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TomB	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:38:00 - [1] evening, the interceptors have been with us for almost a year now and have been used to kill alot of stuff, some how ever more than others interceptors are both all getting boosted, some nerfed and then again all boosted Below are details on changes and reasons: 1. Lost Interceptors getting upgraded - missing slots Ares: +1 Hi +25 CPU Stiletto: +1 Lo +1 Missile Raptor: +1 Hi Malediction: +1 1 Hi +2 Missile * These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are. 2. Fixing bad bonuses - frigate turret ROF is bad for server Taranis: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Claw: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Malediction: -25 RoF = +25 Dmg Crow: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg * The ROF = DMG changes for turrets will make the Malediction, Taranis and Claw do a tiny less damage, not much noticeable though. * Crow done as well so everyone gets the tiny nerf... 3. Giving second bonus to Interceptor Skill - all other ships have two, makes use of training skill... Ares: +5 Thermal Missile Dmg per Inteceptor lvl Taranis: +5 Hybrid Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Claw: +5 Projectile Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Stiletto: +10 Projectile Fall Off per Inteceptor lvl Crow: +10 Missile Velocity per Inteceptor lvl Raptor: +5 Kinetic Missile Dmg per Inteceptor lvl Crusader: +5 Laser Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Malediction: +5 EM Missile Dmg per Inteceptor lvl * Better tracking, missile velocity or fall off for most arn't the greatest bonuses, still good soda * Raptor and Malediction Missile Dmg are for secondary weaponary so most likely worth a dmg bonus but unknown if worth at all 4. Warp Speed Increased - tacklers need faster warping Ares, Stiletto, Raptor, Malediction: 4.5 Warp Speed Multiplier Taranis, Claw, Crow, Crusader: 3.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Normal Frigate: 2.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Still avoiding more tuning, more importand stuff needs to be done for some patch, happening sometime, just adding these extras to help a little. We know that alot of other ships don't work like they are suposed to, no need to yell at us about them all, we will get to them when time allows. FIGHT! 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
TomB	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:38:00 - [2] evening, the interceptors have been with us for almost a year now and have been used to kill alot of stuff, some how ever more than others interceptors are both all getting boosted, some nerfed and then again all boosted Below are details on changes and reasons: 1. Lost Interceptors getting upgraded - missing slots Ares: +1 Hi +25 CPU Stiletto: +1 Lo +1 Missile Raptor: +1 Hi Malediction: +1 1 Hi +2 Missile * These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are. 2. Fixing bad bonuses - frigate turret ROF is bad for server Taranis: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Claw: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Malediction: -25 RoF = +25 Dmg Crow: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg * The ROF = DMG changes for turrets will make the Malediction, Taranis and Claw do a tiny less damage, not much noticeable though. * Crow done as well so everyone gets the tiny nerf... 3. Giving second bonus to Interceptor Skill - all other ships have two, makes use of training skill... Ares: +5 Thermal Missile Dmg per Inteceptor lvl Taranis: +5 Hybrid Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Claw: +5 Projectile Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Stiletto: +10 Projectile Fall Off per Inteceptor lvl Crow: +10 Missile Velocity per Inteceptor lvl Raptor: +5 Kinetic Missile Dmg per Inteceptor lvl Crusader: +5 Laser Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Malediction: +5 EM Missile Dmg per Inteceptor lvl * Better tracking, missile velocity or fall off for most arn't the greatest bonuses, still good soda * Raptor and Malediction Missile Dmg are for secondary weaponary so most likely worth a dmg bonus but unknown if worth at all 4. Warp Speed Increased - tacklers need faster warping Ares, Stiletto, Raptor, Malediction: 4.5 Warp Speed Multiplier Taranis, Claw, Crow, Crusader: 3.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Normal Frigate: 2.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Still avoiding more tuning, more importand stuff needs to be done for some patch, happening sometime, just adding these extras to help a little. We know that alot of other ships don't work like they are suposed to, no need to yell at us about them all, we will get to them when time allows. FIGHT! 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:56:00 - [3] I'll be honest, I have always felt that ceptors were overpowered, their signature radius bonus give a bigger advantage and makes assualt frigs less desirable. If your going to tweak the elites, dont forget covert and assault frigs ;) The warp speed changes are nice though, perhaps a more benficial bonuses for tacklers, like reduction in cap needs for ew modules would be more appropiate than dmg bonuses? Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.12.21 19:56:00 - [4] I'll be honest, I have always felt that ceptors were overpowered, their signature radius bonus give a bigger advantage and makes assualt frigs less desirable. If your going to tweak the elites, dont forget covert and assault frigs ;) The warp speed changes are nice though, perhaps a more benficial bonuses for tacklers, like reduction in cap needs for ew modules would be more appropiate than dmg bonuses? Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Niaski Zalani	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:01:00 - [5] one word: awesome. yarr?
Niaski Zalani	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:01:00 - [6] one word: awesome. yarr?
Necrologic	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:02:00 - [7] Edited by: Necrologic on 21/12/2004 20:02:16 we. love. you. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Necrologic	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Necrologic on 21/12/2004 20:02:16 we. love. you. _______________________________________________________ Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:04:00 - [9] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 21/12/2004 20:14:45 TomB: Raptor +1 turret, not +1 hi pls. Make it a little gunboat :\
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 21/12/2004 20:14:45 TomB: Raptor +1 turret, not +1 hi pls. Make it a little gunboat :\

Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:05:00 - [11] sounds cool Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:05:00 - [12] sounds cool Wanna fly with me?
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:05:00 - [13] tomb, if you were next me in real life, i'd get past that bigg MASS dude wielding the nerf bat to have sex with you. thank you. ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:05:00 - [14] tomb, if you were next me in real life, i'd get past that bigg MASS dude wielding the nerf bat to have sex with you. thank you. ----- ----- -----
flummox	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:06:00 - [15] nice! and, what istvaan said.. there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
flummox	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:06:00 - [16] nice! and, what istvaan said.. there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on...
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:07:00 - [17] We don't need better Inty's, we need better Inty PILOTS! It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Johnson McCrae	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:07:00 - [18] We don't need better Inty's, we need better Inty PILOTS! It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya! [ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
Arimas Talasko	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:11:00 - [19] Does this mean we might be seeing other Assault Frigates (cough Retribution cough) get looked at too? Awesome fixes by the way, though at the moment the Malediction and Raptor secondary bonuses don't seem to jive. Supremacy Keepin it Real
Arimas Talasko	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:11:00 - [20] Does this mean we might be seeing other Assault Frigates (cough Retribution cough) get looked at too? Awesome fixes by the way, though at the moment the Malediction and Raptor secondary bonuses don't seem to jive. Supremacy Keepin it Real

BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:11:00 - [21] Excellent, making the forgotten interceptors more useful = teh win
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:11:00 - [22] Excellent, making the forgotten interceptors more useful = teh win
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:12:00 - [23] "TomB: Raptor +1 turret, not +1 hi pls :\" Or even better, both -.^ (4 hi, 3/2 setup... but if it's intended to be a hybrid rather than gunboat then not v.likely for it to happen :/ but 4 hi 2/2 ins't too bad either...
j0sephine	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:12:00 - [24] "TomB: Raptor +1 turret, not +1 hi pls :\" Or even better, both -.^ (4 hi, 3/2 setup... but if it's intended to be a hybrid rather than gunboat then not v.likely for it to happen :/ but 4 hi 2/2 ins't too bad either...
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:14:00 - [25] the proposed bonuses, make more clear, a division that has been present in the interceptor calss, since day one there are catcher interceptors, ie, the stilletto, with good speed, decent lock range, and lots of midslots, but very weak armament, and poor tanking ability nothing can get 3 warp scramblers on a target as fast as a catcher interceptor and there are killer interceptors, ie, the claw, it's a bit slower, got **** all lock range (20km flat with my skills), and only 2 mids, but it is heavily armed and does massive damage, and carries a solid(for a frigate) tank nothing will shribbonise a frigate as fast as a killer interceptor catcher interceptors, go in, and lock down enemy battleships killer interceptors, go on long ranging missions, dozens of jumps behind enemy lines and kill any frigate, or industrial they see if they get called to a fleet battle, they range ahead as the tip of the spear, killing the enemy catcher's and antifrigate frigates, clearing the way for cruisers, and for catcher interceptors to go in and do their job. the assualt frigate, hangs back, usning it's immense tank to allow it to survive in the heart of the storm, killing any catchers, cruiser or otherwise, tha break past the lines of killer interceptors, to ry and scramble the friendly battlships lecture on ship usage aside, I much like the changes, bar the decrease in rof, but that onyl because i'd have loved to see a combat practical claw setup with a sub second rate of fire. as for the stiletto and it's breed, the extra slots and hardpoints, will bring it's damage up to par, while making it more survivable you're doing a good job for the most part tomb, i just hate that raven kill all ship classes with one setup
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:14:00 - [26] the proposed bonuses, make more clear, a division that has been present in the interceptor calss, since day one there are catcher interceptors, ie, the stilletto, with good speed, decent lock range, and lots of midslots, but very weak armament, and poor tanking ability nothing can get 3 warp scramblers on a target as fast as a catcher interceptor and there are killer interceptors, ie, the claw, it's a bit slower, got **** all lock range (20km flat with my skills), and only 2 mids, but it is heavily armed and does massive damage, and carries a solid(for a frigate) tank nothing will shribbonise a frigate as fast as a killer interceptor catcher interceptors, go in, and lock down enemy battleships killer interceptors, go on long ranging missions, dozens of jumps behind enemy lines and kill any frigate, or industrial they see if they get called to a fleet battle, they range ahead as the tip of the spear, killing the enemy catcher's and antifrigate frigates, clearing the way for cruisers, and for catcher interceptors to go in and do their job. the assualt frigate, hangs back, usning it's immense tank to allow it to survive in the heart of the storm, killing any catchers, cruiser or otherwise, tha break past the lines of killer interceptors, to ry and scramble the friendly battlships lecture on ship usage aside, I much like the changes, bar the decrease in rof, but that onyl because i'd have loved to see a combat practical claw setup with a sub second rate of fire. as for the stiletto and it's breed, the extra slots and hardpoints, will bring it's damage up to par, while making it more survivable you're doing a good job for the most part tomb, i just hate that raven kill all ship classes with one setup
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:18:00 - [27] liz, claw is faster than the stiletto :) and all other interceptors tbh. ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:18:00 - [28] liz, claw is faster than the stiletto :) and all other interceptors tbh. ----- ----- -----
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:20:00 - [29] Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. -
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:20:00 - [30] Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. -

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:22:00 - [31] I like the changes. I allready flew Stiletos for tackling, but rockets on them will make them consideraby nasier in close combat. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:22:00 - [32] I like the changes. I allready flew Stiletos for tackling, but rockets on them will make them consideraby nasier in close combat. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:22:00 - [33] Edited by: Vampire Blade on 21/12/2004 20:24:01 viceroy, you're telling me you're going to use a stiletto over a vigil because it goes 1km/s faster, if they nerfed the damage potential? 6m is nothing to some people, but still ;) edit/ missed ? mark ;( ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:22:00 - [34] Edited by: Vampire Blade on 21/12/2004 20:24:01 viceroy, you're telling me you're going to use a stiletto over a vigil because it goes 1km/s faster, if they nerfed the damage potential? 6m is nothing to some people, but still ;) edit/ missed ? mark ;( ----- ----- -----
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 - [35] /me wonders if viceroy read a word i posted and Vampire Blade, it loses that extra speed for defence if you're doing it right
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 - [36] /me wonders if viceroy read a word i posted and Vampire Blade, it loses that extra speed for defence if you're doing it right
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 - [37] A couple things? First : Under 3 : are those percentages or fixed numbers? Same for other parts that aren't showing what they are and might be ambiguous :P second : dividing with the warp speed makes them more defined in their roles, you'd rather go for the speed in certain situations of course, I'd assume that was the point. Male's are fairly fun to fly though already, and adding that low on stiletto??? Oh well, gonna be fun to fly around with :P ________________________________
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:26:00 - [38] A couple things? First : Under 3 : are those percentages or fixed numbers? Same for other parts that aren't showing what they are and might be ambiguous :P second : dividing with the warp speed makes them more defined in their roles, you'd rather go for the speed in certain situations of course, I'd assume that was the point. Male's are fairly fun to fly though already, and adding that low on stiletto??? Oh well, gonna be fun to fly around with :P ________________________________
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:29:00 - [39] any word on when these changes go TQ? ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:29:00 - [40] any word on when these changes go TQ? ----- ----- -----

Weirda	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:29:00 - [41] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Weirda disagree with this statement - not totally, but partially. Like Liz's description of the role differences between the 'killer' and 'tackler' interceptors. Both roles are 'interception' IWHO. Would like to see some EW bonuses for the 'tacklers' though - as you stated (at least rather then the ML bonus for example). Perhaps they are hesitant to do anything that may be undone by EW balances though - who knows. Assault Frigates still WTFBBQ interceptors (when properly fitted) - and therefor also fit into Liz's role description pretty well too. Anyhow - will be nice to see these changes. Would have been nice to see the 10% sig reduction back per inty level though =) (or perhaps a -90% missile damage for all missils > light)... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Weirda	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Weirda disagree with this statement - not totally, but partially. Like Liz's description of the role differences between the 'killer' and 'tackler' interceptors. Both roles are 'interception' IWHO. Would like to see some EW bonuses for the 'tacklers' though - as you stated (at least rather then the ML bonus for example). Perhaps they are hesitant to do anything that may be undone by EW balances though - who knows. Assault Frigates still WTFBBQ interceptors (when properly fitted) - and therefor also fit into Liz's role description pretty well too. Anyhow - will be nice to see these changes. Would have been nice to see the 10% sig reduction back per inty level though =) (or perhaps a -90% missile damage for all missils > light)... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:37:00 - [43] oh and Viceroy had an excellent point, to make interceptors interceptors they should have interceptor supporting abilities as their bonuses, not firepower support skills. If you want to encourage certain use of a ship it should cater to being used in that way. As you said, why use an interceptor when a normal frig does the job almost as well. That's the view of the majority anyways, some people still go that extre meter to get on top in a given situation, for many people the 6 mill ship and added protection that it adds simply makes it worth. With the warp boosts it should make the tackler ints far more used and prefered but a low cost aka budget force will still deploy normal frigs when they need tackling, It's simply a question of being as fast or faster than the target and with some more frigs chances are you can still tackle them nicely in frigs if you aren't intrested in having that extra edge. Getting longer duration on scrambles and webbies and the likes would mean you want to get the interceptor because there is a real proper nice cool edge to using that ship that costs millions for the job ... ________________________________
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:37:00 - [44] oh and Viceroy had an excellent point, to make interceptors interceptors they should have interceptor supporting abilities as their bonuses, not firepower support skills. If you want to encourage certain use of a ship it should cater to being used in that way. As you said, why use an interceptor when a normal frig does the job almost as well. That's the view of the majority anyways, some people still go that extre meter to get on top in a given situation, for many people the 6 mill ship and added protection that it adds simply makes it worth. With the warp boosts it should make the tackler ints far more used and prefered but a low cost aka budget force will still deploy normal frigs when they need tackling, It's simply a question of being as fast or faster than the target and with some more frigs chances are you can still tackle them nicely in frigs if you aren't intrested in having that extra edge. Getting longer duration on scrambles and webbies and the likes would mean you want to get the interceptor because there is a real proper nice cool edge to using that ship that costs millions for the job ... ________________________________
Archain	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:43:00 - [45] Not sure if this has been mentioned. Some nice changes to amarr inties, however inties are still deathtraps since missles can read your mind. :( Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
Archain	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:43:00 - [46] Not sure if this has been mentioned. Some nice changes to amarr inties, however inties are still deathtraps since missles can read your mind. :( Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:49:00 - [47] I like the changes. Personally I think the Ares and Stiletto were good enough, though... Ares was a good tank and did great damage, its one of the faster interceptors. Stiletto was the best tackler. Raptor.. well I'm not sure. Its got good HP, its just slow... And the Malediction changes are nice... will do almost as much damage as a Crusader but its got the extra midslot. I suggest the Ares extra mid be taken back. Its not a damage ceptor right now, its more of a tanking one. Stiletto should only get the extra lowslot, not the missile.
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:49:00 - [48] I like the changes. Personally I think the Ares and Stiletto were good enough, though... Ares was a good tank and did great damage, its one of the faster interceptors. Stiletto was the best tackler. Raptor.. well I'm not sure. Its got good HP, its just slow... And the Malediction changes are nice... will do almost as much damage as a Crusader but its got the extra midslot. I suggest the Ares extra mid be taken back. Its not a damage ceptor right now, its more of a tanking one. Stiletto should only get the extra lowslot, not the missile.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:52:00 - [49] Well the Stilleto won't be MUCH better, it'll just be able to hold it's own against T1 frigs :P "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:52:00 - [50] Well the Stilleto won't be MUCH better, it'll just be able to hold it's own against T1 frigs :P "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"

Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:55:00 - [51] Originally by: Maya Rkell Well the Stilleto won't be MUCH better, it'll just be able to hold it's own against T1 frigs :P That launcher slot will be a godsend :p Though I do agree, having the 10% sig radiu bonus back will be much appreciated.
Dianabolic	Posted - 2004.12.21 20:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Maya Rkell Well the Stilleto won't be MUCH better, it'll just be able to hold it's own against T1 frigs :P That launcher slot will be a godsend :p Though I do agree, having the 10% sig radiu bonus back will be much appreciated.
OnDa Rag	Posted - 2004.12.21 21:54:00 - [53] Quote: 2. Fixing bad bonuses - frigate turret ROF is bad for server Taranis: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Claw: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Malediction: -25 RoF = +25 Dmg Crow: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg * The ROF = DMG changes for turrets will make the Malediction, Taranis and Claw do a tiny less damage, not much noticeable though. * Crow done as well so everyone gets the tiny nerf... For those whining about the damage changes, TomB clearly states the ships will end up doing LESS damage over time. The damage is being added to compensate for ROF changes being done. As for the Ares new slot I'm really happy I didn't sell mine. New changes will make it a great tackler.
OnDa Rag	Posted - 2004.12.21 21:54:00 - [54] Quote: 2. Fixing bad bonuses - frigate turret ROF is bad for server Taranis: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Claw: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg Malediction: -25 RoF = +25 Dmg Crow: +25 Dmg -25 RoF = +50 Dmg * The ROF = DMG changes for turrets will make the Malediction, Taranis and Claw do a tiny less damage, not much noticeable though. * Crow done as well so everyone gets the tiny nerf... For those whining about the damage changes, TomB clearly states the ships will end up doing LESS damage over time. The damage is being added to compensate for ROF changes being done. As for the Ares new slot I'm really happy I didn't sell mine. New changes will make it a great tackler.
NateX	Posted - 2004.12.21 22:01:00 - [55] just 2 question? when gonna raptor be the new Ubber ship=when gonna be the update ? _______________ ______/ Regards NateX
NateX	Posted - 2004.12.21 22:01:00 - [56] just 2 question? when gonna raptor be the new Ubber ship=when gonna be the update ? _______________ ______/ Regards NateX
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.12.21 22:23:00 - [57] the warp speed difference on interceptors alone makes them worth using over tech 1 frigs.. any word on missles? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.12.21 22:23:00 - [58] the warp speed difference on interceptors alone makes them worth using over tech 1 frigs.. any word on missles? _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.12.21 22:48:00 - [59] So where's the assault frig boost? Inty's were always good.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.12.21 22:48:00 - [60] So where's the assault frig boost? Inty's were always good.

DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:04:00 - [61] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz So where's the assault frig boost? Inty's were always good. hp changes translates to dmg nerf, so higher dot on assaults and higher resistances mean a LOT more in the long run.. also means more time to get out as well as get into range.. which is currently hindered by their speed _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:04:00 - [62] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz So where's the assault frig boost? Inty's were always good. hp changes translates to dmg nerf, so higher dot on assaults and higher resistances mean a LOT more in the long run.. also means more time to get out as well as get into range.. which is currently hindered by their speed _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:19:00 - [63] So there will be an extra damage bonus on top of the existing one, and a ROF penalty? So instead of +25 dmg +25 rof it'll be +50 dmg -25 rof? ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:19:00 - [64] So there will be an extra damage bonus on top of the existing one, and a ROF penalty? So instead of +25 dmg +25 rof it'll be +50 dmg -25 rof? ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
TomB	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:21:00 - [65] Originally by: KingsGambit So there will be an extra damage bonus on top of the existing one, and a ROF penalty? So instead of +25 dmg +25 rof it'll be +50 dmg -25 rof? -25% ROF = better ROF, it got changed into +25% DMG 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
TomB	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:21:00 - [66] Originally by: KingsGambit So there will be an extra damage bonus on top of the existing one, and a ROF penalty? So instead of +25 dmg +25 rof it'll be +50 dmg -25 rof? -25% ROF = better ROF, it got changed into +25% DMG 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:22:00 - [67] Edited by: Vampire Blade on 21/12/2004 23:23:01 no, no rof penalty.. they're just taking away the rof BONUS! so instead of 25% damage and 25% firing speed bonus it's now 50% damage bonus :D /edit tomb got there first :( you're awfully sharp today <3 ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:22:00 - [68] Edited by: Vampire Blade on 21/12/2004 23:23:01 no, no rof penalty.. they're just taking away the rof BONUS! so instead of 25% damage and 25% firing speed bonus it's now 50% damage bonus :D /edit tomb got there first :( you're awfully sharp today <3 ----- ----- -----
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:30:00 - [69] COOL!! THX! B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:30:00 - [70] COOL!! THX! B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"

Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:31:00 - [71] +5% to tracking speed on lasers.....hm... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:31:00 - [72] +5% to tracking speed on lasers.....hm... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Shimatu	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:36:00 - [73] i still think interceptors shouldnt have the damage bonus. yes keep the one from the base frigate, but another one as well makes them too powerful. Instead of the damage bonus, give them something useful to the role. Like webber/scrambler range, or cap use. This will make people use interceptors as interceptors, rather than as fighters. btw, i fly intys myself so its not that i want them to suck, i just dont want them to be as amazing as they are atm. Also, whats the disadvantage of flying one, other than cost? Assualt Frigates have low speed and are easy to hit. But intereptors have no disadvantage compared to normal frigates. 3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
Shimatu	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:36:00 - [74] i still think interceptors shouldnt have the damage bonus. yes keep the one from the base frigate, but another one as well makes them too powerful. Instead of the damage bonus, give them something useful to the role. Like webber/scrambler range, or cap use. This will make people use interceptors as interceptors, rather than as fighters. btw, i fly intys myself so its not that i want them to suck, i just dont want them to be as amazing as they are atm. Also, whats the disadvantage of flying one, other than cost? Assualt Frigates have low speed and are easy to hit. But intereptors have no disadvantage compared to normal frigates. 3-I's T2 sales can be found HERE
Jon Gray	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:49:00 - [75] The changes look promising, but i'm still thinking something needs to be done with the Signature Radius. I think someone mentioned something above, and I mentioned to CCP Hammerhead on Sigi, that something like 20% reduced Sig Radius increase per level of Interceptor (i.e at Level V you get no reduction of radius per level, only a very small radius) should be on the cards. Yes at Level V they will be very hard indeed, but lets face it, a webbed interceptor is still gonna suffer at the hands of torpedo's and cruise missiles. As it stands now you cannot fit oversized without borking your orbit/acceleration/fittings, & MWD defeats the point of having the smaller signature radius in the first place. 1mn ABS is obviously useless, theres absolutely no point fielding a ceptor in PvP if it cant outrun missiles. Saying that, the speed upgrade TomB mentioned should negate easy hits from cruiser / battleship guns, but will need to be tested. Oh & something needs to be done about Sigi, no decent modules, ships or way to communication with other players, no Fight Club. Are we just meant to go on sigi and hang around alone at a station with nothing new to test? :o ---
Jon Gray	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:49:00 - [76] The changes look promising, but i'm still thinking something needs to be done with the Signature Radius. I think someone mentioned something above, and I mentioned to CCP Hammerhead on Sigi, that something like 20% reduced Sig Radius increase per level of Interceptor (i.e at Level V you get no reduction of radius per level, only a very small radius) should be on the cards. Yes at Level V they will be very hard indeed, but lets face it, a webbed interceptor is still gonna suffer at the hands of torpedo's and cruise missiles. As it stands now you cannot fit oversized without borking your orbit/acceleration/fittings, & MWD defeats the point of having the smaller signature radius in the first place. 1mn ABS is obviously useless, theres absolutely no point fielding a ceptor in PvP if it cant outrun missiles. Saying that, the speed upgrade TomB mentioned should negate easy hits from cruiser / battleship guns, but will need to be tested. Oh & something needs to be done about Sigi, no decent modules, ships or way to communication with other players, no Fight Club. Are we just meant to go on sigi and hang around alone at a station with nothing new to test? :o ---
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:55:00 - [77] As an interceptor pilot, may i just say, I love you. Also I look forward to my 16km range on my rockets. -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.12.21 23:55:00 - [78] As an interceptor pilot, may i just say, I love you. Also I look forward to my 16km range on my rockets. -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
Mongooser	Posted - 2004.12.22 00:51:00 - [79] Do we have an estimated time frame for this happening? PLEASE dont say "soon(tm)" Must play EVE while drunk more......
Mongooser	Posted - 2004.12.22 00:51:00 - [80] Do we have an estimated time frame for this happening? PLEASE dont say "soon(tm)" Must play EVE while drunk more......

KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.12.22 00:55:00 - [81] What about instead of a second dmg tracking/velocity etc bonus for every lvl of inty skill, what about something that is specific to the role of the ships that follows on from the original bonus? With the nerf to oversized ABs, why not have a bonus to reduce the sig penalty from MWDs (similar to Thorax bonus to counter MWD Cap Penalty). eg: Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and -100 MWD Signature Radius Penalty per level With that Interceptors will be much truer to their purpose, which is being fast and being small, and not getting hit! ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.12.22 00:55:00 - [82] What about instead of a second dmg tracking/velocity etc bonus for every lvl of inty skill, what about something that is specific to the role of the ships that follows on from the original bonus? With the nerf to oversized ABs, why not have a bonus to reduce the sig penalty from MWDs (similar to Thorax bonus to counter MWD Cap Penalty). eg: Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and -100 MWD Signature Radius Penalty per level With that Interceptors will be much truer to their purpose, which is being fast and being small, and not getting hit! ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
Xtro 2	Posted - 2004.12.22 01:40:00 - [83] Looks good, will have to wait for missile changes before i make up my mind, but looks ok at first glance. Would have been nice for the 1st grade tacklers to have tackling related bonuses however. __________________________________________ Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights.
Xtro 2	Posted - 2004.12.22 01:40:00 - [84] Looks good, will have to wait for missile changes before i make up my mind, but looks ok at first glance. Would have been nice for the 1st grade tacklers to have tackling related bonuses however. __________________________________________ Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights.
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.22 01:42:00 - [85] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. SIGNED! give the tackler ones range bonus ond warp scrambler and the other range bonus on webbers Wanna fly with me?
Nafri	Posted - 2004.12.22 01:42:00 - [86] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. SIGNED! give the tackler ones range bonus ond warp scrambler and the other range bonus on webbers Wanna fly with me?
Minyon	Posted - 2004.12.22 02:04:00 - [87] Thank god for a second there i thought you were going to do the crapes thing ever and turn intreceptors in to pure tacklers. Aslo the Stiletto could use some more cap i can only just activate my ecm setup on it
Minyon	Posted - 2004.12.22 02:04:00 - [88] Thank god for a second there i thought you were going to do the crapes thing ever and turn intreceptors in to pure tacklers. Aslo the Stiletto could use some more cap i can only just activate my ecm setup on it
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.22 02:25:00 - [89] i think both minmatar shippies could do with extra cap :) ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.22 02:25:00 - [90] i think both minmatar shippies could do with extra cap :) ----- ----- -----

Selim	Posted - 2004.12.22 03:10:00 - [91] Super fast rockets
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.22 03:10:00 - [92] Super fast rockets
Derran	Posted - 2004.12.22 03:37:00 - [93] I always felt since the beginning certain interceptors didn't feel quite right, like the fittings on a Stiletto but I could never see what could really be done to change it considering the balance that would have to exist against the other interceptors. Overall, I like most of the changes being proposed. The crow felt nigh useless against another interceptor unless you could web it as its missiles couldn't catch it. And after the other tech 2 ships started getting a 2nd bonus like they have been, it just felt wrong. But I have to agree with Hakera who replied first. The assault frigates really suffer right now. Covert Ops feels okay to me as they really do the job they are suited for. They just cost a whole heck of alot.
Derran	Posted - 2004.12.22 03:37:00 - [94] I always felt since the beginning certain interceptors didn't feel quite right, like the fittings on a Stiletto but I could never see what could really be done to change it considering the balance that would have to exist against the other interceptors. Overall, I like most of the changes being proposed. The crow felt nigh useless against another interceptor unless you could web it as its missiles couldn't catch it. And after the other tech 2 ships started getting a 2nd bonus like they have been, it just felt wrong. But I have to agree with Hakera who replied first. The assault frigates really suffer right now. Covert Ops feels okay to me as they really do the job they are suited for. They just cost a whole heck of alot.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.12.22 06:39:00 - [95] My assault ship is fine. strokes his harpy -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.12.22 06:39:00 - [96] My assault ship is fine. strokes his harpy -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
John Farson	Posted - 2004.12.22 07:23:00 - [97] Would be nice if the Crusader/Claw had an extra midslot. With 2 midslots, you can fit an AB/MWD, and a scrambler/web. If you fit a web, the enemy can warp away. If you fit a scrambler, the enemy can just MWD out of range and warp off, plus they'd be going too fast to hit anyway.
John Farson	Posted - 2004.12.22 07:23:00 - [98] Would be nice if the Crusader/Claw had an extra midslot. With 2 midslots, you can fit an AB/MWD, and a scrambler/web. If you fit a web, the enemy can warp away. If you fit a scrambler, the enemy can just MWD out of range and warp off, plus they'd be going too fast to hit anyway.
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.12.22 08:13:00 - [99] Yum Yum Yum training all race frigates to 5 will come in handy after al :D ta, TomB [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.12.22 08:13:00 - [100] Yum Yum Yum training all race frigates to 5 will come in handy after al :D ta, TomB [Heterocephalus glaber]

Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2004.12.22 08:56:00 - [101] Originally by: Hamatitio My assault ship is fine. strokes his harpy As is my Ishkur and Enyo. Assaults are fine, properly fitted and flown they absolutely shred things. As for the inty changes: wow. Maybe people will stop laughing at my Ares now :). The third medslot will help it a lot, and the falloff bonus is nice icing on the cake. Me likes.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2004.12.22 08:56:00 - [102] Originally by: Hamatitio My assault ship is fine. strokes his harpy As is my Ishkur and Enyo. Assaults are fine, properly fitted and flown they absolutely shred things. As for the inty changes: wow. Maybe people will stop laughing at my Ares now :). The third medslot will help it a lot, and the falloff bonus is nice icing on the cake. Me likes.
Derekian	Posted - 2004.12.22 08:58:00 - [103] Quote: Crusader: +5 Laser Tracking per Inteceptor lvl More tracking? But anyways i LOVE the changes and i LOVE you too Btw i didn't understand the warp speed thingie....the normal frigates are geting 2x their warp speed now or?
Derekian	Posted - 2004.12.22 08:58:00 - [104] Quote: Crusader: +5 Laser Tracking per Inteceptor lvl More tracking? But anyways i LOVE the changes and i LOVE you too Btw i didn't understand the warp speed thingie....the normal frigates are geting 2x their warp speed now or?
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:08:00 - [105] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Been saying this for months, Viceroy LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:08:00 - [106] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Been saying this for months, Viceroy LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:12:00 - [107] Originally by: Derekian But anyways i LOVE the changes and i LOVE you too Btw i didn't understand the warp speed thingie....the normal frigates are geting 2x their warp speed now or? Base warp speed is 3 AU/sec. 2x modifier means that that 3.0 is doubled, meaning frigate warp speed is 6 AU. In the case of tackler inties, this speed will be a whopping 13.5 AU/s, allowing to intercept practically anything ._. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:12:00 - [108] Originally by: Derekian But anyways i LOVE the changes and i LOVE you too Btw i didn't understand the warp speed thingie....the normal frigates are geting 2x their warp speed now or? Base warp speed is 3 AU/sec. 2x modifier means that that 3.0 is doubled, meaning frigate warp speed is 6 AU. In the case of tackler inties, this speed will be a whopping 13.5 AU/s, allowing to intercept practically anything ._. [Heterocephalus glaber]
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:26:00 - [109] Hi there, TomB, I believe you read somewhere that several people wish that interceptors get a bonus for tackling, not taking down ships. I don't know if it's doable, but how about giving them range/cap bonuses on modules sur as webifiers, scramblers and disruptors? Maybe if we had (Stiletto example) - 3 hi slots - 4 med slots - 2+1 low slots - Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level - Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius per level and 5% cap use bonus on webber use (or scrambler or whatever) Those changes are VERY welcome. However, why going on making interceptors damage dealers? Aren't they supposed to catch a target, pin it down till the big boys arrive? Just an idea... but i'd rather make use of more EW/propulsion stuff on iterceptors than anything else :) Cheers
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:26:00 - [110] Hi there, TomB, I believe you read somewhere that several people wish that interceptors get a bonus for tackling, not taking down ships. I don't know if it's doable, but how about giving them range/cap bonuses on modules sur as webifiers, scramblers and disruptors? Maybe if we had (Stiletto example) - 3 hi slots - 4 med slots - 2+1 low slots - Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level - Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius per level and 5% cap use bonus on webber use (or scrambler or whatever) Those changes are VERY welcome. However, why going on making interceptors damage dealers? Aren't they supposed to catch a target, pin it down till the big boys arrive? Just an idea... but i'd rather make use of more EW/propulsion stuff on iterceptors than anything else :) Cheers

Arud	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:39:00 - [111] I totaly agree with giving interceptors tackling bonuses instead of damage boost. But the problem is that ccp has said they will redo the ew system and before that is done giving the interceptors ew bonuses is pointless. This change is just a general balance fix for the interceptor line. .... and to loosen the load on the server very promising change.
Arud	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:39:00 - [112] I totaly agree with giving interceptors tackling bonuses instead of damage boost. But the problem is that ccp has said they will redo the ew system and before that is done giving the interceptors ew bonuses is pointless. This change is just a general balance fix for the interceptor line. .... and to loosen the load on the server very promising change.
Gaius Kador	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:56:00 - [113] Good stuff ----------------------------------------------
Gaius Kador	Posted - 2004.12.22 09:56:00 - [114] Good stuff ----------------------------------------------
Domatavus Fallatus	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:02:00 - [115] Edited by: Domatavus Fallatus on 22/12/2004 10:04:38 i think it all depends on the view on what purpose a ceptor should fulfil (as already stated). imho roles are as follows: Ceptor: - tackler - anti frig - indy killer Assault Frig: - team cruiser killers (higher dmg, but not as fast as ceptors but still faster than frigs!!!) - indy killers (a lil worse than ceptors cos of res. ) - part tackling (i'm not flying assault friggies, so no flame plz, this is mainly due to their high resistances which make them hard 2 kill, but imho they shouldn't be all too good ceptor killers (which they are now, most often) just please make assault friggies killable by ceptors(i must admin i never fought one yet (local pirates don't use em or simply run...)) I LOVE the warp speed changes! dunno how this will work ingame, but y not make ceptors 5x or 4.5 and 3.5x, assault 2.5x or 3x speeds... edit: yes been searching for some1 suggesting scramble range increase on the first two pages or so, but yes make them have gr8er scrambling range ------- My Posts only reflect my personal Opinion and NOT thoose of my Corp
Domatavus Fallatus	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:02:00 - [116] Edited by: Domatavus Fallatus on 22/12/2004 10:04:38 i think it all depends on the view on what purpose a ceptor should fulfil (as already stated). imho roles are as follows: Ceptor: - tackler - anti frig - indy killer Assault Frig: - team cruiser killers (higher dmg, but not as fast as ceptors but still faster than frigs!!!) - indy killers (a lil worse than ceptors cos of res. ) - part tackling (i'm not flying assault friggies, so no flame plz, this is mainly due to their high resistances which make them hard 2 kill, but imho they shouldn't be all too good ceptor killers (which they are now, most often) just please make assault friggies killable by ceptors(i must admin i never fought one yet (local pirates don't use em or simply run...)) I LOVE the warp speed changes! dunno how this will work ingame, but y not make ceptors 5x or 4.5 and 3.5x, assault 2.5x or 3x speeds... edit: yes been searching for some1 suggesting scramble range increase on the first two pages or so, but yes make them have gr8er scrambling range ------- My Posts only reflect my personal Opinion and NOT thoose of my Corp
Henka	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:10:00 - [117] I dont wanna whine, but now Crow will be even MORe used in PVP. Moving FAST, and now they even get the 10% speed boost for missiles. Yeah right, what NOW are the taranis (or any other ship ingame) suposed to do now, besides to tank, vs a crow? Omg.. you will do the crow even more dominant on the interceptor market, No point giving taranis tracking bonus cuz, it will just die anyway. That the problem, dont give missiles any kind of bonus unless you fix the missiles first, there is no way in **** I will outrun the lights from a crow now (he can just move away/orbit and still get 100% hits, compared to the taranis wich needs to rely on its speed to even get close to hit anything). that missile speed + crow speed + light missiles avsome damage will just make crows unstoppable...
Henka	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:10:00 - [118] I dont wanna whine, but now Crow will be even MORe used in PVP. Moving FAST, and now they even get the 10% speed boost for missiles. Yeah right, what NOW are the taranis (or any other ship ingame) suposed to do now, besides to tank, vs a crow? Omg.. you will do the crow even more dominant on the interceptor market, No point giving taranis tracking bonus cuz, it will just die anyway. That the problem, dont give missiles any kind of bonus unless you fix the missiles first, there is no way in **** I will outrun the lights from a crow now (he can just move away/orbit and still get 100% hits, compared to the taranis wich needs to rely on its speed to even get close to hit anything). that missile speed + crow speed + light missiles avsome damage will just make crows unstoppable...
Lorth	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:25:00 - [119] I like the nex bonuses. However, I still would love to see bonuses to warp scrambler ranges and what not. That would make them the tacklers of the eve world. Imagine if yo had a frig that could scramble at 15km for -4. I would trade my guns, for that. I fly an inty for the most part to lock down other ships. I'll put up with never being on a kill mail to be able to lock down people at longer ranges.
Lorth	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:25:00 - [120] I like the nex bonuses. However, I still would love to see bonuses to warp scrambler ranges and what not. That would make them the tacklers of the eve world. Imagine if yo had a frig that could scramble at 15km for -4. I would trade my guns, for that. I fly an inty for the most part to lock down other ships. I'll put up with never being on a kill mail to be able to lock down people at longer ranges.

TomB	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:26:00 - [121] Tackling bonuses; Thought about them when making the ships and have been thinking about tthem ever since. First of all a range bonus for tackling weapons isn't good for all of these ships, they are small and hardest to track in the closest range + most of the ships get bonuses for weapons that work the best in 5-10km, some how ever like the crow is excellent to use with disruptors at 15km, specially now with rockets always getting that far, cap need bonus or strength bonus might sound more suitable for most of them. Secondly the stasis and scramblers will get dealt with when the EW system changes start (overhaul planned for early january), I added these bonuses as it was easy to do. The damage bonuses makes these ships feared, the cost alot and shouldn't be something that is only feared if they have bigger ships with them to deal the damage, these damage and tracking bonuses are also nice to take out big mean drones. Will still have a look at them at a later time, no promises about it happening at the same time as the EW changes though. 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
TomB	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:26:00 - [122] Tackling bonuses; Thought about them when making the ships and have been thinking about tthem ever since. First of all a range bonus for tackling weapons isn't good for all of these ships, they are small and hardest to track in the closest range + most of the ships get bonuses for weapons that work the best in 5-10km, some how ever like the crow is excellent to use with disruptors at 15km, specially now with rockets always getting that far, cap need bonus or strength bonus might sound more suitable for most of them. Secondly the stasis and scramblers will get dealt with when the EW system changes start (overhaul planned for early january), I added these bonuses as it was easy to do. The damage bonuses makes these ships feared, the cost alot and shouldn't be something that is only feared if they have bigger ships with them to deal the damage, these damage and tracking bonuses are also nice to take out big mean drones. Will still have a look at them at a later time, no promises about it happening at the same time as the EW changes though. 2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything.
Domatavus Fallatus	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:35:00 - [123] Edited by: Domatavus Fallatus on 22/12/2004 10:42:22 Originally by: Henka I dont wanna whine, but now Crow will be even MORe used in PVP. Moving FAST, and now they even get the 10% speed boost for missiles. Yeah right, what NOW are the taranis (or any other ship ingame) suposed to do now, besides to tank, vs a crow? Omg.. you will do the crow even more dominant on the interceptor market, No point giving taranis tracking bonus cuz, it will just die anyway. That the problem, dont give missiles any kind of bonus unless you fix the missiles first, there is no way in **** I will outrun the lights from a crow now (he can just move away/orbit and still get 100% hits, compared to the taranis wich needs to rely on its speed to even get close to hit anything). that missile speed + crow speed + light missiles avsome damage will just make crows unstoppable... lol, so you got killed by a crow at 20km range? almost all below you would've wtfpwned the crow quickly... btw: light missiles suck against ceptors most important changes are imho not the dmg or rof/fallof changes, but the warp speed and (hopefully) the ew changes, atm the only way to stop a frig from warping from a gate after jumping through, is to have a set of warp bubbles set up which takes so much time, that you could just as well setup a sniper... give ceptors a chance to intercept! (or let there be a ship which can do that) ------- My Posts only reflect my personal Opinion and NOT thoose of my Corp
Domatavus Fallatus	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:35:00 - [124] Edited by: Domatavus Fallatus on 22/12/2004 10:42:22 Originally by: Henka I dont wanna whine, but now Crow will be even MORe used in PVP. Moving FAST, and now they even get the 10% speed boost for missiles. Yeah right, what NOW are the taranis (or any other ship ingame) suposed to do now, besides to tank, vs a crow? Omg.. you will do the crow even more dominant on the interceptor market, No point giving taranis tracking bonus cuz, it will just die anyway. That the problem, dont give missiles any kind of bonus unless you fix the missiles first, there is no way in **** I will outrun the lights from a crow now (he can just move away/orbit and still get 100% hits, compared to the taranis wich needs to rely on its speed to even get close to hit anything). that missile speed + crow speed + light missiles avsome damage will just make crows unstoppable... lol, so you got killed by a crow at 20km range? almost all below you would've wtfpwned the crow quickly... btw: light missiles suck against ceptors most important changes are imho not the dmg or rof/fallof changes, but the warp speed and (hopefully) the ew changes, atm the only way to stop a frig from warping from a gate after jumping through, is to have a set of warp bubbles set up which takes so much time, that you could just as well setup a sniper... give ceptors a chance to intercept! (or let there be a ship which can do that) ------- My Posts only reflect my personal Opinion and NOT thoose of my Corp
Henka	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:46:00 - [125] well the problem is not 20k range, its the 500 meter range where blaster acctualy works. Rails have to bad tracking to be used in interceptor fights. Now that crow get increase in missile speeds, they WILL be able to take out my taranis in 20k ranges, but not if im running away, but i will more often then not be in 5k ranges and orbitting with speeds 1500m sec. where to the crow dont NEED to orbit at any range less then 20k range. And with increased missile speeds, well you get the picture. And i never drive crow, i only encounter them. Only solution so far has been a gravimetric ECM module but that forces me to run without scrambler (the webb is essential to even get close the already fast crow)
Henka	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:46:00 - [126] well the problem is not 20k range, its the 500 meter range where blaster acctualy works. Rails have to bad tracking to be used in interceptor fights. Now that crow get increase in missile speeds, they WILL be able to take out my taranis in 20k ranges, but not if im running away, but i will more often then not be in 5k ranges and orbitting with speeds 1500m sec. where to the crow dont NEED to orbit at any range less then 20k range. And with increased missile speeds, well you get the picture. And i never drive crow, i only encounter them. Only solution so far has been a gravimetric ECM module but that forces me to run without scrambler (the webb is essential to even get close the already fast crow)
Gunstar Zero	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:51:00 - [127] re: Raptor the thing that would still put me off flying one is the speed / mass. The extra armor is insignificant, bring the base speed / mass in line with a crow, preferably faster and you will have an equally popular, whilst sufficiently diverse ship. re: Interceptors in general I'm with Viceroy on the bonuses, improved sig radius reduction or something like 10% to scrambler range per inty level would be far more appropriate for the role.
Gunstar Zero	Posted - 2004.12.22 10:51:00 - [128] re: Raptor the thing that would still put me off flying one is the speed / mass. The extra armor is insignificant, bring the base speed / mass in line with a crow, preferably faster and you will have an equally popular, whilst sufficiently diverse ship. re: Interceptors in general I'm with Viceroy on the bonuses, improved sig radius reduction or something like 10% to scrambler range per inty level would be far more appropriate for the role.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.12.22 11:42:00 - [129] * Drunkenmaster wheels his Ares collection out of storage .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.12.22 11:42:00 - [130] * Drunkenmaster wheels his Ares collection out of storage .

JoCool	Posted - 2004.12.22 12:14:00 - [131] Yeah, onwards to the market. I need a fleet of Raptors!
JoCool	Posted - 2004.12.22 12:14:00 - [132] Yeah, onwards to the market. I need a fleet of Raptors!
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.12.22 12:54:00 - [133] Edited by: Grimpak on 22/12/2004 13:12:31 Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. ...splitting dmg bonuses and tackling bonuses between certain inties would be nice realy. Althou I would do something like this: Stilleto: would do nice with bonus to warp scrambling range. Stilleto is the ubber tacler of the inties with that ammount of meds. A web range bonus/speed bonus/better sig radious bonus would be good aswell. Would improve his survivability. Claw: it's a dmg dealer. Good tankability and lots of weapons. Think the upgrade is good actually. Taranis: Defenitely the pounder of the inty class. Would be nice a bonus to web range and improved sig radious. It suffers from the fact that it needs to be realy close to the ships for unleashing the dmg. Would be a nice bonus. Ares: I would push this lil' fella to a more interceptor anti-interceptor role. Bit more of armour, web range bonus and speed althou the 3rd med is apreciated. Oh and convert the 3 hi-slot layout to 3 turrets/2 missile hardpoints. Crusader: would be good in the same role as the Taranis and Claw. The tracking bonus realy suits him. Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Crow: Considered the best of them all, and is still the best. And tbh I don't know what I should say about him. Same role as taranis as dmg dealer? Defenitely. Raptor: The extra hi-slot, if a turret one, would be very welcome. Would put him in the same category as the Ares/Malediction/Stilleto, thus giving bonuses for tackling for him. In addition, I would boost the armour of the dmg dealer interceptor types, and the speed of the taclker speed types. And the warp speed improvemens suits the ships well. EDIT: forgot to tell that 10% sig radious bonus should be applied to the tackler ones, while maintaining the 5% in the dmg dealer ones. ofc that improving the Afrigs would be nice aswell TomB in a final note: I only fly gallente intys atm, and thus I only have experience on those, but I tried to be as much unbiased as possible. Still I might have commited some mistakes so feel free to correct me. Oh and ofc that these bonuses would be pretty balanced if applied with the EW overhaul. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.12.22 12:54:00 - [134] Edited by: Grimpak on 22/12/2004 13:12:31 Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. ...splitting dmg bonuses and tackling bonuses between certain inties would be nice realy. Althou I would do something like this: Stilleto: would do nice with bonus to warp scrambling range. Stilleto is the ubber tacler of the inties with that ammount of meds. A web range bonus/speed bonus/better sig radious bonus would be good aswell. Would improve his survivability. Claw: it's a dmg dealer. Good tankability and lots of weapons. Think the upgrade is good actually. Taranis: Defenitely the pounder of the inty class. Would be nice a bonus to web range and improved sig radious. It suffers from the fact that it needs to be realy close to the ships for unleashing the dmg. Would be a nice bonus. Ares: I would push this lil' fella to a more interceptor anti-interceptor role. Bit more of armour, web range bonus and speed althou the 3rd med is apreciated. Oh and convert the 3 hi-slot layout to 3 turrets/2 missile hardpoints. Crusader: would be good in the same role as the Taranis and Claw. The tracking bonus realy suits him. Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Crow: Considered the best of them all, and is still the best. And tbh I don't know what I should say about him. Same role as taranis as dmg dealer? Defenitely. Raptor: The extra hi-slot, if a turret one, would be very welcome. Would put him in the same category as the Ares/Malediction/Stilleto, thus giving bonuses for tackling for him. In addition, I would boost the armour of the dmg dealer interceptor types, and the speed of the taclker speed types. And the warp speed improvemens suits the ships well. EDIT: forgot to tell that 10% sig radious bonus should be applied to the tackler ones, while maintaining the 5% in the dmg dealer ones. ofc that improving the Afrigs would be nice aswell TomB in a final note: I only fly gallente intys atm, and thus I only have experience on those, but I tried to be as much unbiased as possible. Still I might have commited some mistakes so feel free to correct me. Oh and ofc that these bonuses would be pretty balanced if applied with the EW overhaul. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.22 13:26:00 - [135] give ares one more turret hardpoint.... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.22 13:26:00 - [136] give ares one more turret hardpoint.... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Slarty Bardfast	Posted - 2004.12.22 13:29:00 - [137] Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful?
Slarty Bardfast	Posted - 2004.12.22 13:29:00 - [138] Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful?
Snort Bilger	Posted - 2004.12.22 14:07:00 - [139] Very nice indeed
Snort Bilger	Posted - 2004.12.22 14:07:00 - [140] Very nice indeed

Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.22 14:11:00 - [141] Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful? wasnt Explosive missiles made by amarr?? give it Explosive bonus.... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.22 14:11:00 - [142] Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful? wasnt Explosive missiles made by amarr?? give it Explosive bonus.... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Kirive	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:09:00 - [143] Awesome changes. I'm a little sad to lose my RoF bonus (Taranis pilot), but i'm happy to get some extra damage and tracking. And my beeoooodiful Ares is now a viable ship! I never expected this. Merry christmas to you too TomB. - K (Incidentally, anyone who has a problem with interceptor damage output, remember how vulnerable they are) ---------------- Convictions: One (1) Count of Dangerous Driving, Trontsephori Roadway (Golter) {Monowheeled vehicle contravening local safety statutes}
Kirive	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:09:00 - [144] Awesome changes. I'm a little sad to lose my RoF bonus (Taranis pilot), but i'm happy to get some extra damage and tracking. And my beeoooodiful Ares is now a viable ship! I never expected this. Merry christmas to you too TomB. - K (Incidentally, anyone who has a problem with interceptor damage output, remember how vulnerable they are) ---------------- Convictions: One (1) Count of Dangerous Driving, Trontsephori Roadway (Golter) {Monowheeled vehicle contravening local safety statutes}
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:12:00 - [145] Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful? wasnt Explosive missiles made by amarr?? give it Explosive bonus.... explosive is minmatar, oh and Slarty, I mean from the 4 forsaken ones as the intys that are not as used as the 4 other ones. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Grimpak	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:12:00 - [146] Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful? wasnt Explosive missiles made by amarr?? give it Explosive bonus.... explosive is minmatar, oh and Slarty, I mean from the 4 forsaken ones as the intys that are not as used as the 4 other ones. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:15:00 - [147] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful? wasnt Explosive missiles made by amarr?? give it Explosive bonus.... explosive is minmatar, oh and Slarty, I mean from the 4 forsaken ones as the intys that are not as used as the 4 other ones. oh yea.. piranha light missile i Light assault missile. The Piranha is a tiny nuclear missile based on a classic Minmatar design that has been in use since the early days of the Minmatar Resistance. B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:15:00 - [148] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Bad'Boy Originally by: Slarty Bardfast Originally by: Grimpak Malediction: from the 4 forsaken intys, this is the most powerfull. I admit that I lost a fully equiped Taranis to a Malediction. I tried to close him but, he always kept at +10km range, with me webbed. improper range for taranis' blasters. Still, I belive that the upgrade suits them, and would use the same bonuses as the Stilleto. Hello Grimpak, thanks for the loot I would never have called the Malediction a "forsaken" inty, it was truely kickass. Upgrades are nice, and while the bonus to EM missile damage goes along with the Amarr theme, it's kinda pointless. Your lasers will strip the shields from anything pretty fast, and EM is useles on Armor. Perhaps thermal bonus would have been slightly more useful? wasnt Explosive missiles made by amarr?? give it Explosive bonus.... explosive is minmatar, oh and Slarty, I mean from the 4 forsaken ones as the intys that are not as used as the 4 other ones. oh yea.. piranha light missile i Light assault missile. The Piranha is a tiny nuclear missile based on a classic Minmatar design that has been in use since the early days of the Minmatar Resistance. B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Estios	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:19:00 - [149] Edited by: Estios on 22/12/2004 15:33:35 You state : "* These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are." I have to sit back in amazement tbh, THE STILETTO IS USELESS ??? The Stiletto OWNS at its role ie intercepting, if you are looking for extra bonuses it needs more cap or bonuses to web/scramble range/duration ...not dmg Whilst I totally respect the theory behind these changes , You should however probably look into how this will effect Assault Frigs because a well fitted Claw dishes out almost the same dmg as a Wolf and travels much much faster and costs a 3rd of the price and requires less training A tiny speed and agility boost to Assaults wouldnt go amiss So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Estios	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:19:00 - [150] Edited by: Estios on 22/12/2004 15:33:35 You state : "* These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are." I have to sit back in amazement tbh, THE STILETTO IS USELESS ??? The Stiletto OWNS at its role ie intercepting, if you are looking for extra bonuses it needs more cap or bonuses to web/scramble range/duration ...not dmg Whilst I totally respect the theory behind these changes , You should however probably look into how this will effect Assault Frigs because a well fitted Claw dishes out almost the same dmg as a Wolf and travels much much faster and costs a 3rd of the price and requires less training A tiny speed and agility boost to Assaults wouldnt go amiss So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.

Estios	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:22:00 - [151] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Oh he already said what I just said, sort of IN-TER-CEP-TORS should NOT be dishing out the same sort of damage as Assault Frigs. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Estios	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:22:00 - [152] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Oh he already said what I just said, sort of IN-TER-CEP-TORS should NOT be dishing out the same sort of damage as Assault Frigs. So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Sewell	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:42:00 - [153] /me loves tomb again
Sewell	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:42:00 - [154] /me loves tomb again
JoCool	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:58:00 - [155] It's not that Interceptors are too good, Assault frigates are not good enough in my opinion. You could expect more for 25 to 35 million isk ;)
JoCool	Posted - 2004.12.22 15:58:00 - [156] It's not that Interceptors are too good, Assault frigates are not good enough in my opinion. You could expect more for 25 to 35 million isk ;)
OrazoN	Posted - 2004.12.22 16:23:00 - [157] Sorry but I wont fly any ceptors in battle again until missiles get nerfed. Got toasted way too many times by cruise volleys while trying to tackle bigger ships (that's what they are supposed to do after all). I'd like to see the point where big ships have to fit small guns or tiny missiles in order to deal with ceptors (or have anti-ceptors escort as everyopne said 2324 times) Increasing EW equipment range is a start but not enough.
OrazoN	Posted - 2004.12.22 16:23:00 - [158] Sorry but I wont fly any ceptors in battle again until missiles get nerfed. Got toasted way too many times by cruise volleys while trying to tackle bigger ships (that's what they are supposed to do after all). I'd like to see the point where big ships have to fit small guns or tiny missiles in order to deal with ceptors (or have anti-ceptors escort as everyopne said 2324 times) Increasing EW equipment range is a start but not enough.
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.22 16:48:00 - [159] Edited by: Liz Bathory on 22/12/2004 16:48:13 there are two types of intercepting out there intercepting a big ship, means getting webs and warp scrambles on it, so it can't escape, and your bs frinds can then blow it apart intercepting a frigate involves being enough faster than it to force an engagement, and then wtfbbqing it in the minimum number of seconds possible look at the TomB damned midslots on the things, and you will see there is a clear dividing line between those good at ew (stiletto), obviously intended to catch battlships then you have ships like the claw, with lots of guns and a reasonoble defence, but only 2 midslots, that means no real ability to act as a catcher, since well over half of battleships have at least 2 wcs, so it is obvoisly intedned for incercepting and destroying small ships in short, look at the ships, think for more than 1/3rd of a second, and then ***** about them doing too much damage yes, i can kill a cruiser easily, if the cruiser pilot is a damned fool a cruiser pilot with a webbifier, and otherwise EXACTLY the same setup, will so throughly pwn me, that i won;t have time to select a warp point before popping. if you doubt me, look at my last three kills and deaths on the BoB killboard, (http://www.killboard.net)
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.22 16:48:00 - [160] Edited by: Liz Bathory on 22/12/2004 16:48:13 there are two types of intercepting out there intercepting a big ship, means getting webs and warp scrambles on it, so it can't escape, and your bs frinds can then blow it apart intercepting a frigate involves being enough faster than it to force an engagement, and then wtfbbqing it in the minimum number of seconds possible look at the TomB damned midslots on the things, and you will see there is a clear dividing line between those good at ew (stiletto), obviously intended to catch battlships then you have ships like the claw, with lots of guns and a reasonoble defence, but only 2 midslots, that means no real ability to act as a catcher, since well over half of battleships have at least 2 wcs, so it is obvoisly intedned for incercepting and destroying small ships in short, look at the ships, think for more than 1/3rd of a second, and then ***** about them doing too much damage yes, i can kill a cruiser easily, if the cruiser pilot is a damned fool a cruiser pilot with a webbifier, and otherwise EXACTLY the same setup, will so throughly pwn me, that i won;t have time to select a warp point before popping. if you doubt me, look at my last three kills and deaths on the BoB killboard, (http://www.killboard.net)

hooj	Posted - 2004.12.22 16:51:00 - [161] just a quick comparison of the amarr inties: Crusader: 4-2-4 slots, 4 turret points Malediction: 4-3-3 slots, 3 turret points, 2 missile points with the crusader having an almost useless second bonus & the versatility of missiles and mid slots on the malediction it seems like a pretty heavy swing the other way. Perhaps the Crusader should get another mid slot or better second bonus
hooj	Posted - 2004.12.22 16:51:00 - [162] just a quick comparison of the amarr inties: Crusader: 4-2-4 slots, 4 turret points Malediction: 4-3-3 slots, 3 turret points, 2 missile points with the crusader having an almost useless second bonus & the versatility of missiles and mid slots on the malediction it seems like a pretty heavy swing the other way. Perhaps the Crusader should get another mid slot or better second bonus
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:07:00 - [163] Flying mainly Crusaders myself, and i dont like the idea of a third medslot. It would make the Crusader EASILY the best Inti around. And while i agree that tracking may not be the best bonus for allready WELL sufficient tracking lasers, falloff or optimal range wont help it any more then tracking. And another damage bonus would make it overpowered again. Crusader's fine imho. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:07:00 - [164] Flying mainly Crusaders myself, and i dont like the idea of a third medslot. It would make the Crusader EASILY the best Inti around. And while i agree that tracking may not be the best bonus for allready WELL sufficient tracking lasers, falloff or optimal range wont help it any more then tracking. And another damage bonus would make it overpowered again. Crusader's fine imho. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:19:00 - [165] Being predominantly a Crusader/Malediction pilot, a 3rd mid-slot on the Crusader would be nice, however, impractical due to the low CPU of the Crusader. I'm not asking for a CPU upgrade, btw. The tracking bonus change would allow me to drop a tech2 computer from low and put in a more useful and CPU friendly module. I LIKE these changes. I always felt it was patently unfair that all the other races have a inty with a missile slot, while the amarr had none. I'd be happy with a single launcher point. Two is pretty sweet. It'll allow me to vary my setup more AND maybe survive cruise barrages when tackling ravens (hullo defenders). The only thing that I don't like is the maledictions second bonus of EM missile dmg. Like everyone else, I'd rather have bonus's geared towards tackling, ie webber/scrambler range or disruptor cap use. And as long as Santa (TomB) is listening to what we all want for Christmas, can we have the 10% sig radius bonus back? Remove all dmg bonus's if you need to. I don't care about how much dmg I do, I care about being able to quickly lock, approach, and tackle my target without getting insta-wtfbbqfisted by missiles.
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:19:00 - [166] Being predominantly a Crusader/Malediction pilot, a 3rd mid-slot on the Crusader would be nice, however, impractical due to the low CPU of the Crusader. I'm not asking for a CPU upgrade, btw. The tracking bonus change would allow me to drop a tech2 computer from low and put in a more useful and CPU friendly module. I LIKE these changes. I always felt it was patently unfair that all the other races have a inty with a missile slot, while the amarr had none. I'd be happy with a single launcher point. Two is pretty sweet. It'll allow me to vary my setup more AND maybe survive cruise barrages when tackling ravens (hullo defenders). The only thing that I don't like is the maledictions second bonus of EM missile dmg. Like everyone else, I'd rather have bonus's geared towards tackling, ie webber/scrambler range or disruptor cap use. And as long as Santa (TomB) is listening to what we all want for Christmas, can we have the 10% sig radius bonus back? Remove all dmg bonus's if you need to. I don't care about how much dmg I do, I care about being able to quickly lock, approach, and tackle my target without getting insta-wtfbbqfisted by missiles.
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:29:00 - [167] Edited by: Erucyll Turon on 22/12/2004 17:28:55 taranis will still wtfpwn everything in site :(
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:29:00 - [168] Edited by: Erucyll Turon on 22/12/2004 17:28:55 taranis will still wtfpwn everything in site :(
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:32:00 - [169] Well, now its just the Claw and Crusader with only 2 medslots. That makes them alot less useful than say, the Crow which can do alot of damage while still having 3 medslots to throw in a scrambler. Still think the Stiletto was fine, and the Ares boost is a bit too much.
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:32:00 - [170] Well, now its just the Claw and Crusader with only 2 medslots. That makes them alot less useful than say, the Crow which can do alot of damage while still having 3 medslots to throw in a scrambler. Still think the Stiletto was fine, and the Ares boost is a bit too much.

Arkanis	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:37:00 - [171] Welcome changes. However, the Malediction will require a small cpu bump if you're going to give it launchers. My Malediction is maxed on cpu and I just have three turrets on. Or you could switch that new high for an extra low. :D
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:37:00 - [172] Welcome changes. However, the Malediction will require a small cpu bump if you're going to give it launchers. My Malediction is maxed on cpu and I just have three turrets on. Or you could switch that new high for an extra low. :D
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:44:00 - [173] I've NEVER had CPU problems fitting out a Malediction, with the exception of trying to put 2 energized membranes on and not having the CPU, which I fixed by either downgrading weapons or upgrading to named items.... The Crusader's CPU is another matter entirely....
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:44:00 - [174] I've NEVER had CPU problems fitting out a Malediction, with the exception of trying to put 2 energized membranes on and not having the CPU, which I fixed by either downgrading weapons or upgrading to named items.... The Crusader's CPU is another matter entirely....
Leyla Anshley	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:53:00 - [175] it'll be cool if inty's sig radius will not be nerfed with mwd's.... inty's real advantage is sig raduis descreasing bonus... but mwd makes it to zero.
Leyla Anshley	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:53:00 - [176] it'll be cool if inty's sig radius will not be nerfed with mwd's.... inty's real advantage is sig raduis descreasing bonus... but mwd makes it to zero.
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:58:00 - [177] Yes, the Crusader has little cpu, but if anything it should get like an extra 2.5 powergrid. My Malediction is set out to be as offensive as I can get it, hence my full cpu I apologise, I wasn't quite thinking and forgot I had this set up on the cpu on the Malediction is fine. The addictional highslot is nice, but quite useless. An extra low slot would be more beneficial. 3/3/4 (hi/med/low) with the three launcher two missile suggested. Also, I know all interceptors are losing their ROF bonus, but won't this hurt Crow's more? Launcher's take a while to fire, is their replacement damage increase enough of a bonus to take off the rof loss? The Raptor at the moment is quite pants, but the extra highslot that would allow it to 2/2 on launcher and turret is nice, but would a third turret be better? Or instead making it four midslots like the stiletto? Seems strange that a matari ship has more midslots than a caldari. :P While these changes look all good, assaults will need to be boosted to compensate. (If anyone has a decent Vengeance set up, can they point me towards the right direction? Thanks.)
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:58:00 - [178] Yes, the Crusader has little cpu, but if anything it should get like an extra 2.5 powergrid. My Malediction is set out to be as offensive as I can get it, hence my full cpu I apologise, I wasn't quite thinking and forgot I had this set up on the cpu on the Malediction is fine. The addictional highslot is nice, but quite useless. An extra low slot would be more beneficial. 3/3/4 (hi/med/low) with the three launcher two missile suggested. Also, I know all interceptors are losing their ROF bonus, but won't this hurt Crow's more? Launcher's take a while to fire, is their replacement damage increase enough of a bonus to take off the rof loss? The Raptor at the moment is quite pants, but the extra highslot that would allow it to 2/2 on launcher and turret is nice, but would a third turret be better? Or instead making it four midslots like the stiletto? Seems strange that a matari ship has more midslots than a caldari. :P While these changes look all good, assaults will need to be boosted to compensate. (If anyone has a decent Vengeance set up, can they point me towards the right direction? Thanks.)
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:59:00 - [179] I agree. There were already countless ways to nail intys: Webs, NOS, drones, SB's, etc. Not to mention the sometimes long distance we needed to traverse to put tackling gear on target. It's all well and good to say 'fly at an angle'. At some point, you have to point your nose at the target. I think the great 'undoing' of inties was when they changed wrecking shots. Not that I'm complainig. I expect to get pwned sometimes. Just not ALL the time. Else, why not just use a vigil?
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.12.22 17:59:00 - [180] I agree. There were already countless ways to nail intys: Webs, NOS, drones, SB's, etc. Not to mention the sometimes long distance we needed to traverse to put tackling gear on target. It's all well and good to say 'fly at an angle'. At some point, you have to point your nose at the target. I think the great 'undoing' of inties was when they changed wrecking shots. Not that I'm complainig. I expect to get pwned sometimes. Just not ALL the time. Else, why not just use a vigil?

Kurenin	Posted - 2004.12.22 18:20:00 - [181] Why are you giving the malediction 1 more highslots and 2 missile slots, when it hasn't got the powergrid to fill them? ----- [22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas? [22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming Inactivity wins you.
Kurenin	Posted - 2004.12.22 18:20:00 - [182] Why are you giving the malediction 1 more highslots and 2 missile slots, when it hasn't got the powergrid to fill them? ----- [22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas? [22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming Inactivity wins you.
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.12.22 18:31:00 - [183] Edited by: Arkanis on 22/12/2004 18:31:25 I guess we know the micro aux is the first thing on the ship now.
Arkanis	Posted - 2004.12.22 18:31:00 - [184] Edited by: Arkanis on 22/12/2004 18:31:25 I guess we know the micro aux is the first thing on the ship now.
Perry	Posted - 2004.12.22 21:28:00 - [185] Malediction has enough powergrid, really. Exchange two turrets by two launchers and you have more grid then you think. Cpu can get hairy, though.
Perry	Posted - 2004.12.22 21:28:00 - [186] Malediction has enough powergrid, really. Exchange two turrets by two launchers and you have more grid then you think. Cpu can get hairy, though.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2004.12.22 23:46:00 - [187] Quote: Claw: +5 Projectile Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Crusader: +5 Laser Tracking per Inteceptor lvl I don't think that these are the right bonuses for these ships. With their high grid, high speed and 2 midslots each, both ships work best shooting big guns as far from their targets as they can be while still having a 20k on them. Lasers don't need the tracking boost, and Arties track so poorly that 20-25% more isn't going to help. I would much rather have a optimal, falloff or speed bonus. A cap bonus so they could run a 20k for more than 2 cycles would also work. While we're talking about the claw, What would really be nice is a little more locking range. Even another 3k would make a huge difference.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2004.12.22 23:46:00 - [188] Quote: Claw: +5 Projectile Tracking per Inteceptor lvl Crusader: +5 Laser Tracking per Inteceptor lvl I don't think that these are the right bonuses for these ships. With their high grid, high speed and 2 midslots each, both ships work best shooting big guns as far from their targets as they can be while still having a 20k on them. Lasers don't need the tracking boost, and Arties track so poorly that 20-25% more isn't going to help. I would much rather have a optimal, falloff or speed bonus. A cap bonus so they could run a 20k for more than 2 cycles would also work. While we're talking about the claw, What would really be nice is a little more locking range. Even another 3k would make a huge difference.
Teela Belwynn	Posted - 2004.12.23 00:06:00 - [189] i second post above mee ♥Teela's Galaxy!
Teela Belwynn	Posted - 2004.12.23 00:06:00 - [190] i second post above mee ♥Teela's Galaxy!

K1th	Posted - 2004.12.23 00:14:00 - [191] i like the new changes ty tomb --------------------------
K1th	Posted - 2004.12.23 00:14:00 - [192] i like the new changes ty tomb --------------------------
Weirda	Posted - 2004.12.23 01:27:00 - [193] Originally by: K1th i like the new changes ty tomb Ditto! -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Weirda	Posted - 2004.12.23 01:27:00 - [194] Originally by: K1th i like the new changes ty tomb Ditto! -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 01:43:00 - [195] well imo i like my claw close range, but i think a cap/speed bonus is more fitting. ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 01:43:00 - [196] well imo i like my claw close range, but i think a cap/speed bonus is more fitting. ----- ----- -----
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.23 04:36:00 - [197] I'd much rather see a Cap or Optimal bonus on the Crusader. Lasers hit pretty easily, even when MWDing within Multifreq range. Even MORE tracking isn't really much of a bonus. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.23 04:36:00 - [198] I'd much rather see a Cap or Optimal bonus on the Crusader. Lasers hit pretty easily, even when MWDing within Multifreq range. Even MORE tracking isn't really much of a bonus. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2004.12.23 08:53:00 - [199] It seems to me that it would make more sense to give the Raptor the missile speed bonus and the Crow the kinetic missile damage bonus, seeing as how the Crow is supposed to be the more damage-oriented one while making the Raptor more versatile at range and combating high-speed targets.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2004.12.23 08:53:00 - [200] It seems to me that it would make more sense to give the Raptor the missile speed bonus and the Crow the kinetic missile damage bonus, seeing as how the Crow is supposed to be the more damage-oriented one while making the Raptor more versatile at range and combating high-speed targets.

Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.23 09:13:00 - [201] The Crow already gets that damage bonus. Hell, it gets 50% now instead of 25%. Though it loses the ROF. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.23 09:13:00 - [202] The Crow already gets that damage bonus. Hell, it gets 50% now instead of 25%. Though it loses the ROF. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2004.12.23 10:30:00 - [203] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 23/12/2004 10:39:44 Hm, I suppose thats alright. I dunno, I always figured the Raptor to be the Interceptor that you used if you had to fight other Interceptors or fast frigates as Caldari. Thus, the missile speed bonus seems more suited for it. And with that extra high slot, a Raptor pilot will be able to fit 2 launchers and 2 turrets, and if it had +5% kinetic missile damage along with its +5% hybrid turret damage it seems like it would be outdamaging the Crow, which is intended to be the hard-hitting older brother. I guess I'd have to try it to really see.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2004.12.23 10:30:00 - [204] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 23/12/2004 10:39:44 Hm, I suppose thats alright. I dunno, I always figured the Raptor to be the Interceptor that you used if you had to fight other Interceptors or fast frigates as Caldari. Thus, the missile speed bonus seems more suited for it. And with that extra high slot, a Raptor pilot will be able to fit 2 launchers and 2 turrets, and if it had +5% kinetic missile damage along with its +5% hybrid turret damage it seems like it would be outdamaging the Crow, which is intended to be the hard-hitting older brother. I guess I'd have to try it to really see.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.23 11:06:00 - [205] Originally by: Selim Well, now its just the Claw and Crusader with only 2 medslots. That makes them alot less useful than say, the Crow which can do alot of damage while still having 3 medslots to throw in a scrambler. Still think the Stiletto was fine, and the Ares boost is a bit too much. Claw's fine dude. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.23 11:06:00 - [206] Originally by: Selim Well, now its just the Claw and Crusader with only 2 medslots. That makes them alot less useful than say, the Crow which can do alot of damage while still having 3 medslots to throw in a scrambler. Still think the Stiletto was fine, and the Ares boost is a bit too much. Claw's fine dude. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Majaraw Awalabas	Posted - 2004.12.23 11:14:00 - [207] Interesting changes, I'm mainly a malediction pilot (bless those who have destructed before) and so the boost for it is appreciated. The CPU is not going to be a problem for my outfit, guess the grid will however preclude the use of a launcher at the moment, guess it's time for Engineering 5.
Majaraw Awalabas	Posted - 2004.12.23 11:14:00 - [208] Interesting changes, I'm mainly a malediction pilot (bless those who have destructed before) and so the boost for it is appreciated. The CPU is not going to be a problem for my outfit, guess the grid will however preclude the use of a launcher at the moment, guess it's time for Engineering 5.
TIO 101	Posted - 2004.12.23 11:20:00 - [209] i dont like the loss of the ROF bonus, but if it helps with reducing stress on servers gotta be a good thing. Taranis still gona be cool, +25 damage + 25 Damage? +(upto) 25% tracking aka damage? <- that correct? h4xb4n
TIO 101	Posted - 2004.12.23 11:20:00 - [210] i dont like the loss of the ROF bonus, but if it helps with reducing stress on servers gotta be a good thing. Taranis still gona be cool, +25 damage + 25 Damage? +(upto) 25% tracking aka damage? <- that correct? h4xb4n

Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 13:23:00 - [211] if i recall, the 25% rof bonus equates to 33% damage, so in the end you're only losing 8% damage - and so is everyone else :) ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 13:23:00 - [212] if i recall, the 25% rof bonus equates to 33% damage, so in the end you're only losing 8% damage - and so is everyone else :) ----- ----- -----
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2004.12.23 16:41:00 - [213] Very cool. I like all the changes but I'd welcome bonuses to webber/warp scrambler range as much or more than the additional damage bonues. Duration bonuses are BAD on those types of modules as it makes it harder to switch targets like, from ship to pod. Range bonuses would really give people motivation to use these ships over say, a vigil. Also, the Raptor has only adequate powergird now, with additional slots powergrid and cpu may need to be looked at on some of the ships. As far as interceptors designed to kill things it seems to me that if a crow intercepts and kills a frigate it's doing it's job and that is keeping bigger ships alive. ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Levin Cavil	Posted - 2004.12.23 16:41:00 - [214] Very cool. I like all the changes but I'd welcome bonuses to webber/warp scrambler range as much or more than the additional damage bonues. Duration bonuses are BAD on those types of modules as it makes it harder to switch targets like, from ship to pod. Range bonuses would really give people motivation to use these ships over say, a vigil. Also, the Raptor has only adequate powergird now, with additional slots powergrid and cpu may need to be looked at on some of the ships. As far as interceptors designed to kill things it seems to me that if a crow intercepts and kills a frigate it's doing it's job and that is keeping bigger ships alive. ------------------------------ <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
The Enslaver	Posted - 2004.12.23 17:25:00 - [215] w00t for TomB -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
The Enslaver	Posted - 2004.12.23 17:25:00 - [216] w00t for TomB -------- FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU.
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.23 18:35:00 - [217] Someone suggested giving the Crusader the optimal range bonus instead of tracking. I'd like this. I'm not sure about the claw, though. Autocannons would do nice with extra tracking, but extra falloff would be nice, too.
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.23 18:35:00 - [218] Someone suggested giving the Crusader the optimal range bonus instead of tracking. I'd like this. I'm not sure about the claw, though. Autocannons would do nice with extra tracking, but extra falloff would be nice, too.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2004.12.23 19:42:00 - [219] Originally by: Selim Someone suggested giving the Crusader the optimal range bonus instead of tracking. I'd like this. I'm not sure about the claw, though. Autocannons would do nice with extra tracking, but extra falloff would be nice, too. Falloff works for both arties and ACs, so that would work for the claw pretty well. It looks like Arties will be getting a range boost, and ACs a tracking buff anyway though, so maybe something else should be considered. Another 10 m/s per level would make the Claw the undisputed fastest ship in EVE. That is supposed to be the Minmatar specialty, and it shouldn't unbalance anything.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2004.12.23 19:42:00 - [220] Originally by: Selim Someone suggested giving the Crusader the optimal range bonus instead of tracking. I'd like this. I'm not sure about the claw, though. Autocannons would do nice with extra tracking, but extra falloff would be nice, too. Falloff works for both arties and ACs, so that would work for the claw pretty well. It looks like Arties will be getting a range boost, and ACs a tracking buff anyway though, so maybe something else should be considered. Another 10 m/s per level would make the Claw the undisputed fastest ship in EVE. That is supposed to be the Minmatar specialty, and it shouldn't unbalance anything.

Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:05:00 - [221] indeed, i would say a speed bonus would be more fitting for the claw. ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:05:00 - [222] indeed, i would say a speed bonus would be more fitting for the claw. ----- ----- -----
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:33:00 - [223] Originally by: Vampire Blade indeed, i would say a speed bonus would be more fitting for the claw. I'd rather see its mass decreased... it's the fastest inty, granted, but also one of the heaviest, if not the one. How's that for speed? Frankly, the so-called 'speed' advantage of minmatar ships is null. The difference is not enough to be felt...
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:33:00 - [224] Originally by: Vampire Blade indeed, i would say a speed bonus would be more fitting for the claw. I'd rather see its mass decreased... it's the fastest inty, granted, but also one of the heaviest, if not the one. How's that for speed? Frankly, the so-called 'speed' advantage of minmatar ships is null. The difference is not enough to be felt...
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:42:00 - [225] whether it's x% speed gain per level or x% reduced ship mass per level, it all equates to the same cookie. ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:42:00 - [226] whether it's x% speed gain per level or x% reduced ship mass per level, it all equates to the same cookie. ----- ----- -----
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:51:00 - [227] Well, Claw is fastest with mwd despite the mass already. Its really good at choosing the range of engagement.
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:51:00 - [228] Well, Claw is fastest with mwd despite the mass already. Its really good at choosing the range of engagement.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:59:00 - [229] Originally by: Vampire Blade whether it's x% speed gain per level or x% reduced ship mass per level, it all equates to the same cookie. Not quite. Less mass means it manouvers better. Which I'd like "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.23 20:59:00 - [230] Originally by: Vampire Blade whether it's x% speed gain per level or x% reduced ship mass per level, it all equates to the same cookie. Not quite. Less mass means it manouvers better. Which I'd like "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"

Kalfu	Posted - 2004.12.23 21:16:00 - [231] Originally by: jukriamrr [Frankly, the so-called 'speed' advantage of minmatar ships is null. The difference is not enough to be felt... Minmatar: we run away really quick.
Kalfu	Posted - 2004.12.23 21:16:00 - [232] Originally by: jukriamrr [Frankly, the so-called 'speed' advantage of minmatar ships is null. The difference is not enough to be felt... Minmatar: we run away really quick.
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2004.12.23 23:01:00 - [233] Minmitar: We 'try' to hit you then run away really quickly.
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2004.12.23 23:01:00 - [234] Minmitar: We 'try' to hit you then run away really quickly.
Seraph Demon	Posted - 2004.12.24 00:16:00 - [235] while i'd like to get a mass reduction (aka agility bonus) I think the claw is heavy because it is the fastest (ie, balance issues) on that note, 5% bonus to speed per level would be fabulous for the Claw, but I would prefer tracking bonus for autos... unless they're gonna get some luv anyway EVEN cooler would be if the Claw (and only the claw) had a 10% reduction in sig radius instead of having an extra bonus (where all the other inties have 5% sig rad bonus + some other bonus).
Seraph Demon	Posted - 2004.12.24 00:16:00 - [236] while i'd like to get a mass reduction (aka agility bonus) I think the claw is heavy because it is the fastest (ie, balance issues) on that note, 5% bonus to speed per level would be fabulous for the Claw, but I would prefer tracking bonus for autos... unless they're gonna get some luv anyway EVEN cooler would be if the Claw (and only the claw) had a 10% reduction in sig radius instead of having an extra bonus (where all the other inties have 5% sig rad bonus + some other bonus).
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.24 00:19:00 - [237] hmmm.. amd i on to something here or is there more than 3 people who use the claw?! c'mon, be proud and show your hands! o/ ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.24 00:19:00 - [238] hmmm.. amd i on to something here or is there more than 3 people who use the claw?! c'mon, be proud and show your hands! o/ ----- ----- -----
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.12.24 01:02:00 - [239] So why not as others have suggested, make the second bonus for inties, instead of tracking/velocity, whatever, 5% reduction in weight....that would tie in beautifully with the 5% signature radius bonus and give a further interceptor related bonus that would benefit all ships with greater boost from propulsion modules. ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.12.24 01:02:00 - [240] So why not as others have suggested, make the second bonus for inties, instead of tracking/velocity, whatever, 5% reduction in weight....that would tie in beautifully with the 5% signature radius bonus and give a further interceptor related bonus that would benefit all ships with greater boost from propulsion modules. ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals

Mockingbird	Posted - 2004.12.24 01:43:00 - [241] What do you guys think of this? i can fly all ceptors except minmatar which i am training. but i find myself using my malediction almost 100% of the time. i am using t2 lasers on it and the 3 midslots are perfect. i very rarely lose a pvp fight in an interceptor in my malediction except for stray missiles from crows hitting me afterwards it just seems strange that malediction is a match for almost anything yet it is considered obselete by some players. im hoping the extra highslot will help it become even more powerful tho . but plz make it a therm missile bonus! em will be useless as anyone can see.
Mockingbird	Posted - 2004.12.24 01:43:00 - [242] What do you guys think of this? i can fly all ceptors except minmatar which i am training. but i find myself using my malediction almost 100% of the time. i am using t2 lasers on it and the 3 midslots are perfect. i very rarely lose a pvp fight in an interceptor in my malediction except for stray missiles from crows hitting me afterwards it just seems strange that malediction is a match for almost anything yet it is considered obselete by some players. im hoping the extra highslot will help it become even more powerful tho . but plz make it a therm missile bonus! em will be useless as anyone can see.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.24 01:47:00 - [243] so.. you're pretty much content with your cake. you're given a nicer piece of cake. but you want a bigger piece of cake? ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.24 01:47:00 - [244] so.. you're pretty much content with your cake. you're given a nicer piece of cake. but you want a bigger piece of cake? ----- ----- -----
Sorja	Posted - 2004.12.24 02:58:00 - [245] Well, if availability of interceptors was fixed, more people could probably voice their opinion Or, if CCP thinks the tech II lottery is the best system ever, raise insurance payout or something
Sorja	Posted - 2004.12.24 02:58:00 - [246] Well, if availability of interceptors was fixed, more people could probably voice their opinion Or, if CCP thinks the tech II lottery is the best system ever, raise insurance payout or something
Carmen Priano	Posted - 2004.12.24 07:22:00 - [247] Not sure on whether this has been mentioned (am doing the family vacation thing and haven't had a chance to catch up yet), but here's a potential problem: interceptors with ROF/damage bonus having their bonuses condensed into one uber damage bonus will now actually have 1 skill-based modifier -- true, it'll be the value of the two skill factors of other interceptors, it'll still technically be one modifier. Any token skill effect to be put in to replace the 'lost' modifier?
Carmen Priano	Posted - 2004.12.24 07:22:00 - [248] Not sure on whether this has been mentioned (am doing the family vacation thing and haven't had a chance to catch up yet), but here's a potential problem: interceptors with ROF/damage bonus having their bonuses condensed into one uber damage bonus will now actually have 1 skill-based modifier -- true, it'll be the value of the two skill factors of other interceptors, it'll still technically be one modifier. Any token skill effect to be put in to replace the 'lost' modifier?
Altai Saker	Posted - 2004.12.24 08:10:00 - [249] Can we/are we getting -10% sig radius per lvl? plz plz plz
Altai Saker	Posted - 2004.12.24 08:10:00 - [250] Can we/are we getting -10% sig radius per lvl? plz plz plz

BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.24 14:02:00 - [251] Originally by: Vampire Blade hmmm.. amd i on to something here or is there more than 3 people who use the claw?! c'mon, be proud and show your hands! o/ \o I use both Claw and Stiletto, depending on purpose (although i don't mission in my Claw anymore, since the propulsion and missile changes).
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.24 14:02:00 - [252] Originally by: Vampire Blade hmmm.. amd i on to something here or is there more than 3 people who use the claw?! c'mon, be proud and show your hands! o/ \o I use both Claw and Stiletto, depending on purpose (although i don't mission in my Claw anymore, since the propulsion and missile changes).
Mockingbird	Posted - 2004.12.24 17:37:00 - [253] Originally by: Vampire Blade so.. you're pretty much content with your cake. you're given a nicer piece of cake. but you want a bigger piece of cake? lol. well it is christmas. i was just making the point that 2 midslots are limiting ships way too much :/. enemies sometimes dont want to be caught so you need some way to intercept them.
Mockingbird	Posted - 2004.12.24 17:37:00 - [254] Originally by: Vampire Blade so.. you're pretty much content with your cake. you're given a nicer piece of cake. but you want a bigger piece of cake? lol. well it is christmas. i was just making the point that 2 midslots are limiting ships way too much :/. enemies sometimes dont want to be caught so you need some way to intercept them.
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2004.12.24 17:39:00 - [255] I used to fly the claw constantly untill a celestial apocalypse taranis ganked me in under 5 seconds :\
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2004.12.24 17:39:00 - [256] I used to fly the claw constantly untill a celestial apocalypse taranis ganked me in under 5 seconds :\
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.24 20:41:00 - [257] Originally by: Mockingbird Originally by: Vampire Blade so.. you're pretty much content with your cake. you're given a nicer piece of cake. but you want a bigger piece of cake? lol. well it is christmas. i was just making the point that 2 midslots are limiting ships way too much :/. enemies sometimes dont want to be caught so you need some way to intercept them. Personally, i'd rather keep the 4/2/4 loadout of the claw than switch to a more conventional 4/3/3.
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.24 20:41:00 - [258] Originally by: Mockingbird Originally by: Vampire Blade so.. you're pretty much content with your cake. you're given a nicer piece of cake. but you want a bigger piece of cake? lol. well it is christmas. i was just making the point that 2 midslots are limiting ships way too much :/. enemies sometimes dont want to be caught so you need some way to intercept them. Personally, i'd rather keep the 4/2/4 loadout of the claw than switch to a more conventional 4/3/3.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.24 22:17:00 - [259] Originally by: Vampire Blade hmmm.. amd i on to something here or is there more than 3 people who use the claw?! c'mon, be proud and show your hands! o/ The Claw is one NASTY as hell interceptor "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.24 22:17:00 - [260] Originally by: Vampire Blade hmmm.. amd i on to something here or is there more than 3 people who use the claw?! c'mon, be proud and show your hands! o/ The Claw is one NASTY as hell interceptor "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"

Selim	Posted - 2004.12.25 00:00:00 - [261] The fact that they're cheap as hell doesn't hurt
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.25 00:00:00 - [262] The fact that they're cheap as hell doesn't hurt
Magorath	Posted - 2004.12.25 00:30:00 - [263] Claw is awsome, and giving the stiletto a missile slot and giving it an extra low is really gonna bost its power. I think people are gonna start moaning when their ships are getting blown up by stilettos.
Magorath	Posted - 2004.12.25 00:30:00 - [264] Claw is awsome, and giving the stiletto a missile slot and giving it an extra low is really gonna bost its power. I think people are gonna start moaning when their ships are getting blown up by stilettos.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.25 01:26:00 - [265] Originally by: Magorath Claw is awsome, and giving the stiletto a missile slot and giving it an extra low is really gonna bost its power. I think people are gonna start moaning when their ships are getting blown up by stilettos. 5 today up to yet, i hope they get over it ;( ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.25 01:26:00 - [266] Originally by: Magorath Claw is awsome, and giving the stiletto a missile slot and giving it an extra low is really gonna bost its power. I think people are gonna start moaning when their ships are getting blown up by stilettos. 5 today up to yet, i hope they get over it ;( ----- ----- -----
Mospeada	Posted - 2004.12.25 01:48:00 - [267] Merry Christmas Inty pilots....what do you want for christmas now after the patch? Well I've always flown crows and find that getting hit by bs guns with my ship doing 4400m/s is rediculous. I suppose that with a sig radius of 172meters it JUST might give someone something to shoot at. I'd appreciate a lower Signature radius, as that is all we have left when speed fails. Keep in mind modern day ships have several anti-aircraft capabilities. Missiles, Radar controlled guns etc. They deffinatley wouldnt fire 15inch guns at aircraft from the USS New Jersey. BS are weapons platforms designed for big targets. I think that a bs should surrender high slots for smaller guns to get smaller targets. The other thing is targeting range on modern fighter aircraft is well over 100km (take the 'old' phoenix for example). Why do missiles and frigs have such a short targeting range? (how many of us have 'long range targeting V' and find it doesnt really make a dif on smaller ships? Shouldnt Frigs and Inty's have the target range of a base cruiser? Oh yeah, what about torps or Harpoon missiles? sigh remembering the ol' kestrel gank squad. Tell me what you think... :) Just some food for thought. Anyhow merry christamas all..oh and if anyone out there has a working crow setup I'd really like the help.
Mospeada	Posted - 2004.12.25 01:48:00 - [268] Merry Christmas Inty pilots....what do you want for christmas now after the patch? Well I've always flown crows and find that getting hit by bs guns with my ship doing 4400m/s is rediculous. I suppose that with a sig radius of 172meters it JUST might give someone something to shoot at. I'd appreciate a lower Signature radius, as that is all we have left when speed fails. Keep in mind modern day ships have several anti-aircraft capabilities. Missiles, Radar controlled guns etc. They deffinatley wouldnt fire 15inch guns at aircraft from the USS New Jersey. BS are weapons platforms designed for big targets. I think that a bs should surrender high slots for smaller guns to get smaller targets. The other thing is targeting range on modern fighter aircraft is well over 100km (take the 'old' phoenix for example). Why do missiles and frigs have such a short targeting range? (how many of us have 'long range targeting V' and find it doesnt really make a dif on smaller ships? Shouldnt Frigs and Inty's have the target range of a base cruiser? Oh yeah, what about torps or Harpoon missiles? sigh remembering the ol' kestrel gank squad. Tell me what you think... :) Just some food for thought. Anyhow merry christamas all..oh and if anyone out there has a working crow setup I'd really like the help.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.25 02:19:00 - [269] i think you're not getting close enough :) 500m orbit and not even cruisers will hit you with mwd! :D ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.25 02:19:00 - [270] i think you're not getting close enough :) 500m orbit and not even cruisers will hit you with mwd! :D ----- ----- -----

Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.25 04:04:00 - [271] Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:07:17 Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:04:36 I don't understand why people complain about MWD intys. They have approximately the same sig-radius and max speed as the recently nerfed dual-AB cruiser setups which people called 'uber' and 'unhittable'. Surely that makes them anything but crap? Edit: Please change the tracking bonus on the Crusader to an optimal bonus, it would be such a lovely Christmas present :D ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.25 04:04:00 - [272] Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:07:17 Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:04:36 I don't understand why people complain about MWD intys. They have approximately the same sig-radius and max speed as the recently nerfed dual-AB cruiser setups which people called 'uber' and 'unhittable'. Surely that makes them anything but crap? Edit: Please change the tracking bonus on the Crusader to an optimal bonus, it would be such a lovely Christmas present :D ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
1024	Posted - 2004.12.25 06:35:00 - [273] can't wait for this patch. :) ...
1024	Posted - 2004.12.25 06:35:00 - [274] can't wait for this patch. :) ...
Aornn	Posted - 2004.12.25 13:49:00 - [275] Warp speed multiplier confuses me, are the new speeds as 2 AU normal frigs, 3 AU for 'heavy intys' and 4.5 AU's for 'tackler' inties or are these multipliers to already existing warp speeds of 6 AU? - http://fa.s-44.net/images/banners/blue/aornn.jpg[/IMG]
Aornn	Posted - 2004.12.25 13:49:00 - [276] Warp speed multiplier confuses me, are the new speeds as 2 AU normal frigs, 3 AU for 'heavy intys' and 4.5 AU's for 'tackler' inties or are these multipliers to already existing warp speeds of 6 AU? - http://fa.s-44.net/images/banners/blue/aornn.jpg[/IMG]
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.25 14:25:00 - [277] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 25/12/2004 14:25:39 Originally by: Aornn Warp speed multiplier confuses me, are the new speeds as 2 AU normal frigs, 3 AU for 'heavy intys' and 4.5 AU's for 'tackler' inties or are these multipliers to already existing warp speeds of 6 AU? Originally by: Discorporation Base warp speed is 3 AU/sec. 2x modifier means that that 3.0 is doubled, meaning frigate warp speed is 6 AU. In the case of tackler inties, this speed will be a whopping 13.5 AU/s, allowing to intercept practically anything ._. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.25 14:25:00 - [278] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 25/12/2004 14:25:39 Originally by: Aornn Warp speed multiplier confuses me, are the new speeds as 2 AU normal frigs, 3 AU for 'heavy intys' and 4.5 AU's for 'tackler' inties or are these multipliers to already existing warp speeds of 6 AU? Originally by: Discorporation Base warp speed is 3 AU/sec. 2x modifier means that that 3.0 is doubled, meaning frigate warp speed is 6 AU. In the case of tackler inties, this speed will be a whopping 13.5 AU/s, allowing to intercept practically anything ._. /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.25 14:34:00 - [279] Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:07:17 Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:04:36 I don't understand why people complain about MWD intys. They have approximately the same sig-radius and max speed as the recently nerfed dual-AB cruiser setups which people called 'uber' and 'unhittable'. Surely that makes them anything but crap? The cruisers were quicker and tougher. Not much more firepower, mind you, and a LOT less agility... "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.12.25 14:34:00 - [280] Originally by: Julien Derida Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:07:17 Edited by: Julien Derida on 25/12/2004 04:04:36 I don't understand why people complain about MWD intys. They have approximately the same sig-radius and max speed as the recently nerfed dual-AB cruiser setups which people called 'uber' and 'unhittable'. Surely that makes them anything but crap? The cruisers were quicker and tougher. Not much more firepower, mind you, and a LOT less agility... "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"

Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.12.25 22:12:00 - [281] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 25/12/2004 22:13:29 To reiterate, I think the Raptor should get a third turret slot on top of its new hislot - giving it just another hislot creates an interceptor which can fit 2 turrets and 2 launchers. The Crow can already do this, can't it?
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.12.25 22:12:00 - [282] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 25/12/2004 22:13:29 To reiterate, I think the Raptor should get a third turret slot on top of its new hislot - giving it just another hislot creates an interceptor which can fit 2 turrets and 2 launchers. The Crow can already do this, can't it?
Zak Kingsman	Posted - 2004.12.25 23:48:00 - [283] so can the claw, but most people fit 3x1, 2x2 setup is not very good, especially if you use a damage mod.
Zak Kingsman	Posted - 2004.12.25 23:48:00 - [284] so can the claw, but most people fit 3x1, 2x2 setup is not very good, especially if you use a damage mod.
Seraph Demon	Posted - 2004.12.26 06:00:00 - [285] It would be cool if the claw got 5% missile launcher ROF bonus per level
Seraph Demon	Posted - 2004.12.26 06:00:00 - [286] It would be cool if the claw got 5% missile launcher ROF bonus per level
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.26 08:28:00 - [287] tbh, i don;t see the point of the missile rof bonus, i fly a 3 turret, 1 missile setup, and i would by far prefer extra tracking on my autocannon when iyt gets right down to it, the autocannon do the rela work, adn the rocketlaunchers is more in the nature of a bonus
Liz Bathory	Posted - 2004.12.26 08:28:00 - [288] tbh, i don;t see the point of the missile rof bonus, i fly a 3 turret, 1 missile setup, and i would by far prefer extra tracking on my autocannon when iyt gets right down to it, the autocannon do the rela work, adn the rocketlaunchers is more in the nature of a bonus
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.26 09:20:00 - [289] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 26/12/2004 09:20:24 falloff bonus on ares sux, give it missile rof or something....or maybe dm to hybrids... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.12.26 09:20:00 - [290] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 26/12/2004 09:20:24 falloff bonus on ares sux, give it missile rof or something....or maybe dm to hybrids... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"

Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.26 10:58:00 - [291] Originally by: Maya Rkell The cruisers were quicker and tougher. Not much more firepower, mind you, and a LOT less agility... They were tougher true, but the top speed on a Maller with two Lifs was around 4.5km/s. That's not much of a speed advantage over an inty going 4.2km/s, especially when the inty loses a LOT less speed when turning and can therefore orbit a lot faster. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.26 10:58:00 - [292] Originally by: Maya Rkell The cruisers were quicker and tougher. Not much more firepower, mind you, and a LOT less agility... They were tougher true, but the top speed on a Maller with two Lifs was around 4.5km/s. That's not much of a speed advantage over an inty going 4.2km/s, especially when the inty loses a LOT less speed when turning and can therefore orbit a lot faster. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.26 13:29:00 - [293] I quite like the idea of a falloff bonus on the Stiletto - With skills you should be able to get 200 auto's to hit out to around 7-8km. Stick 2 webs and a scrambler and you should be able to keep that range against short range ceptors (although you're still hosed against a Crow or a Raptor).
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.26 13:29:00 - [294] I quite like the idea of a falloff bonus on the Stiletto - With skills you should be able to get 200 auto's to hit out to around 7-8km. Stick 2 webs and a scrambler and you should be able to keep that range against short range ceptors (although you're still hosed against a Crow or a Raptor).
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.27 04:31:00 - [295] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 25/12/2004 22:13:29 To reiterate, I think the Raptor should get a third turret slot on top of its new hislot - giving it just another hislot creates an interceptor which can fit 2 turrets and 2 launchers. The Crow can already do this, can't it? Would be nice, and it wouldn't be unbalancing at all since the raptor is freaking slow and has poor powergrid.
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.27 04:31:00 - [296] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 25/12/2004 22:13:29 To reiterate, I think the Raptor should get a third turret slot on top of its new hislot - giving it just another hislot creates an interceptor which can fit 2 turrets and 2 launchers. The Crow can already do this, can't it? Would be nice, and it wouldn't be unbalancing at all since the raptor is freaking slow and has poor powergrid.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.12.27 09:13:00 - [297] Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/12/2004 09:14:48 You may want to give the raptor +1 mid or low slot instead of a high slot if it's not supposed to be that much of a damage dealer. I like the missile speed bonus on the crow, much needed against frigs.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.12.27 09:13:00 - [298] Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/12/2004 09:14:48 You may want to give the raptor +1 mid or low slot instead of a high slot if it's not supposed to be that much of a damage dealer. I like the missile speed bonus on the crow, much needed against frigs.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.12.27 09:40:00 - [299] Edited by: Hakera on 27/12/2004 09:53:11 I have been pouring over ceptor stats and noticed something weird. The minnie ships are usually the lightest and fastest across the ship classes, however for ceptors, the claw & stiletto have the highest mass and also only the 1st and 4th highest base speed respectively. Minnie ship stats Is this a little odd? should the minnie ships not at least be the lightest? edit: I checked the other frigate classes like assualts and covert ops and in all, the minnie ships are the lightest and the fastest. Suggestied Fix: lower stiletto mass to 1,000,000 kg lower claw mass to 1,025,000 kg Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.12.27 09:40:00 - [300] Edited by: Hakera on 27/12/2004 09:53:11 I have been pouring over ceptor stats and noticed something weird. The minnie ships are usually the lightest and fastest across the ship classes, however for ceptors, the claw & stiletto have the highest mass and also only the 1st and 4th highest base speed respectively. Minnie ship stats Is this a little odd? should the minnie ships not at least be the lightest? edit: I checked the other frigate classes like assualts and covert ops and in all, the minnie ships are the lightest and the fastest. Suggestied Fix: lower stiletto mass to 1,000,000 kg lower claw mass to 1,025,000 kg Dumbledore - Eve-I.com

Ordo Abchao	Posted - 2004.12.27 10:50:00 - [301] Don't know if this has been said before, but boosting inties isn't needed, they are already better than assault frigates for damage dealing (ironic no?). Only thing that's holding back inties and assault frigates right now are missiles, with thier uberness, there's almost no point risking your ship since you know you'll get blown up. On the lines of warping speed, why the nerf to speed? Now inties will be going as fast as indies through warp. Unless you mean they are getting thier warp speed multiplied, at which point that would be pretty leet. Order out of Chaos
Ordo Abchao	Posted - 2004.12.27 10:50:00 - [302] Don't know if this has been said before, but boosting inties isn't needed, they are already better than assault frigates for damage dealing (ironic no?). Only thing that's holding back inties and assault frigates right now are missiles, with thier uberness, there's almost no point risking your ship since you know you'll get blown up. On the lines of warping speed, why the nerf to speed? Now inties will be going as fast as indies through warp. Unless you mean they are getting thier warp speed multiplied, at which point that would be pretty leet. Order out of Chaos
Hakera	Posted - 2004.12.27 11:01:00 - [303] Originally by: Ordo Abchao Don't know if this has been said before, but boosting inties isn't needed, they are already better than assault frigates for damage dealing (ironic no?). Only thing that's holding back inties and assault frigates right now are missiles, with thier uberness, there's almost no point risking your ship since you know you'll get blown up. i agree and said as much in my first reply. The sig radius bonus already makes ceptors uber. Assualt frigs should be dmg dealers, not ceptors, but very few agree. Quote: On the lines of warping speed, why the nerf to speed? Now inties will be going as fast as indies through warp. Unless you mean they are getting thier warp speed multiplied, at which point that would be pretty leet. it is a boost, ceptors currently have a 2speed multiplier, so that is 6au warp speed, at 3.2 = 9.6au speed Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.12.27 11:01:00 - [304] Originally by: Ordo Abchao Don't know if this has been said before, but boosting inties isn't needed, they are already better than assault frigates for damage dealing (ironic no?). Only thing that's holding back inties and assault frigates right now are missiles, with thier uberness, there's almost no point risking your ship since you know you'll get blown up. i agree and said as much in my first reply. The sig radius bonus already makes ceptors uber. Assualt frigs should be dmg dealers, not ceptors, but very few agree. Quote: On the lines of warping speed, why the nerf to speed? Now inties will be going as fast as indies through warp. Unless you mean they are getting thier warp speed multiplied, at which point that would be pretty leet. it is a boost, ceptors currently have a 2speed multiplier, so that is 6au warp speed, at 3.2 = 9.6au speed Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.12.27 13:52:00 - [305] Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/12/2004 14:05:00 Originally by: Ordo Abchao Don't know if this has been said before, but boosting inties isn't needed, they are already better than assault frigates for damage dealing (ironic no?). Only thing that's holding back inties and assault frigates right now are missiles, with thier uberness, there's almost no point risking your ship since you know you'll get blown up. Actually they are probably boosting them because ppl leave the skill at lvl 1 or something since they get a big sig radius penalty with the mwd anyway and therefore don't see much point in training it higher. A reduced sig radius penalty when using mwd would probably be enough to add as a 2nd bonus to make ppl train it though, and would also be more "interceptorish". Or maybe a speed bonus to mwd/ab as a 2nd interceptor skill bonus? Or what's already mentioned a couple of times : Increased range on webbers and scramblers (and disruptors), that'd definitely get the training started I think. Boosting the weapons don't really make that much sense on interceptors, at least as far as I've understood their role.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.12.27 13:52:00 - [306] Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/12/2004 14:05:00 Originally by: Ordo Abchao Don't know if this has been said before, but boosting inties isn't needed, they are already better than assault frigates for damage dealing (ironic no?). Only thing that's holding back inties and assault frigates right now are missiles, with thier uberness, there's almost no point risking your ship since you know you'll get blown up. Actually they are probably boosting them because ppl leave the skill at lvl 1 or something since they get a big sig radius penalty with the mwd anyway and therefore don't see much point in training it higher. A reduced sig radius penalty when using mwd would probably be enough to add as a 2nd bonus to make ppl train it though, and would also be more "interceptorish". Or maybe a speed bonus to mwd/ab as a 2nd interceptor skill bonus? Or what's already mentioned a couple of times : Increased range on webbers and scramblers (and disruptors), that'd definitely get the training started I think. Boosting the weapons don't really make that much sense on interceptors, at least as far as I've understood their role.
Issle	Posted - 2004.12.27 15:58:00 - [307] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 25/12/2004 14:25:39 Originally by: Aornn Warp speed multiplier confuses me, are the new speeds as 2 AU normal frigs, 3 AU for 'heavy intys' and 4.5 AU's for 'tackler' inties or are these multipliers to already existing warp speeds of 6 AU? Originally by: Discorporation Base warp speed is 3 AU/sec. 2x modifier means that that 3.0 is doubled, meaning frigate warp speed is 6 AU. In the case of tackler inties, this speed will be a whopping 13.5 AU/s, allowing to intercept practically anything ._. Allow me to share in the original inquirers confusion: The base warp is is not 3 AU/sec on interceptors - or if it is, none that I've owned (both models of Gallente & Amarr) - the base warp on them has been 6au/sec. Cutting that in half and giving us a "bonus" really isn't a bonus. On the other hand, if the interceptors are getting the bonus multiplier to their 6au speed.. well then.. color me pink and call me Nafri, because at that speed, you'll need new panties. Long-warp systems (150-200au) is where flying the tackle inty will seriously pay off.
Issle	Posted - 2004.12.27 15:58:00 - [308] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 25/12/2004 14:25:39 Originally by: Aornn Warp speed multiplier confuses me, are the new speeds as 2 AU normal frigs, 3 AU for 'heavy intys' and 4.5 AU's for 'tackler' inties or are these multipliers to already existing warp speeds of 6 AU? Originally by: Discorporation Base warp speed is 3 AU/sec. 2x modifier means that that 3.0 is doubled, meaning frigate warp speed is 6 AU. In the case of tackler inties, this speed will be a whopping 13.5 AU/s, allowing to intercept practically anything ._. Allow me to share in the original inquirers confusion: The base warp is is not 3 AU/sec on interceptors - or if it is, none that I've owned (both models of Gallente & Amarr) - the base warp on them has been 6au/sec. Cutting that in half and giving us a "bonus" really isn't a bonus. On the other hand, if the interceptors are getting the bonus multiplier to their 6au speed.. well then.. color me pink and call me Nafri, because at that speed, you'll need new panties. Long-warp systems (150-200au) is where flying the tackle inty will seriously pay off.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.27 16:29:00 - [309] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 27/12/2004 16:31:44 You fail to see the point. ALL ships have a base warp speed of 3 AU. They also come with a multiplier. Interceptor had their multiplier boosted. The multiplier was 2, it is now respectively 3 and 4.5. Interceptors now warp faster. frigates = 2 * 3.0 = 6 AU/sec Intis = 3 * 3.0 = 9 AU/sec Tacklers = 4.5 * 3.0 = 13.5 AU/sec /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2004.12.27 16:29:00 - [310] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 27/12/2004 16:31:44 You fail to see the point. ALL ships have a base warp speed of 3 AU. They also come with a multiplier. Interceptor had their multiplier boosted. The multiplier was 2, it is now respectively 3 and 4.5. Interceptors now warp faster. frigates = 2 * 3.0 = 6 AU/sec Intis = 3 * 3.0 = 9 AU/sec Tacklers = 4.5 * 3.0 = 13.5 AU/sec /Elve New Video out! Watch me!

Issle	Posted - 2004.12.27 16:43:00 - [311] Ah, yes indeed, if that is the case. That makes much more sense. Has anyone proposed an MWD bonus (passive) that would increase the warp multiplier on ships by .5-1.5? :)
Issle	Posted - 2004.12.27 16:43:00 - [312] Ah, yes indeed, if that is the case. That makes much more sense. Has anyone proposed an MWD bonus (passive) that would increase the warp multiplier on ships by .5-1.5? :)
Emnos	Posted - 2004.12.27 19:39:00 - [313] Hi. I didn't read the whole thread only the first 2 pages and i have a small issue with the Tarranis. The 25% bonuses Taranis get are for Gallente race only or gallente frig skill? Because if someone else (Caldari) has spec on Gallente elite frigates is the only one cannot get any benefit from. This will be changed or not? Emnos.
Emnos	Posted - 2004.12.27 19:39:00 - [314] Hi. I didn't read the whole thread only the first 2 pages and i have a small issue with the Tarranis. The 25% bonuses Taranis get are for Gallente race only or gallente frig skill? Because if someone else (Caldari) has spec on Gallente elite frigates is the only one cannot get any benefit from. This will be changed or not? Emnos.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.27 20:29:00 - [315] it's for the frig skill being at 5. it never has been a race thing, just bad wording by ccp. ----- ----- -----
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2004.12.27 20:29:00 - [316] it's for the frig skill being at 5. it never has been a race thing, just bad wording by ccp. ----- ----- -----
Arte	Posted - 2004.12.27 20:56:00 - [317] I think all variants could do with a base speed increase of say 50-100m/s. This would compensate for the mwd sig penalty and be in line with the warp speed increase. Little would change for BS's defending themselves (nos then cruise or web then drones, or whatever). I only suggest this because with the specialist anti-frigate platforms out there now, this would give the interceptors another shot in the arm over standard frigates for tackling, and help them remain the elite frigates they are. Even if this was only directed at the "ideal for tackling" variants, as opposed to the "damage dealing" variants. As for the slot/bonus changes. Already love the ares, can't wait for the extra slot, but why fall-off bonus, why not optimal range bonus. Or is that just playing with numbers?
Arte	Posted - 2004.12.27 20:56:00 - [318] I think all variants could do with a base speed increase of say 50-100m/s. This would compensate for the mwd sig penalty and be in line with the warp speed increase. Little would change for BS's defending themselves (nos then cruise or web then drones, or whatever). I only suggest this because with the specialist anti-frigate platforms out there now, this would give the interceptors another shot in the arm over standard frigates for tackling, and help them remain the elite frigates they are. Even if this was only directed at the "ideal for tackling" variants, as opposed to the "damage dealing" variants. As for the slot/bonus changes. Already love the ares, can't wait for the extra slot, but why fall-off bonus, why not optimal range bonus. Or is that just playing with numbers?
Meridius	Posted - 2004.12.28 02:48:00 - [319] Lasers do not require more tracking 5% more optimal would be optimal. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.12.28 02:48:00 - [320] Lasers do not require more tracking 5% more optimal would be optimal. ________________________________________________________

ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2004.12.28 10:20:00 - [321] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 28/12/2004 10:21:49 As someone who flies both Assault Ships and Interceptors, I do feel obligated that with these buffs, it becomes even more apparent that Assault Ships need more in terms of firepower pretty badly. I can outdamage my Hawk easily in a Crow. I'm not going to rip on Interceptors for being the damage dealers but it is rather pitiful what Assault ships put out in terms of firepower. They have nice resistances, but the lack of sig radius bonuses and slower base speed means they are much more vulnerable to actually taking fire than an Interceptor. Sure, Assault Ships can take the beating, but with the inability to deal significant amounts of damage, they can only last so long. So, Interceptors have their place as Tech 2 frigates that use speed as their defense, while Assault Ships are Tech 2 Frigates that use Resistances as their defense. I have no problem with that. What bugs me is that the Assault Ships don't do much in the way of "Assaulting". Either give Assault Ships more high slots or better damage mods so that they can actually perform in their proper role.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2004.12.28 10:20:00 - [322] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 28/12/2004 10:21:49 As someone who flies both Assault Ships and Interceptors, I do feel obligated that with these buffs, it becomes even more apparent that Assault Ships need more in terms of firepower pretty badly. I can outdamage my Hawk easily in a Crow. I'm not going to rip on Interceptors for being the damage dealers but it is rather pitiful what Assault ships put out in terms of firepower. They have nice resistances, but the lack of sig radius bonuses and slower base speed means they are much more vulnerable to actually taking fire than an Interceptor. Sure, Assault Ships can take the beating, but with the inability to deal significant amounts of damage, they can only last so long. So, Interceptors have their place as Tech 2 frigates that use speed as their defense, while Assault Ships are Tech 2 Frigates that use Resistances as their defense. I have no problem with that. What bugs me is that the Assault Ships don't do much in the way of "Assaulting". Either give Assault Ships more high slots or better damage mods so that they can actually perform in their proper role.
Odyssia	Posted - 2004.12.28 10:26:00 - [323] From the point of view of a non-PvP player, cool changes. Pity to lose the ROF bonus but won't make much difference in the long run. Besides, doesn't change the fact that the Malediction is still the best looking ship in the game :) Odyssia
Odyssia	Posted - 2004.12.28 10:26:00 - [324] From the point of view of a non-PvP player, cool changes. Pity to lose the ROF bonus but won't make much difference in the long run. Besides, doesn't change the fact that the Malediction is still the best looking ship in the game :) Odyssia
ubikar	Posted - 2004.12.28 11:13:00 - [325] Those changes are nice, but I agree with ELECTR0: assault should have some tweaking with those new inty bonuses.
ubikar	Posted - 2004.12.28 11:13:00 - [326] Those changes are nice, but I agree with ELECTR0: assault should have some tweaking with those new inty bonuses.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2004.12.28 12:25:00 - [327] Originally by: ubikar Those changes are nice, but I agree with ELECTR0: assault should have some tweaking with those new inty bonuses. I hate to say this but... my Enyo slices through lvl3 missions like a hot knife through butter. I have a feeling that boosting assaults would make it overpowered. It's fine as is.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2004.12.28 12:25:00 - [328] Originally by: ubikar Those changes are nice, but I agree with ELECTR0: assault should have some tweaking with those new inty bonuses. I hate to say this but... my Enyo slices through lvl3 missions like a hot knife through butter. I have a feeling that boosting assaults would make it overpowered. It's fine as is.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.28 12:33:00 - [329] Assaults will still easily be able to kill an interceptor 1v1, so I really don't see what the problem is. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.28 12:33:00 - [330] Assaults will still easily be able to kill an interceptor 1v1, so I really don't see what the problem is. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK

4 LOM	Posted - 2004.12.28 14:51:00 - [331] have not read all the posts there are alot... first i love the changes listed, other then a nice change would to also give the raptor some more speed, its the slowest of the interceptors so to fit with the others more speed is necissary i think... second, the assaults are fine, as frig's they wtf pwn, dont touch my harpy or hawk leave them alone i like them how they are
4 LOM	Posted - 2004.12.28 14:51:00 - [332] have not read all the posts there are alot... first i love the changes listed, other then a nice change would to also give the raptor some more speed, its the slowest of the interceptors so to fit with the others more speed is necissary i think... second, the assaults are fine, as frig's they wtf pwn, dont touch my harpy or hawk leave them alone i like them how they are
Meridius	Posted - 2004.12.28 16:44:00 - [333] Just incase some of you don't know. Interceptors are meant to outdamage assault frigates. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.12.28 16:44:00 - [334] Just incase some of you don't know. Interceptors are meant to outdamage assault frigates. ________________________________________________________
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:06:00 - [335] Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:09:18 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:07:09 Originally by: Meridius Just incase some of you don't know. Interceptors are meant to outdamage assault frigates. They are ??? so whats the point of flying an Ass Frig?? I always thought an Inties job was to get infast , lock the target down, web, scram and then hold till big guns arrived to sort it out, once big guys arrived the inty should leave. Where does the slower ass frig fit into this then if its weaker than an inty? PS love the Malediction changes, i`ll be leaving the Crusader in the hanger once these come into game. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:06:00 - [336] Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:09:18 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:07:09 Originally by: Meridius Just incase some of you don't know. Interceptors are meant to outdamage assault frigates. They are ??? so whats the point of flying an Ass Frig?? I always thought an Inties job was to get infast , lock the target down, web, scram and then hold till big guns arrived to sort it out, once big guys arrived the inty should leave. Where does the slower ass frig fit into this then if its weaker than an inty? PS love the Malediction changes, i`ll be leaving the Crusader in the hanger once these come into game. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:15:00 - [337] Originally by: Cadman Weyland Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:09:18 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:07:09 Originally by: Meridius Just incase some of you don't know. Interceptors are meant to outdamage assault frigates. They are ??? so whats the point of flying an Ass Frig?? I always thought an Inties job was to get infast , lock the target down, web, scram and then hold till big guns arrived to sort it out, once big guys arrived the inty should leave. Where does the slower ass frig fit into this then if its weaker than an inty? PS love the Malediction changes, i`ll be leaving the Crusader in the hanger once these come into game. I believe AF's were originally going to be called Escort Frigates, which I think is a better description. What the game now needs is Bombers, which will give interceptors a new role...
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:15:00 - [338] Originally by: Cadman Weyland Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:09:18 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 28/12/2004 17:07:09 Originally by: Meridius Just incase some of you don't know. Interceptors are meant to outdamage assault frigates. They are ??? so whats the point of flying an Ass Frig?? I always thought an Inties job was to get infast , lock the target down, web, scram and then hold till big guns arrived to sort it out, once big guys arrived the inty should leave. Where does the slower ass frig fit into this then if its weaker than an inty? PS love the Malediction changes, i`ll be leaving the Crusader in the hanger once these come into game. I believe AF's were originally going to be called Escort Frigates, which I think is a better description. What the game now needs is Bombers, which will give interceptors a new role...
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:50:00 - [339] Meridius is right. The Assault frigs bonuses clearly imply that they are meant to outrange and out-tank interceptors and normal frigs, not out-damage them. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Julien Derida	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:50:00 - [340] Meridius is right. The Assault frigs bonuses clearly imply that they are meant to outrange and out-tank interceptors and normal frigs, not out-damage them. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK

Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:53:00 - [341] "I believe AF's were originally going to be called Escort Frigates, which I think is a better description. What the game now needs is Bombers, which will give interceptors a new role..." Id heard that b4. I think they decided to bring in Destroyers to handle escort duties and wondered where to go with the T2 frigs. Maybe Ass frigs were a mistake tbh...hopefully Bombers will be awesome. Thinks of slow but wellarmoured frigs dropping off short range Torps Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.12.28 17:53:00 - [342] "I believe AF's were originally going to be called Escort Frigates, which I think is a better description. What the game now needs is Bombers, which will give interceptors a new role..." Id heard that b4. I think they decided to bring in Destroyers to handle escort duties and wondered where to go with the T2 frigs. Maybe Ass frigs were a mistake tbh...hopefully Bombers will be awesome. Thinks of slow but wellarmoured frigs dropping off short range Torps Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.28 19:15:00 - [343] Please change tracking bonus on Crusader to optimal range bonus
Selim	Posted - 2004.12.28 19:15:00 - [344] Please change tracking bonus on Crusader to optimal range bonus
Meridius	Posted - 2004.12.28 20:32:00 - [345] Edited by: Meridius on 28/12/2004 20:32:53 Originally by: Cadman Weyland They are ??? so whats the point of flying an Ass Frig?? I always thought an Inties job was to get infast , lock the target down, web, scram and then hold till big guns arrived to sort it out, once big guys arrived the inty should leave. Where does the slower ass frig fit into this then if its weaker than an inty? It would be nice if assault frigates could compare to normal frigates relative to how assault cruisers compare to normal cruisers. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2004.12.28 20:32:00 - [346] Edited by: Meridius on 28/12/2004 20:32:53 Originally by: Cadman Weyland They are ??? so whats the point of flying an Ass Frig?? I always thought an Inties job was to get infast , lock the target down, web, scram and then hold till big guns arrived to sort it out, once big guys arrived the inty should leave. Where does the slower ass frig fit into this then if its weaker than an inty? It would be nice if assault frigates could compare to normal frigates relative to how assault cruisers compare to normal cruisers. ________________________________________________________
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.12.28 23:39:00 - [347] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 28/12/2004 20:32:53 It would be nice if assault frigates could compare to normal frigates relative to how assault cruisers compare to normal cruisers. Hmmm i`ll go order a lot of Brown trousers Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.12.28 23:39:00 - [348] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 28/12/2004 20:32:53 It would be nice if assault frigates could compare to normal frigates relative to how assault cruisers compare to normal cruisers. Hmmm i`ll go order a lot of Brown trousers Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Slayer Ceetesh	Posted - 2004.12.29 09:18:00 - [349] How about an Agility bonus to Interceptors or a faster targeting lock rather than damage bonus's http://www.freewebs.com/cfs-navy
Slayer Ceetesh	Posted - 2004.12.29 09:18:00 - [350] How about an Agility bonus to Interceptors or a faster targeting lock rather than damage bonus's http://www.freewebs.com/cfs-navy

Nova Strikes	Posted - 2004.12.29 10:51:00 - [351] I just got it, with the new warp speeds 13whatever AU a frig warping to a planet will be mighty Surprise to c the Inty waiting for them hehehe rules, Nova enters the Inty domain
Nova Strikes	Posted - 2004.12.29 10:51:00 - [352] I just got it, with the new warp speeds 13whatever AU a frig warping to a planet will be mighty Surprise to c the Inty waiting for them hehehe rules, Nova enters the Inty domain
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.12.29 12:56:00 - [353] Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/12/2004 12:58:43 Originally by: Leyla Anshley it'll be cool if inty's sig radius will not be nerfed with mwd's.... inty's real advantage is sig raduis descreasing bonus... but mwd makes it to zero. If you removed or even decreased a lot the sig penalty, it would be "Untouchables Crows" all over again, only this time with all interceptors. If I gimp my BS by fitting small lasers (which have the best tracking), I expect them to hit something, or I might as well not put them. And the interceptor bonus make you significantly harder to hit than a normal frig, I wonder how you can think otherwise. Overall the boost of the lesser interceptors, and the secondary bonus seem good, but I'm rather concerned about assault frigs: For a lot of them, the only way to kill interceptors is to hit them fast and dirty, because they can't pursue them, can't outrun them in warp, and most assault frigs simply don't have the alaivables middle slots to web/scramble them. So the future HP changes, and warp speed changes, will make it considerably harder for an Assault frig to act as more than a ScareCrow. It's already pointed out by others, but I tought another layer was necessary
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.12.29 12:56:00 - [354] Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/12/2004 12:58:43 Originally by: Leyla Anshley it'll be cool if inty's sig radius will not be nerfed with mwd's.... inty's real advantage is sig raduis descreasing bonus... but mwd makes it to zero. If you removed or even decreased a lot the sig penalty, it would be "Untouchables Crows" all over again, only this time with all interceptors. If I gimp my BS by fitting small lasers (which have the best tracking), I expect them to hit something, or I might as well not put them. And the interceptor bonus make you significantly harder to hit than a normal frig, I wonder how you can think otherwise. Overall the boost of the lesser interceptors, and the secondary bonus seem good, but I'm rather concerned about assault frigs: For a lot of them, the only way to kill interceptors is to hit them fast and dirty, because they can't pursue them, can't outrun them in warp, and most assault frigs simply don't have the alaivables middle slots to web/scramble them. So the future HP changes, and warp speed changes, will make it considerably harder for an Assault frig to act as more than a ScareCrow. It's already pointed out by others, but I tought another layer was necessary
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.12.30 09:13:00 - [355] i took the month to train interceptors, added 2 weeks to train assualt frigates, then spent a month getting cruiser 5, theres just one problem, when will ints be back to around 7-10mil and affordable for combat, when will assualts drop to 15mil, and when will heavy assualt cruisers drop to 55mil, because lets be honest the current teactor prices and other t2 components are insane and making these ships a waste of skillpoints unless you mine 3 days a week __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.12.30 09:13:00 - [356] i took the month to train interceptors, added 2 weeks to train assualt frigates, then spent a month getting cruiser 5, theres just one problem, when will ints be back to around 7-10mil and affordable for combat, when will assualts drop to 15mil, and when will heavy assualt cruisers drop to 55mil, because lets be honest the current teactor prices and other t2 components are insane and making these ships a waste of skillpoints unless you mine 3 days a week __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.12.30 12:23:00 - [357] ares = better missiles not turrets pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
fairimear	Posted - 2004.12.30 12:23:00 - [358] ares = better missiles not turrets pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
Deacan Wildfire	Posted - 2004.12.30 17:01:00 - [359] this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc
Deacan Wildfire	Posted - 2004.12.30 17:01:00 - [360] this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc

Ithildin	Posted - 2004.12.31 00:34:00 - [361] Originally by: Deacan Wildfire this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc Yes, listen to this man! Only Inty this kind of bonus does not fit on is the Crusader (fast damage dealer and not very tackly at all... more of a high-speed bullet than a door stop) Also, Assault Frigates should loose the resistance bonus and have it as the Heavy Assaults (already imbeded into the stats). Instead some turret or similar bonuses can then fit in on the Assaults. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Ithildin	Posted - 2004.12.31 00:34:00 - [362] Originally by: Deacan Wildfire this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc Yes, listen to this man! Only Inty this kind of bonus does not fit on is the Crusader (fast damage dealer and not very tackly at all... more of a high-speed bullet than a door stop) Also, Assault Frigates should loose the resistance bonus and have it as the Heavy Assaults (already imbeded into the stats). Instead some turret or similar bonuses can then fit in on the Assaults. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.31 00:48:00 - [363] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Deacan Wildfire this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc Yes, listen to this man! Only Inty this kind of bonus does not fit on is the Crusader (fast damage dealer and not very tackly at all... more of a high-speed bullet than a door stop) And the Claw...
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2004.12.31 00:48:00 - [364] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Deacan Wildfire this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc Yes, listen to this man! Only Inty this kind of bonus does not fit on is the Crusader (fast damage dealer and not very tackly at all... more of a high-speed bullet than a door stop) And the Claw...
Spungwa	Posted - 2004.12.31 11:07:00 - [365] on the stiletto is the missile slot another slot making it 4 highs or does it remain at just 3? i use mine to solo hunt using race jammers and the only thing i have problems with is FOF missiles, the missile slot will take care of those with a rocket launcher making the ship practically invincable 1v1. altho if it is at the expence of fitting a nos then a cap bonus would be badly needed, as to run all the ew then there will only be 1 gun left (after nos). pleased to see the tracking bonus on the claw as that is my ship of choice and at close range that and the damage increase will go some way to make up for the ROF nerf. since messing about with oversized ABs the sig radius advantage with inties has proved pointless and taken cirtain drone carrying targets away which is a shame. people do moan that these ships are too good, but it takes a lot of training to get them, and to be good in them, and seeing as the insurance is so F**king tight on them i think they should be uber. please let the sig radius shrink to what it was with AB with a MWD fitted, even if i do completely gimp my lo slots to fit one, they dont accelerate enough to be of much use anymore anyway, by the time you get to scrambling range the target has painted a picture of you and gone to the printers with it. "Retarded Trophy Hunter With a Blackend Soul" Thank you for that......
Spungwa	Posted - 2004.12.31 11:07:00 - [366] on the stiletto is the missile slot another slot making it 4 highs or does it remain at just 3? i use mine to solo hunt using race jammers and the only thing i have problems with is FOF missiles, the missile slot will take care of those with a rocket launcher making the ship practically invincable 1v1. altho if it is at the expence of fitting a nos then a cap bonus would be badly needed, as to run all the ew then there will only be 1 gun left (after nos). pleased to see the tracking bonus on the claw as that is my ship of choice and at close range that and the damage increase will go some way to make up for the ROF nerf. since messing about with oversized ABs the sig radius advantage with inties has proved pointless and taken cirtain drone carrying targets away which is a shame. people do moan that these ships are too good, but it takes a lot of training to get them, and to be good in them, and seeing as the insurance is so F**king tight on them i think they should be uber. please let the sig radius shrink to what it was with AB with a MWD fitted, even if i do completely gimp my lo slots to fit one, they dont accelerate enough to be of much use anymore anyway, by the time you get to scrambling range the target has painted a picture of you and gone to the printers with it. "Retarded Trophy Hunter With a Blackend Soul" Thank you for that......
zaltock	Posted - 2005.01.01 12:18:00 - [367] ok justa thought here dont give tacklers extra high slots give them all 2 extra mid slots so they can do the job they was designed to do a bonus to web or warp scramble of some kind will feel good as for assault frigs cmon man help them out i feel like im setting fire to money and throwing it at ppl either drop there costs dramatically or for 20mill isk plus give them the ability to fit med guns <----- yes you heard me then they will def be assaults :)
Parmenides Elea	Posted - 2005.01.01 13:48:00 - [368] Edited by: Parmenides Elea on 01/01/2005 13:50:52 As i can tell, mimatar ceptors are getting a beating again. Sure they got improved but they fall behind on the other ceptors. Improve their strong point (=speed) by reducing their mass. Although a claw has the highest base speed, a malediction has higher mwd speed. This shouldn't be the case. Amarr faster then mimatar, bah. To Daimoto Kurashi
Aequitas Veritas	Posted - 2005.01.01 16:11:00 - [369] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Deacan Wildfire this may have been said already, but surely the best interceptor skill bonuses for the tacklers would be +web range, +scramble range, +base speed etc Yes, listen to this man! Only Inty this kind of bonus does not fit on is the Crusader (fast damage dealer and not very tackly at all... more of a high-speed bullet than a door stop) Also, Assault Frigates should loose the resistance bonus and have it as the Heavy Assaults (already imbeded into the stats). Instead some turret or similar bonuses can then fit in on the Assaults. Agreed - This will increase the difference between the ships and help giving them more dedicated roles in combat. Thumbs up for specialization
spikie1	Posted - 2005.01.02 22:46:00 - [370] would be nice to see covert ops ships maybe use ship and cargo scan modules and would be great if cloaks could be applyed to ships at gate without moving and auto targeters getting you before cloak has come on :) just like they used to be

diablo	Posted - 2005.01.03 11:43:00 - [371] Originally by: Viceroy Imo giving interceptors more damage abilities isnt a good idea. Assault frigs should be the dangerous ones damage wise. Interceptors are tacklers, thus their bonuses should be for tacking (Better sig radius, longer warp scramble duration etc), not damage abilities. Yeah i totally agree, some ceptors if u dont use warp bubbles and the user has Instajumps are practically impossible to get, even with instalock. I used nearly everyship to try get them and none get near, If you do get an fleet tpgether to get them they just Log hehe. The assault should have nearly same attribs but lots more damage ie same warp speeds etc Give the assaults the bonus or destroyers, Bah Humbug
Bedrock	Posted - 2005.01.03 19:35:00 - [372] I agree with a lot of these posts. INterceptors are for tackling mainly. Increasing damage or Hi-Slots is not necessary. If anything, you should be increasing the MED-Slots and bonuses of warp/scramble range. Good ideas indeed. danny~! ---------------------------------------------- [apparent-dreams.com]
Arleonenis	Posted - 2005.01.04 12:09:00 - [373] some of my thoughts -more firepower on interceptors = bad idea, instead they should be fitted to better do they job (tackling, killing frigates and bombers), for this they need even further speed increase (slightly maybe 25%?) new bonuses should be for warp scrambling, webing range, maybe like 10% per interceptor lvl, more MED slots, and slightly higher signature radius, assaults and destroyers should be able to hit it -assaults from the other side should have resistances already in stats and this free now bonus added for additional dmg or range bonus, imho they speed should be decreased, in role play point its becouse they are so massivly armored, so many stuff, powerfull shield generators, computers, weapons inside that even upgraded frigate propulusion dont work well with them and size dont alow bigger engines, they are meant for assaults (intense combat), they should stick to assault cruisers/battlecruisers/battleships and protect them from tackling plus add fiepower when bs deal with nearby cruiser (sometimes bs have only drones for this task)
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.01.04 19:04:00 - [374] Signature radius affects the time it takes to lock your ship, and the ability of other's turrets to track your ship. It does NOT affect your locking time. 1. MWD makes you easier to hit when its first activated and you have not reached speed yet. 2. MWD does not make you significantly easier to hit once you reach speed. (unless your speed is not transverse) 3. When MWD turns off and you are still moving fast, you are harder to hit which balances #1. 4. MWD keeps you away from missiles, not guns. AB (and overdrives, etc.) keeps you away from guns not missiles. MWD penalty does not negate the speed of interceptors, it just does not allow them to be impossible to hit with guns, like an AB would. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Nybbas	Posted - 2005.01.05 10:03:00 - [375] Edited by: Nybbas on 05/01/2005 10:03:39 <--- dumbass ....
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.05 13:25:00 - [376] hrr hrr n00bbas ----- ----- -----
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.01.05 13:55:00 - [377] Wow, these changes will make it worthwhile training the interceptor skill to level 5 Death to the Galante
UndergrounD	Posted - 2005.01.05 18:52:00 - [378] I like the proposed changes, coupled withthe proposed HP increase it should make combat last longer than a 10 seconf wtpwn session. Some people will moan but ceptor pilots did get a real kicking with the mwd signature radius changes, anyway thats just a comment. I like the proposed changes! -----------------------------------------------
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.06 04:12:00 - [379] ..unless you fly a claw, when your low cap just shafts you with these changes. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.06 10:49:00 - [380] Edited by: Meridius on 06/01/2005 10:49:30 Originally by: Maya Rkell ..unless you fly a claw, when your low cap just shafts you with these changes. Quite the same for crusader setups that involve a 15km orbit + disruptor. More HP = More disruptor use, it's tight as it is. I've had some great 1 on 1's vs cruisers leaving me with zero cap and little structure after arduous battles... I guess all that will die after this ________________________________________________________

Muad 'dib	Posted - 2005.01.06 16:07:00 - [381] Edited by: Muad 'dib on 06/01/2005 16:08:05 Originally by: TomB These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are. Heres a crazy thought, how bout having intercepters that intercept? We have ships basied around frigs focused on destroying, and there called, erm Destroyers. The higher dmg cepters in some cases cant actully intercept at all (minimum of three mid slots, MWD scram web), make all the cepters have three mid slots and reduce the dmg output. I dont want to even get into how much the taranis out damages some other races assult frigs!, ehm 10+ vs 20+ mil ehm, ooo wow better resists :/ dmg output to back it up or perhaps ballence assults AND cepters. . . . My thoughts anyhow, Keep up the good work devs, threads like this let us know you actully work for your *isk occasionally. (j/k ) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- /\|\. '/\' The Wild West Made Me Quicker On The DRAW Than You
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.06 17:52:00 - [382] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 06/01/2005 17:53:26 "Interceptors" role in the present day is to DESTROY. It's what they do. To make them tackle is the assumption here. Try taking a interceptor against an assualt frig. Say a Harpy or Enyo. It ain't pretty for you. And destroyers are T1. They're also crap against my inty setup, but that's pretty much unfixable without making em uber :) "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.06 22:56:00 - [383] Originally by: Maya Rkell Try taking a interceptor against an assualt frig. Say a Harpy or Enyo. It ain't pretty for you. I've killed a harpy 1 on 1 in a crusader. He had an em hardner, small sb II, a rack of 125mm's, normal stuff. No basic power diags... Say what you will, i've never felt an extreme danger from assault frigs, if i'm losing the fight i warp out. No harm in trying right? I still think assault frigs suck, especially the retribution with it's 1 midslot uberness. ________________________________________________________
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.07 04:50:00 - [384] A WELL set up Harpy is nasty. We swarmed some of fountain's with a dozen mixed inties and frigs, and lost a frig each time despite the fact we had them massively outnumbered. They're easy to set up badly, yes. But try going 1v1 with a deacent Enyo or Harpy (the ships I have experience with) and your head will be handed to you. Also, bear in mind that Assualt Frigs have some VERY VERY sweet PvE uses. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.07 05:51:00 - [385] Originally by: Maya Rkell A WELL set up Harpy is nasty. We swarmed some of fountain's with a dozen mixed inties and frigs, and lost a frig each time despite the fact we had them massively outnumbered. They're easy to set up badly, yes. But try going 1v1 with a deacent Enyo or Harpy (the ships I have experience with) and your head will be handed to you. Also, bear in mind that Assualt Frigs have some VERY VERY sweet PvE uses. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i can take out any af pilot. I just find it wrong that i can tease AF pilots at will without being in serious danger. Considering the limited role the assault frigate, i think they should be able to obliterate interceptors. Look at cruisers compared to assault cruisers, look at ALL the stats. Now look at normal frigates and assault frigates, once again, check all the stats. You will see that assault cruisers are faster, stronger, and superior to normal cruisers in just about every way. The same cannot be said about assault frigates. ________________________________________________________
MrRookie	Posted - 2005.01.07 14:22:00 - [386] Edited by: MrRookie on 07/01/2005 14:22:24 IMO the only benefits the assault frigs have is the Powergrid and the resistance and maybe the cap. Most frigs have damage bonuses awsell so maybe one high slot makes the difference damagewice. The resistance bonus should be natural as in the HACs and another bonus should be added for the frig lvl. I will probably park my AF to try out the interceptor now with the litle extra they get. _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
xenorx	Posted - 2005.01.07 18:13:00 - [387] First let me say congrats to all the intercepter pilots out there. I am happy for you all getting some more love. They were already superior to the assault frigates in every way but resistances. Now they are even better. I will finally train up the intercepter skill so I can compete on an even footing. Currently,I fly the Amarr assaut frigates. The Vengeance and Retribution. They are fun to play with against NPC's as long as they are not spamming missles. About the only missles that cannot hit an assault frigate is a defender. The ships have so much unfulfilled potental it is insane. The resistances are its only good points other than they look cool. They are slower than standard frigates in base speed. They have twice the mass of a base frigate so even using a MWD will not get you much better than 1300-1350 m/s in a straight line because there is not a 2mn MWD. Forget about orbit speeds. They do not do much if any more damage over time than a intercepter or standard frigate. Warp speeds are the same as a standard frigate so there is no chance of catching anything that runs. It is easier to fit out a omen or maller at less than half the cost to do the same job. Yes it can kill an intercepter as long as the intercepter slows down and gets inside of 10km so it can be webbed. However an intercepter pilot wont need to use a web on an assault frigate because it is already slower than every other ship in the game other than an industrial or a battleship. Assaults Frigates need some serious love too!!! This is a Tech 2 frigate that costs about 20 million. That is more than twice an intercepter and really not much better than the basic 200k frigates they are based on. 1. They should reduce the mass and increase the base speed of them to match the basic frigates they are based on. This would make them even in speed to a standard frigate and the moduals like MWD's and AB's would have the proper effects on them. They will still be way slower than any intercepter. I know that someone out there will say it has more armor. So what! This is a Tech 2 ship made from the best most advanced materials out there. There is no reason for it to have to be heavier. 2. They need to have a better warp speed as well. Increase the warp speed multiplier to 3.0. This will even it up with the slowest intercepters in warp and still be slower than the faster intercepters. 3. Give the Retribution +1 mid slot and the Vengeance + 1 low slot. (I dont fly the other races but Im sure they need to be adjusted too.) 4. Assault frigates by their very nature should be able to put out more firepower than any other frigate class. Give them some kind of damage bonus to make this happen. I dont mean that they should have double the DOT but it needs to be able to hit harder and kill fast because it cannot out run and out manuver like an intercepter. It has to depend completly on its armor resistance to survive. I will be flying intercepters and parking my assault frigates from now on. I hope Tomb and Co dont wait a year to find the time to fix these ships. By then they will have become the forgotten frigates. Not really fair to us who trained the intensive skills to fly them or the ppl who got the BPO for them.
Arimas Talasko	Posted - 2005.01.07 21:13:00 - [388] Edited by: Arimas Talasko on 07/01/2005 21:17:17 Or as someone else has suggested on this thread, embed the resist bonus for AF (like the HAC's) and give them another bonus. Well, that would still leave the Retribution a horribly overpriced gimp in most pvp actions, so adding a single midslot is probably in order as well. Yes, AF's, including my boy the Retribution, smashes through level 3 agent missions like they are nothing, but apparently certain HACs can also smash through level 4 agents missions... so HACs are great in PvP and PvE, while probably half of the AF's are absolutely lame in one of those areas. Supremacy Keepin it Real
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.08 07:56:00 - [389] Originally by: Arimas Talasko Yes, AF's, including my boy the Retribution, smashes through level 3 agent missions like they are nothing A Crusader can smash through lvl3 missions... I bet with the new AB changes it could do it faster then a retribution. ________________________________________________________
1024	Posted - 2005.01.08 09:19:00 - [390] So is there any idea as to when these will be happening, yet? ...

Bad'Boy	Posted - 2005.01.08 13:57:00 - [391] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 08/01/2005 13:56:48 missions sux tbh...... give my enyo 4th bonus plz(like HAC) thx. B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.08 19:40:00 - [392] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Arimas Talasko Yes, AF's, including my boy the Retribution, smashes through level 3 agent missions like they are nothing A Crusader can smash through lvl3 missions... I bet with the new AB changes it could do it faster then a retribution. Inty pilots like you and I are, bluntly, a bit better than average though. I've killed every other interceptor in my claw "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.08 19:51:00 - [393] maya, do you mean every other interceptor class, or every other interceptor you've encountered ever? if it's the former, i deserve a cookie also \o\ ----- ----- -----
Alejandro Zapata	Posted - 2005.01.08 21:27:00 - [394] Edited by: Alejandro Zapata on 08/01/2005 21:28:42 Quote: 3. Give the Retribution +1 mid slot and the Vengeance + 1 low slot. (I dont fly the other races but Im sure they need to be adjusted too.) Rather than add slots to all the ships, just take away the Retribution's 5th Hi Slot, and place a second medium slot. This would still allow the ship to NPC hunt and PvP, while not making it, IMO, a super ship in comparison to the other AFs. It is the only AF that by design cannot fix an enemy in some way w/o lowering its speed potential. All the other ships, excluding the Wolf, have 3 or more medium slots. Back on topic, I really like my new interceptor, and I am really going to like the new bonuses. Much thanks TomB. Can't wait.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.08 22:53:00 - [395] Originally by: Vampire Blade maya, do you mean every other interceptor class, or every other interceptor you've encountered ever? if it's the former, i deserve a cookie also \o\ Every other class. 1v1 :) The Tarranis was the hardest, tbh "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.08 23:38:00 - [396] ya, only ever lost 2 other claw's 1 to a taranis with drones already out (curious as to how it would go) and my recent loss was to buhahahahaha's crow, turned off mwd too early, missed my range shooting range grr. however, learnt some valuble lessons. claw is a such a great ship, makes short work of all other interceptors when you apply some tactics and logic to combat and setups. just a shame that with the crow and taranis, you don't need to do this. 99% of battles you can click the "i win" module ;( i all honesty i'd love to see more falloff on the claw and a little boost to both autocannon tracking and damage. ----- ----- -----
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.09 01:19:00 - [397] Originally by: Maya Rkell Every other class. 1v1 :) The Tarranis was the hardest, tbh Tarani are the most predictable and imo, the easiest...that said, don't know what range you fight at... Anyway, the Retribution needs +1mid, +1 turret, -1 low. I didn't sign up for this tanking bull****, i want a turret ship as amarr are suppose to be. Other AF's such as wolf, enyo, harpy get 4 turrets + a launcher. ________________________________________________________
Morikai Acler	Posted - 2005.01.09 05:51:00 - [398] For the most part I like the changes. I didn't read through the whole thread, so I am asking for clarification on the warp speed changes. Does it mean regular frigs will still warp at 6au, non tackler ceptors will go 9, and tacklers will go 13.5 AU per second in warp. Or is it being changed to 2 au for frigs, 3au for ceptor, 4.5 au for tacklers? I havent been able to log in to test server for a bit because of heavy work schedule. As far as AF's go, I can't really say much about the lack of mid slots on some ships. There are other ships in other classes that are in the same boat. I just take the view that rather than worrying about tackling with them, I hit fast and VERY hard. I personally would never underestimate an assault frig regardless of a midslot shortage. I underestimated a covert ops frig once and lost a crow because of it.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.09 15:10:00 - [399] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Maya Rkell Every other class. 1v1 :) The Tarranis was the hardest, tbh Tarani are the most predictable and imo, the easiest...that said, don't know what range you fight at... 0-5km.... yep, beating them at their own game :) "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Dark Silver	Posted - 2005.01.09 23:32:00 - [400] Edited by: Dark Silver on 10/01/2005 15:38:59 Quote: 1. Lost Interceptors getting upgraded - missing slots Ares: +1 Med +25 CPU Stiletto: +1 Lo +1 Missile Raptor: +1 Hi Malediction: +1 1 Hi +2 Missile * These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are. I always thought of my stiletto as a deadly ew platform, serves well from nos'ing and warp/scram enemies whilst mwd'ing

Hakera	Posted - 2005.01.09 23:55:00 - [401] Originally by: Dark Silver I always thought of my stiletto as a deadly ew platform, serves well from nos'ing and warp/scram enemies whilst mwd'ing I like my stiletto - big bad taranis cant do nuttin when she's jammed Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2005.01.10 00:26:00 - [402] Originally by: Hakera Originally by: Dark Silver I always thought of my stiletto as a deadly ew platform, serves well from nos'ing and warp/scram enemies whilst mwd'ing I like my stiletto - big bad taranis cant do nuttin when she's jammed No faster way of getting 3 warp scramblers on a target either
Sennju Zensu	Posted - 2005.01.10 11:27:00 - [403] these changes incoming soon ?? ...
Erucyll Turon	Posted - 2005.01.10 11:50:00 - [404] your sig = deleted
M0rr1gan	Posted - 2005.01.12 14:21:00 - [405] Dunno if this ahas already been mentioned as i couldn't be arsed to read all 12 pages. The only things I would change from the proposed setups are :- Ares - +5% thermal missile damage instead of the +5% falloff. Maybe loose the drone bay and fit a 3rd launcher. Stilleto - Give it 2 launchers and an +5% explosive missile damage bonus instead of falloff. Neither of these would make better missile boats then the caldari intys but at least they would be far more attractive to use.
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.13 10:49:00 - [406] Since you slow programmers are taking forever to get this onto TQ, I'm going to make a last plea for the Crusader. Don't give it a tracking bonus, its got enough damn tracking. Give it an optimal range bonus.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.13 17:52:00 - [407] same could be said for the claw (especially since you're boosting autocannon tracking ANYWAY) "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.13 18:47:00 - [408] i'd think a speed/falloff bonus on the claw would work. ----- ----- -----
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2005.01.13 19:18:00 - [409] Id go with an optimal range bonus for the Crusader aswell, since it tends to go longer range. For the Claw ive seen most people seem to use 200mm, so falloff would be best. (Might not be 200mm, but one of the shortrange projectiles anyway...) /Elve New Video out! Watch me!
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 01:43:00 - [410] Originally by: Selim Since you slow programmers are taking forever to get this onto TQ, I'm going to make a last plea for the Crusader. Don't give it a tracking bonus, its got enough damn tracking. Give it an optimal range bonus. Yes please. If you devs flew crusaders in pvp you would know that it is not used at a range that is really affected by tracking. Please do not give it a useless bonus ________________________________________________________

Phades	Posted - 2005.01.14 16:25:00 - [411] Only real advantage that the assault frigs really have over the interceptors would be range in most cases. Adding the range bonus to the crusader would make it a really fast retribution with more playability wouldnt it? I am curious though about the comments about how the autocannon and the pulse laser have enough tracking speed. I know they hit reliably against slow or large targets, but what about against a similar calibur ship with both moving at high speeds creating a very dramatic transversal speed when both ships are on an opposite crossing pattern or oribt. Personally i am rather confused as to the reasoning behind the beefing up of the outgoing firepower of the interceptors instead of giving them a more reliable working range and hit setup against even the smallest and fastest targets like other interceptors. I would view the assault ship in their current form an answer to smaller ships by bumping up their ability to take damage and put out damage. This would be opposed to creating a ship that can do exactly the same thing, but be able to always choose the distance to fight at, have more versitalty, avoid most (if not all) damage intended for it, while putting out comparable damage to assault frigs and larger ships. Considering the class that the interceptor ship represents, i am surprised that their ship bonuses are not the sig bonus, tracking speed, fall off, and a mwd/AB bonus of some kind across the board. Granted many of those are redundant towards the base values of the ship and one already exists for all interceptors, but it would appear that there is too much blurring towards what which ships can/should do already.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.01.14 21:45:00 - [412] Originally by: Phades Only real advantage that the assault frigs really have over the interceptors would be range in most cases. Adding the range bonus to the crusader would make it a really fast retribution with more playability wouldnt it? I am curious though about the comments about how the autocannon and the pulse laser have enough tracking speed. I know they hit reliably against slow or large targets, but what about against a similar calibur ship with both moving at high speeds creating a very dramatic transversal speed when both ships are on an opposite crossing pattern or oribt. Personally i am rather confused as to the reasoning behind the beefing up of the outgoing firepower of the interceptors instead of giving them a more reliable working range and hit setup against even the smallest and fastest targets like other interceptors. I would view the assault ship in their current form an answer to smaller ships by bumping up their ability to take damage and put out damage. This would be opposed to creating a ship that can do exactly the same thing, but be able to always choose the distance to fight at, have more versitalty, avoid most (if not all) damage intended for it, while putting out comparable damage to assault frigs and larger ships. Considering the class that the interceptor ship represents, i am surprised that their ship bonuses are not the sig bonus, tracking speed, fall off, and a mwd/AB bonus of some kind across the board. Granted many of those are redundant towards the base values of the ship and one already exists for all interceptors, but it would appear that there is too much blurring towards what which ships can/should do already. Why are you for a fall-off bonus but against an optimal bonus? Surely they amount to almost the same thing?(Apart from on lasers admittedly) ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Slik	Posted - 2005.01.14 22:14:00 - [413] Originally by: TomB 4. Warp Speed Increased - tacklers need faster warping Ares, Stiletto, Raptor, Malediction: 4.5 Warp Speed Multiplier Taranis, Claw, Crow, Crusader: 3.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Normal Frigate: 2.0 Warp Speed Multiplier As far as this change is concerned, I would prefer to see this as an inteceptor skill bonus... so: Bonus: 50% Faster Warp per inteceptor skill level. It just makes more sence. Slik (slippery when wet)
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.14 22:41:00 - [414] Originally by: Phades I am curious though about the comments about how the autocannon and the pulse laser have enough tracking speed. I know they hit reliably against slow or large targets, but what about against a similar calibur ship with both moving at high speeds creating a very dramatic transversal speed when both ships are on an opposite crossing pattern or oribt. 99/100 times you're dealing with a mutural web. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Phades	Posted - 2005.01.15 05:51:00 - [415] I only suggested fall off, because many of the higher tracking weapons work more with the falloff range than the optimal and the overal working range is a touch short for a ship as fast as an interceptor. Also a falloff modifier doesnt affect the longer range weaponry as heavyily by comparison, but it does benefit from it. Extending the working range dramatically with a optimal range modifier would be more detrimental overal when considering role, intended or not. Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Phades I am curious though about the comments about how the autocannon and the pulse laser have enough tracking speed. I know they hit reliably against slow or large targets, but what about against a similar calibur ship with both moving at high speeds creating a very dramatic transversal speed when both ships are on an opposite crossing pattern or oribt. 99/100 times you're dealing with a mutural web. Yeah i see your point, somehow i allowed myself to be dilluded into thinking that there was a possibility that a interceptor wouldnt be fitted to disrupt propulsion once in awhile. Perhaps a better alteration or ship class specific modification via skill for the interceptor ship would be a negation towards hostile disruption of the propulsion of the ship to allow it to function at high speeds. I think i remeber someone else suggesting that or something similar before. I still think that the tech 2 ships, such as the interceptor, should be build around a philosiphy or purpose instead of the generalization that they appear to have currently. There are really only 4 examples of role defined ships, so far and i feel that narrows the scope of how diverse a encounter could be. Many of the ships seem to be a generic ship with a insert perk here rather than something designed to perform a specific task and unfortunatly only the industrial ships and mining barges perform the job noticably well in their intdended role and better than other ships attempting to play the role. Let the base class ships (frigate, cruiser, battleship) be good at different tasks or roles, but make the other ships perform more adequatly than those in only one area and not all of them at the same time.
Yaman	Posted - 2005.01.15 19:28:00 - [416] Ok I'm sorry but the interceptor is now worthless... I was away for a month or two and I come back and you can't only use an oversized AB on it without a terrible penalty, but now that I figured a way to go really fast and keep a small signature radius....I find out you can't outrun missles in an orbit! WHAT THE FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUULK? That's wrong. I'm sorry. I can understand not wanting to have super rifters and such. That's fair ok. I mean let's put aside the fact that a complete noob probably wouldn't have one since training to use a micro auxiliary powercore took a little bit of time... I know it's a LOT quicker than training for interceptors. So fine. I'll take that. No more super frigates. HOWEVER. The interceptors were fine. 100% fine. They didn't need to ruin them. What? Did too many people whine? Did some head hancho say ooh I hate these things... Why? Cuz they were too stupid to know how to counter them? It's really simple. NOS OR WEB. Or even drones. Interceptors were invincible only under certain conditions as are tanking battleships under certain conditions. Why not nerf them too? Hell why not make every ship obsolete? We can fly around in shuttles and mine and trade instead of fight. The interceptor was a strategical ship and I'm sorry if someone important lost a battleship to one...whoever did, congrats you're a noob. (or just gambled and didn't put a nos/web on. oh well) So now you can't outrun missles, you can't have a low signature radius and go fast... What's the point? Ok, I really like challenges and I'll admit that. I've come up with some really insane setups (anyone who ever followed my research) and I'll do the math. I know how fast I need X ship to fly in order to dodge X turret or missle. I know the formulas and I take the time to work on this. Ok and now I'm hearing rumors of the Malediction getting missles? NO. WRONG. I mean hey, I'm Amarr, I'll love it. I'll kick the crap outa things with it...but it's balanced without the extra high slot because it has the 3rd medium slot! What are you on over there dev team??? Let me remind you how it's setup. Crusader = LOTS of damage due to extra slot, but less medium slots so not really for PVP. Malediction = One less hi slot so you do less damage because you have 3 med. slots for web and scramble. YOU DO NOT want to put more damage on the Malediction because then you'll have them doing too much damage. I use these ships and I'm honestly saying it'll be unbalanced... well that is if you ever decide to make interceptors how they used to be. Outrunning missles was the entire point... Did you know... SINCE I KNOW YOUR MATH apparently you don't... That an interceptor can fly without any mods or anything at 500m/s or so and dodge battleship turret fire! Did you know that? So with a simple afterburner using almost nothing in power/cap, you can dodge mostly all turrets. Just not missles of course.. So what's the point of using afterburners? Whats the point of MWDs? Hell you can forget the micro aux. powercore now because that's out the window. Waste of slot. It was there merely to accomodate the oversized AB. MAYBE if someone wanted stronger weapons but remember the stronger weapons have lower tracking speed and putting a powercore eats up a slot where you might want to put a tracking mod. See, I know how to set things up. This game is like chess, it's like a puzzle. I figure things out. ...maybe, I guess I can't change the rules of missles :( I give up. I don't care what you do. I'm going to find a way to fix it and make you change your rules again! With this bullllllllllllcrap they put out now, it's over. It's done. Plain and simple CCP..... FIX THE FREAKING INTERCEPTORS. (and missles!) Or else all you'll see soon is a bunch of people tanking in scorpions... carebare dev team.. bah
Yaman	Posted - 2005.01.15 19:42:00 - [417] woah I'm readin the dev's original post... ARE YOU STUPID? Congratulations, you made the Crusader worthless. The only thing it will have on the malediction is a tiny bit more speed (which is worthless now because the only reason you want to go fast is to outrun missles as I pointed out in my previous post). You really don't have a clue what you're doing do ya? Are you new on the job? You destroyed the purpose of speed by disallowing the ability to outrun missles in orbit. Now you don't need those oversized ABs or the MWDs.. You can just fly at normal speed to outrun most guns. Ok, a normal 1mn afterburner for frigate guns I guess. And yes you won't be able to outrun ALL guns, but for pvp combat concerns you can easily dodge the battleships.. SO... now that you've taken away the purpose of speed... You decided to do some other messed up things like ooh I know, 25% DAMAGE! instead of speed for the Malediction. WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU ON? The CRUSADER has the bonus for damage the Malediction for rate of fire. You do want DIVERSITY in the game, right? I mean you don't want all the ships to be the same... The Malediction will be the best interceptor in the game now most likely. The Crow... well I know it was hot because it fired missles before but guess what... now the Malediction will so what's the point?? What? Speed? No. Guess again. The only time you're gonna see a significance for a few 100 m/s speed difference is when you're fighting interceptor vs. interceptor. Congrats... you destroyed something I loved... I hope you're happy.
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.15 20:53:00 - [418] are you an alt of that alt that was flaming me for something totally irrelevent? ----- ----- -----
Vardemis	Posted - 2005.01.16 01:20:00 - [419] Since the recent changes to missiles and oversized abs I only lost one interceptor in battle. It was not to these changes, they are still great and do there job. When you cannot find a way to fit them properly now, its your problem. I fly most of the time interceptors. So far only caldari and amarr though. both are very nice and with the new changes I am about to add some Raptor and Malediction to my Flight Deck. To enjoy the diversity and usefulness they will offer.
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.16 07:18:00 - [420] In reply to Yamans post, if the devs read the later posts in this thread, they'd realise the Crusader should get an optimal range bonus. Which would give it a unique edge over the Malediction. Crusaders already the better tank anyway.

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.16 12:25:00 - [421] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Phades I am curious though about the comments about how the autocannon and the pulse laser have enough tracking speed. I know they hit reliably against slow or large targets, but what about against a similar calibur ship with both moving at high speeds creating a very dramatic transversal speed when both ships are on an opposite crossing pattern or oribt. 99/100 times you're dealing with a mutural web. Yeah i see your point, somehow i allowed myself to be dilluded into thinking that there was a possibility that a interceptor wouldnt be fitted to disrupt propulsion once in awhile. Perhaps a better alteration or ship class specific modification via skill for That'd kill short range inties. You NEED to be able to keep the enemy close to kill them. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Naphtalia	Posted - 2005.01.17 00:08:00 - [422] Well I have been quiet on here I just want to point out that the raptor (one of the fast tackling inties) is the interceptor that has a slowest basespeed and mwd-speed of all other ceptors.... at least make it faster then the crow 430m/s maybe?
Phades	Posted - 2005.01.17 05:37:00 - [423] All inties really should be "short" range and use their manuverabilty and speed to keep the relative distance short between each other. Even though its not a universal option, but flying the ship manually should have a place in the game instead of just clicking on oribt and timing/adjusting speed.
Fogy	Posted - 2005.01.17 13:17:00 - [424] YAY TO 10% MISSILE BONUS!! :D \o/ ur lovely TomB! time to dust of my arbalest rocket launchers then.. :) ching ching chwoong! :D 16km rocket range.. with.. 1.6km/s rocket speed.. woooh! devastating.. :P "From my rotting boddy flowers shall grow and I am in them, and that is eternity" ♥RUBRA♥
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.17 17:14:00 - [425] Yea. MARGINALLY overpowered. looks at TomB "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Yaman	Posted - 2005.01.17 17:47:00 - [426] Originally by: Selim In reply to Yamans post, if the devs read the later posts in this thread, they'd realise the Crusader should get an optimal range bonus. Which would give it a unique edge over the Malediction. Crusaders already the better tank anyway. Yea that would be better. Or at least a start. Of course it's sad that we have to tank an interceptor...That shouldn't be. I miss old super fast interceptors :(
Phyre	Posted - 2005.01.18 01:07:00 - [427] Ya know... this is something I've never understood because it just doesn't seem realistic to me. Battleships are supposed to be the kings of combat. By definition of the battleship in any military that has used them in history, the battleship was the main powerhouse of any fleet, that is, until Carriers started showing up. I'm not talking about Eve here, I'm talking about real life. A small combat unit, wether it's a fighter, frigate, cruiser, pt boat, etc... had no chance of sinking a battleship. It would take squadrons of fighters or other small craft to bring down a single battleship. Remember Pear Harbor? How many hundreds of fighter/bombers did they have to use to sink those battleships? When I hear reports of Frigates (talking about Eve now) bringing down a battleship solo, I almost cry because this is so stupid. Yes, frigates have manueverability. That is something I agree with. If a frigate doesn't want to be hit, then it should be very hard to hit it. However, the damage they do is NOT realistic, or balancing in the least. When a Taranis can hit a battleship for 2-300 on it's biggest hits, and a battleship cannot fight back unless it has equipped one of the three ONLY systems able to bring down a interceptor, that's crap. Anyone who says interceptors are fine is just nuts. Interceptors by definition are craft designed to catch the enemy and deal with them until support arrives. Eve makes it's interceptors look like freaking assault frigs - with extra speed. If CCP would rename all of it's interceptor class frigs as Assault Frigs, that would be more in line with what thier definition should be. I'm not saying that battleships should roam the space with impunity, but I am saying that interceptors shouldn't either. If I'm in an Apoc, I don't want to have to give up a few medium slots just for the off chance that I'll face interceptors. I should not have to devote slots on my ships JUST to face one kind of ship. Frigate roles are support, hit/run, and easy target gankers. They should NOT just be able to fly around a battleship and chew it down while the pilot just laughs at the poor battleship who can't hit it. Even drones have a hard time hitting interceptors. You can't use heavy drones to much effectiveness because they can't keep up with the inty to hit it well, and the light drones - while fast enough - don't hit for squat and will never chew it down. So, unless you have a cruise missile launcher and/or light/med drones, webber, and warp scrambler, you aren't going to hit any interceptor. And if you manage to start hitting it with either drones or missiles, then unless you have a warp scramb, it's just going to get away and pick on a different battleship or other "easy" prey. So what do I say that CCP needs to do in order to balance interceptors? There are several ideas in mind. 1) Nerf thier damage. Frigates, even T2 frigates, should not hit harder than T1 cruisers, period. Assault frigs are fine, they are slower, harder hitting, and well, real combat frigs. 2) Increase the armor/shield/hull of battleships only. OR 1) Enable heavy drones to pummel frigates when they are orbiting the battleships. 2) Enable webbed frigates to be hit as easily as they should be with large turrets. I haven't lost a battleship or cruiser to interceptors, yet. But anytime that I know I'll be going up against them, I always fit med and small turrets on, whatever missiles I can load up, a heavy nos, webber, warp scrambler or two, and med/light drones. All this JUST to combat interceptors. Then I go back and fit my battleship like a REAL battleship. I hate having to fit my ships in different "kits" just to combat interceptors, and then another "kit" to combat everything else. I'll never fly an interceptor, because they are too powerful. I hate having such a gross advantage over someone in a game, it sucks the fun out of it for me. Give them interceptors thier speed, but for god's sake, remove the crazy damage they dish out.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.01.18 01:23:00 - [428] Everytime someone compares Eve ships to RL ships, I literally throw up. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
BigJim Beef	Posted - 2005.01.18 01:24:00 - [429] Originally by: Phyre Even drones have a hard time hitting interceptors. You can't use heavy drones to much effectiveness because they can't keep up with the inty to hit it well In my experience heavy drones hit interceptors just fine (and i'm on the 'ceptor end).
Phyre	Posted - 2005.01.18 02:25:00 - [430] My heavies hit interceptors fine as well, when they are moving slower than 1km/s, but every time I've had an interceptor orbit me at a fast pace, my heavy drones never seem to hit hard, at all. And, I'm too lazy to look back and see who wrote it, but comparing Eve to RL is not what I was doing. I was comparing the roles of ships in Eve to the roles of thier counterparts in the RL world. The name Battleship isn't something that CCP invented, it's a class of ship that CCP modeled thier biggest spaceship after. In any sci-fi world/book/movie/show, they have taken the naval terms of Earth and applied them to spaceships. Eve designed thier ships in just this manner. However, their actual performance is far off of what thier role was supposed to be. Destroyers, for instance, are supposed to be fleet support, designed to take out smaller fighters and protect the larger ships. I even remember reading just these descriptions about Destroyers before they were released into the game. Then, when they came out, all they are is a terrible hybrid between cruiser and a frigate. They've got the gun slots for many frigate sized guns, but they are a larger target (bigger sig radius), they lock slower, they don't have the cap to support thier guns and systems, and any decent frig can destroy one with minimal effort. When I first heard about Destroyers, I was thinking of the Destroyers per thier roles in RL. Mid-sized ships, close to cruisers, but geared entirely to combat fighters and fighter/bombers. This is entirely off subject, and I'm sorry. Back to Interceptors tho. CCP is making them the uber ship of the game, that is, until Dreadnaughts, Carriers and Titans enter the fray. If these changes are permament, this game will be incredibly unbalanced. But, as with all MMORPG's I've played, they all become unbalanced after the first two years. CCP is just speeding up the process it seems. I played Everquest first, and unless you were one of the four good classes (cleric, shaman, warrior, enchanter) you had a hard time finding a group. Then it was Dark Age of Camelot, and after two years, they kept adding so many new things, that the original classes were so obsolete (except the support classes, Healer, Cleric, Shaman, Druid, Bard, etc) that they couldn't compete with the shiny new classes, and all of the original content was so obsolete and worthless that people wouldn't even give them to thier alts. Even new players didn't want them. And then we come to Eve, which originally had some balancing issues concerning locking speed, tracking... but it seems that with every "fix" CCP does, there are countless other errors, bugs, or overbalancing issues that arise. Right now, they think Interceptors need to be fixed, so they are going to increase thier performance even further. This will kill the game for alot of people who can't or won't fly interceptors. The next time someone flies thier brand new battleship and they face off with a Taranis with a +50% damage bonus, they are going to be returning home in a pod or clone, and my guess is clicking the "cancel account" button soon after.

Farjung	Posted - 2005.01.18 05:30:00 - [431] Originally by: Phyre So, unless you have a cruise missile launcher and/or light/med drones, webber, and warp scrambler, you aren't going to hit any interceptor. And if you manage to start hitting it with either drones or missiles, then unless you have a warp scramb, it's just going to get away and pick on a different battleship or other "easy" prey. I've got no actual experience, so this'll probably be all wrong, but: If you've got a siege launcher equipped, can't switch out your torps for cruise missiles and kill any orbiting inty with the current state of missile behaviour? If you've got a heavy nos then won't the inty run out of cap in a matter of seconds? => no mwd, the inty can't outrun your heavy drones, and it goes pop pretty quick. As for warp scrambling - against any ship surely if you don't fit a scrambler they always have the option of warping out? Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2005.01.18 10:48:00 - [432] Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 18/01/2005 11:01:11 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 18/01/2005 10:59:54 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 18/01/2005 10:58:08 Id rather see the inties getting a locking/webbing/ scrambling bonus or such like but i`ll take whats given. Maybe need to look at beefing Ass frigs up a tad though. For that matter basic Cruisers need a lil tweak still too. btw Yamam, i fly Crusaders and Maledictions. Read the Maledictions description, its Khanid, hence a mix or amarr and caldari tech (same as the Sacrilidge heavy ass cruiser) so to my mind makes sence to try and make it a diff ship than the pure Amarrian Crusader... I think im going 2 enjoy a Malediction with missiles, it`ll have a totally different feel to my Crusader. Finially 2 questions for the devs 1. Any ideas when this update is due? 2. Are bombers ever going to make it into the game? (i spy a nice option for t2 destroyer platforms) Edited for sooooo many typos Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Nekhad Jormuzzar	Posted - 2005.01.18 12:23:00 - [433] Phyre if you want to make RL comparisons I suggest you learn something on naval warfare first. Battleships were VERY vulnerable to submarines, torpedo boats and night engagements with destroyers (which carried torpedoes). Which is why they had a sizeable screen of smaller vessels around. Battleships in EVE are much more powerful when flying solo than their RL counterparts.
goleane	Posted - 2005.01.18 13:51:00 - [434] phyre, if ceptors frightens you so much please fit your bs with small guns med with track comp, web and sensor booster and low with dammage mods i promise you will kill any ceptor that will run in you..... hum... whats the matter Battleship ? hey you cant do everything at the same time !!!!!!! dont say bs can't kill inty say bs can't kill inty and kill cruisers and kill bs and kill ..... with the same fit at the same time(oki caldary can :p) ..... oh and inty vs cruiser: i have to say you it's ok my thorax do twice the domage my tara does (i don't count heavy drones in that :p ) and i have quite better skills with the tara (ie small hyb 5, med hyb 4(i should work this :( ))
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.18 16:24:00 - [435] you know what's stupid about frigs killing battleships? the battleship pilots of course. i bet the battleship pilots in real life aren't retards. i don't think any battleship pilot with at least 3 months worth of skilling would fall to one frigate. it's just that a lot of newbie think that bigger = better and invincible, then they get owned mining jaspet in 0.4. ----- ----- -----
PaulAtreides	Posted - 2005.01.18 16:50:00 - [436] Originally by: Slik Originally by: TomB 4. Warp Speed Increased - tacklers need faster warping Ares, Stiletto, Raptor, Malediction: 4.5 Warp Speed Multiplier Taranis, Claw, Crow, Crusader: 3.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Normal Frigate: 2.0 Warp Speed Multiplier As far as this change is concerned, I would prefer to see this as an inteceptor skill bonus... so: Bonus: 50% Faster Warp per inteceptor skill level. It just makes more sence. I agree with this. Want to work for me?
xenorx	Posted - 2005.01.18 19:28:00 - [437] I have to agree with a lot of what Phyre said. When I first started playing the game the ship classes had more traditional roles. Of course everyone went straight for battleships much to the surprise of CCP. The battleship was far to uber in that state. There was not much point to flying cruisers and frigates. CCP didnt try to ballance this by giving Battleships more firepower,tracking and speed. They hit them with the nerf bat by bringing out the intercepter and changing the tracking characteristics of all turrets in an effort to ballance the game. Of course they made the intercepter overpowered for its class. It has the firepower and speed advantage over all other ships. They can be killed but it requires fitting for that role specifically. Strangely they are trying to ballance the game in some way by making the intercepters even more overpowered. I dont understand it personally. The intercepters were doing just fine owning every other ship class. They needed to deal with the assault frigates and to some extent the destroyers before tinkering with the intercepters but that is just my oppinion. I Wasted months of training for battleships, cruisers, distroyers, and assault frigates. I should have just trained intercepters but they were not out back then. I have adapted now and have my intercepter skill trained to lvl 4 and will go for lvl 5 shortly. The bottom line is "if you cant beat them, join them". So CCP I am now trained once again bring on some more speed and firepower so I can be overpowered too!
Phyre	Posted - 2005.01.19 08:42:00 - [438] Exactly, Xenorx. It's not that interceptors frighten me so much, as one illiterate poster stated, it's the fact that I've pretty much wasted so much time training skills to be a good battleship pilot. I'm still going to continue training my gunnery skills, because I want to have Large specialization skills and because I'm too stubborn to join the interceptor flavor of the month fan club. And to Nekhad, Battleships weren't as vulnerable as you make them out. Destroyers were excellent subhunters as history has said, yet in this game, any interceptor will wax a destroyer np. They get all the nice damage bonuses, destroyers don't. Battleships were a nation's physical representation of thier power. America had some big battleships to show thier naval power. Japan built bigger battleships to show even more power. Germany was planning on building a monster of a battleship but the war ended. In this game, Battleships used to mean power. As for nightfighting, anyone back in WW2 sucked at it. America was just beginning to develop IR systems and make them usable. The only time battleships were vulnerable was when there were MANY smaller units attacking it. And it had the defense to hold off quite a force. In Eve, there are two battleship setups: The "Battleship" battleship, which is what a battleship should be, and then the gimped "Ceptor Hunter" which has to sacrifice everything a battleship should be in order to combat interceptors. I do agree that in the beginning, they were too powerful. But we are at a point now where, unless you fit alot of tracking mods and mods to slow down your opponent, a battleship has a hard time even hitting a fast moving cruiser. I remember being in a Thorax and dodging 4 FA battleships until the interceptors wtfpwned me. But I couldn't hit the interceptors for the life of me. CCP... stop trying to "fix" interceptors. They DONT need it. Instead, focus on getting these ships back to thier descriptions. Make the battleships a battleship. Increase thier tracking, because I'm sick of having to fit several tracking mods and train months of skills just so I don't waste ammo trying to take down some npc cruisers. Make cruisers stronger, so a single frig shouldn't completely own it. An Elite frig should only rival a Tier1 Cruiser, not be better than it. Make Destroyers more of a frigate hunter and less of a flying coffin. Just becuase destroyers are great at killing the little Sansha and Gurista rats at the gates in secure space doesn't mean they are "good" frig killers. I do have a question to the devs at CCP... exactly how much testing do you guys do before you decide to change something, or add something new? And the second question is, don't you guys realize how much work you'd save yourselves if you tested things a little bit more, and made sure they were balanced when you added them? Just look at all the fixes you guys are proposing. Look at how long it's taken you guys to add Titans, which is something I read about LAST YEAR. Titans have been continually delayed because of added content, ships, fixes, bug fixes, nerfs, etc. Seriously.. is common sense not part of the job description when you accept applicants?
Elixier	Posted - 2005.01.19 09:42:00 - [439] So, you want to take a cannon, and then shoot at a racing car going flat out? You can't, and you shouldn't be able to hit a ceptor in a BS without disabling it's speed first imho. Elixier's Kills
lythos miralbar	Posted - 2005.01.19 13:48:00 - [440] Quote: If you've got a siege launcher equipped, can't switch out your torps for cruise missiles and kill any orbiting inty with the current state of missile behaviour? If you've got a heavy nos then won't the inty run out of cap in a matter of seconds? => no mwd, the inty can't outrun your heavy drones, and it goes pop pretty quick. yeah. .true.. untill missiles and nos's get nerfed.. Ive died many times to intercepters in frigates.. which Im not complaining about, afterall intercepters are designed for splatting normal frigates.. I finally realised the futility of PvP in a normal frig a while ago and two days ago got my hopefull awnser to the problem... a Harpy. My skills are pertty good (everything relevent at lvl4 and above), Its loaded with named/tech 2 kit and setup well(loads of dammage + good tank) . In the same way intercepters can own any tech one frig, I expect to be able to own ANY intercepter I meet in a 1v1 fight. If not then to be honest I'm going to give up eve and go farm sheep in the hills.

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.19 14:36:00 - [441] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 19/01/2005 14:37:05 Interceptors? Well, apart from the fact that you shouldn't really be flying a BS solo (try you know, MIXED FLEETS), you have, (not all options avaliable for ALL BS, true..) * Missiles (and FoF Missiles) * Nos * Web / Heavy Drones * Medium Drones * Smartbombs * Smaller Guns * Tracking Mods ...AT LEAST half a dozen ways of dealing with Interceptors. I (in my Claw - NOT the highest damage inty, I know the Tarranis does better vs cruisers, but anyway) can't take out a battleship. A poorly handled cruiser? Sure. Anything SMALLER than a cruiser? Hell yea. Including the Tarranis :) That works for me. Also, bluntly, unless it's a Raven or a Scorp (and even then), I'm NOT afraid of a lone BS. I can dance rings arround it and annoy it though. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Nekhad Jormuzzar	Posted - 2005.01.19 15:14:00 - [442] Originally by: Phyre And to Nekhad, Battleships weren't as vulnerable as you make them out. Actually there were even more vulnerable. I didn't mention mines or aircraft. Quote: Destroyers were excellent subhunters as history has said, yet in this game, any interceptor will wax a destroyer np. They get all the nice damage bonuses, destroyers don't. Destroyers are not meant to wax interceptors but frigates. If you want to wipe out ceptors, assault frigates are what you want. Quote: Battleships were a nation's physical representation of thier power. America had some big battleships to show thier naval power. Japan built bigger battleships to show even more power. Germany was planning on building a monster of a battleship but the war ended.In this game, Battleships used to mean power. They are still powerful. In fact they excel in the same area real BBs were designed for: fleet combat. Quote: As for nightfighting, anyone back in WW2 sucked at it. America was just beginning to develop IR systems and make them usable. The only time battleships were vulnerable was when there were MANY smaller units attacking it. And it had the defense to hold off quite a force. Wrong again. The japanese, for example, were much better prepared for night combat when the war started. And a single submarine, costing hundreds or thousands less resources and manpower could sink, and sunk, battleships with ease. It was it's screen of escort ships that gave the BB it's main defence, while you want it to be able to kill anything without trouble in any situation. So get an escort for your fleet combat setup BB. Quote: In Eve, there are two battleship setups: The "Battleship" battleship, which is what a battleship should be, and then the gimped "Ceptor Hunter" which has to sacrifice everything a battleship should be in order to combat interceptors. Strangely enough, battleships in WWII had two main roles as well (!). First was the traditional big gun platform, capable of (by then limited) fleet combat and most impotantly artillery fire to support ground ops. And second ... a fast (capable of following carrier battlegroups), stable, heavy AAA (anti-air arty) platform, escorting the main assets of the fleet, in this case carriers. Does that sound familiar? Your problem is that you want EVE to be a levelling treadmill where bigger is better. There are tons of games like that out there, and there is a reason I don't play any of 'em. They are dumb and boring beyond words. I for one prefer the old rock-paper-scissors gamestyle where you have to actually think at least a little. You obviously don't. More power to you.
goleane	Posted - 2005.01.20 09:41:00 - [443] lol phyre .... if you just have fly a ceptor you would have seen how fast they can be break and you'll see that you can't kill a bs with a ceptor if it have a tanking,you just have not enougth dps ... on the other side you should have a deeper look in this thread and see that in fact it's a nerf on high dammage ceptor (except the second ammar one)yes a nerf by 11-12%dmg... see : 1001.25/0.75=166,667 1001.5=150 16.6667/150=11% less dmg and why do many use ceptor ? try to use them they are all but a no brainer !!!! they are just FUN to play with !!!! beware phyre 10 incursus can kill a bs !!!!! NERF THE FRIGATES !!!!!!
Yaman	Posted - 2005.01.20 15:30:00 - [444] You shouldn't cry about interceptors taking down battleships... If you're a battleship pilot who's lost to ONE interceptor then I REALLY feel sorry for you. There aren't ONLY three modules or ways to beat an interceptor. EVE is a game of strategy and there are a million setups out there and a million possible combinations. It's like a puzzle. Trust me, I've done the math on things in some cases and spent many hours working things out. To beat an interceptor: 1. Webber 2. Nosferatu (mind you this works from a battleship up to 20km! The interceptor will be out of speed and ability to fire lasers or repair and be a sitting duck before it even gets within its optimal range!) 3. ECM. I think here is where the interceptors need a nerf. I think they should only have 4 strength. This way it only takes one Multi-Spec ECM. 3. 1/2 - ECM BURST! OMG what??? That useless module? YUP! It has a strenght of 8! That means it can handle interceptors and frigates within 5km (many ceptors fly this close. although i'll admit i was at 7km for small nos and stuff like this module). I think this module should be revisited though because it yes it breaks the lock but a small ship can relock a battleship real easy again. Also I think this module would be best served as drone defense. ie. Jamming everything within 5km. Unfortunately as is, the drones just relock instantly. Anyway, this module may work and may not work depending. 4. TRACKING CPU! One or two small guns. Wow, what a foreign concept. I ALWAYS have small laser(s) on my Apoc. OMG! YES, yes I do. Why? Well first off I can't fit 8 tachy's. 2nd, I don't want to completely drain my cap with said tachy's. 3rd, I want to kill frigates and interceptors whether npc or human. No one said you can't put a small gun on a big ship. Even a medium gun has a chance of hitting with a tracking enhancer. 5. Small guns. Just try a small gun or two alone without a tracking enhancer. Get a real fast tracking one. Usually they won't have a repair because it'd drain their cap too much and they plan on not getting hit too much. Even if they broke off and flew away before you blew them up you are getting them off your back. Enough to warp out if you're a sissy :) 6. ONE just ONE warp core stabilizer. IF you are worried about one interceptor anyway. 7. ARMOR TANK. If you're in a battleship you should be able to tank against an intercpetor or two even. 8. DRONES. Just don't use the heaviest slowest drones there are. Also throw in some acolytes (the fastest tracking. You need a frigate that goes 5km+ in orbit to dodge them, I know from actually doing it. But you can't anymore because you can't use dual AB/MWD.) and some medium drones. --- There's other solutions as well. If you've ever piloted an interceptor you know it's vulnerabilities. That's the best way to know how to take down any ship in my opinion. The real world military does this. They create a super stealth ship or something and then they try to detect it. You can try combat with your corp mates and see how it works in empire without any risk really. You just gotta try things. Read forums, ask people. Run numbers. I think those 8, and theres more, ways of destroying or eluding interceptors are plenty. I REALLY REALLY think they should put back the ability to outrun missles in an orbit. Also the oversized AB because it makes interceptors worthless. Of course an MWD isn't too bad against cruisers and battleships that don't have tracking modules. HOWEVER, I'm more concerned about NPCs. I don't take my interceptor into 0.0 and attack random lone battleships.... Doesn't work that way. It's in fleet combat. With a MWD my sig radius is that of a small cruiser and that's enough to get hit by a lot of things already. I DEFINATELY don't need missles hitting me too. OR I use an AB and don't get hit by guns but don't go fast enough to evade missles... So I suppose I could live with no oversized AB for PVP. Just not NPC missions. But gotta change missles in orbit for sure.
Yaman	Posted - 2005.01.20 15:39:00 - [445] i apologize for being redundant and not reading the two posts before mine stating how to go against an interceptor. Thanks
Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.20 19:06:00 - [446] Originally by: Yaman 3. 1/2 - ECM BURST! OMG what??? That useless module? YUP! It has a strenght of 8! That means it can handle interceptors and frigates within 5km (many ceptors fly this close. although i'll admit i was at 7km for small nos and stuff like this module). I think this module should be revisited though because it yes it breaks the lock but a small ship can relock a battleship real easy again. Also I think this module would be best served as drone defense. ie. Jamming everything within 5km. Unfortunately as is, the drones just relock instantly. Anyway, this module may work and may not work depending. this is not really an option against an interceptor. the module has a duration of 20secs, ehat saves energy. the really big point making it useless is it only ACTS all 20 secs!! that means 3 times per minute you will break intys lock. there aren't intys out there that need more than 3 seconds to lock a bs, so longtime before your bs is in warp, the inty locked again and fires you and scramble/web you again. i have no idea if this is a bug or wanted. the point is it works only half against a normal frig, and thats basically it. there are not many people out there using normal frigs atm.....
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.20 19:10:00 - [447] Edited by: Selim on 20/01/2005 19:10:53 meh, I quoted some post and it must have been too long cause it got deleted... lame
Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.20 19:23:00 - [448] but what i really want to mention here is the new balance of inty<->assault. the problem now is that intys are stronger while assaults aren't. that may unbalance them when seeing that an inty goes for 8 (minmatar) , while the assault goes for 18. compared to their price several are to strong now. for example stilleto <-> jaguar: they can fit the same amount of dmgmods. instead of the optimal, they have same boni. they have the same amount of slots alltogether, even tho the stilleto has a medslot more and lacks the high. and the stiletto has an incredible high speed compared to even the jaguar ( yet the fastest of them all ). now it is in the oppinion of everybody for himself (or herself) if he/she favours speed as defense or resistences. fact is they are now too equal in strenght compared to the 300% it will take to replace the jaguar. even more worse, claw <->wolf: equal amount of slots but the 1 gunhighslot. the claw can nearly match that by having 50% dmg instead of the 25% a wolf has. i think with 1 dmgmod the output is even higher, if not at least equal. i think a wolf will win due to its resistences. but why my wolf costs 18 mil for that little advantage, while i've seen a claw today for 6? if i understood it right, assaults should be master of frigfrag. this balance is now very little for assaults.... maybe a solution is to adjust 5%dmg to 10, and 10% optimal to 10% dmg aswell, to have the same an inty has. if that would be overpowered again ( i think they should compared to other frigs ), adjust speed a little in pos, or give them an ability to survive tII ew (if ecm will be looked at in the future) of like at least 10 for every assault sensor strenght. the most prefered for myself is the dmgdeal, second speed, and the definatly last is ew. but even this is better than nothing
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.20 22:19:00 - [449] You're kidding right? Any properly fitted assault will destroy any interceptor any day of the week. If the pilots are of equal skill, of course.
Kayscha	Posted - 2005.01.21 11:19:00 - [450] Err... Anyone care to explain to me what the new Malediction secondary bonus is good for? Are there more than just a few ppl out there using EM missiles? I think there should be a more general purpose bonus for them, much like other ceptors receive.

Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2005.01.21 12:16:00 - [451] Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 21/01/2005 12:25:22 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 21/01/2005 12:17:17 Originally by: Kayscha Err... Anyone care to explain to me what the new Malediction secondary bonus is good for? Are there more than just a few ppl out there using EM missiles? I think there should be a more general purpose bonus for them, much like other ceptors receive. As far as i can see the Bonus fits the Khanid/Dark Amarr fluff (storyline). Amarr ship with knicked Caldari technology. Tbh EM/Lasers are the Amarr thing, so the bonus for em missiles makes sence. Though they should give the Inquisitor missile frig the same em missile bonus (if it doesnt already have it.. im at work and cant check), maybe the bomber varient will if it ever appears. But in practical terms all Inties would be better with a speed/web/scrambling bonus rather than an outright combat one, thus giving the Ass frigs a better bonus. edit typos Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Kayscha	Posted - 2005.01.21 16:19:00 - [452] That's my view, as well. I wouldn't think of using EM missiles on my maledictor, this is something for a missile boat. Give us a contraband bonus instead, or an agility one.
Dathias	Posted - 2005.01.21 18:23:00 - [453] Originally by: Kayscha That's my view, as well. I wouldn't think of using EM missiles on my maledictor, this is something for a missile boat. Give us a contraband bonus instead, or an agility one. Nope. Interceptors are ships for fight. Not for transporting things But EM dmg bonus for malediction is useless. Give them thermal bonus or something else. If not thermal maybe will be better if they got bonus for EW (web, scramble) instead as counterpart for damage dealer Crusader.
Bram Bram	Posted - 2005.01.21 19:10:00 - [454] Originally by: TomB 3. Giving second bonus to Interceptor Skill - all other ships have two, makes use of training skill... When's Covert Ops skill getting it's second bonus?
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.21 22:09:00 - [455] Originally by: Cadman Weyland Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 21/01/2005 12:25:22 Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 21/01/2005 12:17:17 Originally by: Kayscha Err... Anyone care to explain to me what the new Malediction secondary bonus is good for? Are there more than just a few ppl out there using EM missiles? I think there should be a more general purpose bonus for them, much like other ceptors receive. As far as i can see the Bonus fits the Khanid/Dark Amarr fluff (storyline). Amarr ship with knicked Caldari technology. Tbh EM/Lasers are the Amarr thing, so the bonus for em missiles makes sence. Though they should give the Inquisitor missile frig the same em missile bonus (if it doesnt already have it.. im at work and cant check), maybe the bomber varient will if it ever appears. But in practical terms all Inties would be better with a speed/web/scrambling bonus rather than an outright combat one, thus giving the Ass frigs a better bonus. edit typos Inquisitor does
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.22 04:18:00 - [456] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 22/01/2005 04:18:17 TomB, this is important: You are changing RoF to Damage. This means one minor and one MAJOR point. The minor is less amo use. I don't see this as a HUGE concern. The MAJOR is cap use. You've just lowered cap use. This is significant for blaster and laser users. If you change the weapons, you do nasty things to the T1 frigates which use them. If you put a special condition on the interceptor (more cap use) it'll LOOK a bit strange, but work. I think the major point needs to be addressed. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Robstr	Posted - 2005.01.22 05:23:00 - [457] What would be the possibility of getting a third turrets and perhaps a few PG on the Raptor so it can be more of a gunboat ala Malediction. I don't see any problem with the inties doing good amounts of damage. But i think the assult frigs need to hit harder than they can. That can happen by gettign rid of the resistance boni and giving them boni like the HAC's have w/ resistances built in. The Inties do nice damage w/ a speed tank of sorts, and the assults do nicer damage w/ a quite nice HP tank. Two diferent ways of getting to roughly the same means, blowing **** up with style.
NateX	Posted - 2005.01.22 10:35:00 - [458] WHENN??? cant wait for 4slot raptor _______________ ______/ Regards NateX
PunkFish	Posted - 2005.01.22 11:05:00 - [459] Edited by: PunkFish on 22/01/2005 11:06:06 OMG i just went through all the 14 pages. I forgot all the things i wanted to say... I just know i like the higher warp speeds for "tier 1" interceptors. And their role as tacklers. I only know minmatar frigs... So i don't know how all this stated changes will be affected by the projectile and the EW changes. The projectiles will be boosted, i only fear the EW changes... I don't know assault frigs that well, only what i've heard from corp mates... They kick NPC ass I never seen one of them was used in PvE - maybe cause they're to lame and to expensive to loose... I'm personally looking forward to this changes - i hope i won't get dissapointed I have just one question - anyone seen Destroyers flying around? There were many in the first 2 weeks of EXODUS, but since then, noone seems using them... What's their role anyway...
unnamed hero	Posted - 2005.01.22 14:02:00 - [460] i just wonder... crusader fitted with med. pulse t2 has same damage output as retribution with maxed assault skills... of course you have to fit aux cores, but you wont get hit as easy in ceptor... surely ceptor will die to assault frig, but killing cruisers and attacking bs-s is far easier in ceptor(geddon can't hit assault with ab on 15km, so it cannot hit ceptor without mwd or ab(same speed less sig)), but difference is that it takes bs 40s to lock ceptor and 20 to lock assault...) and assault will probably die on its way to the bs, while ceptor wont. Not to mention that vengeance does not have AND dmg or rof bonus while amarr ceptors have them. Surely they make nice tanks, but punisher has the same dmg output as vengeance and costs 100 times less(ok 50). My point is that ceptors need more tackling bonuses, not dmg bonuses... surely they should be able to kill any lvl 1 frig(if pilot in ceptor is not complete idiot), but their dmg output should not match assault frigs

Ukiah	Posted - 2005.01.22 15:25:00 - [461] So, when can we expect these changes to be implemented?
Selim	Posted - 2005.01.22 16:01:00 - [462] Originally by: unnamed hero i just wonder... crusader fitted with med. pulse t2 has same damage output as retribution with maxed assault skills... of course you have to fit aux cores, but you wont get hit as easy in ceptor... surely ceptor will die to assault frig, but killing cruisers and attacking bs-s is far easier in ceptor(geddon can't hit assault with ab on 15km, so it cannot hit ceptor without mwd or ab(same speed less sig)), but difference is that it takes bs 40s to lock ceptor and 20 to lock assault...) and assault will probably die on its way to the bs, while ceptor wont. Not to mention that vengeance does not have AND dmg or rof bonus while amarr ceptors have them. Surely they make nice tanks, but punisher has the same dmg output as vengeance and costs 100 times less(ok 50). My point is that ceptors need more tackling bonuses, not dmg bonuses... surely they should be able to kill any lvl 1 frig(if pilot in ceptor is not complete idiot), but their dmg output should not match assault frigs If you put two equal pilots in a match, one in an assault and one in an inty, the assault will win 90% of the time. Notice how I say equal pilots. Of course an excellent interceptor pilot can completely smash a poor assault pilot.
Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.22 16:28:00 - [463] the real problems with thoose changes is that the changed ships will do more dmg in reality, not less. the problems for that are the dmgmods. higher rof but highr dmg means nothing other than MORE dot a dmgmod will grant your ship....
Kickass	Posted - 2005.01.22 22:38:00 - [464] A question regarding the ROF change. Is this going to affect other ships besides interceptors? The post says that ROF bonuses have ill effects on the server which means that the changes are most likely going to effect other ships besides interceptors? Please fill us in on what is in store.
Nafri	Posted - 2005.01.23 04:14:00 - [465] I thinks its about ceptors and frigs only since taranis can get really good ROF with thier bonus probably leading to problems with hit counting and such Wanna fly with me?
Farjung	Posted - 2005.01.23 10:02:00 - [466] Originally by: TomB 1. Lost Interceptors getting upgraded - missing slots Ares: +1 Hi +25 CPU * These ships are damned as useless compared to their bigger brothers, they will still stay a little hybrid versions, not as focused on destroying as the other 4 are. 4. Warp Speed Increased - tacklers need faster warping Ares, Stiletto, Raptor, Malediction: 4.5 Warp Speed Multiplier Taranis, Claw, Crow, Crusader: 3.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Normal Frigate: 2.0 Warp Speed Multiplier Hmm, I don't think I'm imagining things, but when you first posted these changes you had Ares pencilled in for another mid slot rather than another high slot yeah? Just wondering why the change in plans. If the Ares is meant to be filling the tackler role wouldn't another mid make more sense than more damage from another high? Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Twi Xunigi	Posted - 2005.01.23 15:17:00 - [467] I was actually looking quite forward to the extra mid slot on the Ares, why did has it been changed?
Chee	Posted - 2005.01.23 15:31:00 - [468] The +1 hi slot on the ares gives it what advantage? none.. it would still do under for the 'assault' interceptors and wouldnt increase any tackling it could do (which atm it sucks at) therefore the +1 hi is a bad idea, +1 mid is alot better Its not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
Xanta	Posted - 2005.01.23 17:19:00 - [469] Might as well tackle with a taranis over an ares stupid really it won't even tackle better. Poor ares doomed to to be used as a shuttle till it gets another mid
Sennju Zensu	Posted - 2005.01.23 18:50:00 - [470] agree, why changed with a Hi ?? put a MEd on it, it's a tackler not a killer (we have taranis to make more damage!).

Galk	Posted - 2005.01.23 22:58:00 - [471] Agreed with the above, why the high.... Was looking forward to the mid slot myself.. i use the ares and the tanaris in totaly different ways. Bringing them more into line up high is going to limit that... i saw more opertunity with an extra mid, specialy as your bumping the cpu. ------------------------ ---- Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.01.24 01:06:00 - [472] Agreed, the Ares is the tackler varient. The extra mid is badly needed, and the extra CPU is wasted otherwise. Kill the enemy, and break their toys.
Velsharoon	Posted - 2005.01.24 16:42:00 - [473] Put the mid on the ares not the high I was gonna be using mine, now im just gonna stick to taranis
Mrissa Easeah	Posted - 2005.01.24 18:08:00 - [474] Um, midslot on the Ares please. Let it do what it was intended to. Going back and giving it another high slot instead of a midslot -weakens- it compared to all of the other changes its 'collegue' designs are being given. It hardly ever gets used as it is because its a choice of webber or scrambler with your speed boost. You can pin something down, but it can warp, or you can prevent it from warping, but it can get away. While the Tyranis gets all the damage bonuses, can speed, web and jam at the same time. Or you can web and scramble, and sit perfectly still and let everything shoot you to smithereens. Seriously, even with the extra high slot, it will never compete with the pure combat interceptors their bonuses out. Not sure what the point of a fast, nimble interceptor, that's gallente, doesn't have drones (Tyranis does), can't catch and hold its prey, and can ... armor tank?! Wrong race, bizarre set of bonuses, and no rationale that I can grok.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.25 02:25:00 - [475] Please change the Crusader Laser tracking bonus to optimal range. We have enough tracking. ________________________________________________________
OnDa Rag	Posted - 2005.01.25 04:47:00 - [476] Give my Ares a Mid Slot Pls . . . A high slot is rather useless for a ship designed to tackel . . . And as for the bonus, can ya make it a EW usage bonus? Tackelers would benefit from that more than any damage bonus.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.25 05:02:00 - [477] Originally by: Meridius Please change the Crusader Laser tracking bonus to optimal range. We have enough tracking. Ditto claw "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Emeline Cabernet	Posted - 2005.01.25 05:34:00 - [478] malediction, drop the missiles all together. Instead add another medium slot, and give it an cap bonus on ew modules.
Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.25 11:44:00 - [479] do this, do that... guys, are u serious? this is not a wishlist than more a collect of oppinions about this change and where the difficults, unbalances, etc.. might be but ok, CCP give my wolf 2 more medslots, because it is my one. hopefully this post fits now to the others...
Hakera	Posted - 2005.01.25 13:12:00 - [480] ceptors are tacklers not killers, remove all offensive bonus and add tackling bonus tbh, assualt frigs are killers, you screw with af by making cepetors more uber. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com

Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.25 13:39:00 - [481] just my oppinion, but a maybe solution is to enfasten assaults. there are more worthy bonuses of course, but if we begin to make all more powerfull it might become too unbalanced again. i would prefer dmgbonuses on assaults, too, but then they may become too strong :( . giving them a higher chance to reach an inty could probably solve their weakness against the new RAISED dmg ( i say it again, the dmg is not lowered. higher rof but higher dmg is MORE dot by using a dmgmod. especially taranis pilots will have one most likey, and many others will follow that lead) of intys.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.25 16:15:00 - [482] Originally by: Hakera ceptors are tacklers not killers, remove all offensive bonus and add tackling bonus tbh, assualt frigs are killers, you screw with af by making cepetors more uber. Little too late for that don't ya think? I don't use my ceptor to tackle, i use it to kill. It's been this way for a long ass time so please hush. ________________________________________________________
Borzoi	Posted - 2005.01.25 17:31:00 - [483] Originally by: Twi Xunigi I was actually looking quite forward to the extra mid slot on the Ares, why did has it been changed? You said just what i thought also, Ares been saying + 1 med slot for a long time, how come its been changed to hi slot ?? ...
xenorx	Posted - 2005.01.25 18:53:00 - [484] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Hakera ceptors are tacklers not killers, remove all offensive bonus and add tackling bonus tbh, assualt frigs are killers, you screw with af by making cepetors more uber. Little too late for that don't ya think? I don't use my ceptor to tackle, i use it to kill. It's been this way for a long ass time so please hush. How is he late? He was the first post after Tomb on this sticky. Personally, I totally agree with him. The intercepter is for tackling and pinning the victim down. The Assault frigate is for the heavy hitting. CCP has rolled both roles into the intercepter and is treating the Assault frigate like a red headed step child.
Farjung	Posted - 2005.01.25 20:19:00 - [485] Originally by: Gian Bal giving them a higher chance to reach an inty could probably solve their weakness against the new RAISED dmg ( i say it again, the dmg is not lowered. higher rof but higher dmg is MORE dot by using a dmgmod. especially taranis pilots will have one most likey, and many others will follow that lead) of intys. I don't really understand how you've come to this conclusion, could you explain? By my reckoning... With the current stats (ignoring gunnery skills, these will apply equally before and after the patch, as will the damage mod, but you're hung up on that for some reason so I'll include it) a light ion blaster II fitted on a taranis has: damage multiplier of 3.375 * 1.25 = 4.21875 with a tech II mag stab = 3.375 * 1.25 * 1.1 = 4.640625 RoF of 3 * 0.75 = 2.25 with a tech II mag stab = 3 * 0.75 * 0.895 = 2.01375 Normalised damage multiplier = 4.640625/2.01375 = 2.3045 With AM that translates to a raw normalised damage output of 12 x 2.3045 = 27.65 hp per second per gun (remember this is on the low side because I'm not including any gunnery skills) After the changes: damage multiplier of 3.375 * 1.5 = 5.0625 with a tech II mag stab = 3.375 * 1.5 * 1.1 = 5.56875 RoF of 3 (no ship bonus) with a tech II mag stab = 3 * 0.895 = 2.685 Normalised damage multiplier = 5.56875/2.685 = 2.074 With AM that translates to a raw normalised damage output of 12 x 2.074 = 24.88 hp per second per gun. I think I've done everything right, and as TomB said, there's a small reduction in DoT. It basically boils down to pre-change: 1.25/0.75 = 1.67; post-change 1.5/1 = 1.5. Reduction in DoT of 10%. Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.25 21:33:00 - [486] maybe i made it with gunnery skillz, i got more in my maths for like 4%
Gian Bal	Posted - 2005.01.26 01:31:00 - [487] Edited by: Gian Bal on 26/01/2005 01:38:41 neutron blaster I : dmg 3.5 rof 3.5 25% of 3.5 = 0.875 taranis now : dmg 4.375 rof 2.625 = 1.64 dot tII dmgmod : 4.3751.1 = 4.8125 2.6250.895 = 2.34975 dot = 2.0481 (rounded) 50% of 3.5 = 1.75 taranis then : dmg 5.25 rof 3.5 = 1.5 dot tII dmgmod : 5.251.1 = 5.775 3.5 0.895 = 3.1325 dot = 1.8435 i now took your post without gunnery skills and do it equal with neutrons for better recongizing due to easier multiplications and factors. without gunnery you are right, sorry for smack i'm still sure that with good gunnery skillz (from a m8's gallentean chars skilltree and factors out of shipinfo) this effect has a turnaround. otherwise i had done a real crappy mistake in my one :(
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.26 02:17:00 - [488] Originally by: xenorx How is he late? He was the first post after Tomb on this sticky. Interceptors have been out for almost a year, they have been the way they are since that time. Thats what i meant by being late. It's too late for a change. ________________________________________________________
Farjung	Posted - 2005.01.26 06:42:00 - [489] Edited by: Farjung on 26/01/2005 06:45:36 Originally by: Gian Bal i'm still sure that with good gunnery skillz (from a m8's gallentean chars skilltree and factors out of shipinfo) this effect has a turnaround. otherwise i had done a real crappy mistake in my one :( I see you're still not convinced. A full example including gunnery skills and a tech II damage mod: Light neutron blaster I: base damage multiplier of 3.5, base RoF of 3.5 Small hybrid 5, surgical strike 5, rapid firing 5, gunnery 5, magnetic field stabilizer II Pre-patch damage multiplier: 3.5 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.25 = 5.534375 * 1.25 Pre-patch RoF: 3.5 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.895 * 0.75 = 2.0048 * 0.75 Pre-patch normalized damage mod = (5.534375 * 1.25) / (2.0048 * 0.75) = 2.7606 * 1.25 / 0.75 = 2.7606 * 1.6667 Post-patch damage multiplier: 3.5 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.5 = 5.534375 * 1.5 Post-patch RoF: 3.5 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.895 = 2.0048 Post-patch normalized damage mod = (5.534375 * 1.5) / 2.0048 = 2.7606 * 1.5 Gunnery skills and damage mods apply equally before and after the patch, it's only the changes to the inty bonii that have any effect ;) Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Laurela Mangers	Posted - 2005.01.27 04:28:00 - [490] Edited by: Laurela Mangers on 27/01/2005 21:31:12 I'm still praying for another turret on the raptor, the Malediction gets it and it's basicaly the same type of ship. Versitile semi-gunboat. Just a bit extra punch to make up for the lowers speeds. The crow gets a 2/3 setup why can the raptor get a 3/2?

DoctorDanny	Posted - 2005.01.27 10:45:00 - [491] When exactly will these changes be implemented?
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.01.27 13:26:00 - [492] next tuesday doc, with the new patch (patch notes on general discussion forum already) Forums: Sharks - MC
Loka	Posted - 2005.01.27 13:46:00 - [493] May i bring your attention to the fact, that Taranis is now the only and single Interceptor, who can only mount 3 weapons in highslots? (3 Turrets 0 luncher) Iam curious about how balanced this is after the patch and if the Ares wouldnt be a better choice after patch. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.27 16:52:00 - [494] i think the taranis is also the only interceptor that can churn out a 7.8x damage mod and rof of 1.6 seconds or something silly. ----- ----- -----
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2005.01.27 17:38:00 - [495] I'm going to guess this will give a huge advantage to crows. 10% missle velocity per level as it will allow crows to use rockets outside of web range. I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.01.28 12:09:00 - [496] I'm a bit conflicted about the Ares changes. I think I like them. Maybe. Yes, it means that the Ares will (still) not be a proper tackler. But I have to admit I like the 2 x turret, 2 x missile combo, along with the missile damage bonus. With a t2 railguns & standard launcher setup, this would allow you to orbit outside web range and still do ok damage thanks to the Ares tracking bonus. Not bad. Will have to test in practise.
Loka	Posted - 2005.01.28 12:34:00 - [497] Originally by: Vampire Blade i think the taranis is also the only interceptor that can churn out a 7.8x damage mod and rof of 1.6 seconds or something silly. the rof suck my cap dry and i apriciate the ROF loss and the dmg gain much. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
Vampire Blade	Posted - 2005.01.28 13:02:00 - [498] Originally by: Loka Originally by: Vampire Blade i think the taranis is also the only interceptor that can churn out a 7.8x damage mod and rof of 1.6 seconds or something silly. the rof suck my cap dry and i apriciate the ROF loss and the dmg gain much. no **** :( it's a shame the claw doesn't directly benefit from this change. i think i'll be training gallente frig 5 very soon. ----- ----- -----
Parallax Error	Posted - 2005.01.28 14:09:00 - [499] Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:12:00 - [500] Originally by: Parallax Error Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship. It's making a good ship better. Sadly, CCP seem hell bent to make 'ceptors damage dealers when they are most valuable as tacklers. Why not make them tacklers? Oh, and that would leave AF as frigate damage dealers. Which is fine considering that they don't have the speed to tackle in the first place. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.

Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.28 18:19:00 - [501] Edited by: Meridius on 28/01/2005 18:20:14 Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Parallax Error Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship. It's making a good ship better. Sadly, CCP seem hell bent to make 'ceptors damage dealers when they are most valuable as tacklers. Why not make them tacklers? Oh, and that would leave AF as frigate damage dealers. Which is fine considering that they don't have the speed to tackle in the first place. Well, i haven't done the math but fitting on a launcher will most likely result in severe cpu problems. That and the fact that lasers do enough EM damage to begin with doesn't make the launcher thing too hot. It would be nice if they updated the model with 2 launchers as well About AF's being damage dealers, thats not what they're suppose to do. Don't ask me why but thats what the devs have said. ________________________________________________________
xenorx	Posted - 2005.01.28 20:30:00 - [502] Originally by: Meridius Edited by: Meridius on 28/01/2005 18:20:14 Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Parallax Error Is the Malediction still getting that crappy EM missile damage bonus? I'd be hard pressed to come up with something more useless for that ship. It's making a good ship better. Sadly, CCP seem hell bent to make 'ceptors damage dealers when they are most valuable as tacklers. Why not make them tacklers? Oh, and that would leave AF as frigate damage dealers. Which is fine considering that they don't have the speed to tackle in the first place. Well, i haven't done the math but fitting on a launcher will most likely result in severe cpu problems. That and the fact that lasers do enough EM damage to begin with doesn't make the launcher thing too hot. It would be nice if they updated the model with 2 launchers as well About AF's being damage dealers, thats not what they're suppose to do. Don't ask me why but thats what the devs have said. I believe the Malediction is going to have 2 launcher slots now Meridius. As far as the EM bonus. It really doesnt matter. There is no law that says you have to use EM missles. I probably wont. I have already parked my Assault frigates. No point pulling them out of the hanger till Tomb and Co start showing them some love. In the mean time I will be zipping around in intercepters.
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2005.01.28 22:07:00 - [503] I think Taranis needs an extra turret or missle hardpoint. It is the only tier 2 inty w/o 4 hardpoints, a deficiency that will be shared only by the stiletto. I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.28 22:30:00 - [504] Edited by: Meridius on 28/01/2005 22:30:22 Originally by: Letifer Deus I think Taranis needs an extra turret or missle hardpoint. It is the only tier 2 inty w/o 4 hardpoints, a deficiency that will be shared only by the stiletto. Uhh let me be the first to say. NO If you need an extra turret on the taranis you really don't deserve to fly it ________________________________________________________
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2005.01.29 00:59:00 - [505] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/01/2005 01:01:09 Originally by: Meridius Uhh let me be the first to say. NO If you need an extra turret on the taranis you really don't deserve to fly it I didnt say I need it. I want it. Crow has 3 missles and a turret, mal has 4 turrets, crusader has 4 turrets, so why wouldn't shouldn't the taranis have a missle HP? I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Draconis	Posted - 2005.01.29 01:45:00 - [506] Malediction has 4 Turrets? Hah! 3 Turrets 4 High yes.. not 4 turrets. Taranis is one of the nastiest interceptors as is.. Most interceptors think twice if they want to tangle with a Taranis. So if you want it to be heftier you need a good drowning in a toilet. THat ship is strong as is.. Jakob Remierat Oblivion Amalgamated Public Relations Nightmare
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.29 06:49:00 - [507] Edited by: Meridius on 29/01/2005 06:56:20 Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/01/2005 01:01:09 Originally by: Meridius Uhh let me be the first to say. NO If you need an extra turret on the taranis you really don't deserve to fly it I didnt say I need it. I want* it. Crow has 3 missles and a turret, mal has 4 turrets, crusader has 4 turrets, so why wouldn't shouldn't the taranis have a missle HP?* Taranis gets a 50% dmg bonus while the crusader gets 25%. A crow does have 3 launchers and a turret but that turret gets zero bonus's. Do the math. And yes, a malediction only has 3 turrets, not 4. You know, i'm not even gonna add the fact that you guys can fit more then 1 dmg mod on while we (crusader pilots) struggle to fit one. Taranis has 62.5 more cpu but only 6 less grid or something while our 6 grid goes out the door with the extra turret we have to fit, gg ________________________________________________________
Letifer Deus	Posted - 2005.01.29 07:43:00 - [508] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 29/01/2005 08:07:24 ohe xcuse me i write something drunk and write 4 turrets instead of 3 turets and 1 launcher for malediction (after patch,) thrw me a friggin bone. malediction with 3 med pulse and 1 rocket launcher (it will have 4 highs with 3 turret and 2 launcher HPs) will take a taranis unless the mal screws up. plus taranis sucks when its anything more than 1on1 (unless one uses rails.) I am the OG PIIIIIMP
Norris Packard	Posted - 2005.01.29 11:25:00 - [509] the ares has no use for an extra hi slot. the med slot would make it so much better for tackling and you said so your self that it is a tackler not a fighter. all an extra hi slot will do is make it comparable to the other pure fighters, but not well i must say. 2 med slots suck for tackling too it needs the 3 med slots!
Sparrowhawk	Posted - 2005.01.29 15:38:00 - [510] All good news to us Raptor BPO holders. Happy days are here again!!

Leegion	Posted - 2005.01.30 05:07:00 - [511] Originally by: Norris Packard the ares has no use for an extra hi slot. the med slot would make it so much better for tackling and you said so your self that it is a tackler not a fighter. all an extra hi slot will do is make it comparable to the other pure fighters, but not well i must say. 2 med slots suck for tackling too it needs the 3 med slots! Then I'd just fly the Taranis. A 2 Turret and 2 Missile loadout on an Ares, and then still be able to fit some armor enhancments should hopefully give it back some life.
KlugerEsel	Posted - 2005.01.30 18:42:00 - [512] so, we get all these upgrades and a ninja nerf? thanx! Read me for great news!!
Kickass	Posted - 2005.01.30 20:49:00 - [513] The ROF changes are more devastating than I earlier believed. Crows are completly useless now if you fight any beam user. I am curious what is the deal with CCP making all Amarr ships so strong? The lack of dual afterburners allows them to hit you for 100+hits from 25k or lower. And light missles cant even fly that far not to mention even attempting to catch up to their targets. Thanks CCP for the months of waisted training time, whats next?
Pimp Mustafa	Posted - 2005.01.30 21:26:00 - [514] Edited by: Pimp Mustafa on 30/01/2005 21:28:28 damn man give the ares a +1 med not +1 hi isnt more designed 2wards tackling??? unless u guys are bring out a hi slot webber or ws?!? ---------------------------------------------------------- http://img28.exs.cx/img28/5335/eddie2vo.jpg
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.31 02:55:00 - [515] Originally by: Kickass The ROF changes are more devastating than I earlier believed. Crows are completly useless now if you fight any beam user. How do you figure that? "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.31 08:54:00 - [516] Originally by: Kickass The ROF changes are more devastating than I earlier believed. Crows are completly useless now if you fight any beam user. I am curious what is the deal with CCP making all Amarr ships so strong? The lack of dual afterburners allows them to hit you for 100+hits from 25k or lower. And light missles cant even fly that far not to mention even attempting to catch up to their targets. Thanks CCP for the months of waisted training time, whats next? Don't whine because you can't fly your 10mn + 1mn ab crow that was 99% turret proof. Hits for 100+ from 25km? Try not to make up numbers, thx. ________________________________________________________
Sparrowhawk	Posted - 2005.01.31 12:10:00 - [517] BTW I am building stock pile of Raptors. Convo me in game for further details!!!! Happy days are here again!!!!!
Takani Mishka	Posted - 2005.01.31 13:06:00 - [518] Why is the Ares getting a high slot instead of the midslot originally planned? This ship is in the group designated as tacklers yet it is getting a firepower boost and still remains the only ship in the "tackling inty" group with 2 midslots. The others all have 3 or 4 midslots to tackle with. Pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top......put the midslot back and remove the high slot as was originally posted.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.01.31 13:25:00 - [519] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 31/01/2005 14:35:32 TomB, why boost Interceptors with one hand and nerf with the other? The MWD/AB II changes are NOT documented, and are completely unecessary You jump through all these hoops, and what do you end up with? Interceptors which are basically the same as before, but with added headaches and issues for those flying them. That's NOT fun. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.01.31 17:14:00 - [520] On stealth-nerf: Not good. STOP. On Ares: Ares is a god of war. Why not make that slightly more... damaging? That's a valid question. Compared to Raptor, I think the Ares deserve a high slot where the Raptor deserve a mid slot. On the other hand, the mix on the Ares will almost guarantee that it will never be as damaging as the Taranis. <insert your faction leader here> wants YOU to support interceptors for tacklers and Assault Frigates for damage! Do your part NOW. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.

Jane Vladmir	Posted - 2005.01.31 18:53:00 - [521] For gods sake, +1 med @ ares. Would it be too much?
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.01 04:18:00 - [522] Making the ares as powerful as the Taranis damage-wise would make the claw useless
Kickass	Posted - 2005.02.01 04:34:00 - [523] Log on to the test server and see for your self. The damage bonus is insignificant gives like 10 more damage per missle, and I have light missle level 5. And yes at 25km range the beam users start hitting very well when proprly fitted out. With tech 2 equipment beam users were a very good fight when crows were able to use my 10mn/1mn ab setup. Now its a pointless fight, no way can a crow win this fight unless the beam user is severly lacking in fighting ability. And this goes for just about any interceptor vs a beam user. If CCP is going to screw up our ships after the fact, they should at least offer the ability to move the skill points waisted to somewhere else.
dabster	Posted - 2005.02.01 08:07:00 - [524] Trackingbonus on Claw is very nice and dandy, but daaamn how a 3rd med slot would be nice to have :/ ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's
Phyre	Posted - 2005.02.01 22:25:00 - [525] Welp, CCP actually did give these changes to the interceptors. F'in morons. I'm sorry, I can't be nice about it. A Taranis was nasty before, now it has a 50% damage bonus (+25% more than before, which is crazy) at the cost of a very small decrease in RoF. The changes made for Projectile weapons are nice, however. I do not use them, nor do I fly any Minmatar ship, but I'm sure those people who do fly them will appreciate the extra tracking and damage. But you're far from done. You guys have fixed one problem, added countless others, and haven't even looked at the rest. It's really ***ing me off. Here we have had hybrid turrets doing the worst damage for the longest time, and all this talk about "balance" and all you guys can come up with is to further overpower Interceptors and up the dam/tracking on Proj a little bit? Just who exactly is in charge of balancing issues over there? I don't want to yell at the entire CCP staff, because I'm sure someone* is doing thier job right. It's a mathmatical law that 100% of you can't be morons. People have been screaming for fixes on Megathrons, hybrid turrets, nerfs for Interceptors, nerfs for missiles, and all around decent changes that would in fact help the game. Of course you can say you made people happy by giving Interceptors more lethality than they already have. There are always people who will love any "I win" class/ship/race etc in any game they play. But for those of us who like diversity, there must be balance, and balance is something you monkeys can't seem to figure out if your lives depended on it. Look at other online games, please. Everquest is doing good only because it's addictive. But most people who play it are griping all the time and very unhappy. Dark Age of Camelot has lost a ton of it's customer base because of balancing issues and the failure to fix them. Those are just two of the other online games that I have spent 2+ years playing - each, so I know what I'm talking about when I say you are going to kill your customer base if you don't fix the crap you've dropped on the non-interceptor pilots. Would it kill you to actually make a good game? Eve has such potential to be a great game, but with all the bugs and imbalance issues you guys are plagued with, Eve is barely more than a amusing game to play for a little bit. I really only log on to change skills, talk to my friends and maybe play a bit. But at least I still pay monthly for that, and that's all you care about, isn't it? Well, good luck with the future, CCP. I loved Eve when I started to play it, but it's going down the crapper with this path you're taking. If you desire to discuss things further, my email is listed with my account.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.02.01 22:46:00 - [526] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/02/2005 22:47:48 Er Phyre? The Tarranis does slightly LESS damage than before, but then again it uses less cap. The projectile changes, are counterbalanced by CCP's neat little nerf to MWD and AB II's, which means (especially for interceptors - the claw dosn't GET a cap benefit because it weapons USE no cap) that they now have MORE problems mounting speed modules, they can't run them as well (the claw has a huge cap problem! I've had, even with my uber cap skills back to off to a named 1MWD. This IS going to cost me expensive inties and may yet drive me out of PvP in frustration). So, the Claw at least is weaker than pre-patch. The Tarranis and the Amarr ships using MWDII's have to dedicate the cap they gained to their propulsion, and have to mount smaller guns in some cases too. The "tackling" inties have gained, but are still not as nasty in combat as the killer inties, and are expensive to lose when a normal frig can tackle. The Crow was the only inty I'm worried about being over-buffed, and that fear MAY yet prove groundless. (We'll have to see). Phyre, you're not only barking up the wrong tree, someone ****ed on it before you got there. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Selim	Posted - 2005.02.02 00:04:00 - [527] Not only can I not fit a mwd II with even dual light pulse, the second easiest guns to fit, I'm already challenged capwise, can't run everything forever, and this is on a Crusader. So I for one will not be able to use a tech 2 mwd. Clearly the crow is the inty of the month (year) again... great one-hit damage with missiles, that now go 50% faster, and its already pretty much the fastest inty, since it can easily fit a mwd 2, with no mass penalties. The taranis is also scary, with that tracking bonus its got.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.02.02 00:24:00 - [528] Edited by: Julien Derida on 02/02/2005 00:24:58 It seems rather unfair that the Crow gets an incredibly useful new bonus, while other ships get bonuses that are marginal at best. Claw - Tracking bonus combined with new projectile changes make howitzers somewhat useable. Taranis - Tracking bonus helps Neutrons work slightly better in close orbits. Crusader - Tracking bonus does.... **** all. Crow - Missile velocity bonus allows the use of rockets from outside of web range. And thats ignoring the tackler inties, who's new bonuses are either useless or only apply to half their weapons. Is this really balanced? ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Farjung	Posted - 2005.02.02 01:36:00 - [529] Originally by: Phyre Welp, CCP actually did give these changes to the interceptors. F'in morons. I'm sorry, I can't be nice about it. A Taranis was nasty before, now it has a 50% damage bonus (+25% more than before, which is crazy) at the cost of a very small decrease in RoF. They increased damage by 25%. They scrapped the RoF bonus of 25%, which did give an effective bonus to damage over time of 33%. Replacing a damage over time bonus of 33% with one of 25%... and you're upset? Pre-patch: 1.25/0.75 = 1.67x damage over time Post-patch: 1.5x damage over time Decrease in damage over time as a result of patch: 10% Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis
Kickass	Posted - 2005.02.02 07:51:00 - [530] What are some of you talking about?? Crow being better? ROFL Pre patch I did ~78 damage to shield with a rof of 6.8. Post patch its 84.4 damage to shield with a rof of 9.6. You think this is a gain? The missle speed bonus is pointless for missles or rockets, both are way to slow to catch any thing over 2k/sec.

Ithildin	Posted - 2005.02.02 15:21:00 - [531] Originally by: Kickass What are some of you talking about?? Crow being better? ROFL Pre patch I did ~78 damage to shield with a rof of 6.8. Post patch its 84.4 damage to shield with a rof of 9.6. You think this is a gain? The missle speed bonus is pointless for missles or rockets, both are way to slow to catch any thing over 2k/sec. Ok, so at that speed, does the thing you're trying to catch hit you? Also, please rethink the concept of a 15km range on rockets being useless. Perhaps you didn't know, but a Crow's main advantage was that it was so eternally more long ranged than it's peers. Also, it's guns don't require cap nor fitting. Not much to complain about with the Crow, really. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Kickass	Posted - 2005.02.02 22:24:00 - [532] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Kickass What are some of you talking about?? Crow being better? ROFL Pre patch I did ~78 damage to shield with a rof of 6.8. Post patch its 84.4 damage to shield with a rof of 9.6. You think this is a gain? The missle speed bonus is pointless for missles or rockets, both are way to slow to catch any thing over 2k/sec. Ok, so at that speed, does the thing you're trying to catch hit you? Also, please rethink the concept of a 15km range on rockets being useless. Perhaps you didn't know, but a Crow's main advantage was that it was so eternally more long ranged than it's peers. Also, it's guns don't require cap nor fitting. Not much to complain about with the Crow, really. I dont know where you are getting your facts from, here is my experience. Crows MUST be within web range to do ANY damage, if not none of your weapons actualy hit. Range advantage? Any beam/gun user can and will start hitting you at 25km range with good equipment. Beam users will kill you at that range if you hang arround long enough. If you get within web range on a beam user, you are dead by the time your 1st volley of missles hit. And they dont even need to web you because of the uber tracking speed.
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.02.03 00:13:00 - [533] Edited by: Julien Derida on 03/02/2005 00:17:19 Originally by: Kickass I dont know where you are getting your facts from, here is my experience. Crows MUST be within web range to do ANY damage, if not none of your weapons actualy hit. Range advantage? Any beam/gun user can and will start hitting you at 25km range with good equipment. Beam users will kill you at that range if you hang arround long enough. If you get within web range on a beam user, you are dead by the time your 1st volley of missles hit. And they dont even need to web you because of the uber tracking speed. Amarr interceptors can't even lock at 25km, let alone hit with their guns :S Edit: Ok, a Malediction with maxed Long Range Targeting can just about target at 25km. However, the optimal on Medium Pulses with Radio crystals is 16km with 2km falloff. They won't be hitting at 25km. Or are you talking about beam lasers? Noone uses them on interceptors because they have grid/cap/tracking issues compared to pulses. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Kickass	Posted - 2005.02.03 06:35:00 - [534] Originally by: Julien Derida Edit: Ok, a Malediction with maxed Long Range Targeting can just about target at 25km. However, the optimal on Medium Pulses with Radio crystals is 16km with 2km falloff. They won't be hitting at 25km. Or are you talking about beam lasers? Noone uses them on interceptors because they have grid/cap/tracking issues compared to pulses. I dont know what beams they are using, not an Amarr ceptor pilot or beam user my self. But I have been in dozens of test fights on the test server and most results are the same. At 25km they start hitting, the closer I get the more damage they do. If I try to rush in fast they plain out******me by the time my 1st volley is hitting them. This is for beam users, the other ceptors are fairly well balanced.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.02.03 07:25:00 - [535] I can't see your problem. If they hit you at 25km, which is maximum lock range of the turret 'ceptors, then all you need to do is get close. Really close. Because then they use Beams or Railguns or Howitzers, and they can't hit at less than 4km. But of course, I never do arguments based on such a silly observation as "this ship is better than that, cause it beat that in 1v1". Get a Crow and you can choose where to attack: 25km - to 0,000km. Most decent interceptor setups that are not Chaos Certified (let's face it, those setups suck on TQ most of the time) has an optimal range of about 5-6km or less. Personally I strive for 5km, so I can sit outside smartbomb range. Also, only the crow can ever hit for decent damage at point blank - 0 meters. NO turret will ever hit at that range. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Kickass	Posted - 2005.02.04 09:16:00 - [536] Originally by: Ithildin I can't see your problem. If they hit you at 25km, which is maximum lock range of the turret 'ceptors, then all you need to do is get close. Really close. Because then they use Beams or Railguns or Howitzers, and they can't hit at less than 4km. But of course, I never do arguments based on such a silly observation as "this ship is better than that, cause it beat that in 1v1". Get a Crow and you can choose where to attack: 25km - to 0,000km. Most decent interceptor setups that are not Chaos Certified (let's face it, those setups suck on TQ most of the time) has an optimal range of about 5-6km or less. Personally I strive for 5km, so I can sit outside smartbomb range. Also, only the crow can ever hit for decent damage at point blank - 0 meters. NO turret will ever hit at that range. I dont understand why people that have no clue must post their oppinions and not facts. Please go try it out before you make arguments that have no supporting facts. Fact is: Beam will hit 0-25km Crow's cant hit at or near 25km, unless the target is sitting still. For that matter crows cant hit period without a web, for the most part.
Jaynen	Posted - 2005.02.04 09:21:00 - [537] Dont they usualy still hit the problem is your missiles might not even get there till the crow dies first?
Julien Derida	Posted - 2005.02.04 16:40:00 - [538] Originally by: Kickass Fact is: Beam will hit 0-25km Crow's cant hit at or near 25km, unless the target is sitting still. For that matter crows cant hit period without a web, for the most part. I'd say that was actually 0-20km, but I do take your point. Crow's die very easily to Crusaders. ---------------------------------------- Artistic Director & Chief Diplomat - FRICK
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.02.04 18:08:00 - [539] Originally by: Kickass I dont understand why people that have no clue must post their oppinions and not facts. Please go try it out before you make arguments that have no supporting facts. Fact is: Beam will hit 0-25km Crow's cant hit at or near 25km, unless the target is sitting still. For that matter crows cant hit period without a web, for the most part. In much the same way I don't understand where people get their facts from, when all my experience tell me otherwise. As a Crow pilot, you can, contrary to any other interceptor, choose at which range to attack depending on situation. You are not limited to a certain range. If you attack a Destroyer or larger, you will not need a webifier. Most frigates will also be hit without a webifier, as will interceptors that aren't careful. It takes a bit more manouvering, and a lot less looking at raw stats to come to that conclusion. Also do note that many setups involve blasters and pulse lasers. In either case, as I said I am not interested in Interceptor vs Interceptor combat. (although I must admit my argument got lost in my eagerness to prove you wrong) Crows are possibly the best interceptors out there simply by virtue of weight and fitting. In an environment where every small ship is refered to as "bait" or "tackler", one come to value other properties than simply dishing out damage against a fast target. -- If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.


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