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Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.26 20:31:00 - [1] Are the mineral prices ever going to go back up? i run 3 miners all from mining veld and plag and selling the refined ore. its getting harder and harder to buy plex each month, will there ever be an end to this depression?
israus	Posted - 2010.07.26 20:34:00 - [2] not unless you stop mining :D
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.26 20:37:00 - [3] i noticed i wasnt helping the problem get any better so i started making battleships but i would rather just sell the ore
Zenon Mu Advanced Assemblies and Sciences	Posted - 2010.07.26 20:41:00 - [4] even better: build battlecruisers, T1 weapons and start killing your competition in the next belt
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.26 21:54:00 - [5] how can i make mineral prices go up?
Azelle Storm'Eye	Posted - 2010.07.26 21:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Travesty T how can i make mineral prices go up? Viagra ?
Sazkyen State War Academy	Posted - 2010.07.26 22:07:00 - [7] Edited by: Sazkyen on 26/07/2010 22:07:26 Everyone stop mining for one day. If we're lucky we'll see the spike in a few months... -SIG- Ship comparison
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.07.26 22:14:00 - [8] Mineral prices were artificially held up by insurance payouts. Now the market is free, the prices will drop until people stop mining because it becomes too unprofitable. Prices are still dropping, so equilibrium hasn't yet been met. Another unfortunate side effect is many people's response to falling prices is bring more accounts online to mine, which will just bring more minerals in to the game and drop prices faster.
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.26 22:17:00 - [9] so how many miners could eve support?
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.07.26 22:25:00 - [10] There's no way to answer a question like that... All I can tell you are the fundamentals driving the market behavior. Minerals were artificially inflated due to insurance fraud, and now that insurance is linked to mineral prices, supply/demand will bring mineral prices to where they should have been all along. Where that will be is subject to debate. Here's a graph, make your own conclusions: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4027/forgemin21july.gif
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.07.26 23:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Travesty T so how many miners could eve support? Unlimited. Mining was never profitable, you're better off doing missions or getting into more advanced industrial profession Store
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.07.26 23:51:00 - [12] Mining = lim Zero Risk. => More players => More mining => Lower prices FIX Aggression and risk reward distribution. Ex. Reduced response of concord in belts and plexes. Allow cooldown on security status, or easier re-entry into high sec. Allow free aggression from players of HIGH security. Ex. +5 shoots a -5 The winner shifts the security status thus converting a small amount into his status. Criminal win => +4.75 vs. -6. If the difference between pilot and system security is above 5 shooting is free for all, but gates and stations wont aggress unless the criminal is further than 10 from system security. More roaming and more player created justice and crime. The low sec barrier atm is segregating players to much.. ^^NEEDs tweaking on balance.. but basically a more dynamic system would be really nice. PVP is good GRIEFING is bad.. Question is where does one change into the other.. Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge ****tails and Dreams.
israus	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:15:00 - [13] I find it kind of funny really when CCP accounced the loot nerf they said that the mission runners would get less loot but because the ore was going to be worth more they wouldn't lose out any LMAO somebody at CCP need's there head examaning problem is CCP have spent the last few years increasing the supply of minerals to the market. hidden belts, increased veld spawn rates, drone regions. but don't add anything extra to really to use that ore one. last 2 sets of goodys we've had t3 ships and PI all use new items added to the market for them. so till CCP find more ways to dump minerals the mineral basket as such will remain poor.
Vasaczk	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Travesty T Are the mineral prices ever going to go back up? i run 3 miners all from mining veld and plag and selling the refined ore. its getting harder and harder to buy plex each month, will there ever be an end to this depression? What makes you think the prices should go up?
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:26:00 - [15] they should go up so people who like to mine will keep playing. maybe if they increased the mineral cost to build ships it would help
Vasaczk	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Travesty T they should go up so people who like to mine will keep playing. maybe if they increased the mineral cost to build ships it would help Why do you mine?
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:33:00 - [17] because i like mining
Vasaczk	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Travesty T because i like mining Then, what does it matter how much you get for your ore/minerals?
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:42:00 - [19] because i have to buy plex to be able to play
Skadi vonNiflheim	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Travesty T because i like mining Cammon dude dont lie, every1 knos mining is as entertaining as STDs. By u having 3 miners ur part of the problem not the solution. The only way to raise the prices if for one day or even a wekk if all the miners stoped. In that week the ship and mods demand will sky rocket coz no 1 has any ore to make them out of and after that week ul be making double the isk. Or... this just work mabe, if all the miners came down to low sec 2 mine. Then the your sacrifice will be remembered for ending the res session.
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.27 00:56:00 - [21] there is no way to get all the miners to stop mining for any amount of time and even if they did they probably have minerals stored up that they are just waiting to sell.
Vasaczk	Posted - 2010.07.27 01:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Travesty T because i have to buy plex to be able to play Look I have a certain amount of sympathy for you because of the existence of macros, but come on man, if you like it that much, then why don't you pay for it like a whole bunch of the population (including myself)?
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.07.27 01:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Travesty T there is no way to get all the miners to stop mining for any amount of time and even if they did they probably have minerals stored up that they are just waiting to sell. There is an overabundance of miners because mining is ludicrously easy. It requires close to no attention. It's trivial to macro it, and if you're unwilling to do that, you can still spend the bulk of the time completely AFK. It takes what, a month or so to get a new character into a Hulk? Minerals are selling for what they're worth. If that's a problem for you, I recommend finding another profession. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Travesty T	Posted - 2010.07.27 01:05:00 - [24] i think the only real solution would be to double or even triple the amount of minerals from high sec needed for production.
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.07.27 01:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Travesty T i think the only real solution would be to double or even triple the amount of minerals from high sec needed for production. So that would mean it would take about 3 freighters full of minerals to make a single carrier, effectively punishing manufacturers for the fact that miners are too stupid to get into a more lucrative profession. Yeah, no. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Henri Rearden Gallente XII Legion Southern Connection	Posted - 2010.07.27 01:20:00 - [26] I don't think mineral prices have been down far enough for long enough to justify any changes in module recipes or anything else. It is undeniable that there are too many miners. When more players change their gaming behavior and choose to mission or some other type of income, then prices will rise. Otherwise, miners will simply fall to and remain at the bottom of the economic strata.
Droxlyn Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.27 01:55:00 - [27] Remember, every 3 months or so, the Insurance payout resets to a new value based off of some price history of the minerals. So even if the prices fall to a new Insurance Exchange rate, it won't last long and the falling mineral prices will resume. Ultimately, the price floor is 0.01 per unit of mineral. Drox
Ari Chu	Posted - 2010.07.27 02:21:00 - [28] Make changes so that Bots have a helluva time mining. Might not make the OP happy - but it would likely increase mineral prices. --- "The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers.
Urich VonWolfenstein	Posted - 2010.07.27 03:23:00 - [29] The miners are just being to greedy. ffs u round the market and now ur crying. There is now way to fix this now. If ur finding that u no longer can make any cash, use the resorses u mine to make ships. And not jsut BS coz there to expencive for people, drakes canes and myrm. these are some of the most frequently lost ships in pvp and demand is always high. Face it its gona take months or years to recover the ore market and ur beter off investing your time in2 something profitable while u can
Jonna Bluemoon	Posted - 2010.07.27 04:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Travesty T because i have to buy plex to be able to play Get a job?
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.07.27 05:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Droxlyn Remember, every 3 months or so, the Insurance payout resets to a new value based off of some price history of the minerals. So even if the prices fall to a new Insurance Exchange rate, it won't last long and the falling mineral prices will resume. Ultimately, the price floor is 0.01 per unit of mineral. Drox The insurance changes were clearly going to lower the value of minerals. As you say, due to the insurance resets, they will continue to drop akthough they may plateau until the next insurance reset. But I don't think the floor is 0.01; the floor is when mcr mining 23x7 all month won't pay for a plex. I.e., a bot making $0.10 per hour would generate over 2 plex per month. So at existing plex prices, upper end miners would make a couple of million ISK per hour. Unless b*ts doing 30 minute PI cycles (which has 2000% the yield of 96 hr) can pay for the plex and profit and mining is just incremental income and it could go lower. A new Unholy Rage could change things though. Fewer people legitimately mining may not have the expected impact on the amount of minerals being mined. "may you live in interesting times"
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.27 10:09:00 - [32] Easy to do Easy to access Good income Pick any 2. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.07.27 10:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Mining = lim Zero Risk. => More players => More mining => Lower prices FIX Aggression and risk reward distribution. Ex. Reduced response of concord in belts and plexes. Allow cooldown on security status, or easier re-entry into high sec. Allow free aggression from players of HIGH security. Ex. +5 shoots a -5 The winner shifts the security status thus converting a small amount into his status. Criminal win => +4.75 vs. -6. If the difference between pilot and system security is above 5 shooting is free for all, but gates and stations wont aggress unless the criminal is further than 10 from system security. More roaming and more player created justice and crime. The low sec barrier atm is segregating players to much.. ^^NEEDs tweaking on balance.. but basically a more dynamic system would be really nice. PVP is good GRIEFING is bad.. Question is where does one change into the other.. This post is so bad, don¦t know where to start. Go and biomass your ganking alt as everybody else does when sec status is ruined, not even ccp cares. Shooting a defenceless barge/exhumer is NOT PVP (player vs. player, as the other "vs." has not fitted any weapons to his ship). Go away.
beautyispain	Posted - 2010.07.27 11:39:00 - [34] Originally by: Travesty T Are the mineral prices ever going to go back up? i run 3 miners all from mining veld and plag and selling the refined ore. its getting harder and harder to buy plex each month, will there ever be an end to this depression? What you need is to find yourself a producer to deal with directly. What minerals are you selling and what¦s the monthly volume?
Zenon Mu Advanced Assemblies and Sciences	Posted - 2010.07.27 13:21:00 - [35] You're mining to buy plex, which means your ISK generating activity is tied to time in the first place (not fun or pvp or whatever). You have certain online times (capped) and a certain goal (1plex/month) to meet. In the end you get an ISK/h value above which your account is sustainable and below, not. I also understand that mining is an underpaid profession. My advice is that you start to raise your ISK/h value. Right now you mine and sell minerals. You can make more ISK/h by starting to manufacture (e.g. ships) in the case that [manufactured good] - [input materials from sell orders + BPC] > [selling minerals through sell orders] (I hope this is correct ;) ) Also, these two activities are not mutually exclusive, that means you can manufacture and mine at the same time.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.07.27 13:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Mining = lim Zero Risk. => More players => More mining => Lower prices FIX Aggression and risk reward distribution. Ex. Reduced response of concord in belts and plexes. Allow cooldown on security status, or easier re-entry into high sec. Allow free aggression from players of HIGH security. Ex. +5 shoots a -5 The winner shifts the security status thus converting a small amount into his status. Criminal win => +4.75 vs. -6. If the difference between pilot and system security is above 5 shooting is free for all, but gates and stations wont aggress unless the criminal is further than 10 from system security. More roaming and more player created justice and crime. The low sec barrier atm is segregating players to much.. ^^NEEDs tweaking on balance.. but basically a more dynamic system would be really nice. PVP is good GRIEFING is bad.. Question is where does one change into the other.. Reduced Concord Response, No, I think it needs to be high because this would effect EVERYONE not just miners. After all, if I knew I could pop someone and get away from concord in time I'd pop anyone that bumped me. Allow cool-down, as long as it's long enough. I think a short cool down wouldn't really be effective. Tears from care bears are sweet, drinking too many will only make you sick. 5+ Range of sec status = Concord free shooting. While I would absolutely LOVE this idea, since I have a 5.4 Sec Status I would be able to camp Jita and kill everyone for a long time before. How if I kill someone and I don't get Concorded, but loose sec, I could get behind that, as long as I can't sit in the high-sec side of a low-sec system and kill anyone coming in for hours on end I can get behind it. (Although that would be a classic) What I would like to see is "passive" expansion / reduction of low-sec. Imagine this... The current high-sec space is all reduced down to 0.5 sec in which concord will showup, for each concord ship that shows up the sec-status goes up by 0.01. It will continue to go up until it reaches 1.0. Or some sort of increase in sec-status related to crime rates. As Crime increases so does System Security. More to that point so do the surrounding systems on a lower scale. For example if a 0.5 gets so much crime it is raised a whole 1 point, each connecting system is raised 0.01. The end result is, some high-sec systems connected to low-sec systems could see enough crime in order to raise the nearby low-sec system as much as 0.05, which unless the low-sec system is 0.39 would turn it into a 0.5 sec system. Then basically that system is now high-sec space. Like wise, if a low-sec system sees a lot of gate camping as crime rate increases so does system sec. If enough crime happens you could get a 0.1 increase enough to push the low-sec system into high-sec status. HOWEVER it can go the other way as well. If Crime doesn't happen, the system-sec is slowly decreased, so what was one a backwater safe haven could be lowered into low-sec system as zero crime happens there. The point... If you really wanted to create a secure highway to say Solitude, all that needs to happen is you lose enough ships in the few systems that connect it to the rest of high-sec. And pirates wanting to keep their low-sec system low-sec need to keep their pirate activities moving. Or they could literally cripple another pirate organization by going and camping their system for a few day. This wouldn't be limited to just High-sec Low-sec space, 0.0 could be effected to, an alliance maintains a constant kill rate of n00bs or alts out at 0.0 could turn their base "high-sec" this way. (Not that I think anyone would, and it would have to be very low increases because of wars) Clearly this idea comes with a mountain of holes and bad ideas, but it's more of something to build on. I like the idea that high-sec could become low and low could become high given the crime rates but thinking it out it's not that simple. Amarr for Life
Rhivre Caldari TarNec manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.07.27 14:41:00 - [37] Originally by: My Postman This post is so bad, don¦t know where to start. Go and biomass your ganking alt as everybody else does when sec status is ruined, not even ccp cares. Shooting a defenceless barge/exhumer is NOT PVP (player vs. player, as the other "vs." has not fitted any weapons to his ship). Go away. Quoting for posterity. Gotta be the first time anyone has ever suggested that Caleb actually undocks Even more shocking suggesting Caleb does PvP
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.07.27 14:44:00 - [38] Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 27/07/2010 14:45:13 Originally by: Zenon Mu I also understand that mining is an underpaid profession. Mining is not underpaid. Mining pays what it is worth. Originally by: SencneS Reduced Concord Response, No, I think it needs to be high because this would effect EVERYONE not just miners. After all, if I knew I could pop someone and get away from concord in time I'd pop anyone that bumped me. "Reduced Concord response" does not mean "time to escape from concord". You cannot escape from concord. Doing so is considered an exploit. A slower response time would simply increase the probability of the other guy going kaboom before concord pops you. It would not allow you to escape. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Alotta Fachina	Posted - 2010.07.27 15:50:00 - [39] I think they should reduce the amount of ore in belts by about 75% That would choke the available minerals and make them more valuable. You won't be able to stop macros sadly. Where there is a will there is a way. But think about that...either that or reduce the yield per laser.
Ron Livingston	Posted - 2010.07.27 16:23:00 - [40] First off.. I'm a miner. When I started eve I thought that I would get some mining skills so I could mine to pay for my pvp. What a silly little noob I was. If I had focused on my combat skills I would have made much more doing missions. Oh well. The reason for all the miner whines is that mining makes **** for money, especially when compared to other activities that are just as risk free like high sec missioning. This lack of isk doesn't really bother me.. I live in WH currently and mainly use my indy character to make stuff for my pvp character to be a bit more selfsufficent. To the OP.. why run 3 miners to pay for 3 accounts.. why not just 1 to pay for 1 account. If more people followed suit then maybe miners would make a little more. CCP ending Macros would be great.. not that it would instantly make mining more profitable but it would end people making isk while sleeping which annoys me. Something that could be done to stop miner whines... CCP could add more mining missions that actually have good isk/LP rewards that require lots of minerals. This would help stabilize miner income, and the mineral prices would eventually rise to comparable values due to lact minerals because the miners would be running missions. So CCP could almost pick the mineral costs.. and mineral prices would be different based on closness to the mining mission hubs.
Urich VonWolfenstein	Posted - 2010.07.28 02:09:00 - [41] Originally by: Alotta Fachina I think they should reduce the amount of ore in belts by about 75% That would choke the available minerals and make them more valuable. You won't be able to stop macros sadly. Where there is a will there is a way. But think about that...either that or reduce the yield per laser. I think this is the only logic answer to this problem. Reducing belts sizes by half would make it more scares and eventually raise the price of minerals. also it will encourage low sec mining ops or ninja mining that will be more interesting for pirates and miners since it prevents people afk mining, with the ship losses from pvprs and miners the ship market will boom and demand for minerals will rise dramatically. Anyway u look at it its a win win isk for miners and kills for pirates
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.07.28 02:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Urich VonWolfenstein I think this is the only logic answer to this problem. I am pretty sure that it isn't actually established to be a problem - at least, not one that needs to be addressed in the game's design. It's ridiculous that people seem to think they are entitled to a certain level of income, and entitled to have that level be reachable by their profession of choice. If a given activity isn't paying out as much as you want it to, do what the rest of us do: Find a new activity. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Mensche	Posted - 2010.07.28 07:15:00 - [43] Way back, when my character was young, mineral prices were much different then they are now. Trit was less than a 1 isk and nocx was over 250. It was actually more profitable to mine jaspet. This is what the developers want, to make people leave highsec. There isn't a depression in mineral prices, just the beginning of the end for the mineral boom you're accustomed to. If highsec mining isn't cutting it for you, join a low/nullsec corp and get something more valuable to mine. Or expand your capabilities so you're not dependent on mining.
Urich VonWolfenstein	Posted - 2010.07.28 07:50:00 - [44] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Originally by: Urich VonWolfenstein I think this is the only logic answer to this problem. I am pretty sure that it isn't actually established to be a problem - at least, not one that needs to be addressed in the game's design. It's ridiculous that people seem to think they are entitled to a certain level of income, and entitled to have that level be reachable by their profession of choice. If a given activity isn't paying out as much as you want it to, do what the rest of us do: Find a new activity. I dont mine nor mission and its not a problem for me, just it would solve alot of these delemas. high sec will become a fist come 1st serve in the belts and miners dont go out in2 low sec to mine so eventualy the prices will rise for them and alot will take a risk in2 low sec, then the mass loses of mining barges will increase the demand for minerals and the economy will get back 2 normal...well thats wat i think so fell free to prove me wrong. oh like some1 said just join a low sec minning corp, thy pay well i hear. But still im not a miner, but id recon it will be way more fun with a bit off thrill and live in it rather then this afk can filling rubish
Xereyn	Posted - 2010.07.28 08:46:00 - [45] Originally by: Urich VonWolfenstein high sec will become a fist come 1st serve in the belts Hey, awesome. In my timezone downtime is at 7pm - it'll just be me and the macros. Those belts will be nothing but dust by the time the Europeans get home from work, and as for the Americans - they'll never see an asteroid again. CAN YOU SEE THE FLAW IN THIS IDEA YET
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.07.28 11:18:00 - [46] Edited by: Companion Trollin on 28/07/2010 11:23:46 This is the best MD troll thread in a good while, n1 m8. edit: The entitlement kids in this thread who think it's a problem that minerals "aren't worth what I think they should be" are also pretty comic. Get over yourselves - think harder and come up with a new business model instead of lobbying for someone to fix your problems by changing the market for you. **ing sheeple. ♥ Originally by:** CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Cyniac	Posted - 2010.07.28 12:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Travesty T i think the only real solution would be to double or even triple the amount of minerals from high sec needed for production. Hmm... not sure this would have the intended effect to be honest. Sure demand would seem to go up, but so would supply. More nefarious - if ships become too expensive ship turnover will decrease (people might just get a tad more careful) which might have the opposite effect and you end up with more expensive ships and cheaper minerals to make them (albeit, more of them). Reducing supply by making the life of the macro miner fractionally harder would be more likely to give you the desired effect.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.07.28 14:12:00 - [48] Originally by: My Postman Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Mining = lim Zero Risk. => More players => More mining => Lower prices FIX Aggression and risk reward distribution. Ex. Reduced response of concord in belts and plexes. Allow cooldown on security status, or easier re-entry into high sec. Allow free aggression from players of HIGH security. Ex. +5 shoots a -5 The winner shifts the security status thus converting a small amount into his status. Criminal win => +4.75 vs. -6. If the difference between pilot and system security is above 5 shooting is free for all, but gates and stations wont aggress unless the criminal is further than 10 from system security. More roaming and more player created justice and crime. The low sec barrier atm is segregating players to much.. ^^NEEDs tweaking on balance.. but basically a more dynamic system would be really nice. PVP is good GRIEFING is bad.. Question is where does one change into the other.. This post is so bad, don¦t know where to start. Go and biomass your ganking alt as everybody else does when sec status is ruined, not even ccp cares. Shooting a defenceless barge/exhumer is NOT PVP (player vs. player, as the other "vs." has not fitted any weapons to his ship). Go away. I agree with you, CALEB go back to C and P, we don't need your griefer tactics in here! Also postmans argument is valid, because my hair is shaped as a falcon!
NoChance Lance	Posted - 2010.07.28 14:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Urich VonWolfenstein high sec will become a fist come 1st serve Fisting rarely, if ever, does that to me. _______________________________________________ I'm not afraid of anything or anyone, unless they are wearing a mask. Diego Maradona 2010
ZenSun Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.07.28 18:44:00 - [50] Veldspar should move, you get in the way of one of those hulking formations of rock and you get a bruised hulk..
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.07.28 20:24:00 - [51] Originally by: ZenSun Veldspar should move, you get in the way of one of those hulking formations of rock and you get a bruised hulk.. Hey, that's a good idea. While you're at it I think miners should have to wrangle veldspar - maybe lasso it or herd it into a canyon, before they can mine it. Oh, and miners should have to ride their hulks - with saddles and stuff, yeah, that'd be awesome. Can I have some spurs and a pair of chaps now? ♥ Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.07.28 22:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Companion Trollin Originally by: ZenSun Veldspar should move, you get in the way of one of those hulking formations of rock and you get a bruised hulk.. Hey, that's a good idea. While you're at it I think miners should have to wrangle veldspar - maybe lasso it or herd it into a canyon, before they can mine it. Oh, and miners should have to ride their hulks - with saddles and stuff, yeah, that'd be awesome. Can I have some spurs and a pair of chaps now? SInce Ji is absent.. I will relay his reply.. REPORTED! Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge ****tails and Dreams.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2010.07.28 22:30:00 - [53] My solution would be to have items that drop from missions and such reprocess into parts for TII items instead of minerals. I reprocessed a bunch of crap that I had in hangers the other day and even with craptastic reprocessing skills I got over 200 mil in minerals from it. Now multiply that by all of the other people that reprocess junk into mins and it's hitting the miners hard. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
Danielle Darrieux	Posted - 2010.07.29 06:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Xereyn Originally by: Urich VonWolfenstein high sec will become a fist come 1st serve in the belts Hey, awesome. In my timezone downtime is at 7pm - it'll just be me and the macros. Those belts will be nothing but dust by the time the Europeans get home from work, and as for the Americans - they'll never see an asteroid again. CAN YOU SEE THE FLAW IN THIS IDEA YET geas thy can hit the low sec belts then lol
Danari Syncore	Posted - 2010.07.29 08:36:00 - [55] I don't see the issue. Plex float like everything else. Miner earns less isk and buys price-dropped things with it.
Smelly Bait	Posted - 2010.07.29 11:06:00 - [56] Edited by: Smelly Bait on 29/07/2010 11:08:15 Its so easy, fix lag and more supercaps will be blown up, more dead super caps is increased min prices. Before this happends u do have to wait for 18 month's since ccp dont care about fixing the lag and 0.0 warefare. Most mins consumed out of high sec/drone regions/refine loot ends up in 0.0 trough BS (cta's ect), caps, super caps, mods Before someone is going to say do empire puppies dont use bs's ect. I say yes they do but most build them selve and with all the mission guides around i dont see alot of bs's destoyed by mission npc's.
Dred Control	Posted - 2010.07.29 17:15:00 - [57] Originally by: Brock Nelson Originally by: Travesty T so how many miners could eve support? Unlimited. Mining was never profitable, you're better off doing missions or getting into more advanced industrial profession Mining was never profitable?! What are you smoking? Maybe what you really meant is that L4 missions or other industrial professions are MORE profitable per unit time spent playing Eve.
Haigon Jr	Posted - 2010.08.03 07:07:00 - [58] a way to do is make sure you can only mine veldspar and scordite in high sec. that will allow more people in low sec/null sec and it will keep macro players out
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.08.03 07:45:00 - [59] Quote: i think the only real solution would be to double or even triple the amount of minerals from high sec needed for production Nope, all you'll see is people re-activating dusted mining accounts and start mining again. It's market, if anyone see an opportunity, zillions of lemmings will soon follow and crash it, regardless of how you or CCP try to counter it. Quote: I don't think mineral prices have been down far enough for long enough to justify any changes in module recipes or anything else. It is undeniable that there are too many miners. There are not too many miners, there are too many idiots and of course this is incurable. This is not real life where you have to make a living on whatever your (mis)fortune tosses at you. This is a game with tons of opportunities and simil-player driven market that penalizes stupid lemmings that cannot even calculate they earn a pittance or even have losses (some reactions, several T2 ships...). It's actually a genuine fun to see people struggling to lose, without a single brain cell pushing them to ask why others are making billions on their shoulders. Because if real life you might be forced to slave-wages, you are NOT forced to do the same in a video game (where you actually pay it). Quote: I think this is the only logic answer to this problem. Reducing belts sizes by half would make it more scares and eventually raise the price of minerals. also it will encourage low sec mining ops or ninja mining that will be more interesting for pirates and miners since it prevents people afk mining Not at all. All you get (I have been there in the past!) is that hugemassive hulks fleet log in at server restart time and clean the belts in 4 hours like before middle of 2009 and everyone in non EU time zones would simply be screwed over and always find empty systems. Quote: a way to do is make sure you can only mine veldspar and scordite in high sec. that will allow more people in low sec/null sec and it will keep macro players out Just a reminder about how large 0.0 zones and also smaller renter zones are all about macros. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.03 08:01:00 - [60] Cheap minerals, mmm....mine boys, mine! Stop whining.
Murauke EvE Rookie Collective	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:10:00 - [61] Edited by: Murauke on 03/08/2010 12:15:22 May be CCP should look at having the ability to differientiate. e.g. in RL there are different grades of steel and metal etc. Although you can mine different types of veldspar it be good if you grade your minerial, that minerial would then be used to make ships and affect different characteristics. Mined ore and refined to Metal 1 attr. Agility 1.25% Mined ore and refined to Metal 2 attr. EM Resistance 0.75% Mined ore and refined to Metal 3 attr. Scan Res 1.75% When you make the ships or modules they carry different plus and minus and that way you can differientiate your service. At the moment anybody can mine which means there is a massive over supply. Put simply why do i buy a drill (a) from there when there is a drill (b) over there that will do the same thing. drill (a) is more expensive and has been manufactured with top quality Raw Materials, Drill B hasnt and is cheaper but is more prone to breaking.
Wanteh Intakiz	Posted - 2010.08.03 12:35:00 - [62] How bout this: High sec belts only repsawn once per week. Low sec belts respawn every second day. 0.0 belts respawn daily. Then throw in some mining missions for the miners who refuse to leave high sec.
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.08.03 14:34:00 - [63] Move all high sec belts to randomly placed deadspace with a few rats. They get moved every downtime and refilled. Unless someone shows me otherwise, I'm convinced you can't macro 3d space movement (remember you need to move the camera and 4 probes trough 3d space to probe something several times. This isnt just reading the 2D UI for letter/number shaped objects. Probing belts means you have to physically drag the probes trough 3 planes. Lowsec belts and 0.0 belts are unaffected by this, they simple have random 10x better belts in dead space once and a while. Sure RMT's could use probe characters to probe a belt for their macro fleet, but it's a significant extra hassle then just installing the macro program on a pc, boot eve and be done with it. Especially if belts move every downtime. ___ Space for Rent, free beer for signature, preferably with colours! (no pink)
Lucyna Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.08.03 20:15:00 - [64] This could or could not be a troll thread, but I'll bite anyway (it's old enough and the discussion has shifted enough to make it interesting to me). One way to cater towards the legit miners is make mining harder to macro. All my knowledge of this is based on reading S&I a lot back in the day and I'm not saying that I have the best ideas. They used to discuss this, so I have a few borrowed ideas. So, for instance, 1.) Similar to post above. 2.) You have to look at something and manually calibrate mining lasers to maximize yield. Or manually place lasers on the right spot for maximum ore (think PI) 3.) Remove asteroids (not asteroid belts) from overview and make it so the asteroids move a lot around the asteroid plane. 4.) Another active system? 5.) ??? 6.) Profit. Of course, I don't touch the profession myself. I sold off a mining char a long while back (2+ years), after I hit hulk I decided that it was more worth it to me to sell the char than to keep mining with her. Honestly, though, I think this discussion belongs more in S&I with similar topics, or in Features and Ideas Discussion. Just to stay pertinent to MD, what would you guys think would be the impact of making it a.) harder to macro- and b.) impossible (like that will ever happen) to macro-mine?
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2010.08.03 22:49:00 - [65] I'm looking to get into cap ships soon. Plummeting mineral prices please me
Sjugar	Posted - 2010.08.04 01:53:00 - [66] Originally by: Travesty T because i have to buy plex to be able to play Well, you could train your characters to run missions, make a lot of ISK doing those missions, buy the plex you need and after that, do what you think is fun: mine as much as you want without having to worry about that plex.
Denidil Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn	Posted - 2010.08.04 03:01:00 - [67] Originally by: Ron Livingston CCP could add more mining missions that actually have good isk/LP rewards that require lots of minerals. This would help stabilize miner income, and the mineral prices would eventually rise to comparable values due to lact minerals because the miners would be running missions. So CCP could almost pick the mineral costs.. and mineral prices would be different based on closness to the mining mission hubs. That, right there. that is the first idea in this thread that could actually get miners away from mining marketable ores. make it more profitable in combined payout (LP value + isk) to do mining missions. that would create a new effective floor on the value - but one that is more dynamic as it involves a non-fraudulent decision by the people involved in mining. and make those higher payout mining missions require having invested in getting your mining skills - ie you must use this special-issue mining crystal (issued by the mission) that requires you have access to Tech 2 Jaspet crystals, etc.
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire	Posted - 2010.08.04 03:31:00 - [68] Everyone in this thread should make it their personal responsbility to whine in every lag thread they see. The lag and the consequences of no large scale combat are why your precious mineral prices are falling. When COAD is a ghost town you know mineral prices will keep falling. If you think as an empire dweller that 0.0 lag doesnt affect you think again...
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec manufacturing disaster	Posted - 2010.08.04 12:16:00 - [69] Its a bit of a problem that people seem to always come back to the "hardcore" solution to the mining balance issues.. OFC changing spawnrates to shift players into lower security and getting more ships blown up will increase mineral prices. Its just not a very gameplay inspiring method. What is very much at the core of this issue is risk/reward, and yes increasing risk dramatically will be sort of a solution, and changing spawns would deplete things, so we are back at supply/demand issues. However in resource availability the main thing should be balancing toward planing and effort. We have to much EASY AFKING on the ORE and MISSIONS. As a PVE element its way to simple to take equipment into space and just sit there. Especially when you can afford the higher tiered equipment. This shifts the game towards the barrier of "macroing".. I honestly believe that the lack of "interaction" and active keyboard time is very much an issue in price developments. Suggested solution: Dont entirely remove the option of afking missions and mining, but make the yields of it seriously reduced. Example of mechanics. STEP 1 Make ORE roids respawn based on how many times it gets targetted. Let Roids never be removed from the belts, thus being static in the belt composition. If the Item in the game remains the same there is no need for update BW and mechanically, and this might help lag. STEP 2 The thing that should change is its content only. The content of roids should then be more then one type of ORE. So in effect its a mix. Use the three variants of each ore to spread and balance behaviour. So when you mine a VELDspar roid the first cycles should give the high tiered variant, and then later only the basic one. So a roid could have 2% high end, 8% medium, and 90% low end. STEP 3 When refining the variants the yield should be static on the basic types only. The yield of medium and high end variants should be more dynamic and chance based. Thus granting small amounts of higher end minerals. The bigger the stack the higher the chance to yield a trace amounts of high end minerals. But wont that reduce price of higher end minerals? Yes and No. Since it will make active mining more relevant the miners chosing to shift the targets actively will get an isk/hour advantage over afking. The influx of the higher end yields can be rebalanced easier from ccp side depending on need. Since its supposedly random, this will not be gamebreaking to gameplay and game strategy. It will be a tool and a big nob for ccp to turn as they see fit. In short the importance of a fine tuning of the difference between FORAGING/HUNTING and FARMING, is extremely high. THe difference between the two activities need to be looked at. FARMING is PASSIVE and should be less valuable then HUNTING. This goes for mining and missioning both. Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge cocktails and Dreams.
Isbe	Posted - 2010.08.04 21:04:00 - [70] I read most of the posts, pretty standard stuff. Since everyone else chimed in, here's my three cents' worth: Cent 1) If you enjoy mining but can't afford the plex/month on your current income, figure out that other pursuits can also be fun and are likely more profitable. I am all geared up for mining, but grinding L4 missions makes me a lot more ISK/hr, and therefore I'm also all geared up for soloing L4s. It doesn't take a whole lot of time to get properly skilled to run L4s, or manufacture ships and ammo, or play the market on the side, or take advantage of PI, etc. For me, if I want to make money, I run missions, done. Maybe you should give it a whirl. Cent 2) Folks suggest a lot of ways to "improve" or "fix" highsec mining, or make it more difficult, etc., and thus worth a higher reward. All the ways suggested are interesting, but there's an even better way, one which is already part of the game but perhaps CCP hasn't properly utilized/balanced/implemented. Now, we know that 0.0 mining (ABC ores, etc.) is way more profitable than highsec, but also a whole lot harder to get established in (especially the part about being pals with a 0.0 alliance to be able to mine in relative safety). Highsec mining is just fine as it is, no issues with it. Instead of making it more profitable and also more dangerous, leave it alone, but finally actually do something for real to make lowsec worth entering. Do something to increase lowsec ore types (other than the trick with hemorph), which makes the non-bots actually have to move into lowsec to make their plexes. First, it makes mining more interesting. Second, it makes it more dangerous (a macro deterrent). Third, if CCP makes necessary changes, it will be more profitable. The progression OUGHT to be highsec (safe, relatively low ISK) < lowsec (somewhat dangerous (non-macro), and decent ISK) < null (hard to get established, but way more profitable, WH in here too). But since lowsec isn't at all worth mining in, the "next step" when highsec ceases to fill your wallet's needs isn't there, resulting in this kind of thread. Focus on lowsec for your solutions, CCP. 3) Other than making lowsec the stepping stone it ought to be but isn't, I can tell you CCP's already-in-place response to the glut of miners and its resultant flush market: sandbox. Listen. Too many miners? Macro miners or otherwise? Protect your investment, look out for your own interests. This game is designed from the ground up with a solution built-in, which requires no "fixing" from CCP. They've already fixed it; they've already given you your answer: PVP. If you don't like the glut of miners, get angry and do something about it. Either train up your PVP skills and start harassing your competition, or join a corp/alliance that will do it for you, or else stop whining. If you're not willing to protect your mining interests, not willing to stand up for your piece of the pie, not willing to claim your piece of turf by growing a backbone, showing some claws, and actually doing something about your competition, then I'm afraid you've decided to reject the solution that CCP has provided all along. Too many miners flooding the market with minerals? Roll up your sleeves and do something about it. That's our opinion; we welcome yours.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2010.08.04 21:37:00 - [71] Edited by: Pohbis on 04/08/2010 21:37:35 Originally by: Ron Livingston CCP could add more mining missions that actually have good isk/LP rewards that require lots of minerals. This would help stabilize miner income, and the mineral prices would eventually rise to comparable values due to lact minerals because the miners would be running missions. So CCP could almost pick the mineral costs.. and mineral prices would be different based on closness to the mining mission hubs. This. It can't be market-ores/minerals but there are allready mission-specific ores in-game so that shouldn't be a problem. Increase the ISK/LP reward for mining missions, and like another poster said, have them require specialized crystals with steeper skill requirements as the quality of the agents improve. Leave the market minerals to the macros, and put those that enjoy mining on the same pedestal as the lvl4 mission runners.
Ulf Raben Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.04 23:24:00 - [72] MINERAL PRICES ARE GOING DOWN .... BECAUSE ...OF SOME REASON ... CCP WANTS THEM TO GO DOWN .... IT IS CLAIMED THAT EVE IS A " SELF-BALANCED ECONOMY " THAT IS A BLOODY LIE ... even if CCP would like potential CUSTOMERS and the PRESS to think such is this game Anyone who has so much BRAINS that he can evaluate ...CAUSE ... and EFFECT and has played EVE On Line for some time should by now KNOW .. that CCP ... is MANIPULATING PRICES AS there are NO OTHER LOGICAL EXPLANATIONS ! If this should be a Slanderous allegation .. then ..CCP ... come forward ..and prove Your innocense ! Sense of Honour ... defines a MAN ... and a BUSINESS PRETENCE .. is an ANTI -THESIS ..of that ULF RABEN
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.08.04 23:41:00 - [73] Originally by: Guilliman R Move all high sec belts to randomly placed deadspace with a few rats. They get moved every downtime and refilled. Unless someone shows me otherwise, I'm convinced you can't macro 3d space movement (remember you need to move the camera and 4 probes trough 3d space to probe something several times. This isnt just reading the 2D UI for letter/number shaped objects. Probing belts means you have to physically drag the probes trough 3 planes. Lowsec belts and 0.0 belts are unaffected by this, they simple have random 10x better belts in dead space once and a while. Sure RMT's could use probe characters to probe a belt for their macro fleet, but it's a significant extra hassle then just installing the macro program on a pc, boot eve and be done with it. Especially if belts move every downtime. This is a great idea.
0hai	Posted - 2010.08.10 19:57:00 - [74] Edited by: 0hai on 10/08/2010 19:58:19 Originally by: Ulf Raben MINERAL PRICES ARE GOING DOWN .... BECAUSE ...OF SOME REASON ... CCP WANTS THEM TO GO DOWN .... IT IS CLAIMED THAT EVE IS A " SELF-BALANCED ECONOMY " THAT IS A BLOODY LIE ... even if CCP would like potential CUSTOMERS and the PRESS to think such is this game Anyone who has so much BRAINS that he can evaluate ...CAUSE ... and EFFECT and has played EVE On Line for some time should by now KNOW .. that CCP ... is MANIPULATING PRICES AS there are NO OTHER LOGICAL EXPLANATIONS ! If this should be a Slanderous allegation .. then ..CCP ... come forward ..and prove Your innocense ! Sense of Honour ... defines a MAN ... and a BUSINESS PRETENCE .. is an ANTI -THESIS ..of that ULF RABEN you mad? Originally by: Ulf Raben MINERAL PRICES ARE GOING DOWN .... BECAUSE ...OF SOME REASON ... CCP WANTS THEM TO GO DOWN .... Thank you Mrs. Kleo. Originally by: Ulf Raben IT IS CLAIMED THAT EVE IS A " SELF-BALANCED ECONOMY " THAT IS A BLOODY LIE ... even if CCP would like potential CUSTOMERS and the PRESS to think such is this game It's not perfect but lets face facts. It's the closest thing, and for the most part it works fairly well. Originally by: Ulf Raben Anyone who has so much BRAINS that he can evaluate ...CAUSE ... and EFFECT and has played EVE On Line for some time should by now KNOW .. that CCP ... is MANIPULATING PRICES AS there are NO OTHER LOGICAL EXPLANATIONS ! Firstly, these sentences barely make sense. Secondly, what would CCP's motive for controlling mineral prices? Originally by: Ulf Raben If this should be a Slanderous allegation .. then ..CCP ... come forward ..and prove Your innocense ! It's not slanderous, it's simply the ravings of someone with no legitimate evidence to back up his **amamie paranoid theories. Originally by:** Ulf Raben Sense of Honour ... defines a MAN ... and a BUSINESS PRETENCE .. is an ANTI -THESIS ..of that Says you. Bottom line, CCP's first and foremost responsibility is the viability of their company. Which, through the powers of deduction, would make manipulating mineral prices a pointless en devour. In theory, they would be doing it to make PLEX more difficult to purchase for miners, but, as it's been said, there are far more profitable things to do, which would mean that, should PLEX prices be their target, they would be nerfing that. Also, putting ... and sentence fragments doesn't help nobody. EDIT:Format. Originally by: Gladys Pank My erections will stand proud forever.
Berikath	Posted - 2010.08.10 20:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Travesty T because i have to buy plex to be able to play Mineral prices going up = mining becomes more profitable. Mining becomes more profitable = more people start mining. More people mining = higher supply of minerals. Higher supply of minerals = prices go down. See the problem? No, actually you don't, because you're competing with people who macromine whenever they aren't playing normally, and they don't really care how much they make- as long as it's more than a PLEX a month, they make a profit on it.

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