41:00 - [264] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 07/06/2010 07:42:42 Quote: I do not understand why CCP nerfs carebears. Is it too difficult just let them pay for game and just play their missions You only skipped about 3-4 pages full of threads about why it happened? The minerals coming from their loot screwed other carebears (miners on top) and they lagged systems by all clumping in the same agent. Both factors have been nerfed. The other carebears pay as good money as L4 missioneers do and are at least as abundant in numbers. Edit: at a second thought, it's rare a missioneer has more than 2 accounts, miners / traders etc need easily 3-4. They also matter to CCP. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
NiiKleagh	Posted - 2010.06.07 09:30:00 - [265] Edited by: NiiKleagh on 07/06/2010 09:35:53 I'm going to be honest with you all: I used to run lvl 5's in high sec. The income was great, and the risk was low. Tyrannis came along and made me unhappy, but I finally took that offer to join a 0.0 corp/alliance that my buddy kept making and, well, it REALLY isn't as bad as I remembered it being back in 2005. I moved my CNR down as well. So: Stop whining. The gains that can be made in 0.0 with either mining or ratting still outweigh that of missioners IF the corp and alliance you join has its **** together. Now that systems can have upgrades installed to increase the volume or types of mining and NPC's that appear it really is going to be alright. Moreover, the -constant- 'plexes' that appear in an established system mean that, at any and every given time, a player with a cruiser, BC, BS, or a carrier will always find stuff to shoot at (with the chance of highly valuable spawns) in that home system. It is, in all honesty, as if having missions constantly available to you, but without the time expense of docking and undocking (until you need ammo). You just need to get over that fear of losing a ship. With proper intel the only ship you're going to lose in 0.0 will be a PvP ship anyway. My conclusion: While the complainers may think they have a valid concern here, my new 0.0 trial (I was ready to leave if it sucked) has proven otherwise. It becomes apparent to anyone who made the move after the patch that the people complaining really haven't spent the time to get to know the game, and are really only complaining because they don't know anything else.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.06.07 12:26:00 - [266] Originally by: NiiKleagh Edited by: NiiKleagh on 07/06/2010 09:38:48 I'm going to be honest with you all: I used to run lvl 5's in high sec. The income was great, and the risk was low. Tyrannis came along and made me unhappy, but I finally took that offer to join a 0.0 corp/alliance that my buddy kept making and, well, it REALLY isn't as bad as I remembered it being back in 2005. I moved my CNR down as well. So: Stop whining. The gains that can be made in 0.0 with either mining or ratting still outweigh that of missioners IF the corp and alliance you join has its **** together. Now that systems can have upgrades installed to increase the volume or types of mining and NPC's that appear it really is going to be alright. Moreover, the -constant- 'plexes' that appear in an established system mean that, at any and every given time, a player with a cruiser, BC, BS, or a carrier will always find stuff to shoot at (with the chance of highly valuable spawns) in that home system. It is, in all honesty, as if having Lvl 2, 3, 4 and ... almost lvl 5 ... missions constantly available to you, but without the time expense of docking and undocking (until you need ammo). You just need to get over that fear of losing a ship. With proper intel the only ship you're going to lose in 0.0 will be a PvP ship anyway. My conclusion: While the complainers may think they have a valid concern here, my new 0.0 trial (I was ready to leave if it sucked) has proven otherwise. It becomes apparent to anyone who made the move after the patch that the people complaining really haven't spent the time to get to know the game, and are really only complaining because they don't know anything else. The only thing that has became apparent is deadspace mod prices going down, gap between buy and sell contracts going up, and it's getting harder to sell. Apparently, people who buy those and making pimpboats are now holding off purchase. But if you've actually been plexing, you'd know that. You didn't make all that up on the spot to make a point, did you?
gavin gor	Posted - 2010.06.07 13:29:00 - [267] were seeing a lot of low sec areas now camped by 10 + players alliance has lost 2 new players to low sec gate camps and there not coming back its not just in gall/caldi space its min and amarr as well story line running has ground to a halt as the 2 areas that need delivery are camped everyday by large gangs industrial s don't stand a chance put things back the way it was ime also thinking of quitting the game ccp are forcing players out of the game
Steve Celeste Caldari Inglorious-Basterds	Posted - 2010.06.07 13:38:00 - [268] Originally by: gavin gor were seeing a lot of low sec areas now camped by 10 + players alliance has lost 2 new players to low sec gate camps and there not coming back its not just in gall/caldi space its min and amarr as well story line running has ground to a halt as the 2 areas that need delivery are camped everyday by large gangs industrial s don't stand a chance put things back the way it was ime also thinking of quitting the game ccp are forcing players out of the game
Kerr avonn Minmatar Standard By 10	Posted - 2010.06.08 06:35:00 - [269] Edited by: Kerr avonn on 08/06/2010 06:41:54 Originally by: Doctor Aibolit Is it too difficult just let them pay for game and just play their missions? Could it be that CCP are after mission runners real money? I run mission's for 1-3 days and thats my P.L.E.X sorted for the next month. Been over a year since I last paid for subs. And since i bought eve in a box on the promise of a custom ship only to find out it was just a gallente shuttle, CCP aint gettin any more subs. EDIT..I dont endorse the return of pre tyrannis missions, its a dog eat dog universe and i have the skills to manage. For those that dont...HTFU!
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.08 07:12:00 - [270] Edited by: TheBlueMonkey on 08/06/2010 07:12:43 I've not run missions in ages because they're so incredibly dull but here's what I kinda get from all the forum folks. "moan moan mona ninja salvage thieves moan moan moan" Tyrannis "loots and salvage are now worthless and I just get bounties moan moan moan" Is this a case of the only thing worse than not getting what you want is getting what you want? Or have I missed something? Although I'll agree, destroying one profession, namely ninja salvaging, is rather annoying but egh, it's an mmo, don't like constant updates and balancing? play the x series. -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Canteen Charlie	Posted - 2010.06.08 08:00:00 - [271] vote +1
Jamie Banks Gallente Wasted and Still Mining	Posted - 2010.06.08 08:05:00 - [272] Originally by: Mindless Drones Oh no, CCP **ed up, everyone is gonna leave EVE in a hissy fit cos you nerfed mah lvl4's Originally by:** CCP 60,453 pilots: The new EVE PCU record If you don't like EVE, YOU CAN GEEEEEET OUT. _____________________________ EVE - Everyone vs. Everyone Join in-game Channel 'Aussies' Check my Bio in-game for good deals on Invention Packs
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.08 11:42:00 - [273] Originally by: NiiKleagh Edited by: NiiKleagh on 07/06/2010 09:38:48 I'm going to be honest with you all: I used to run lvl 5's in high sec. The income was great, and the risk was low. Tyrannis came along and made me unhappy, but I finally took that offer to join a 0.0 corp/alliance that my buddy kept making and, well, it REALLY isn't as bad as I remembered it being back in 2005. I moved my CNR down as well. So: Stop whining. The gains that can be made in 0.0 with either mining or ratting still outweigh that of missioners IF the corp and alliance you join has its ** together. Now that systems can have upgrades installed to increase the volume or types of mining and NPC's that appear it really is going to be alright. Moreover, the -constant- 'plexes' that appear in an established system mean that, at any and every given time, a player with a cruiser, BC, BS, or a carrier will always find stuff to shoot at (with the chance of highly valuable spawns) in that home system. It is, in all honesty, as if having Lvl 2, 3, 4 and ... almost lvl 5 ... missions constantly available to you, but without the time expense of docking and undocking (until you need ammo). You just need to get over that fear of losing a ship. With proper intel the only ship you're going to lose in 0.0 will be a PvP ship anyway. My conclusion: While the complainers may think they have a valid concern here, my new 0.0 trial (I was ready to leave if it sucked) has proven otherwise. It becomes apparent to anyone who made the move after the patch that the people complaining really haven't spent the time to get to know the game, and are really only complaining because they don't know anything else. Congratulations on checking the facts for yourself, and not just crying about a change. EVE needs more players like you. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always** to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.08 16:48:00 - [274] Edited by: Esa Dahli on 08/06/2010 16:49:25 tl;dr It's not about null, but low sec. Missions exist, therefor are an intrinsic gaming element, therefor should be fun for paying customers... especially those that make the game viable. Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: NiiKleagh I'm going to be honest with you all: I used to run lvl 5's in high sec. The income was great, and the risk was low. Tyrannis came along and made me unhappy, but I finally took that offer to join a 0.0 corp/alliance that my buddy kept making and, well, it REALLY isn't as bad as I remembered it being back in 2005. I moved my CNR down as well. So: Stop whining. (..) Congratulations on checking the facts for yourself, and not just crying about a change. EVE needs more players like you. It never was about going to null sec or not, it was about the missions being nerfed and moving to low sec. Your 'personal epiphany' changes nothing to this. Let's stay on topic, hmmkay? No amount of nerfing to missions justifies any argument to 'do something else' or 'just move to null!', simply because if CCP includes it in the game, it's meant to be used by people. PVE is inherently part of the game, stop whining about how EVE is supposed to be PVP. It maybe have started out with a PVP only vision, but it failed miserably. PVE is what makes the game viable. In fact, I'm the reason it exists and you should be glad I'm here, stop belittling us. If mission running comes to a point where no one is cool with it -nevermind the 'lag balance fix' doesn't actually fix the balance at all- then there is something wrong with it, however you want to turn the ball. CCP should either drop missions entirely, or keep it fun in high sec, or completely revamp the low sec mechanic alltogether.
marie claude Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.08 17:03:00 - [275] vote +1000000 read my sig stop nerfing everything!!! ------------------------- Quantum Fail Expansion
Canteen Charlie	Posted - 2010.06.09 05:10:00 - [276] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: NiiKleagh Edited by: NiiKleagh on 07/06/2010 09:38:48 You just need to get over that fear of losing a ship. With proper intel the only ship you're going to lose in 0.0 will be a PvP ship anyway. My conclusion: While the complainers may think they have a valid concern here, my new 0.0 trial (I was ready to leave if it sucked) has proven otherwise. It becomes apparent to anyone who made the move after the patch that the people complaining really haven't spent the time to get to know the game, and are really only complaining because they don't know anything else. This is annoying to read. My alt lives in 0.0 and I've run this corp now for almost a year and a half and there is a very large segment of players that DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN 0.0. It's the way it is. I enjoy it on my combat pilot but don't want to on my empire pilot. I want to relax and play for a couple of hours, no politics, not responsibilities of defending a sovereign pocket, just playing with corp members, having drinks and keeping to ourselves. Level 5's were an extension of that play style that tens of thousands of players in Eve enjoy and are a continuation of what CCP has built in its level structure. Thinking that your customers will like chocolate when they say they live vanilla is foolish imo. Make 0.0 better, make low sec better, make empire better and let us decide where want to stay, rather than push us where we don't want to go. I've yet to see our corp numbers rise as fast with the prospect of being in 0.0 as they do with the staunch exclamation that we are not going into 0.0 and thats with a good 100 hundreds of recruiting under my belt.
ThorBank	Posted - 2010.06.09 07:49:00 - [277] tldr but from the topic +1 anyway
Asuri Kinnes Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.06.10 02:29:00 - [278] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: NiiKleagh Edited by: NiiKleagh on 07/06/2010 09:38:48 I'm going to be honest with you all: I used to run lvl 5's in high sec. The income was great, and the risk was low. Tyrannis came along and made me unhappy, but I finally took that offer to join a 0.0 corp/alliance that my buddy kept making and, well, it REALLY isn't as bad as I remembered it being back in 2005. I moved my CNR down as well. So: Stop whining. The gains that can be made in 0.0 with either mining or ratting still outweigh that of missioners IF the corp and alliance you join has its **** together. Now that systems can have upgrades installed to increase the volume or types of mining and NPC's that appear it really is going to be alright. Moreover, the -constant- 'plexes' that appear in an established system mean that, at any and every given time, a player with a cruiser, BC, BS, or a carrier will always find stuff to shoot at (with the chance of highly valuable spawns) in that home system. It is, in all honesty, as if having Lvl 2, 3, 4 and ... almost lvl 5 ... missions constantly available to you, but without the time expense of docking and undocking (until you need ammo). You just need to get over that fear of losing a ship. With proper intel the only ship you're going to lose in 0.0 will be a PvP ship anyway. My conclusion: While the complainers may think they have a valid concern here, my new 0.0 trial (I was ready to leave if it sucked) has proven otherwise. It becomes apparent to anyone who made the move after the patch that the people complaining really haven't spent the time to get to know the game, and are really only complaining because they don't know anything else. Congratulations on checking the facts for yourself, and not just crying about a change. EVE needs more players like you. Many people have -0- interest in 0.0, and it has nothing to do with missioning, mining, exploration, industry or trade (although those are a part of it). Personally I'm in 0.0, and 0.0 is nothing w/o good people (which I'm happy to say I've found) and I'm enjoying the game. People running lvl 4's in hi-sec have no effect on me (only way they might is if too much isk was coming into game, and deflating the value of the isk there is... I don't see rampant inflation). Keep getting those nice meta 4 mods, i needs maor! Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist NO!
Azure Moonlight Atomic Core Industries and Science	Posted - 2010.06.10 05:07:00 - [279] Guess he is right. Since the patch I pretty much quit running missions altogether. Just no fun being send around through the whole constellation or better even some damn low sec system, because you have all your belongings stored in a 0.5 system with your 10.0 agent, you have been running missions with for ages. Its just crappy and I dont see the point. Also I liked the cheap module loot you got on missions, was always fun to sort the more valuable ones out and put into your limited cargo.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.10 05:57:00 - [280] Damn. Lets make it simple. If you are stupid, EVE isn't the game for you. If you can't adjust and adapt to change, EVE isn't the game for you. Leave. I pay money to play too and my opinion counts as much as anyone elses in that reguard. Those that can think and look at the game as a whole, I believe their opinion counts more than a moron's. Who wants idiots leading this game anyway, really? So you want your loot back? Sure, bend miners back over and **'em some more. Cause that will make mineral prices collapse more than they already are.. making the whole point of blitzing over looting even more profound. Why, insurance change. So then what.. change insurance back? Right. Back to the same old problems and stagnant economy that was slowly killing EVE's foundation. You are more likely to get ganked with it in your easy to scan marauders n pimpboats then than now. Ninja looting. Tough **. Ninja salvaing.. less people doing it, more valuable it becomes. Derr-derrrrr basic economics 101. Having to do lvl 4s in low-sec. You don't have to do a damn thing. Move your ass to a safer spot if your current isn't working out. There are plenty of options to continue doing them in the safety of high sec at high frequency. Cause if it is casual fun and ease you obviously, then take the very minor LP/reward hit. Otherwise more risk = more reward. lvl 5s.. the top of the mountain for mission runners. Then its.. the damn boring thing every day with no real change as you cap your battleship to perfection, the End. You leave. Or you can make more doing them in low-sec, the mission itself is no harder.. and if you had friends or could swindle deals with people.. you can still do them in low-sec with a lil extra adrenline of unknown. Oh the horror, the horror! EVE was made better as whole for the community. Cracked a few eggs on the way.. oh well. Those eggs would have broke anyway cause they are too fragile for this game. Goodbye whiners.. you wouldn't have made it very far anyway, either cause you're too stupid, a coward, or couldn't unleash your full potential and the full potential of EVE. Way to fail. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Fettered Soul	Posted - 2010.06.10 06:48:00 - [281] Some people mention that mission runners can buy PLEX very easily. And it is bad for CCP. Just think. Price of PLEX is [earned money of mission runners] / [available PLEXs] CCP legitimated buying PLEXs for ISK. So after Tyrannis nothing changes with CCP income. Market will regulate PLEX price. Price will be little bit lower. Maybe 200kk per PLEX
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.10 08:17:00 - [282] Quote: Damn. Lets make it simple. If you are stupid, EVE isn't the game for you. If you can't adjust and adapt to change, EVE isn't the game for you. Leave. I pay money to play too and my opinion counts as much as anyone elses in that reguard. Those that can think and look at the game as a whole, I believe their opinion counts more than a moron's. Who wants idiots leading this game anyway, really? So you want your loot back? Sure, bend miners back over and **'em some more. Cause that will make mineral prices collapse more than they already are.. making the whole point of blitzing over looting even more profound. Why, insurance change. So then what.. change insurance back? Right. Back to the same old problems and stagnant economy that was slowly killing EVE's foundation. You are more likely to get ganked with it in your easy to scan marauders n pimpboats then than now. Ninja looting. Tough **. Ninja salvaing.. less people doing it, more valuable it becomes. Derr-derrrrr basic economics 101. Having to do lvl 4s in low-sec. You don't have to do a damn thing. Move your ass to a safer spot if your current isn't working out. There are plenty of options to continue doing them in the safety of high sec at high frequency. Cause if it is casual fun and ease you obviously, then take the very minor LP/reward hit. Otherwise more risk = more reward. lvl 5s.. the top of the mountain for mission runners. Then its.. the damn boring thing every day with no real change as you cap your battleship to perfection, the End. You leave. Or you can make more doing them in low-sec, the mission itself is no harder.. and if you had friends or could swindle deals with people.. you can still do them in low-sec with a lil extra adrenline of unknown. Oh the horror, the horror! EVE was made better as whole for the community. Cracked a few eggs on the way.. oh well. Those eggs would have broke anyway cause they are too fragile for this game. Goodbye whiners.. you wouldn't have made it very far anyway, either cause you're too stupid, a coward, or couldn't unleash your full potential and the full potential of EVE. Way to fail. U mad?
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.10 09:34:00 - [283] Edited by: Esa Dahli on 10/06/2010 09:36:23 Originally by: TV Evangelist Quote: HURRR DUURRRR GURGLE NGRAAAH. Way to fail. U mad? Insane in the membrane more like it. Not adaptive either. Anyway, people seems to think mission runners should adapt and do different things. Kind of defeats the purpose of the missions mechanic doesn't it. Those same people are missing the point: mission running is broken; in this case adapting is a workaround for the real problem.
McPod	Posted - 2010.06.10 10:44:00 - [284] One idea would be to have the corp you are working for offer supplemental insurance. lets say once you reach 8 standing the corp will offer you low-sec insurance on your ship. or just redo lvl 5s and make them battlecruiser material, hard like lvl 3-4 but in lowsec. gimme some feedback. im a noob after all.
PhantomMajor Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.10 11:38:00 - [285] hey it looks liek all you guys who were moaning about ninja salvagers got your wish, coz now there isn't anything worth stealing in lvl 4's any more. my first eve video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ROr6bYLOXY
Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.10 12:03:00 - [286] Edited by: Milo Caman on 10/06/2010 12:03:13 Originally by: Lone Provider TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Your stuff, can I haz it? --- Originally by: Sarina Berghil I think the reason your guns didn't work is because you're trying to hunt squirrels with Howitzers.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.10 15:33:00 - [287] Originally by: PhantomMajor hey it looks liek all you guys who were moaning about ninja salvagers got your wish, coz now there isn't anything worth stealing in lvl 4's any more. Well, I was not moaning since I always found it a fun mini-game to play with the ninja (got some nice loads of free T2 drones in the process). Still the above is not true, even in the less congested Minnie space. Actually they are now coming with cruisers, because they believe ships will stay unlooted. So, what before Tyrannis was usually a Probe only with salvager, now is often a cruiser that goes red and gets the items as well. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.10 16:10:00 - [288] I'm not mad.. still waiting for someone to produce some worth while counter points to my statement now. Is 'U mad?' the best there is? Heard it twice now, and nothing else other than me not being adaptive? Ha. Looks like I got two kids firing back at what I said with their slingshots of 'I know you are, but what am I?'. How is missioning broke again? Still does the same old boring thing. The only change is it makes people quit sooner rather than later when they are faced with the real EVE. Every MMO changes, nerfs, and balances. Everyones tears here are pathetic. So like I said, if you can't handle it.. Leave. Ain't no one keeping you here to play a game you all supposedly hate now, cause you make a lil less doing your missions AWWWWWWWwwwwwww.. a little less isk is such a terrible thing. OMG the world is falling! My wallet growing is what I equate fun being! I can't, no I can't go further into high sec to safely to do missions with a less quality agent, thats not fun cause I earn less! It really isn't about the missions being fun! I must fly a battleship my entire life! Nothing else will do! I can't grow beyond that! Who wants a carrier when a pirate can take it! Whaaaaaaa-whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It is what it is. Why do you think there have been so many people calling you petitioners babies, whiners, salty tears are so good, etc. You are what you are, and proudly displaying it here. How most of you are doing it, really illustrates how disabled you are at handling other, more harsh aspects of EVE and avoid them. Don't blame me for discribing what some of you are.. if it offends you, you really only got yourself to blame. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.10 16:34:00 - [289] Edited by: Esa Dahli on 10/06/2010 16:36:12 Originally by: Umega blah blah I'm not mad, blah blah I ignored alls yours argumentzes. hurr durr mission system is already boring, you just quite sooner - drool gnaaawr I'm better than you because I don't like missions so I don't do em hawr hawr you, I'm describing it ololollol... don't blame me blahblah... Narcissistic much? You are still missing the point however. Aside from the fact you you apparently don't know people have different tastes (it's true, look at the people at restaurants: they eat different things!), if the mission system doesn't deserve our attention because it is boring then it shouldn't be there in the first place. It's content people pay for, why shouldn't it be fun. And if it really shouldn't why is it part of the game again? You also missed the argument for fun mission running (read: running in high sec) that people run missions for a break, relaxation without responsibilities, for casual gaming aside from running corps, ninja looting, scanning, what not. Mining is even more boring, do you suggest people shouldn't do that either? What if miners were forced to go into low sec... would you insist they are losers as well? I hope you are trolling, else I really pity you.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.06.10 16:56:00 - [290] Originally by: Esa Dahli Edited by: Esa Dahli on 10/06/2010 16:36:12 Originally by: Umega blah blah I'm not mad, blah blah I ignored alls yours argumentzes. hurr durr mission system is already boring, you just quite sooner - drool gnaaawr I'm better than you because I don't like missions so I don't do em hawr hawr you, I'm describing it ololollol... don't blame me blahblah... Narcissistic much? You are still missing the point however. Aside from the fact you you apparently don't know people have different tastes (it's true, look at the people at restaurants: they eat different things!), if the mission system doesn't deserve our attention because it is boring then it shouldn't be there in the first place. It's content people pay for, why shouldn't it be fun. And if it really shouldn't why is it part of the game again? You also missed the argument for fun mission running (read: running in high sec) that people run missions for a break, relaxation without responsibilities, for casual gaming aside from running corps, ninja looting, scanning, what not. Mining is even more boring, do you suggest people shouldn't do that either? What if miners were forced to go into low sec... would you insist they are losers as well? I hope you are trolling, else I really pity you. Are you Masochist? I got the point. You still completely ignored everything I said, cause if you didn't.. you'd see I understand perfectly well. Its about isk, how much with very lil effort and risk involved. Thats all there is to it. Nothing more. Don't got to pity me, I enjoy the game immensely. Perhaps it should be me pitying the people that whine and cry and say how bad this game is, yet continue to pay money for the mental beating they are putting on themselves by crying about a game they continue to play. Rather bizarre behavior, don't you think? Casual play huh.. then there should be no problem moving to a different high sec spot, right? Should be no problem joining a corp that does lvl 5s in low sec, right? Quite a number exist. Both perfectly easy things to do that equate to still doing the casual missioning. But come on, we both know it is making absurd amounts of isk with next to no risk. Thats the reason for the crying, tears, and petition. Its a 'me me me me' cry with no thought of the rest of EVE. So why call me the Narcissitic, huh? ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.10 19:05:00 - [291] Originally by: Umega Originally by: Esa Dahli Edited by: Esa Dahli on 10/06/2010 16:36:12 Originally by: Umega blah blah I'm not mad, blah blah I ignored alls yours argumentzes. hurr durr mission system is already boring, you just quite sooner - drool gnaaawr I'm better than you because I don't like missions so I don't do em hawr hawr you, I'm describing it ololollol... don't blame me blahblah... Narcissistic much? You are still missing the point however. Aside from the fact you you apparently don't know people have different tastes (it's true, look at the people at restaurants: they eat different things!), if the mission system doesn't deserve our attention because it is boring then it shouldn't be there in the first place. It's content people pay for, why shouldn't it be fun. And if it really shouldn't why is it part of the game again? You also missed the argument for fun mission running (read: running in high sec) that people run missions for a break, relaxation without responsibilities, for casual gaming aside from running corps, ninja looting, scanning, what not. Mining is even more boring, do you suggest people shouldn't do that either? What if miners were forced to go into low sec... would you insist they are losers as well? I hope you are trolling, else I really pity you. Are you Masochist? I got the point. You still completely ignored everything I said, cause if you didn't.. you'd see I understand perfectly well. Its about isk, how much with very lil effort and risk involved. Thats all there is to it. Nothing more. Don't got to pity me, I enjoy the game immensely. Perhaps it should be me pitying the people that whine and cry and say how bad this game is, yet continue to pay money for the mental beating they are putting on themselves by crying about a game they continue to play. Rather bizarre behavior, don't you think? Casual play huh.. then there should be no problem moving to a different high sec spot, right? Should be no problem joining a corp that does lvl 5s in low sec, right? Quite a number exist. Both perfectly easy things to do that equate to still doing the casual missioning. But come on, we both know it is making absurd amounts of isk with next to no risk. Thats the reason for the crying, tears, and petition. Its a 'me me me me' cry with no thought of the rest of EVE. So why call me the Narcissitic, huh? There we go, now you're getting coherent. The original topic was about all nerfs, including the one sending mission runners into low sec. I don't care I get less ISK running missions, I understand the reasons and I agree, but forcing runners into mission hubs is as unnecessary as it is ineffective at solving the problem it is meant for. I say revert that part of the nerf.
SirRalph	Posted - 2010.06.10 19:15:00 - [292] Mission runners.. Hah... Noobs and crybabies... Adapt or die ahhahaahaha!
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.10 20:00:00 - [293] Quote: I'm not mad.. still waiting for someone to produce some worth while counter points to my statement now. Is 'U mad?' the best there is? Heard it twice now, and nothing else other than me not being adaptive? Ha. Looks like I got two kids firing back at what I said with their slingshots of 'I know you are, but what am I?'. How is missioning broke again? Still does the same old boring thing. The only change is it makes people quit sooner rather than later when they are faced with the real EVE. Every MMO changes, nerfs, and balances. Everyones tears here are pathetic. So like I said, if you can't handle it.. Leave. Ain't no one keeping you here to play a game you all supposedly hate now, cause you make a lil less doing your missions AWWWWWWWwwwwwww.. a little less isk is such a terrible thing. OMG the world is falling! My wallet growing is what I equate fun being! I can't, no I can't go further into high sec to safely to do missions with a less quality agent, thats not fun cause I earn less! It really isn't about the missions being fun! I must fly a battleship my entire life! Nothing else will do! I can't grow beyond that! Who wants a carrier when a pirate can take it! Whaaaaaaa-whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It is what it is. Why do you think there have been so many people calling you petitioners babies, whiners, salty tears are so good, etc. You are what you are, and proudly displaying it here. How most of you are doing it, really illustrates how disabled you are at handling other, more harsh aspects of EVE and avoid them. Don't blame me for discribing what some of you are.. if it offends you, you really only got yourself to blame. He mad.
Azzail	Posted - 2010.06.11 08:56:00 - [294] Originally by: TV Evangelist Quote: I'm not mad.. still waiting for someone to produce some worth while counter points to my statement now. Is 'U mad?' the best there is? Heard it twice now, and nothing else other than me not being adaptive? Ha. Looks like I got two kids firing back at what I said with their slingshots of 'I know you are, but what am I?'. How is missioning broke again? Still does the same old boring thing. The only change is it makes people quit sooner rather than later when they are faced with the real EVE. Every MMO changes, nerfs, and balances. Everyones tears here are pathetic. So like I said, if you can't handle it.. Leave. Ain't no one keeping you here to play a game you all supposedly hate now, cause you make a lil less doing your missions AWWWWWWWwwwwwww.. a little less isk is such a terrible thing. OMG the world is falling! My wallet growing is what I equate fun being! I can't, no I can't go further into high sec to safely to do missions with a less quality agent, thats not fun cause I earn less! It really isn't about the missions being fun! I must fly a battleship my entire life! Nothing else will do! I can't grow beyond that! Who wants a carrier when a pirate can take it! Whaaaaaaa-whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It is what it is. Why do you think there have been so many people calling you petitioners babies, whiners, salty tears are so good, etc. You are what you are, and proudly displaying it here. How most of you are doing it, really illustrates how disabled you are at handling other, more harsh aspects of EVE and avoid them. Don't blame me for discribing what some of you are.. if it offends you, you really only got yourself to blame. He mad. But he's right.
Olga Vapolga	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:06:00 - [295] vote +1
Dunkle Lars Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.11 09:15:00 - [296] Looking at the countless posts about the so called mission "nerf" and the tears involved I am happy to announce that I was indeed one of the persons who suggested this change to lvl 4 missions to CCP at Fanfest '09. I'm happy they listened to me :) However what I dont understand is: what is the nerf? 90% ( including the OP here) complains, that missioning is not fun any more. Why is that? Because they removed loot? that must mean people only find it fun to loot beacuse the missions are the same. That means you can move to 0.0 and loot there.. It's even better to loot rats in 0.0 than in missions. Or is it that some missions are moved to lowsec? well that's easy to solve. Move to Dodixie. Lvl 4 ql 13 command agent for Fed Navy there. No lowsec systems around. Problem solved. Or is it the fact that you now have to fly a few more jumps to get to the specific mission? Well I might just have been unlucky but almost all of the time I had to fly 1-3 jumps to said mission system. Same as now. So no problems there. I can't find any other things that have changed so please explain them to me Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned all reason is like giving medicine to the dead
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.11 11:00:00 - [297] Edited by: Esa Dahli on 11/06/2010 11:05:21 Originally by: Dunkle Lars 90% ( including the OP here) complains, that missioning is not fun any more. Why is that? Because they removed loot? No, for me at least. They fixed the chain of demand/supply across the market and miners now have a solid and essential role they were supposed to have. However some people do complain about the fact that the loot replacement -extra signias- didn't show up and it's just scrap scrap scrap. The majority of harsh opinions here however are related to the loot nerf part (Like umega's rant), because this triggers the hatebears to remind us we should simply adapt. But this is really annoying since only a minority seems to actually mind this loot:isk ratio nerf. It's hard to discuss other parts with all the shouting. Originally by: Dunkle Lars Or is it that some missions are moved to lowsec? well that's easy to solve. Move to Dodixie. Lvl 4 ql 13 command agent for Fed Navy there. No lowsec systems around. Problem solved. While it seems that way, here's why this 'nerf' is stupid to begin with: it doesn't solve what it was supposed to solve: more widely spread out players and reduced lag. This clearly doesn't work since as you suggest everyone now moves to high sec hubs. This migration is also part of the problem of this particular 'nerf', since there are side effects that make living up there harder or 'less fun': It's overcrowded. It's crowded, while vast amounts of high sec space around the low sec borders are deserted, unused. Originally by: Dunkle Lars Or is it the fact that you now have to fly a few more jumps to get to the specific mission? This is very annoying (especially if you dual run missions for salvage and loot), even more so because it serves no purpose. The idea is again to spread out players more and reduce lag and space occupation. However, what really happens is that this particular 'nerf' magnifies the problem of the 'lowsec nerf'. Since you're still not safe two/three jumps away from low sec people go to even higher sec, towards the mission havens like dodixie.
Dunkle Lars Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.11 11:18:00 - [298] Regarding the talk about CCP wanting to spread people more out that has indeed been one of CCPs main issuses for some time. However I tend to lean to the idea that CCP recognises, that some people ( mainly missioneers in this case) just wont spread out and therefore tries to enmass them in a few systems, run these systems on seperate nodes, like jita and in fleetfights that have been announced. That way they might need to "micro-manage" only a few systems now instead of the 10+ hubs there where before the patch. but that is of course, speculation It should however be noted that CCP have stated for years now, that their ultimate goal is to get as many players into null-sec, as possible. Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned all reason is like giving medicine to the dead
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2010.06.11 12:02:00 - [299] Originally by: Missm Uppet Originally by: Flipout what did they change in regards to missions? The damsel no longer takes her clothes off for you when rescued from kruul. /noooooo's !!!!one11! ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.06.11 17:53:00 - [300] As CCP Zumurgist says here: Originally by: CCP Zumurgist When level 5 missions were first introduced back in 2007, it was intended that these missions take place only in low- and null-sec systems. Because of a longstanding bug in our mission distribution system, however, some agents would occasionally offer these missions in high-security systems instead of low-sec or 0.0 only. This issue was corrected in Tyrannis as part of a larger fix to distribution, as listed in the patch notes here: http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=205#fixes ù ôThe load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.ö However, while that particular distribution bug was fixed, agents may still occasionally send you to a 0.5 system for a level 5 mission. This quirk is being looked into; once it has been resolved, level 5 missions always occur in low- or null-sec systems. Finally L5's are getting fixed to be what they were ALWAYS intended to be! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Raeben	Posted - 2010.06.11 21:51:00 - [301] +1. I get my spare cash from L4 missions and it's not even worth it now.
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.11 22:23:00 - [302] To all of you whining about the level 4 missions being sent into low most of the time....well it happens. To all of you arguing with me about the level 5 missions. working as intended And i know someone posted the same link already. I just had to give you whiners the finger anyway.
The Constructerer Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.12 01:48:00 - [303] I gotta say that the changes are annoying. Isk per hour is really cut when every mission is sent out of system. I agree with changing to allow more diversity in mission locations (i.e. not every one in your agent's system), but having every mission run 1+ jumps out by default is not a good change.
Amanda Eidolo Adamantine Resolve	Posted - 2010.06.12 03:24:00 - [304] The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s**they are. So what if they only make 13m/hour AFK mining Veldspar in their Hulks? It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested. Since when was this game about rewarding the shiftless? Who says miners should be earning more than they do at the moment in Empire? So what if Tritanium isn't worth what some random head says it should be worth? It's a fair income relative to the work, skill training time and ISK required to do it. It's as much of a joke as these PI fanbois thinking they can just AFK their days away and still make killa scrilla. that. Pretty sad that CCP think it's what their player base wants. And some random got who suggested it to CCP at some point in the past doesn't count as 'player base'. Crowd Control Productions: Proud Recipients of the 2010 "*** Our Customers Right Off" Award. Detect a powerful stench of USI. -------- ¦
Quagnar	Posted - 2010.06.12 12:52:00 - [305] Once again, those who don't like the change are right! I have a player in my Corp named Vradon. He is by far one of the oldest characters in Eve. He beta tested the game and I have not seen a Character older. He has more skill points and has done more PVP in 0.0 than anyone posting here. He agrees that the change is Bovine Manure. Thats Bull Sh!! for all you 0.0 players. Miners who make alot of isk do it by macro mining, CCP should put a stop to that. Mission runners , like pvp players are the only ones at thier key boards actively playing the game. What does a low sec player care if a lvl 5 is in high sec every once and a while, other than this would mean less players to gank at gates or in missions. Once again a real world company that cares nothing of the opinons of the majority of its customer base. I think we should protest, all mission runners should gather in one system and cause so much lag that the system crashes.
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.12 14:55:00 - [306] Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are. You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell?
Asuri Kinnes Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.06.12 15:47:00 - [307] Originally by: Ildryn I just had to give you whiners the finger anyway. ,,l,, Right back atcha' sweatpea! Originally by: Esa Dahli Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s***they are. You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell? Mining is the eve equivalent of picking vegetables... Boring and repetitive. So how well paid are the 'pickers again? Macros are the ultimate winners of any mining buff that does not include something* to make the operator interact w/the game. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist NO!
Voith	Posted - 2010.06.12 15:56:00 - [308] CCP is addressing the wrong issue, the problem isn't 0.0 vs LowSec vs HiSec, it is that Caladri ships makes PvE Facerolling easy.
Kephael Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P	Posted - 2010.06.12 16:15:00 - [309] Originally by: Esa Dahli Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s****they are. You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell? Empire mining is about the least profitable profession in the game. __________________________________________
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.12 21:31:00 - [310] Edited by: Esa Dahli on 12/06/2010 21:32:19 Originally by: Kephael Originally by: Esa Dahli Originally by: Amanda Eidolo The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s***they are. You idiot, that's not being lazy, that's doing the most boring shyte work that you wouldn't do. That's why it pays well: it's how the market works... supply/demand ring any bell? Empire mining is about the least profitable profession in the game. Exactly*, that's what the nerf is supposed to fix! Less minerals from m0 loot, better price for minerals. Also, the example of real world vegetable picking doesn't apply in Eve: in RL this job is for the less educated, or students, which is a phenomenon not present in the Eve economy (anyone can basically do anything even with low skills). A better comparison would be oil rig operators, now that pays well.
dosperado Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2010.06.13 00:57:00 - [311] Nearly every transport mission with my highsec lvl4 agent is to lowsec now. IS THIS INTENDED CCP? People will do missions on much fewer agents now to avoid the lowsec missions! This is not a solution CCP!...Those systems get overcrowded more easily. I reduced my EVE playtime drastically because of that lowsec missions stuff. FIX THAT .) ____________________ Security Status No.#1
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.13 15:35:00 - [312] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 13/06/2010 15:35:39 Quote: The main point of umbrage I take at these changes is that Empire miners are not being treated like the lazy s***they are. So what if they only make 13m/hour AFK mining Veldspar in their Hulks? It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested. The changes are to make mining the best mission to mine and not being half as good as "mining" reprocessed M0. This does not matter with the actual income the least, if anything a raise in miner ISK/hour is a consequence (and not the real CCP aim) of overall overabundance being somewhat diminished (just somewhat). Why a 900M worth of ship + implants 16M SP miner should mine half* as good as a 4 months old guy in a T1 mods, T1 BS worth about 100M? Because that's what I measured when I was doing both of the activities. Also, you could as well use a mirror on yourself: - Empire dweller and sturdly anchored there - Shiftless (half of the whines are about having to leave the _1_ mission system) - It's a lazy, easy career path So, by your own words, "the payment should be proportional to the effort invested". Basically you should deserve 25M per hour, not 35 50 or whatever. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.06.13 16:27:00 - [313] Quote: It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested. ...Is a hisec missionrunner really posting this?
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.06.13 17:31:00 - [314] Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/06/2010 17:31:50 The hi-sec missions frequently going into low-sec issue is being looked into: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1334641&page=1#1 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Finally, we are aware of the problems players are currently facing with level 1-4 mission distribution as a result of the aforementioned load balancing fix. While all missions are intended to have a chance of occurring in a nearby low-/null-security system, we are aware of the disproportionate rate at which this is now occurring. The matter is being examined. This is a separate issue from that noted above, and it has no bearing on the intended low-/null-sec system restriction of level 5 missions. CCP Molock and GM Nythanos ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:33:00 - [315] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: It's a lazy, easy career path to take in EVE and the payment should be proportional to the effort invested. ...Is a hisec missionrunner really posting this? That is priceless. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Crispy Chuck	Posted - 2010.06.13 19:54:00 - [316] I will give my +1 here. Only good thing to do in high sec now is 24/7 macro mining and market scam, since its not goind to get fixed soon, huh ? Btw ccp, instead of saying working as intended, start fixing as expected : ]
knentil	Posted - 2010.06.14 00:59:00 - [317] <Will not Sign!! I am thankfull for this nerf, as I now have time to complete MORE missions.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.06.14 01:56:00 - [318] Mybe this is a fix for nija salvagers/looters. CCP is making it so Mission Runers realy just bliz there by not caring about loot and salvage. Just one way to look on the bright side :) Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Amanda Eidolo Adamantine Resolve	Posted - 2010.06.14 08:51:00 - [319] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Why a 900M worth of ship + implants 16M SP miner should mine half as good as a 4 months old guy in a T1 mods, T1 BS worth about 100M? Because that's what I measured when I was doing both of the activities. Are you daft? You must be. - Where do you get this magical 900m figure from? - What kind of proportion of Empire miners do you think actually have bought that stupidly overpriced 700m mining implant? - Who actually needs to sit at the keyboard the entire time they are earning their ISK out of the two characters you've mentioned above? - Who puts in more effort, and work? - Who contributes more overall to the EVE economy? If you think it's the 'the miner' you are incorrect. Also: Mining in Empire = *gotry, so deal with it. The only risk comes from suicide crews which is not exactly part of what I think EVE's designers had in mind when they were developing all this and doing the balancing on such. Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where? Your Score: Originally by:** Vaerah Vahrokha Also, you could as well use a mirror on yourself: - Empire dweller and sturdly anchored there - Shiftless (half of the whines are about having to leave the _1_ mission system) - It's a lazy, easy career path So, by your own words, "the payment should be proportional to the effort invested". Basically you should deserve 25M per hour, not 35 50 or whatever. 1) When have I, personally, ever said that I am upset about having to jump out-of-mission-system? I actually like it as it breaks the monotony. Don't you put words in my mouth. Don't even think of saying "oh well I was talking about some1 3ls3" because that's not how we do it in English and I know you have a grasp enough of it to realise this. Your score: 2) Empire dweller? Yes, as of up until today and not by choice. I was, believe it or not, living in Scalding Pass for a good 4 months and before that living in Derelik lowsec for the 3 months beforehand. We came back to Empire to reform our Corporation and now, well - off to 0.0 again. Your score: 2a) Sturdly isn't even a word - but I do know what you mean and yet again you're making assumptions about that which you have no right to; I always have had and always will have an Empire Jump Clone for when I need a break from lowsec/0.0. Your score: 3) You are implying that running L4 missions is a lazy, easy career path? Ok, true to a degree. However, that's a problem CCP need to address with Shield tanking and Caldari ships. Want to know what happens if I get lazy and don't pay absolute attention to 90% of L4 missions I run in my Paladin? It either pops or I warp out screaming ** with my ship in flames. Ergo, I pay attention and actually work** for my Empire ISK. Your score: Thusly, I have destroyed your paper tiger arguments - care to develop any more for me to shoot down in flames? Or you want to stop shiptoasting and biomass your character now while you at least have some semblance of dignity remaining? Epic Failquake with you at the epicentre. -------- ¦
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.14 09:19:00 - [320] Originally by: Amanda Eidolo Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where? The miner. Really, if you've sunk multiple billions into your mission-running setup, then the chances of losing it outside of a gank are nil unless you're thoroughly incompetentà but then that's the same kind of risk an incompetent miner would face with the same level of equipment. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Sephar Sephiroth	Posted - 2010.06.14 09:24:00 - [321] Originally by: Amanda Eidolo Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Why a 900M worth of ship + implants 16M SP miner should mine half as good as a 4 months old guy in a T1 mods, T1 BS worth about 100M? Because that's what I measured when I was doing both of the activities. Are you daft? You must be. - Where do you get this magical 900m figure from? - What kind of proportion of Empire miners do you think actually have bought that stupidly overpriced 700m mining implant? - Who actually needs to sit at the keyboard the entire time they are earning their ISK out of the two characters you've mentioned above? - Who puts in more effort, and work? - Who contributes more overall to the EVE economy? If you think it's the 'the miner' you are incorrect. Also: Mining in Empire = *gotry, so deal with it. The only risk comes from suicide crews which is not exactly part of what I think EVE's designers had in mind when they were developing all this and doing the balancing on such. Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where? Your Score: Originally by:** Vaerah Vahrokha Also, you could as well use a mirror on yourself: - Empire dweller and sturdly anchored there - Shiftless (half of the whines are about having to leave the _1_ mission system) - It's a lazy, easy career path So, by your own words, "the payment should be proportional to the effort invested". Basically you should deserve 25M per hour, not 35 50 or whatever. 1) When have I, personally, ever said that I am upset about having to jump out-of-mission-system? I actually like it as it breaks the monotony. Don't you put words in my mouth. Don't even think of saying "oh well I was talking about some1 3ls3" because that's not how we do it in English and I know you have a grasp enough of it to realise this. Your score: 2) Empire dweller? Yes, as of up until today and not by choice. I was, believe it or not, living in Scalding Pass for a good 4 months and before that living in Derelik lowsec for the 3 months beforehand. We came back to Empire to reform our Corporation and now, well - off to 0.0 again. Your score: 2a) Sturdly isn't even a word - but I do know what you mean and yet again you're making assumptions about that which you have no right to; I always have had and always will have an Empire Jump Clone for when I need a break from lowsec/0.0. Your score: 3) You are implying that running L4 missions is a lazy, easy career path? Ok, true to a degree. However, that's a problem CCP need to address with Shield tanking and Caldari ships. Want to know what happens if I get lazy and don't pay absolute attention to 90% of L4 missions I run in my Paladin? It either pops or I warp out screaming ** with my ship in flames. Ergo, I pay attention and actually work** for my Empire ISK. Your score: Thusly, I have destroyed your paper tiger arguments - care to develop any more for me to shoot down in flames? Or you want to stop shiptoasting and biomass your character now while you at least have some semblance of dignity remaining? Epic Failquake with you at the epicentre. The butt hurt is great in this post. FATALITY!
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.14 10:15:00 - [322] Made 300M in straight ISK, plus a bunch of LP (didn't count exactly how many because I was p. drunk by the end, about 150-180k I think?) running hi-sec missions yesterday. I dunno, that seems like quite a lot of ISK for perfectly safe hi-sec PvE. So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty? PS It turns out that it's OK to reject missions you dont like as long as you dont overdo it. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Kenny Dalglish	Posted - 2010.06.14 10:48:00 - [323] Edited by: Kenny Dalglish on 14/06/2010 10:48:24 Originally by: Ildryn http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1334641&page=7&sid=341720268working as intended It's working as intended, so that explains why they are about to change it again.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.14 10:55:00 - [324] Originally by: Malcanis So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty? My HAM Gila has no range problems in AE4; 800mm ACs outrange it by farà àso yeah. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Sephar Sephiroth	Posted - 2010.06.14 10:56:00 - [325] Originally by: Malcanis Made 300M in straight ISK, plus a bunch of LP (didn't count exactly how many because I was p. drunk by the end, about 150-180k I think?) running hi-sec missions yesterday. I dunno, that seems like quite a lot of ISK for perfectly safe hi-sec PvE. So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty? PS It turns out that it's OK to reject missions you dont like as long as you dont overdo it. Turns out if you run 33 ish missions at 5500 LP a mission, those figures are about right, but wait 33 missions! REALLY?! Added into this equation is that you never get the best missions back to back so lets assume you got some randoms like Smuggler Interception etc which means you could have done even more missions to make that ... nice figure. So that means 10M a mission? Also sounds about right ... Think the whole problem here is that you think that this is wrong? Ill admit im a sub 10M SP character and it takes me nearly an hour to finish AE or even GE for that matter, but I cant dream of getting 300M in a single day, and the higher SP chars out there run with 3 accounts to get those missions done faster. So thats 33x3 times more likely that you might get unlucky and lose a faction fitted T3 or CNR or marauder vs macro mining ... Gee, reward vs effort vs chance of losing said ships ... yea I think its fine.
Quagnar	Posted - 2010.06.14 23:10:00 - [326] It has come to my attention from inside sources, that the reason for the nerf on lvl 5 missions was made as to stop the players from paying with isk to play rather than paying cash. When they gave us the option of paying to play with isk, profits fell, because it was easy to earn the isk needed by playing , say for 4 hours rather than 8 for instance. Its all about money folks, now what do you think of it all......
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2010.06.14 23:19:00 - [327] Originally by: Quagnar It has come to my attention from inside sources, that the reason for the nerf on lvl 5 missions was made as to stop the players from paying with isk to play rather than paying cash. When they gave us the option of paying to play with isk, profits fell, because it was easy to earn the isk needed by playing , say for 4 hours rather than 8 for instance. Its all about money folks, now what do you think of it all...... 0/10. PLEXes are bought using real money; it doesn't matter if you guy a plex with isk or pay outright, CCP still gets the cash.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.15 00:06:00 - [328] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2010 00:13:19 Quote: Are you daft? You must be Are you rude? You must be. All I see is a failrage with lots of emo (ticons). Quote: - Where do you get this magical 900m figure from? Hulk + T2 fittings + 1 Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade + HX-2 Highwall + Michi's Excavation Augmentor. Before you spew one of your boutades, it's all stuff suggested in the very mining guide everyone doing it "for real" has followed since years. I even got a decent 40M shield (pew pewed) but when I got back in hi sec it was quite redundant (and suicide gank friendly) to keep it so I sold it. Quote: - What kind of proportion of Empire miners do you think actually have bought that stupidly overpriced 700m mining implant? Why do you care? Anyone cries foul if anyone gets Nomads, Crystals or anything for their improvement? Or are miners supposed to be second rate, the lesser ghetto, "LOL worthless, just take +1 INT implant and DIAF"? Quote: - Who puts in more effort, and work? It's more effort and "work" (in the bad sense) to active mine with split laser cycles than L4 missioning. Otherwise the pay is so abysmal you can as well install a bot and let it go. Quote: - Who contributes more overall to the EVE economy? In a perfect world, miners contribute to the very stuff you have your ass sit upon and flying. Missioneers contribute at... ehm... getting money for killing pointless NPCs? Besides competing with other EvE professions that is. Quote: If you think it's the 'the miner' you are incorrect. Also: Mining in Empire = *gotry, so deal with it. The only risk comes from suicide crews which is not exactly part of what I think EVE's designers had in mind when they were developing all this and doing the balancing on such. I have mined outside of empire for months, guess what it's worthless everywhere. It's just different degrees of worthless, when everything is tanking since months. Highly worthless with low risk, sligthly worthless with higher risk. Totally worse in low sec with the highest risk. Quote:** Any L4 mission can result in a multi-billion ISK loss and there are dozens of ways this can happen - not even factoring in suicide ganks - so who risks more what when why and where? I have yet to have any of my mission ships to be even locked. On the contrary I have nice records of people trying to suicide gank my Hulks, despite staying in deep end of nowhere systems there's always someone who wants to try a defensless kill. Quote: When have I, personally, ever said that I am upset about having to jump out-of-mission-system? You have joined the crying mob. Unless you state your differences (like now), you are part of the mob. Also, you and your scores, you can put them where the sun does not shine. YOU post the typical oversimplified portrait of a category and then when someone does THE SAME WORDS with you (so same, they are copy-pasted), you start picking it up? So what, you are not empire dweller? Who gives a toss, you also portray miners as empire dwellers while there's a good number outside of it. I dare say there's TONS of miners risking their neck in WHs nowadays (my next destination, if I don't manage to re-enter my 0.0 corp) than deadspace fit missioneers. Quote: So yeah now I'm thinking of getting a machariel so I wont keep rejecting AE 4 (angels are kind of dull to kill with a Nightmare). Do 800mm ACs work pretty well or do I need arty? With 800s it's 10 minutes TOPS the first room (being very pessimistic here), a tiny longer the second. In total (bonus room excluded) like 35-45 mins, this with a Mael, not a Mach (which is well better). - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Voith	Posted - 2010.06.15 01:20:00 - [329] Lets stop dealing with multi-billionaires and officers/deadspace/whatever fittings, and start dealing more with average players: A guy with about 20 million SP in his chosen area, and about a 250-500 Million Isk in assets. Now in Hi-Sec what do you think the income per hour are for: Ratting: Missions: Exploration: Industry/Production: Mining:
Astenion Blame The Bunny Bunny Nation	Posted - 2010.06.15 01:23:00 - [330] I'm all for diversity and such, and I even understand sending lvl 4s into low sec OCCASIONALLY, but at least ensure that when we click DECLINE on a msn sending us into low sec that another msn sending us into low sec doesn't pop up right after the one we just declined. Then we have to wait 4 hours unless we wanna lose standing. My lvl 4s are for making money, that's all. When I go into low sec, I usually bring a cheaper, smaller ship that I can afford to lose. I can't afford to lose a BS when I'm just starting out on lvl 4s and I'm not going to bring it into low sec for pirates to pick me off like a sniper. It's about the same as driving a Ferrari through a ghetto neighborhood...you're just asking for trouble. "Disproportionate" isn't the word you're looking for, CCP; "Knocking that **** off" would be a better phrase.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.15 12:23:00 - [331] Quote: Lets stop dealing with multi-billionaires and officers/deadspace/whatever fittings, and start dealing more with average players: A guy with about 20 million SP in his chosen area, and about a 250-500 Million Isk in assets. Now in Hi-Sec what do you think the income per hour are for: Ratting: Missions: Exploration: Industry/Production: Mining: Ratting: In hi sec? Missions: I could have fitted in this category till about 2 months ago. I had no character > 16M SP, at the time T I did this: T - 3 months => Started in T1 artillery fitted Maelstrom (on the mission character I did industry and hauling before that). T - 2.5 months => The Mael was fully T2 fitted T - 2 months => The Mael had T2 hardeners, everything else self farmed faction + deadspace SB (the 530M one, I don't like to waste money on over-dimensioned gear). T - 1.5 Months => Second Mael self crafted with the looted minerals I had in surplus after building a couple of freighters (yes, the mineral faucet was that huge). Fitted it with T2 800mm "Baby Varg setup" in order to have a short range DPS platform for those blobby missions. Different rigs and laziness were the factors pushing me to have 2 ships. T - 1 month => Second Mael is faction fitted like the other. T - 0 months => I finish paying about 7B off the public loan (see Market Discussion forum) that is basically the reason why I started missioning to pay back fast. Total: made about 8.5-9B in 3 months with relaxed missioning. The second ship brought me an ubermassive jump in ISK per hour (thanks Seriously Bored for the fitting!). Exploration: In hi sec it's very random, afaik when it goes well you get the good escalation... that is to do in low sec. Industry: I am not a big industrialist. Capital production started well, but in the end is too much of a work for the ever-thinning down margins. Huge loads of expenses, of logistics, planning weeks ahead, week-long production cycles for 1 type of ship that would sell for 40M markup. Not bad overall but the "just click and forget" profession is not so "forget" after all. Plus the costs are REALLY big. In fact the loan described above was to let me buy some capital BPOs. T2 proved to be quite good but ONLY if: - you create your own T2 materials - you keep studying and anticipating the market about what's the best item for the next days. - you sell your stuff in a proper market (ie not Jita). - you avoid getting ganked. Mining: Best mining: 12M-14M per hour in the past, 8-9M these days. More AFK mining is like 6M per hour. Ice mining: from 3.5M to 5M per hour depending on the season of the year. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Voith	Posted - 2010.06.15 13:21:00 - [332] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Lets stop dealing with multi-billionaires and officers/deadspace/whatever fittings, and start dealing more with average players: A guy with about 20 million SP in his chosen area, and about a 250-500 Million Isk in assets. Now in Hi-Sec what do you think the income per hour are for: Ratting: Missions: Exploration: Industry/Production: Mining: Ratting: In hi sec? Missions: I could have fitted in this category till about 2 months ago. I had no character > 16M SP, at the time T I did this: T - 3 months => Started in T1 artillery fitted Maelstrom (on the mission character I did industry and hauling before that). T - 2.5 months => The Mael was fully T2 fitted T - 2 months => The Mael had T2 hardeners, everything else self farmed faction + deadspace SB (the 530M one, I don't like to waste money on over-dimensioned gear). T - 1.5 Months => Second Mael self crafted with the looted minerals I had in surplus after building a couple of freighters (yes, the mineral faucet was that huge). Fitted it with T2 800mm "Baby Varg setup" in order to have a short range DPS platform for those blobby missions. Different rigs and laziness were the factors pushing me to have 2 ships. T - 1 month => Second Mael is faction fitted like the other. T - 0 months => I finish paying about 7B off the public loan (see Market Discussion forum) that is basically the reason why I started missioning to pay back fast. Total: made about 8.5-9B in 3 months with relaxed missioning. The second ship brought me an ubermassive jump in ISK per hour (thanks Seriously Bored for the fitting!). Exploration: In hi sec it's very random, afaik when it goes well you get the good escalation... that is to do in low sec. Industry: I am not a big industrialist. Capital production started well, but in the end is too much of a work for the ever-thinning down margins. Huge loads of expenses, of logistics, planning weeks ahead, week-long production cycles for 1 type of ship that would sell for 40M markup. Not bad overall but the "just click and forget" profession is not so "forget" after all. Plus the costs are REALLY big. In fact the loan described above was to let me buy some capital BPOs. T2 proved to be quite good but ONLY if: - you create your own T2 materials - you keep studying and anticipating the market about what's the best item for the next days. - you sell your stuff in a proper market (ie not Jita). - you avoid getting ganked. Mining: Best mining: 12M-14M per hour in the past, 8-9M these days. More AFK mining is like 6M per hour. Ice mining: from 3.5M to 5M per hour depending on the season of the year. You kind of proved my point. Missioning is so much more profitable than any other path. Realistically a ratter in hi-sec will be lucky to pull 1m/hr. Same with exploration over a long enough timeline. So we have: Ratting: 1m/hr Missions: 30m/hr Exploration: 2m/hr Mining: 10m/hr Missions really stand out, and it goes to show that ratting and exploration in hi-sec could use a major boost.
Amanda Eidolo Adamantine Resolve	Posted - 2010.06.15 14:14:00 - [333] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha GRAWR Looking over my post again I see I was being a proper douchebag ****er. You have my humblest apologies for that . It's amazing what a good night's sleep can do for your perspective. -------- ¦
Nilania Telshua	Posted - 2010.06.15 14:54:00 - [334] Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 15/06/2010 15:03:23 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: - Where do you get this magical 900m figure from? Hulk + T2 fittings + 1 Carpo Mining Laser Upgrade + HX-2 Highwall + Michi's Excavation Augmentor. Sorry Vaerah, as much as I value your opinion, as often as it diverges from mine, this time you are simply wrong. Allow me to state the following with rather rough numbers: That fitting is completely overpriced for successful semi-afk mining in empire. With a simple Hulk + T2/Meta4 fitting + cargo rigs you can operate in high-sec at comparable efficiency and lower risk, which a financial entry point of for discussions sake 150 mio ISK. The 10-15% or so you gain by using those fancy implants and the upgrade, yields for simplicities sake ca. 1 to 1.5 mio per hour if we assume 10 mio / hour income from semi-afk empire mining, raising the income to 11 to 11.5 mio is. This would mean you need 600-750 (750 / 1,5\|1) hours mining before you reach the break even point on the costs of the implants + mining upgrade. While the T2 fitted Hulk alone reaches a break even point after about 15 hours (150 / 10). Please keep in mind this are not accurate numbers, but the scale is correct enough to state my point: You need an investment of about 150-200 mio isk to semi-akf mine in empire, being profitable in probably less than 20 hours ( ignoring skillbooks). While mission running does not scale well to multiple accounts, Active or passive Mining does scale extremely well, allowing a single player to run multiple accounts. 150 to 200 million isk for an T2 hulk is a bit below the cost for an T2, Tier 2 Battleship required for mission running. Afkish Mining in Empire yields 10 mio isk with an nearly non existing risk in empire, if the location is choosen correctly. Afkish Missioning yields certainly <30 mio isk probably more <20 mio isk with a much higher risk of loosing the ship due to fubar. Afk-Ish Mining in Empire is fine. What is not fine is the fact that high-sec mining seems to scale badly with active playing. I think Mining missions were meant to provide that. Yet since no one introduced them into the discussion, I will assume for now they failed :)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.15 20:11:00 - [335] Quote: You have my humblest apologies for that Apologies accepted! I also tend to be douche, it's why you can find me warning people about that in other threads. Plus, I have so few free minutes a day (I work 18h a day sometimes) that when I post it's like an hurricane tossed in 2 seconds. Quote: Sorry Vaerah, as much as I value your opinion, as often as it diverges from mine, this time you are simply wrong. Allow me to state the following with rather rough numbers: That fitting is completely overpriced for successful semi-afk mining in empire. That fitting was not for semi-afk in empire (as you can read in that reply, I sold bits of it) but because my "rich" mining alt was in a 0.0 indy corp. We'd do daily corp ops and we had to tank 0.0 spawns. My other mining alt (the one I still pay a sub for) has an "empire" fitting, I still play her because she's the one with tons of T2 skills and more. Quote: 150 to 200 million isk for an T2 hulk represents roughly half the cost of an T2 fitted mission running Battleship Well I don't really follow the regular rule because I tend to fly and use only what I make (it's an odd thing I got in my past sandbox other MMOs, some strange "pride" at having made my stuff by myself). To me the mission boat costed minerals at base cost (since I mined them) + the fraction of BPO value not used to make another BS to sell to someone else. (I have the Mael BPO in fact). Even if I bought it with off sell orders off the most expensive large hub in game (Rens), it's value is 99M in this second (I am copying prices with market window open). 8 x 1400mm T2 arties off Sell orders = 2.8M each => 22.4M. 3 x T2 hardeners = 1.29M right now = 3.87M 1 x T2 AB = 1.71M 1 x T2 XL-SB = 1.338M 1 x T2 SBA = 565k 1 x T2 DCU = 560k 1 x T2 TE = 919k 3 x T2 Gyros = 923k = 2.77M 3 x CCC = 7.78M x 3 = 23.34M Total, in the most expensive hub, off sell orders like a noob AND including rigs: 156,472M Add 1-2M for drones and that's its price. Hulk: Hull 133.3M MLU II = 1.25M x 2 = 2.5M Surv Scanner = 1M 2 assorted resist amps T2 = 990k x 2 = 1.88M 3 x mining lasers = 3 x 2.89M = 8.67 3 x scordite mining crystals = 190k x 3 2 x cargo rigs = 4M x 2 = 8M This fitting is just an average abstract idea, some will go 1 MLU, others for 2 cargo expanders in the lows and so on. Total: 156.07M Now, thats a GREAT deal of difference between T2 fit Hulk and T2 fit battleship, isn't it? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Nilania Telshua	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:55:00 - [336] Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 16/06/2010 14:02:30 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Total: 156.07M Now, thats a GREAT deal of difference between T2 fit Hulk and T2 fit battleship, isn't it? I concede the part of the argument concerning the price point, it seems to due my recent break my memory defaulted to relative ancient prices for the hull & CCs. :) Yet if you do not semi-afk mined in empire, but actively mined high end roids in 0.0 those at least a few months ago, did easily return a multiple of those assumed 10 million for empire mining. So the relation between risk relative risk and return still stands in my eyes. The cost for locking down a system in 0.0 so that mining operations can be run simply substitutes the higher risk of mission runners loosing a ship. Empire mining still could use a way to scale risk and income to active piloting. Werent they planning for comets and some special belt mechanics ? Do not get me wrong, my industry character has around 20 Mio. SP and I did everything from rather successful t2 invention to mining. What really annoyed me though was that the clickfest grind required especially for invention, as well as the boredome of check every 3 minutes mining and 0.01 bidwars, made earning cash subjectively more exhausting than simply actively flying missions. I am all for gameplay improvements to active mining. The removal of T0 modules doesnt bother me, what bothers me is the currently borked mission distribution, as well to a lesser degree the fact that T0 was not properly replaced by Tags or other means, contrary to prior statements by CCP.
Hyman Blaster	Posted - 2010.06.17 00:43:00 - [337] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 13:48:34 Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed Good, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Eve is better off without you, and you will not be missed by anyone. Now what are you waiting for?
HG Wells eXtreme Developments	Posted - 2010.06.17 12:57:00 - [338] In the time I have played eve, I trained ECM (ewar) the winers winged they nerfed it once - then more wines they nerfed it again I trained missiles to max - they were uber a few years ago - they nefred that - again wingers that couldn' adapt I trained up and worked hard to get good mission running ships and now they nerf missions - well eve can be a better place without me too - I have cancelled my 2 accounts and wont be back, as this game no longer caters for what I want to do - pvp yes I've done that but if it had been all pvp and suicide gank that it is becoming I'd have jumped out long ago. Here's a good idea to give all the winers new targets - make all of high sec low sec and have no high sec at all. All I say is have fun all you wingers and winers - goodbye
Aislin Neville	Posted - 2010.06.17 14:09:00 - [339] Fixing the Hi-sec L5 bug is one thing. But going and purposefully sending mission ships into lowsec to run missions when CCP knows that ships are fitted differently for PVP and PVE is simply wrong. But this move is right in-line with their agenda of turning the entire game in to PVP by forcing PVE players into PVP situations. It would seem that CCP is catering to the PVP players. They have done nothing to curb hi-sec ganking, more specifically, have allowed it by NOT taking steps to protect the PVE players. Step they have taken include: no smartbombs on undock no bubbles in hi-sec not allow cap ships in hi-sec These are useless to the average player. Some steps they have not taken: No insurance payout when Concorded. (It is basically, insurance fraud. If I buy a house, then insure it, and then burn it to the ground on purpose to get the insurance money, they aren't going to pay me. You would think that this far in to the future they would have figured this out.) Decrease response time of Concord to immediate instead of 12 seconds later. Change the way shoot/kill rights are allowed. (I can't defend or help a corp m8 when he has had his can flipped without jumping through some hoops AND being engaged by the enemy first. Ridiculous.) *Not allow players to enter any combat ships (indy and shuttles only) if their sec status is -5 or lower. (No more warping to a hi-sec safe spot and jumping into a BS an alt left for you and then ganking away.) Granted, there is no insurance payout when this happens, but there shouldn't be for ANYONE who is Concorded. If you were Concorded, the Govt. destroyed your ship. Why would the Govt then turn around and pay you insurance for your loss? They should send you a bill for the ammo and fuel that was used in addition to the damages of the player you ganked. 30 days of kill rights is nothing when you actually think about it. But what does all of this have to do with Missions? I am showing a trend of CCP's inaction in defense of PVE players and also their actions to support PVP players. There is supposed to be a copasetic relationship between PVE and PVP. When the devs purposefully drive PVE players into PVP environments, the balance is lost. If this is the trend that CCP desires, then they should just COMPLETELY do away with security status, make all systems 0.0, get rid of manufacturing, mining, missions, ratting, and a player driven economy. What they should keep is the Market where all items are seeded and can be purchased with isk which was purchased outside of the game for real money from the CCP website. Once this is accomplished, then you just let people pay to kill each other until their money runs out. If CCP cares anything about its subscribers it will listen to what the PVE players have to say and stop catering to the PVP players so much. Make it fair for everyone. The imbalance is that PVP players can force their game on anyone they find. An industrialist can't force a PVP'er to mine or build stuff.
Snakebite Amarr	Posted - 2010.06.17 23:46:00 - [340] Edited by: Snakebite on 17/06/2010 23:47:00 Quote: In the time I have played eve, I trained ECM (ewar) the winers winged they nerfed it once - then more wines they nerfed it again I trained missiles to max - they were uber a few years ago - they nefred that - again wingers that couldn' adapt I trained up and worked hard to get good mission running ships and now they nerf missions - well eve can be a better place without me too - I have cancelled my 2 accounts and wont be back, as this game no longer caters for what I want to do - pvp yes I've done that but if it had been all pvp and suicide gank that it is becoming I'd have jumped out long ago. Here's a good idea to give all the winers new targets - make all of high sec low sec and have no high sec at all. All I say is have fun all you wingers and winers - goodbye Ditto HG, I have cancelled 5 accounts, Star Trek On-line here I come.
Quagnar	Posted - 2010.06.19 20:50:00 - [341] To all those who say they can make all that ISK running lvl 4's , I say Bull Crap. I've been playing for 2 years and it aint what it used to be, so I know you are all LIARS! Period! As far as those quitting, don't blame you one bit, I'm gonna hang around and see what happens, I told you dummies CCP would loose people!
Thrawns Visage	Posted - 2010.06.20 02:00:00 - [342] why im quitting you've come to the same conclusions I have :) 1 week free of eve (besides playing the 'x' game) and im loving it. ;)
Thrawns Visage	Posted - 2010.06.20 02:06:00 - [343] oh btw.. ya /signed
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.06.20 03:19:00 - [344] Fixing the Hi-sec L5 bug is one thing. But going and purposefully sending mission ships into lowsec to run missions when CCP knows that ships are fitted differently for PVP and PVE is simply wrong. But this move is right in-line with their agenda of turning the entire game in to PVP by forcing PVE players into PVP situations. They did not send missions ships purposely to low sec. They changed the code to send ships to less populated areas. It would seem that CCP is catering to the PVP players. They have done nothing to curb hi-sec ganking, more specifically, have allowed it by NOT taking steps to protect the PVE players. Well why not? This is a PVP game. Those others nerfs you mention are for carebears. Step they have taken include: no smartbombs on undock no bubbles in hi-sec not allow cap ships in hi-sec These are useless to the average player. Useless? Could you imagine the damage bubbles would have on the carebear community? Or cap ships? And smartbombs....geez are you stupid? Some steps they have not taken: No insurance payout when Concorded. (It is basically, insurance fraud. If I buy a house, then insure it, and then burn it to the ground on purpose to get the insurance money, they aren't going to pay me. You would think that this far in to the future they would have figured this out.) They had to keep it a game. This is not real life. If it were real you would be blackballed by the insurance company after your first couple of ships that they had to reimburse. Decrease response time of Concord to immediate instead of 12 seconds later. This coming from the same person who wants more realism! HAH Cops don't respond instantly.* Change the way shoot/kill rights are allowed. (I can't defend or help a corp m8 when he has had his can flipped without jumping through some hoops AND being engaged by the enemy first. Ridiculous.) Yeah you can help a corpmate when someone steals from his can. The whole corp gets rights for 15 minutes.* Not allow players to enter any combat ships (indy and shuttles only) if their sec status is -5 or lower. (No more warping to a hi-sec safe spot and jumping into a BS an alt left for you and then ganking away.) Granted, there is no insurance payout when this happens, but there shouldn't be for ANYONE who is Concorded. If you were Concorded, the Govt. destroyed your ship. Why would the Govt then turn around and pay you insurance for your loss? They should send you a bill for the ammo and fuel that was used in addition to the damages of the player you ganked. 30 days of kill rights is nothing when you actually think about it. Again you want realism but now you don't want people to fly the ships they are skilled to fly.* But what does all of this have to do with Missions? I am showing a trend of CCP's inaction in defense of PVE players and also their actions to support PVP players. There is supposed to be a copasetic relationship between PVE and PVP. When the devs purposefully drive PVE players into PVP environments, the balance is lost. Then don't accept the mission. If this is the trend that CCP desires, then they should just COMPLETELY do away with security status, make all systems 0.0, get rid of manufacturing, mining, missions, ratting, and a player driven economy. What they should keep is the Market where all items are seeded and can be purchased with isk which was purchased outside of the game for real money from the CCP website. Once this is accomplished, then you just let people pay to kill each other until their money runs out. Oh god some more whine. Geez just quit already or go mine. Do you really play the same eve i do?
Agondray Gallente Avenger Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.06.20 04:04:00 - [345] for the record ill like to state the mission update did mess with caldari in a bad way, my alt was 500m from a mega in a perma raven, it was knocking out 3-4 cruise missiles at point blank range which never happened before and seemed to change resistance ti eve type of missile i used, and i havent figured out the drone thing yet, while i have 66m sp on this toon and only using t1 drones they follow orders, while my alt has 9m using t2 drones they wouldnt go after the frig scramming me, they went after the other half of a room of ships that wasnt attacking or even targeted so i have yet to figure out that. the mega i was on was also regenning shields at a crazy fast rate needless to say i lose that perma raven to a slow death and i think i will be selling my combat alt or reskilling him for hybrid guns so i dont lose haf my dps at pointblank. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Lividicus Caldari Caldari Provisions - PvP Division	Posted - 2010.06.20 11:28:00 - [346] Signed. This could've been done in a much more productive and less aggravating way. Replacing what would have been good loot with scrap metal is just insult to injury psychologically to players who are missioning now. If you want to nerf income per hour just add some new and less rewarding missions. Then you are 1. FINALLY adding some content to one of the most popular activities in the game. 2. Nerfing isk per hour in a way that is a tradeoff to everyone but the most hardcore L4 grinders. I quit for 2 years, came back, and all of the missions are still the same. Now i get tons of scrap metal, and my salvage isnt worth the time. Yay. Please CCP, heed the call and reverse this. There are better ways to effect the same results.
Pokechan333	Posted - 2010.06.20 19:07:00 - [347] It's cute when carebears whine. Grow up people, it's like the ATM is giving you twice as much money as you have, but when they fix it, you get mad. STFU and go kill something.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.20 19:44:00 - [348] Seriously, I can get drunk and make 300M ISK and 150k LP in hi-sec in a day, and somehow missioning isn't good enough compared to hi-sec mining, hi-sec ratting or hi-sec plexing? If half a bill a day isn't enough for you to live in hi-sec where you lose like 1 ship a year, then Jesus, how much would be? 1 bill? 2? Tell us what kind of income level you need to survive in hi-sec? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.20 23:00:00 - [349] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 20/06/2010 22:59:58 Quote: It would seem that CCP is catering to the PVP players. That's incredible when said about EvE, isn't it? It's like they market it as a PvP game. Quote: Some steps they have not taken: Lots of stuff that makes blush. Apart from can flipping (which I don't have elements to judge), everything else is made on purpose and if it was different the game would be far worse. Even the insurance fraud is a compromise to keep minerals going out of the game (guess what professions kept causing the problem about the vastly too many minerals faucets?). Finally, 30 days of killing rights are nothing to scoff at, expecially if they were extended to the full 3 characters in the account. You know what means killing a moron (no other term applies) carrying 100M in an autopilot badger and then be able to be killed in a 500M ship in the middle of a mission by the above, for 30 days? Quote: If half a bill a day isn't enough for you to live in hi-sec where you lose like 1 ship a year, then Jesus, how much would be? 1 bill? 2? Tell us what kind of income level you need to survive in hi-sec? What strikes me is that I am meant to risk 4.1B of defensless JF + 1-3B of cargo at EVERY SINGLE DAY. But hey, how many JF pilots do you see whining like CRAZY every day? None. And that's the 3rd most expensive ship in game, among the most coveted kill mails, there's a fanfare of people calling in for the gank everytime you undock. And still, they have the gall to cry for content that was not even meant for them (in L5 case). Really, GO, GO to STO and never get back again. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Troggor	Posted - 2010.06.21 10:42:00 - [350] Actually they do not market this game as a pvp game you should watch some of the ads before being stupid. Its marketed as a Sandbox. Also when eve was just a pvp game way before we had stupid people as your self on. Eve barely had 10k subscribers. As soon as they added pve content. game jumped 20k to 30k subscribers. Thats probably over your little pea Brain but you could try .
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.21 11:10:00 - [351] Edited by: Esa Dahli on 21/06/2010 11:12:21 Originally by: Troggor Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: It would seem that CCP is catering to the PVP players. That's incredible when said about EvE, isn't it? It's like they market it as a PvP game. Actually they do not market this game as a pvp game you should watch some of the ads before being stupid. Its marketed as a Sandbox. Also when eve was just a pvp game way before we had stupid people as your self on. Eve barely had 10k subscribers. As soon as they added pve content. game jumped 20k to 30k subscribers. Thats probably over your little pea Brain but you could try. This. Nothing about the last apocrypha trailer strikes me as PvP per se. Somehow the PvP whiners have gotten a sense of self entitlement and they deserve the game more than PvE'ers or are in a position to dictate what PvE'ers should do.
Swalesey Prosperity Through Violence	Posted - 2010.06.21 12:01:00 - [352] There are supposed to be better rewards for working in morte dangerous areas, that's why level 5's were introduced in low sec, not so people could get them in high sec. Why are people so scared to go anywhere but high sec? most the time you can fly through low sec-0.0 for half an hour without seeing another player. fair enough hubs and high sec entries are a problem but my god if you can't figgure out how to counter that then you need to stick to the level 4 anyway. Missions were not supposed to be the main sourse of minerals in the game obviously, mining was. this has been rectified. Ity seems mission runners want everything. they want best bounties, be the top mineral source in the game, get all the best meta drops, have zero chance of interaction with other players and fly the most expensive ships without any risk to them and be the main source of faction items via the lp system. If you believe that as a mission runner you have the rights to all that and it is a balanced career compared to others then I think you have just become blinkered by your own gravy train. miners should supply minerals- ccp take some of that away from you, good idea imo. the more dangerous missions should spawn in low sec as intended- CCP fixed that a year later than they should have. Well done CCP. Maybe if your having trouble with this try getting out of your e-peen faction fitted rattlesnake for a couple of days and fly another ship. it may not be as bad as you think and who knows you may enjoy not crapping your emo pants very time you undock.
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.21 12:49:00 - [353] Originally by: Swalesey Ity seems mission runners want everything. they want best bounties, be the top mineral source in the game, get all the best meta drops, have zero chance of interaction with other players and fly the most expensive ships without any risk to them and be the main source of faction items via the lp system. I don't care about any of that. All I want is to not be sent into low-sec with a pve purpose or do pointless extra jumps just for the f*ck of it. I don't care I get less ISK: balance all you need. If it turns out I can't pay for my ships 'n mods anymore, then so be it, I'll find some other way. Just don't send me into low-sec for no good reason or make me jump just to see me jump. That's all.
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2010.06.21 13:03:00 - [354] How about **ing no.....pvp gets nerfed why should pve not just because your to much of a ebag to leave you're **y little system. There's far more fun and profitable ways to get Isk.... rat/plex in 0.0, wormholes...pi, 0.0 pirate missions..... seriously get a grip.... adapt like everyone else or go away
Esa Dahli	Posted - 2010.06.21 13:16:00 - [355] Originally by: Gibbo3771 How about **ing no.....pvp gets nerfed why should pve not just because your to much of a ebag to leave you're **y little system. There's far more fun and profitable ways to get Isk.... rat/plex in 0.0, wormholes...pi, 0.0 pirate missions..... seriously get a grip.... adapt like everyone else or go away waaaaah, waaaaaaah... aww, you're cute.
Zilberfrid	Posted - 2010.06.21 19:59:00 - [356] I think they could tone down the meta 0 and meta 1 a bit more. I don't even loot them as-is. gimme nice tags and finger bones to compensate. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
Mideiir Amarr Frustrated Incorporated Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2010.06.21 22:59:00 - [357] With an astrometrics frigate fitted with an expanded probe launcher.. And another frigate fitted with speed mods + 2-4 salvagers you can make 10's of millions of isk per hour ninja salvaging. This does not include loot, and is based on angel/sansha rats. I know because when i had a character that was a couple of weeks old, this is what i was doing. I can make more on a week old character salvaging other players level 4's than i can mining in a 0.5 system in a hulk. Now, add LP, Rewards, Bounties and Loot as well as the skills to fly a awesome battleship. You are complaining that you cannot make 120m+ an hour in hisec? This is the first time ive looked at the missions & complex' section in a while.... and i mad.
Spatiopathe	Posted - 2010.06.21 23:56:00 - [358] Edited by: Spatiopathe on 21/06/2010 23:58:00 well the mission changes concern 2 things: 1/metal scrap instead mTta0..in fact both items are destin too be reprocess so no problem. we still drop meta lvl and sell it with huge benefit for some of them (except for ab/mwd). 2/relocate the place of mission in fonction in system. well i make 1 jump , that doesnt kill me. but few problem: -for low sec rater go far mean die quickly, -or for some of "courrier" who sent you far in a bad system like low sec instead high sec, -or some strange kill mission who ask you 6jump instead 1. finally i just spend a bit more time in warping (and thx for the nerd of volume of drone and crap module). my income doesnt change. i make quick LP and sell them always expensively. i have same bounty. well except for low sec guy, i really doesnt see the problem. mission running are still a might source of income. I just know 1 thing more profitable than mission running: rate anomaly in an upgraded nullsec for anomaly.. anomaly spawn everytime they finish one, infinte mob to kill ...mh ok they dont have LP, but more bounty :D... and if they want LP 0.0 npc with blue standing is indecent in profit also.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.06.21 23:56:00 - [359] I suggest that all people in this topic calm down because both sides are going to be ok when ccp fixes the unintended high rate of low sec missions. You are probably going to get like 1-2low sec missions per 10 normal ones so both pirates and bears will be fine with that, although the number of people doing those 1-2ls missions will be small some people won't decline them because they want a challenge sometimes. So sit tight and wait for ccp to fix it. knowledge is power
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.22 00:39:00 - [360] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 22/06/2010 00:40:59 Quote: Actually they do not market this game as a pvp game you should watch some of the ads before being stupid. Its marketed as a Sandbox Since it's a sandbox, there will be people whose idea of sandbox is to destroy you 23/7. This makes it a PvP game, unconsensual and all. On paper, some punk could decide to suicide gank your L4 ship every single time you undock and no one would stop it. Quote: This. Nothing about the last apocrypha trailer strikes me as PvP per se. Somehow the PvP whiners have gotten a sense of self entitlement and they deserve the game more than PvE'ers or are in a position to dictate what PvE'ers should do. Great bullsht. PvE <> passive farmer. I do, did and will do more PvE than you (unless you do it 100%, then we are same) but this does not mean that the "E" of PvE = hi sec, nor that the "E" = nothing to do in order to have "E" unlocked. It's just the same, identical progression there's in the other not pure PvE MMOs, you do the first quests in a safe spot then you are kicked in the gonads out of the town and are on your own and everyone can attack you at will. Even in super-PvE predominance games like WoW, yes. As of now it's riskier and PvP imbued doing a daily in WoW to get 10 gizzards (or whatever stupid it asks to do) than was doing a L5 in hi sec. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Taiwanistan	Posted - 2010.06.22 02:12:00 - [361] Vaerah Vahrokha, you poast too much, this is not your personal Q&A, do it elsewhere. i've seen enough of your opinion and reasoning. now waiting for more good discussion on this topic.
Zilberfrid	Posted - 2010.06.22 08:28:00 - [362] I think that was a relevant post, just because it is not in agreement does not make it irrelevant. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
Fumitsugu Le Point G	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:04:00 - [363] I'm just happy that Y-T8 MWDs cost 125 times less than before (from about 10 mill to 80k in Jita) Oh, and just like, you know, decline the missions that send you to lowsec And obviously, higher tiers (challenging/rewarding) of activities should be reserved for more dangerous (unsupervised) areas.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.22 09:21:00 - [364] I don't really have a problem with the changes... if I get a mission I don't like and I cannot decline it, I move to another agent a few jumps away. If all you do is missin all day, then yes, I could possibly why you're unhappy. As a side note, if that is hte case, why don't you try something apart from PVE? I used to PVe al lday and thought it was the be and end all... then I got into PVP Each to their own... but to be honest this petition thread, however good its intentions, is not going to change anything.
Deranged Leper	Posted - 2010.06.22 11:45:00 - [365] I resubbed on 3 accounts because of this change. Nice to see CCP balancing the game.
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.06.22 16:26:00 - [366] Originally by: Fumitsugu I'm just happy that Y-T8 MWDs cost 125 times less than before (from about 10 mill to 80k in Jita) How did that happen? I thought these are hard to get. I never really got very many if any, when I looted wrecks. They dropping more now or something? -- "You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden
Nyar La'thotep	Posted - 2010.06.22 17:54:00 - [367] Tyrannis brought fewer Meta 0 drops from rats, with an increase in the other Metas (1-4) to combat the mission-loot-miners (ie: Meta 0's reprocessed into more minerals than the Meta 1-4). I applaud this change; paying MUCH less for Meta 4 items = win.
Ghurthe	Posted - 2010.06.22 21:47:00 - [368] I want to see more missions added to eve, more in 0.0. Agents being able to be installed in outposts, just more to eve missions than just high sec and level 5s in lowsec, since basically lowsec is suicide for missions.
Cid Mutation	Posted - 2010.06.22 23:55:00 - [369] I think the nerf was needed. I used to buy cheep meta 0-1 for 1% of there mineral value. The first month I did this I had invested 800 million and got 1 300 million! Also missioner were the only one who had not there nest kick in the nuts by a patch lately. It's always good to have your ways change once in while and work for it sometimes. And they gave you PI. The way it goes i'll able to buy PLEX with revenue of PI only. I don't see a problem with this expansion.
Shiina Kenshira	Posted - 2010.07.29 01:00:00 - [370] Fact is: this is a pvp-basing game and you can attack everyone everywhere at everytime. I am not afraid in entering LOWsec or .0 space and when i do this i will mostly enter it in covertops or in pvp-fitted ships. With those changes my agent now sends me every second or every mission into low-sec. I will not fit my ships for missionrunning with pvp-fittings and I also will not risk my xyz ISK worth ship for a missionreward + bounty of about 10mill. It is one thing to say "align to xy and warp out if someone gets into your missionsite" or "warp to safespot and log off" or whatever... the other thing is the insurance-system is totally crap (did you already check insurances?) and on these basics CCP forces missionrunners to do pvp while they are busy dealing their pve stuff? Of course it is a pvp-basing game and of course i will go for pvp, but not as long as i am sitting in my pve-fitted ship. It¦s a bit like you starting on poleposition at an Formula 1 race with a bicycle, if you dont move aside you¦ll end as ketchup at next clone-facility. I love this game, i love pvp and pve, but it is time to rethink if missions still make sense at the risk atm. /signed to reverse the mission-nerfs
Toanfoal Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.29 03:33:00 - [371] Waa waa waa... when missions actually become dynamic and risky, then they'll be justified in having such huge profit potential. As long as you can look up the virtually-no-risk strats online, then they don't deserve ridiculous profit.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.07.29 04:24:00 - [372] I'm a mission-runner. I'm quite happy with the most of the changes to missions. Everyone who ran level 5 missions realised that getting the mission in hisec from a lowsec agent was borderline exploitative and they were milking the agents for what they were worth while the gig lasted. Everyone who refined loot and realised they produced enough minerals to replace a battleship every month realised that mission loot must be hurting mining. Many of them gave up mining entirely since they were making far more ISK from loot sales/refining. (sure, a slight generalisation there) I am a little upset that some loot has been dropping more frequently now than it was before, but I'm happy that I don't have so much loot to clog up my salvaging ship's cargo hold. This is a PvP game, it's supposed to be exciting when you PvP with folks, whether you win or lose. That some people like me spend their entire game career running missions and maximising ISK/hr doesn't suddenly make the game about PvE. Your rattlesnake will still be useful for blasting through level 4 missions, or engaging in hisec wardecs. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.07.29 10:13:00 - [373] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 13:48:34 Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed I havent been able to get a good mission in days...no Angel Extravaganza..no Gurista Extravaganza..no gone berserk..no demsel in distress.Nothing but the drone missions i always decline.Been playing this char for over 2 years and I too am considering giving up this account. agreed and signed
Fademist	Posted - 2010.07.29 11:05:00 - [374] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 13:48:34 Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed U know that that happens everywhere? and believe on some others mmo's nerfs is even worse.....
Punctator	Posted - 2010.07.29 11:37:00 - [375] Edited by: Punctator on 29/07/2010 11:39:29 Edited by: Punctator on 29/07/2010 11:37:35 i won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. >cut< supported as HELL CcP should nerf 0.0 - this blobs of super caps are sick
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.29 11:50:00 - [376] Originally by: Punctator Edited by: Punctator on 29/07/2010 11:39:29 Edited by: Punctator on 29/07/2010 11:37:35 i won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. >cut< supported as HELL CcP should nerf 0.0 - this blobs of super caps are sick How would that help you? Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Babel Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2010.07.29 11:53:00 - [377] Originally by: Lone Provider Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP It hadn't crossed your mind that seeing as since the removal of highsec ones [a number of years ago], ALL lvl 5 agents are in low sec, that maybe, just maybe CCP's intention was that the missions themselves should be in lowsec too - and that getting them in high sec was an oversight - now fixed ? If you invested so much in exploiting [small 'e'] a glitch that has now been corrected - more fool you. . All generalisations are false - Discuss.
Xenuria Gallente Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.07.29 18:48:00 - [378] Originally by: Lone Provider Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 13:48:34 Edited by: Lone Provider on 29/05/2010 07:31:15 I won't go into details as everyone knows whats happened! This Petition is to get CCP to reverse ALL mission assosiated nerfs. TBH, if this isn't done I will quit, I see no point spending my RL time and effort to achieve a certain position and strive towards something that will probably get nerfed in future expansions. Side note to CCP- -This is a GAME and is supposed to be FUN, not upset subscribers! -An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it! -I think this was completely reckless /signed I don't think you understand what nerf means. If the missions were nerfed that means they got easier and frankly they should because alot of these missions especially faction ones are really hard to solo. What has been nerfed in missions is the loot. Loot is terrible in missions now adays. Missions are also bugged. I did a mission where I had to fight amarr and their shields went down in 2 hits but they had redonkulous armor tank. I was like "wat?" because amarr are saposed to be shield tankers. They have been fixing things behind the scenes. A few weeks ago amarr in missions could shoot at your ship with lazers fron ANY distance and still get the same damage they would if you were in optimal range. They silently fixed that and now amarr mission lazers actually miss your ship once in a blue moon. The game could use more references to the gallentes taste for Futanari. "My name is legion, for we are many"
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.29 20:07:00 - [379] Originally by: Babel Originally by: Lone Provider Just to add, this is really serious to me. Ive been playing for over 2yrs and since the last expansion I've concentrated on creating a solo passive lvl5 Rattlesnake, including Drones, Shield, Cruise Missile and Rig skills to T2. I finally get into a position to solo lvl5s about a month ago and can finally fund my PvP, and then.....BOOM! no more Hi-sec lvl5s, I can't take my Rattlesnake into low-sec, every pirate in the region will look for me. THANKS CCP It hadn't crossed your mind that seeing as since the removal of highsec ones [a number of years ago], ALL lvl 5 agents are in low sec, that maybe, just maybe CCP's intention was that the missions themselves should be in lowsec too - and that getting them in high sec was an oversight - now fixed ? If you invested so much in exploiting [small 'e'] a glitch that has now been corrected - more fool you. Plus which, a so called "PvPer" who cant make ISK outside of hi-sec? lulz... Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Builder Robert	Posted - 2010.07.30 00:00:00 - [380] Originally by: Xenuria I don't think you understand what nerf means. If the missions were nerfed that means they got easier and frankly they should because alot of these missions especially faction ones are really hard to solo. What has been nerfed in missions is the loot. Loot is terrible in missions now adays. Missions are also bugged. I did a mission where I had to fight amarr and their shields went down in 2 hits but they had redonkulous armor tank. I was like "wat?" because amarr are saposed to be shield tankers. They have been fixing things behind the scenes. A few weeks ago amarr in missions could shoot at your ship with lazers fron ANY distance and still get the same damage they would if you were in optimal range. They silently fixed that and now amarr mission lazers actually miss your ship once in a blue moon. The game could use more references to the gallentes taste for Futanari. Typical HURRRDA RELOADED member
Ghurthe	Posted - 2010.07.30 06:07:00 - [381] I miss level 5 missions. As they stand they're basically unplayable. +1
CanI haveyourstuff	Posted - 2010.07.30 06:30:00 - [382] Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff on 30/07/2010 06:31:41 Eve is like an a job.. you play in order to afford playing. Now very much corps and alliances move to lowsec to farm missions in carriers, some of my nolife corpmates are doing 4 mil loyality points IN A FRIGGIN DAY. + insignias. (or even more) some lvl5 gives you 65.000 LP for a 3 minute mission.... <- this is 50mil per 3 minutes! all you need is to fly thanatos with decent skills. ofc there is an a chance to get hotdropped but with eve game mechanics, not going to happen much thanx to local and uberscanner. 0.0 is empty and lags... 20 ship fleet may crash node. this is just epic stuff aaand im feeling bored tbh.
Ivas Tiffy Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.30 08:08:00 - [383] at 4m lp a day plus tags.. I would not need to mission for a whole bloody month. that would be a clear 6b isk in my pocket but i dont think there is any low sec agents that do the hi end bpc's Originally by: CanI haveyourstuff Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff on 30/07/2010 06:31:41 Eve is like an a job.. you play in order to afford playing. Now very much corps and alliances move to lowsec to farm missions in carriers, some of my nolife corpmates are doing 4 mil loyality points IN A FRIGGIN DAY. + insignias. (or even more) some lvl5 gives you 65.000 LP for a 3 minute mission.... <- this is 50mil per 3 minutes! all you need is to fly thanatos with decent skills. ofc there is an a chance to get hotdropped but with eve game mechanics, not going to happen much thanx to local and uberscanner. 0.0 is empty and lags... 20 ship fleet may crash node. this is just epic stuff aaand im feeling bored tbh. Go ahead and clap. Mediocrity deserves applause. Why don't we go find Pandemic Legion and clap around them!
Ankbar Amarr	Posted - 2010.07.30 22:23:00 - [384] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's just the same, identical progression there's in the other not pure PvE MMOs, you do the first quests in a safe spot then you are kicked in the gonads out of the town and are on your own and everyone can attack you at will. Even in super-PvE predominance games like WoW, yes. I played CoX for 4+ years, and I would say they did not do this. In fact, even though there is PvP capable between CoH and CoV, the things people seem driven to do(mostly by content since rewards are balanced across the board pretty much) are run missions cooperatively between villians and heroes. side comment: I never viewed WoW as super-PvE. I was not a big player, though, but it seemed to me everyone just used the PvE content to grind as quickly as they could to lvl 70(now 80) and then went PvP.
EZ Windy	Posted - 2010.07.30 22:47:00 - [385] +1 Vote Nothing **es me off more that logging on after a RL day at work and use whatever little play time I have to run/decline a crappy lvl 4 noob/nerfed mission. GET THE FK REAL CCP! Keep the missions hard so I can think of ways to refit, team up with people and enjoy the game (that I pay btw). At this stage, with the the new crapy (carebare imo) sov model, the came is getting boreing real fast and I find myself playing other online games instead. This is an Alt.
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2010.07.31 04:06:00 - [386] Edited by: Urgg Boolean on 31/07/2010 04:13:32 Dear OP : Oddly, I am in a very similar situation. I just built up enough ISK to buy a Rattler, and I am working on max'ing out my skills to get the most out that ship. One of the Loadout Designers on BatleClinic states that he will not take his Rattler into low sec, but goes there to get L5 Hi Sec missions... Cool plan, eh? Now I see missions have been nerfed. I am exasperated every time I see the diminished rewards, or get handed some wimpy courier mission that pays 6 ISK + 2 LP to haul 7500m3 16 jumps round trip, possibly through low sec... It simply thrills me. CCP : please give us our old mission system back, and stop trying to force people into low sec and 0.0. The people who want to be there already are. /signed P.S. : I think some NPC pirates burglarized an Afterburner factory - they seem to have an unlimited supply ...
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2010.07.31 04:37:00 - [387] Originally by: Mara Rinn <snip>Your rattlesnake will still be useful for blasting through level 4 missions, or engaging in hisec wardecs. I thought that too, but I was corrected by many. The Rattlesnake's claim to fame is AFKing L4's and soloing L5's. It is not a speed runner, which is the purview of Machariels, Nightmares, and CNRs. As someone else put it, it's a slow Dominix with cruise missiles instead of rail guns, and a much better tank (NOS proof). Now with the mission changes, no Rattler pilots I have talked with will risk their Rattler in Low Sec space - you'd be a perfectly tasty gank magnet ... CCP keeps changing things to drive play styles into Low Sec and 0.0. PI in low sec is one thing because I can take my Prowler to conduct business and be safe (enough). Taking my Rattler into Low Sec for an L5? The inhabitants would feel it compulsory to teach such stupid noobs a lesson, I have no doubt.
Turumutt	Posted - 2010.07.31 08:02:00 - [388] Originally by: EZ Windy +1 Vote Nothing **es me off more that logging on after a RL day at work and use whatever little play time I have to run/decline a crappy lvl 4 noob/nerfed mission. GET THE FK REAL CCP! Keep the missions hard so I can think of ways to refit, team up with people and enjoy the game (that I pay btw). At this stage, with the the new crapy (carebare imo) sov model, the came is getting boreing real fast and I find myself playing other online games instead. This is an Alt. Exactly same here... there is nothing more "FUN" than to log in after workday to farm isk inorder to do PVP......
Zeta Zhul Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.31 21:21:00 - [389] Originally by: Biggus McChinnus What? But I thought missions got buffed? I ran 20 missions out of my low-sec agent yesterday and they were all given to me in the same system. No more jumping 1-2 jumps for missions. No more dodging gate camps. And all the best-named loot that's dropping? I picked up 4x Catalyzed Cold-Gas MWDs yesterday. It's like the EVE God's heard my prayers. I'm happier than ever before! :) LOL. Those aren't worth that much anymore because MWDs are dropping all over the place. Their value has fallen by more than 60%. Check the markets. MWDs are dropping like flies. ----- this signature line intentionally left blank.
Craig Ankers THE Perfectly Insane Tactical Unison Allied Forces	Posted - 2010.07.31 22:55:00 - [390] Edited by: Craig Ankers on 31/07/2010 22:57:19 I have no real problems with the nerf to lvl 5 missions and will give it a go and i have, i have lost ships in low sec and also learnt new things which is wot EVE is all about HOWEVER: i dislike the the way ccp went about doing wot it did.....they should have given us notice of this change well in advance so we could have changed skills and ships to adapt to low sec lvl 5.....they didnt...i have spent the last few months training and trying to raise ISK to buy ships for the low sec missions... months and isk wasted by ccp lack of communication with the PVE people of this game... wot ccp should do now is compensate those players with ISK and skills to counter act for wot they have done ...ive spent billions on ships and other things to run high sec lvl 5 and help other lvl 5 guys and gals.....with resourses and equipment I dont know about u guys but i want compensation for a major change in game play that was done with no warning at all Now for those of u guys who say well the high sec lvl 5 was a flaw in the game..well i actaully never knew that till after the new expansion had occoured......get a grip ccp...compensate the real lvl 5 missioniers

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