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Amun Khonsu Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2010.06.29 11:40:00 - [31] Edited by: Amun Khonsu on 29/06/2010 11:59:24 Edited by: Amun Khonsu on 29/06/2010 11:59:02 Originally by: Vikarion Shouldn't all of you Minmatar militia be more focused on shooting the Amarr than each other? You have a hostile entity bent on your destruction, namely the Empire, and you think that your time is better spent killing each other over one person? Not to be critical, but this sounds like somewhat of a waste of time. Perhaps you should fight a frigate duel to settle it and be done with it, don't you think? There is currently no internal wardecs among major minmatar militia corporations and all of us strongly discourage such ideas as they are counterproductive. Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts.
Amun Khonsu Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2010.06.29 11:56:00 - [32] Edited by: Amun Khonsu on 29/06/2010 11:57:38 Originally by: Eran Mintor What did you expect Alica? Most of the militia, and really the Republic as well, is more focused on causing death than anything else. I never want to see the Republic succumb to the Empire, but at the same time I wonder-what is necessary to cause change among our people? Sasawong and many others fought hard to instill the ideals we thought to be the driving force behind the Tribal Liberation Force; passion, freedom, and perseverance. Perhaps it is the cynic that has awakened, or I faced the reality that the real driving force for most among it's ranks is the desire for murder; murder masked by "retribution". The idealists and romantics among the Tribal Liberation Force are considered weak if they do not quench the blood-thirst of many Matari and Her allies. Is this how we gauge Minmatar, by their "kill-board statistics"? The death we are focused on is Amarr wartargets, pirates and their alts. It is not murder to fight war and establish order. War exists and is a dirty job. Someone has to establish law and order amidst the chaos created by these threats. Tribal Liberation Force (NPC) is not weak by any means. They do need the organization and leadership provided by player corporations and they are a vital part of the war effort. Killboard stats are an effective means of gauging military power. Plexing secures space with or without military power (ability to fight). Hunters and plexers work in concert. Originally by: Arkady Sadik The vast majority of capsuleers judges everyone else by their "killboard stats". The plex work of the Amarr now is done by a select few, just like the plex work of the Minmatar in the last offense was done by a select few. The Minmatar are no different here from the other factions. Sadly, it's often easier to see the shortcomings of your own people, and assume the grass is greener on the other planet. It isn't. What makes us different from the Amarr is not that we somehow attract the more balanced capsuleers. I never understood this hatred between the preferences. The hunters talk badly about those who captured plexes; the plexers in turn talk badly about those who prefer to hunt. Both are needed, there is a large group that does both, and cooperation works well. Trying to talk badly about "the other side" only causes fewer and fewer people to do both. Do you think this is helpful? I also never understood why disagreements like this thread are discussed in public. Do you think this serves any purpose? Use your neocom mail system. It has the same results. This thread was discussed publicly due to some things in another thread that came out publicly. Of course, it is best to settle private matters in private and in some cases even public matters. Others require a public response. This issue was handled in both private and public arena's. You are right that militia needs both hunters and plexers. There is no reason why they cannot cooperate and cooridnate operations. When Eran Mintor was in Minmatar militia, he being an avid plexer, I often joined his fleets for the specific purpose of both supporting his plexing fleet by engaging the enemy rather than participating in acquiring plex points and rank advancement. Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts.
Nauticaa Gallente The Rising Phoenix	Posted - 2010.06.29 12:03:00 - [33] Right my 2 isk. No one Person or corp can claim to speak for a Militia simple as. Also Revan has stated publicy she is a slaver so dont see why your aguring that,
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.29 12:38:00 - [34] Originally by: Nauticaa Right my 2 isk. No one Person or corp can claim to speak for a Militia simple as. Also Revan has stated publicy she is a slaver so dont see why your aguring that, You really are the prize idiot at the idiot farm on national idiot day during the centenial idiocy celebrations of the proud republic of moron aren't you ? Chatsubo RP Discussion
Nauticaa Gallente The Rising Phoenix	Posted - 2010.06.29 13:20:00 - [35] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Nauticaa Right my 2 isk. No one Person or corp can claim to speak for a Militia simple as. Also Revan has stated publicy she is a slaver so dont see why your aguring that, You really are the prize idiot at the idiot farm on national idiot day during the centenial idiocy celebrations of the proud republic of moron aren't you ? Nah afried you claim that prize I have to put up with second place :(
Gangleri Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2010.06.29 13:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Amun Khonsu Edited by: Amun Khonsu on 29/06/2010 11:59:24 There is currently no internal wardecs among major minmatar militia corporations and all of us strongly discourage such ideas as they are counterproductive. * Legatus Gangleri laughs very hard. I like the word "currently" here ..... it makes all the more clear that we have to stand in the gap between the light of civilized society and the Minmatar tribes and their supporters gathered. 1PG is recruiting
Revan Neferis The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.06.29 14:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Nauticaa Right my 2 isk. Have you considered suing your brains for nonsupport? Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Totally pagan, totally beautiful, totally worshipful. This is life
Amun Khonsu Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2010.06.29 14:51:00 - [38] Originally by: Gangleri Originally by: Amun Khonsu Edited by: Amun Khonsu on 29/06/2010 11:59:24 There is currently no internal wardecs among major minmatar militia corporations and all of us strongly discourage such ideas as they are counterproductive. * Legatus Gangleri laughs very hard. I like the word "currently" here ..... it makes all the more clear that we have to stand in the gap between the light of civilized society and the Minmatar tribes and their supporters gathered. I don't understand why you would laugh so hard at your being incorrect. Originally by: Revan Neferis Originally by: Nauticaa Right my 2 isk. Have you considered suing your brains for nonsupport? Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik omg... LOL Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts.
Captain Vaguy Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2010.06.29 14:56:00 - [39] I can not and do not speak on behalf of the militia. I do however speak for my corp. and myself so I will say this... I fight (as my stats show), I plex (as my ranks shows), I promote peace and harmony within our militia (as I'm sure hundreds will agree). I also stand side by side with my friends and allies. I do not flip from one corp. to another, nor do I flip from one side of the war to another. I will never abandon my friends in their time of need. This thread began because an ally and a friend of ours was insulted. We wanted to rectify that matter. Alica was extremely forthcoming with a fair explanation and a humble apology. That matter is now closed. As to the debate about "hunters" and "plexers". A solid militia needs both. My comrades and I promote plexing as it is a crucial part of our strategy to win the war against our oppressors. As a fighter it is imperative that we offer full support to our plexers.
Zverofaust Gallente Locus Industries	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:22:00 - [40] I had fish & chips yesterday. It was pretty delicious. ___________________________________________ The Hero of Kamela The Terror of Tararan The Executioner of Ezzara
Captain Vaguy Royal Order of Security Specialists	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:24:00 - [41] Originally by: Zverofaust I had fish & chips yesterday. It was pretty delicious. always make sure you have plenty of salt and vinigar young fausty
Zverofaust Gallente Locus Industries	Posted - 2010.06.29 15:33:00 - [42] I used lemon juice, which is a perfectly acceptable substitute for vinegar on fried fish products in my humble opinion. * Legatus Zverofaust licks his lips. ___________________________________________ The Hero of Kamela The Terror of Tararan The Executioner of Ezzara
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Ddial Chan Annwn Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.29 16:51:00 - [43] Originally by: Zverofaust I used lemon juice, which is a perfectly acceptable substitute for vinegar on fried fish products in my humble opinion. I disagree. Lemon should be considered as well as vinegar, not instead of. For example, Pilot Nauticaa's point was correct, so she was insulted instead of responded to. Personally, I don't like that kind of either/or mentality when both would be better but shrugs to each their own. I don't even know what kind of fish it was anyway.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.29 17:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow For example, Pilot Nauticaa's point was correct, so she was insulted instead of responded to. Pilot Nauticaa lied and repeated the same lie that is only proffered by Amarrian Nationalists at this point. Now you lie and repeat the same lie. Makes you think doesn't it? Chatsubo RP Discussion
Eran Mintor Minmatar Ddial Chan Annwn Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.29 17:41:00 - [45] Yes, thank you, I am brainwashing everyone these days. You give me too much credit. ------------------------------------------------
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Ddial Chan Annwn Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.29 23:36:00 - [46] Edited by: Sophie Starsparrow on 29/06/2010 23:39:15 Originally by: Jade Constantine Now you lie and repeat the same lie. The first time you called me a liar was when I quoted your own post, quoting Johns words that you then claimed he never spoke. I thought you would have learned that time that simply calling someone names does not constitute an argument. In fact, it makes you look ridiculous. Did Revan say she supported Sansha? Yes or no? Does Revan swear loyalty to the Empress? Yes or no? These are very simple questions which should be answered easily. Here's another: Did Revan say she will engage all who engage Sansha, with the exception of Star Fraction? Yes or no? If I have to I will have to go digging through the IGS and post your own words against you again, and you will resort to name calling and accusations and thats as far as we'll get, unless of course, you just answer the questions. Shouldn't be too hard right?
Cheiftan Minmatar Shinryaku Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 00:02:00 - [47] Rolls Eyes I believe what you are looking for is this Miss Star Sparrow... But I am Curious jade dose this not make Sani Sabik "slaver Apologists" or am I missing something, just a civilised question , which I think deserves a semi civil answer.
Revan Neferis The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.06.30 01:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow Shouldn't be too hard right? yawns You are so predictable that you can't even entertain a doubt. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Totally pagan, totally beautiful, totally worshipful. This is life
Sneaky Noob Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.06.30 03:56:00 - [49] Ohai. Someone said Ice Fire Warriors. Also, I like eating tacos while docked in Auga. That is all. ---- The Sneakiest Noob in all of EVE
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.30 11:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow The first time you called me a liar... The first time I called you a liar was when you literally melted down into an embarrassing spectacle of slaver-denying nonsense caught in a dozen lies in a public galnet thread. Still you have asked me 3 leading questions. To which I answer "no" "no" and "no". And before you begin the pitiful business of bringing your frail intellect to bump helplessly at the facts lets ask you a "simple" yes/no question in return which should be as easy as those I answered right? Have Annwn Matari now stopped betraying the Matari people? Yes/no? Chatsubo RP Discussion
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.30 11:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Cheiftan Rolls Eyes I believe what you are looking for is this Miss Star Sparrow... But I am Curious jade dose this not make Sani Sabik "slaver Apologists" or am I missing something, just a civilised question , which I think deserves a semi civil answer. You are missing the point of my Lover's announcement where she announces she will hire mercenaries to engage anti-Sansha forces attempting to impede the Sansha offensive in the Amarr Empire. From my perspective this represents an almost poetic justice that the Empire most complicit in the founding of the Nation and still practising slavery enthusiastically should be left to fend for itself against the society of technological slavers it spawned in its image. Still it is her business at the end of the day. I am responsible for the political decisions I make alongside my comrades and free captains in the Star Fraction. I am not responsible for the independent decisions of other CEOs and leaders outside of the Star Fraction. But I will say speaking personally now, I have seen a great deal of corruption, lies, and deeply disreputable behaviour from Amarrian nationalists using the Sansha offensive as a cover for their own disgustingly regressive ideology and worse yet, people are taken in by the notion it is right to fight alongside slavers against slavers because the Empire is somehow morally superior to the Nation. It is a nonsense and you should be ashamed. Chatsubo RP Discussion
Eran Mintor Minmatar Ddial Chan Annwn Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 12:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Cheiftan Rolls Eyes I believe what you are looking for is this Miss Star Sparrow... But I am Curious jade dose this not make Sani Sabik "slaver Apologists" or am I missing something, just a civilised question , which I think deserves a semi civil answer. You are missing the point of my Lover's announcement where she announces she will hire mercenaries to engage anti-Sansha forces attempting to impede the Sansha offensive in the Amarr Empire. From my perspective this represents an almost poetic justice that the Empire most complicit in the founding of the Nation and still practising slavery enthusiastically should be left to fend for itself against the society of technological slavers it spawned in its image. Still it is her business at the end of the day. I am responsible for the political decisions I make alongside my comrades and free captains in the Star Fraction. I am not responsible for the independent decisions of other CEOs and leaders outside of the Star Fraction. But I will say speaking personally now, I have seen a great deal of corruption, lies, and deeply disreputable behaviour from Amarrian nationalists using the Sansha offensive as a cover for their own disgustingly regressive ideology and worse yet, people are taken in by the notion it is right to fight alongside slavers against slavers because the Empire is somehow morally superior to the Nation. It is a nonsense and you should be ashamed. Because somehow, you ***ing and flying alongside a Blood Raider who fights for* that which you fight against, is not something to be considered "nonsense" that "you should be ashamed" of? Your duality is hilarious! Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow The first time you called me a liar... Have Annwn Matari now stopped betraying the Matari people? Yes/no? Would have required them to start betraying them to begin with. ------------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.30 12:18:00 - [53] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 30/06/2010 12:19:00 Originally by: Eran Mintor Because somehow, you ***ing and flying alongside a Blood Raider who fights for* that which you fight against, is not something to be considered "nonsense" that "you should be ashamed" of? Your duality is hilarious! As is your ignorance race-traitor. Revan Neferis has been a constant thorn in the side to the Amarr Empire, to the Amarrian loyalists from PIE to the CVA, and has caused untold billions of isk in damage to the enemies of Freedom over the years. While you are incapable of even naming what I fight for its beyond ridiculous for you to allege contradictions which do not exist. Quote: Have Annwn Matari now stopped betraying the Matari people? Yes/no? Would have required them to start betraying them to begin with. Ah you don't like leading questions when they are aimed at you then? But really. I'd prefer a yes/no answer if you don't want me to accuse you of wriggling and evading the point. Chatsubo RP Discussion
Cheiftan Minmatar Shinryaku Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 12:23:00 - [54] Well Miss Constantine... Firstly thank you for your honest and quite direct answer to my question, however i do have more that i wish to ask to Revan and yourself on this matter. First one is aimed at you jade, I understand from Star Fraction policy you do not have say on the actions of other entities and I would like to make clear I make no assumption of this howeverà Despite the poetic justice of Amarraians being enslaved do you not feel it is counter productive to overall cause, I have never supported slavery by far I have always opposed it, however do you not feel from these actions we are going from one form of slavery to another? And a second question to you jade is, do you agree that the recent nation invasion is a problem that we all face and should face together? I ask this because while I see the poetic justice in this I am all out against such actions, we face the fight of not only freedom but free will and killing people who oppose the Sansha is very counter productive, however I do take note of you actions against nation supporting Corporations. Now for Miss Revan, if you are actively declaring war on people who fight the nation then why focus on the Amarrians rather than attack all entities, are these actions in aid of the Sansha or a jab at the Amarrians? Either way if it is true and you no longer support slavery then is it not also a bad idea to work in aid of an entity that is hell-bent on the absolute Assimilation of all free peoples and slaves alike?
Cheiftan Minmatar Shinryaku Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 12:30:00 - [55] On a side note i would ask for evidence of where Annwn Matari have betrayed the Minmatar people, no we do not support Shakkor and his ominous silence. However we have never taken any actions, that I know of that have actively harmed the Minmatar people, on the contrary we have aided them, while our patience with shakkor is wearing thin, our hearts are open to all our brothers and sisters, for we are all in the same boat. Their fore when I say this I am not avoiding or wriggling from the said question. We have not betrayed the Minmatar people and therefore that question should be re phrased or removed
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.30 12:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Cheiftan Despite the poetic justice of Amarraians being enslaved do you not feel it is counter productive to overall cause, I have never supported slavery by far I have always opposed it, however do you not feel from these actions we are going from one form of slavery to another? First I should say for the sake of clarity that I have never believed your personal claims on opposition to Slavery. You fought for I-RED and they supported the CVA empire in Providence which was a political entity in the image of Amarrian expansion with the expressed ambition of enslaving those stars for their religion and ideology. Second, I do not believe there is an "overall cause". I see various self-appointed crusaders and egoist prophets and saviours seeking to use the threat of Sansha invasion to boost their own media profile or otherwise justify their own smaller evils against a black and white assessment of "greater good". In the attack of Sansha Nation vessels on the Amarrian Empire I see two -10 enemies fighting and the best outcome is both are destroyed. At the moment it is by no means clear that the Nation is more powerful than the Empire and it would be a nonsense to help the stronger -10 entity suppress the weaker knowing that future political stasis will continue to enslave hundreds of billions across the cluster and spend their lives brutally in lowtech agriculture and mining commerce. Quote: And a second question to you jade is, do you agree that the recent nation invasion is a problem that we all face and should face together? No. I will not defend the Amarrian Empire against an entity that it encouraged and empowered and shares many of the same cultural forms and intrinsic ideals. I consider a weakened Amarrian Empire is the best thing we can hope from recent Nation intervention. Quote: I ask this because while I see the poetic justice in this I am all out against such actions, we face the fight of not only freedom but free will And you are claiming what? That slaves of the Amarrian Empire retain their "free will?" That the glaive and vitoc infection encourage independent thought? That transcraniel microcontrollers are somehow different from Sansha implants? That religious brainwashing is different from cult brainwashing? Quote: ...and killing people who oppose the Sansha is very counter productive, however I do take note of you actions against nation supporting Corporations. Well its where we differ. I consider killing nationalist Amarrians is rarely counter productive. As I said its simply a matter of two -10 entities fighting each other. If the strength of both is reduced then that is a good result. Only thing that could happen to make me change my mind on this would be the Amarrian Empire freeing its slaves. My lover has shown this can be done, she has done it. If the Sansha threat is so real as to truly risk the lives and freedom of all then surely you should be calling on the Amarrian Empire to end the practise of slavery and reform its politics so that free capsuleers can stomach working alongside Amarrian Nationalism against an external threat. Chatsubo RP Discussion
Eran Mintor Minmatar Ddial Chan Annwn Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 13:10:00 - [57] Hmmmm... I'm not sure where to begin... Aside from SHY's history with I-RED where they freed a few million slaves as a result of peaceful actions, where U'K has freed...who knows, maybe a few million, and killed the rest out of stubbornness... Yeah, aside from that, SHY has operated in the Minmatar militia and fought against slavery in all regards. Perhaps you should have held with your standard reply of "You Ammatar/race-traitors/Amarr Lovers/non-Star Fractionites are insignificant and I don't care what you think!" instead of pretending you know anything about SHY or Annwn Matari. Do you intend to throw MATAR in the light of "Ammatar/Blood-Traitor" simply because I am here, or do you have some other indication of being 'anti-Minmatar'? This is nonsense...do go on though, I'm awake later than I should be and you provide good entertainment. And oh yeah, Amarr Empire isn't the only one under attack by the Sansha, but I guess you're going to be like Veto and wait until they attack you specifically before you do anything worth actually talking about. Your attempts to paint yourself in a brighter light after the truth comes out that...well, you actually support someone who supports Sansha so it's really...I don't know; counter-intuitive? I'd be really frustrated right now if I was one of your pilots... ------------------------------------------------
Cheiftan Minmatar Shinryaku Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 13:20:00 - [58] Quote: First I should say for the sake of clarity that I have never believed your personal claims on opposition to Slavery. You fought for I-RED What you feel of me is irrelevant with on offence intended by this statement during my time with I-RED their was allot of political reform that meant that liberated slaves would be freed and sent back to their familyÆs. My failure was the inability to create slave free zones in providenceà But my failure as a diplomat is again irrelevant. Quote: No. I will not defend the Amarrian Empire against an entity that it encouraged and empowered and shares many of the same cultural forms and intrinsic ideals. I consider a weakened Amarrian Empire is the best thing we can hope from recent Nation intervention. I believe you have miss understood me here, I am asking weather you feel taking action against people who are defending the amarr empire is wrong given the fact that they are defending empire in general and not one specific race. Quote: And you are claiming what? That slaves of the Amarrian Empire retain their "free will?" That the glaive and vitoc infection encourage independent thought? That transcraniel microcontrollers are somehow different from Sansha implants? That religious brainwashing is different from cult brainwashing? No, I make no such claim however I argue that, people who come from the shadows steal you children your brothers your sisters and your parents before disappearing again and knowing that they face nothing but a lobotomy is a sad thought. However I acknowledge and accept this point
Eran Mintor Minmatar Ddial Chan Annwn Annwn Matari	Posted - 2010.06.30 13:28:00 - [59] I apologize in advance, Cheiftan, for changing the course of conversation, but I believe you will understand... Originally by: Cheiftan Quote: No. I will not defend the Amarrian Empire against an entity that it encouraged and empowered and shares many of the same cultural forms and intrinsic ideals. I consider a weakened Amarrian Empire is the best thing we can hope from recent Nation intervention. I believe you have miss understood me here, I am asking weather you feel taking action against people who are defending the amarr empire is wrong given the fact that they are defending empire in general and not one specific race. Replace "Amarr/Empire" with "home" and then respond. ------------------------------------------------
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.06.30 13:47:00 - [60] Originally by: Eran Mintor Aside from SHY's history with I-RED where they freed a few million slaves as a result of peaceful actions, where U'K has freed...who knows, maybe a few million, and killed the rest out of stubbornness... I don't think lying about the Ushra'khan's results in the war against Amarrian slavery is the best way to open your commentary race-traitor. Who are you trying to persuade here? Quote: Your attempts to paint yourself in a brighter light after the truth comes out that...well, you actually support someone who supports Sansha so it's really...I don't know; counter-intuitive? Revan Neferis has engaged mercenaries to attack capsuleer organizations defending the Amarrian Empire from Sansha incursions. That is her choice to do so. Her aggression was targeted at Amarrian interests so it is no surprise to for me to see an Amarrian sympathizer trying to paint this as a blanket support of the Nation over a specific attack on the Empire. Quote: I'd be really frustrated right now if I was one of your pilots... I hardly see why since the free captains of the Star Fraction are fully entitled to engage Nation vessels anywhere they chose at personal discretion. I have said my own opinion is that I would be extremely unlikely to stand with Amarrian Nationalists to defend Amarrian worlds but every single pilot of the Fraction is free to make their own choices on this issue and Nation starships are KOS anywhere in known space. Chatsubo RP Discussion

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