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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gian Bal
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Posted - 2005.01.25 13:39:00 -
[481]
just my oppinion, but a maybe solution is to enfasten assaults. there are more worthy bonuses of course, but if we begin to make all more powerfull it might become too unbalanced again. i would prefer dmgbonuses on assaults, too, but then they may become too strong :( . giving them a higher chance to reach an inty could probably solve their weakness against the new RAISED dmg ( i say it again, the dmg is not lowered. higher rof but higher dmg is MORE dot by using a dmgmod. especially taranis pilots will have one most likey, and many others will follow that lead) of intys.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.25 16:15:00 -
[482]
 Originally by: Hakera
ceptors are tacklers not killers, remove all offensive bonus and add tackling bonus tbh, assualt frigs are killers, you screw with af by making cepetors more uber.
Little too late for that don't ya think?
I don't use my ceptor to tackle, i use it to kill. It's been this way for a long ass time so please hush.
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Borzoi
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Posted - 2005.01.25 17:31:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Twi Xunigi
I was actually looking quite forward to the extra mid slot on the Ares, why did has it been changed?
You said just what i thought also, Ares been saying + 1 med slot for a long
time, how come its been changed to hi slot ??
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.01.25 18:53:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Hakera
ceptors are tacklers not killers, remove all offensive bonus and add tackling bonus tbh, assualt frigs are killers, you screw with af by making cepetors more uber.
Little too late for that don't ya think?
I don't use my ceptor to tackle, i use it to kill. It's been this way for a long ass time so please hush.
How is he late? He was the first post after Tomb on this sticky.
Personally, I totally agree with him. The intercepter is for tackling and pinning the victim down. The Assault frigate is for the heavy hitting. CCP has rolled both roles into the intercepter and is treating the Assault frigate like a red headed step child.
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.01.25 20:19:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Gian Bal
giving them a higher chance to reach an inty could probably solve their weakness against the new RAISED dmg ( i say it again, the dmg is not lowered. higher rof but higher dmg is MORE dot by using a dmgmod. especially taranis pilots will have one most likey, and many others will follow that lead) of intys.
I don't really understand how you've come to this conclusion, could you explain? By my reckoning...
With the current stats (ignoring gunnery skills, these will apply equally before and after the patch, as will the damage mod, but you're hung up on that for some reason so I'll include it) a light ion blaster II fitted on a taranis has:
damage multiplier of 3.375 * 1.25 = 4.21875
with a tech II mag stab = 3.375 * 1.25 * 1.1 = 4.640625
RoF of 3 * 0.75 = 2.25
with a tech II mag stab = 3 * 0.75 * 0.895 = 2.01375
Normalised damage multiplier = 4.640625/2.01375 = 2.3045
With AM that translates to a raw normalised damage output of 12 x 2.3045 = 27.65 hp per second per gun (remember this is on the low side because I'm not including any gunnery skills)
After the changes:
damage multiplier of 3.375 * 1.5 = 5.0625
with a tech II mag stab = 3.375 * 1.5 * 1.1 = 5.56875
RoF of 3 (no ship bonus)
with a tech II mag stab = 3 * 0.895 = 2.685
Normalised damage multiplier = 5.56875/2.685 = 2.074
With AM that translates to a raw normalised damage output of 12 x 2.074 = 24.88 hp per second per gun.
I think I've done everything right, and as TomB said, there's a small reduction in DoT.
It basically boils down to pre-change: 1.25/0.75 = 1.67; post-change 1.5/1 = 1.5. Reduction in DoT of 10%.
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Gian Bal
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Posted - 2005.01.25 21:33:00 -
[486]
maybe i made it with gunnery skillz, i got more in my maths for like 4% 
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Gian Bal
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Posted - 2005.01.26 01:31:00 -
[487]
Edited by: Gian Bal on 26/01/2005 01:38:41
neutron blaster I : dmg 3.5 rof 3.5
25% of 3.5 = 0.875
taranis now : dmg 4.375 rof 2.625 = 1.64 dot
tII dmgmod : 4.375*1.1 = 4.8125
2.625*0.895 = 2.34975
dot = 2.0481 (rounded)
50% of 3.5 = 1.75
taranis then : dmg 5.25 rof 3.5 = 1.5 dot
tII dmgmod : 5.25*1.1 = 5.775
3.5 *0.895 = 3.1325
dot = 1.8435
i now took your post without gunnery skills and do it equal with neutrons for better recongizing due to easier multiplications and factors. without gunnery you are right, sorry for smack  i'm still sure that with good gunnery skillz (from a m8's gallentean chars skilltree and factors out of shipinfo) this effect has a turnaround. otherwise i had done a real crappy mistake in my one :(
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.26 02:17:00 -
[488]
Originally by: xenorx
How is he late? He was the first post after Tomb on this sticky.
Interceptors have been out for almost a year, they have been the way they are since that time. Thats what i meant by being late.
It's too late for a change.
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Farjung
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Posted - 2005.01.26 06:42:00 -
[489]
Edited by: Farjung on 26/01/2005 06:45:36
Originally by: Gian Bal
i'm still sure that with good gunnery skillz (from a m8's gallentean chars skilltree and factors out of shipinfo) this effect has a turnaround. otherwise i had done a real crappy mistake in my one :(
I see you're still not convinced. A full example including gunnery skills and a tech II damage mod:
Light neutron blaster I: base damage multiplier of 3.5, base RoF of 3.5
Small hybrid 5, surgical strike 5, rapid firing 5, gunnery 5, magnetic field stabilizer II
Pre-patch damage multiplier: 3.5 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.25 = 5.534375 * 1.25
Pre-patch RoF: 3.5 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.895 * 0.75 = 2.0048 * 0.75
Pre-patch normalized damage mod = (5.534375 * 1.25) / (2.0048 * 0.75) = 2.7606 * 1.25 / 0.75 = 2.7606 * 1.6667
Post-patch damage multiplier: 3.5 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.5 = 5.534375 * 1.5
Post-patch RoF: 3.5 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.895 = 2.0048
Post-patch normalized damage mod = (5.534375 * 1.5) / 2.0048 = 2.7606 * 1.5
Gunnery skills and damage mods apply equally before and after the patch, it's only the changes to the inty bonii that have any effect ;)
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Laurela Mangers
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Posted - 2005.01.27 04:28:00 -
[490]
Edited by: Laurela Mangers on 27/01/2005 21:31:12
I'm still praying for another turret on the raptor, the Malediction gets it and it's basicaly the same type of ship. Versitile semi-gunboat. Just a bit extra punch to make up for the lowers speeds.
The crow gets a 2/3 setup why can the raptor get a 3/2?
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DoctorDanny
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Posted - 2005.01.27 10:45:00 -
[491]
When exactly will these changes be implemented?
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.01.27 13:26:00 -
[492]
next tuesday doc, with the new patch (patch notes on general discussion forum already)
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Loka
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Posted - 2005.01.27 13:46:00 -
[493]
May i bring your attention to the fact, that Taranis is now the only and single Interceptor, who can only mount 3 weapons in highslots? (3 Turrets 0 luncher)
Iam curious about how balanced this is after the patch and if the Ares wouldnt be a better choice after patch.
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Dead or Alive
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2005.01.27 16:52:00 -
[494]
i think the taranis is also the only interceptor that can churn out a 7.8x damage mod and rof of 1.6 seconds or something silly.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.01.27 17:38:00 -
[495]
I'm going to guess this will give a huge advantage to crows. 10% missle velocity per level as it will allow crows to use rockets outside of web range.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.01.28 12:09:00 -
[496]
I'm a bit conflicted about the Ares changes. I think I like them. Maybe.
Yes, it means that the Ares will (still) not be a proper tackler.
But I have to admit I like the 2 x turret, 2 x missile combo, along with the missile damage bonus. With a t2 railguns & standard launcher setup, this would allow you to orbit outside web range and still do ok damage thanks to the Ares tracking bonus. Not bad. Will have to test in practise.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.01.28 12:34:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Vampire Blade
i think the taranis is also the only interceptor that can churn out a 7.8x damage mod and rof of 1.6 seconds or something silly.
the rof suck my cap dry and i apriciate the ROF loss and the dmg gain much.
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Dead or Alive
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2005.01.28 13:02:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Loka
Originally by: Vampire Blade
i think the taranis is also the only interceptor that can churn out a 7.8x damage mod and rof of 1.6 seconds or something silly.
the rof suck my cap dry and i apriciate the ROF loss and the dmg gain much.
no **** :(
it's a shame the claw doesn't directly benefit from this change.
i think i'll be training gallente frig 5 very soon.
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.01.28 14:09:00 -
[499]
Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.01.28 16:12:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Parallax Error
Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship.
It's making a good ship better.
Sadly, CCP seem hell bent to make 'ceptors damage dealers when they are most valuable as tacklers. Why not make them tacklers? Oh, and that would leave AF as frigate damage dealers. Which is fine considering that they don't have the speed to tackle in the first place.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.28 18:19:00 -
[501]
Edited by: Meridius on 28/01/2005 18:20:14
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Parallax Error
Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship.
It's making a good ship better.
Sadly, CCP seem hell bent to make 'ceptors damage dealers when they are most valuable as tacklers. Why not make them tacklers? Oh, and that would leave AF as frigate damage dealers. Which is fine considering that they don't have the speed to tackle in the first place.
Well, i haven't done the math but fitting on a launcher will most likely result in severe cpu problems.
That and the fact that lasers do enough EM damage to begin with doesn't make the launcher thing too hot. It would be nice if they updated the model with 2 launchers as well
About AF's being damage dealers, thats not what they're suppose to do. Don't ask me why but thats what the devs have said.
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xenorx
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Posted - 2005.01.28 20:30:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Meridius
Edited by: Meridius on 28/01/2005 18:20:14
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Parallax Error
Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship.
It's making a good ship better.
Sadly, CCP seem hell bent to make 'ceptors damage dealers when they are most valuable as tacklers. Why not make them tacklers? Oh, and that would leave AF as frigate damage dealers. Which is fine considering that they don't have the speed to tackle in the first place.
Well, i haven't done the math but fitting on a launcher will most likely result in severe cpu problems.
That and the fact that lasers do enough EM damage to begin with doesn't make the launcher thing too hot. It would be nice if they updated the model with 2 launchers as well
About AF's being damage dealers, thats not what they're suppose to do. Don't ask me why but thats what the devs have said.
I believe the Malediction is going to have 2 launcher slots now Meridius. As far as the EM bonus. It really doesnt matter. There is no law that says you have to use EM missles. I probably wont.
I have already parked my Assault frigates. No point pulling them out of the hanger till Tomb and Co start showing them some love. In the mean time I will be zipping around in intercepters.
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.01.28 22:07:00 -
[503]
I think Taranis needs an extra turret or missle hardpoint. It is the only tier 2 inty w/o 4 hardpoints, a deficiency that will be shared only by the stiletto.
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.28 22:30:00 -
[504]
Edited by: Meridius on 28/01/2005 22:30:22
Originally by: Letifer Deus
I think Taranis needs an extra turret or missle hardpoint. It is the only tier 2 inty w/o 4 hardpoints, a deficiency that will be shared only by the stiletto.
Uhh let me be the first to say.
NO
If you need an extra turret on the taranis you really don't deserve to fly it
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.01.29 00:59:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/01/2005 01:01:09
Originally by: Meridius
Uhh let me be the first to say.
NO
If you need an extra turret on the taranis you really don't deserve to fly it
I didnt say I need it. I want it. Crow has 3 missles and a turret, mal has 4 turrets, crusader has 4 turrets, so why wouldn't shouldn't the taranis have a missle HP?
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Draconis
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Posted - 2005.01.29 01:45:00 -
[506]
Malediction has 4 Turrets? Hah! 3 Turrets 4 High yes.. not 4 turrets.
Taranis is one of the nastiest interceptors as is.. Most interceptors think twice if they want to tangle with a Taranis. So if you want it to be heftier you need a good drowning in a toilet.
THat ship is strong as is..
Jakob Remierat
Oblivion Amalgamated
Public Relations Nightmare
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.29 06:49:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Meridius on 29/01/2005 06:56:20
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/01/2005 01:01:09
Originally by: Meridius
Uhh let me be the first to say.
NO
If you need an extra turret on the taranis you really don't deserve to fly it
I didnt say I need it. I want it. Crow has 3 missles and a turret, mal has 4 turrets, crusader has 4 turrets, so why wouldn't shouldn't the taranis have a missle HP?
Taranis gets a 50% dmg bonus while the crusader gets 25%. A crow does have 3 launchers and a turret but that turret gets zero bonus's.
Do the math.
And yes, a malediction only has 3 turrets, not 4.
You know, i'm not even gonna add the fact that you guys can fit more then 1 dmg mod on while we (crusader pilots) struggle to fit one. Taranis has 62.5 more cpu but only 6 less grid or something while our 6 grid goes out the door with the extra turret we have to fit, gg
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Letifer Deus
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Posted - 2005.01.29 07:43:00 -
[508]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/01/2005 08:07:24
ohe xcuse me i write something drunk and write 4 turrets instead of 3 turets and 1 launcher for malediction (after patch,) thrw me a friggin bone. malediction with 3 med pulse and 1 rocket launcher (it will have 4 highs with 3 turret and 2 launcher HPs) will take a taranis unless the mal screws up. plus taranis sucks when its anything more than 1on1 (unless one uses rails.)
I am the OG PIIIIIMP |
Norris Packard
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Posted - 2005.01.29 11:25:00 -
[509]
the ares has no use for an extra hi slot. the med slot would make it so much better for tackling and you said so your self that it is a tackler not a fighter. all an extra hi slot will do is make it comparable to the other pure fighters, but not well i must say. 2 med slots suck for tackling too it needs the 3 med slots!
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Sparrowhawk
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Posted - 2005.01.29 15:38:00 -
[510]
All good news to us Raptor BPO holders.
Happy days are here again!!
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