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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.08.11 10:33:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Skippermonkey on 11/08/2010 10:33:09 tl:dr MR loses CNR to a ninja while knowingly undocking with aggro still active, petitions loss, recieves a free CNR. -------
read these two blogs in order then tell me that CCP knows what they are doing. http://stabbedup.blogspot.com/2010/08/eve-stupid-stupid-stupid.html http://stabbedup.blogspot.com/2010/08/eve-exchange-of-views-with-ccp.html
Official CCP response would be good; explaining the rationale behind rewarding the stupid
Originally by: CCP Capslock
OH GOD THE TESTING
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Teschan
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.08.11 10:53:00 -
[2]
Tbh its probably a matter of time before this is locked as I believe it's against forum rules to discuss petitions or whatever.
What I will say is that either this pilot is saving face on his blog and outright lying about his reimbursement, or the rumours are true and CCP really do give carebears everything they want.
Having lost ships to blackscreens and entering game loops during fleet fights and never having them replaced after a week long wait just for a reply, I'd find it very disappointing but not completely unexpected if this guys ship was replaced.
His petitions responses read like a typical whining carebear who doesn't understand the game properly and just wants to sit unmolested in carebearland all day moaning about how other people are in his MMO.
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:04:00 -
[3]
Interesting .... I hope CCP is ready for the ****storm of petitions that will spawn now ========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:25:00 -
[4]
To be completely fair to the GMs, the reason why he got reinbursed was that his original aggro timer was extended for an hour, presumably by shooting wrecks. I guess this is the first step towards extending aggro being declared an exploit.
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Zanaraxtarus
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ressiv Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Couldn't have been a better sig in this topic!
I don't think (or maybe don't want to believe) that even the staff making such horrible decisions as sacrificing quality for quantity is THIS bad! Does the mechanic make little-to-no sense...Yes, of course.. Is it a valid and LONG-KNOWN game mechanic...Yes, of course..
How many people lost ships and other crap when deep safes were removed? Better yet, how many people were reimbursed when someone using a deep safe popped them?? ZERO
Either no reimbursment happened, or CCP is failing in more areas than just develeopment priorities! --Zan-- Ban Mr. Richardson! [I was respectful there, I called him "Mr" and deleted the bad word] (quantity/quality studies do NOT apply to EVE. WoW, YES. EVE, NO!) |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Excessum Messor
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:35:00 -
[6]
Suddenly Ninja tears, best tears. I love it when care bears grief you guys.
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Scrapyard Attendant
Minmatar Insurance Fraud LTD
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:38:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Scrapyard Attendant on 11/08/2010 11:42:50 I am in disebelief as to how CCP could possibly do this.
Its like when people lose ships to concord by others that get GCCed in hisec while theyre being repped, CCP will do nothing yet its a blatant exploitation of the concord mechanics... you dont even get a criminal warning, its totally unavoidable. And these people do not get reimbursed.
(i did not do this, i know someone who it happened to)
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K'Mahk
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: K''Mahk on 11/08/2010 11:42:24 Hmm..... Ninja tears...... how strange...
C'mon guys, you use mechanics and assume that everything you use is 'working as intended' Some things are 'as intended' such as the looting = aggression timers, however reseting the aggression timer (Remember that you started it, he escalated it with his act of aggression towards you) should be kept at the 'I can abuse and/or kill you as per my favorite whims' stage by you acting against his wrecks??
Whether you agree with the GSM's decision or not, he made a decision, would you rather he sat on his hands all day ignoring every request that came in for any kind of issue?
Based on the mission runners comments in the Blog, I'd say he was doing his best to remain reasonable, and to get an answer out of CCP, he probably did not expect to get the ship back, and based on his comments, he probably did not read your blogs. (Shocking I know, but not everyone takes a Sun Tzu View to intelligence) and thus was not familiar with your favorite devious tricks, yes, this game punishes you for doing something stupid, yeah, he did something stupid, he honestly believed the game had glitched and/or faulted and he petitioned CCP based on that belief and opinion. CCP took him at his word (probably after checking his account's history of such petitions and his previous loss-mails) and made a decision that they thought was fair, you can stand on the side-lines and scream 'FOUL' if you want, but it ain't gonna change CCPs decision, so now I get to use the term you all love to throw around whenever a Mission runner or miner complains about your tactics...
HTFU!!! IT'S A GAME!! and the GM's rule is STILL absolute.
EDIT: To replace Filth-Filtered word
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Xtreem
Gallente DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:45:00 -
[9]
file a report that he got it back and the lead up, and ask it to be looked at by a senior GM, as they need to have a set way of doing it.
also you cant talk about the gm's replies for this very reason.. they tend to all be made up on the spot and if we all get together about it then they will get rumbled :D
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.08.11 11:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xtreem
also you cant talk about the gm's replies for this very reason.. they tend to all be made up on the spot and if we all get together about it then they will get rumbled :D
No, it's because they would be obsolete if their word would not be in-game law. If the football players themselves would get to judge on in-game actions, there wouldnt be much of a game left.
In this case, the only thing I can think of is that the GM concluded that this guy was honestly not aware of the extending agro 'feature', and this lead to his loss.
While he could have went HTFU, he choose to be kind. They are just humans, prone to all kinds of mistakes and unrational behaviour like everyone else.
If this same person gets another CNR back from them after loosing it the same way, then we have an issue, as in that case, someone clearly favours stupid. ========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:01:00 -
[11]
Funny how they replace a lost ship lost to this known game mechanic and at the same time refuse to replace ships lost to the black screen of doom that may occur when you undock (a known bug as of recently, but I guess that we should avoid undocking). If this extending aggro is an exploit or not, this story suggests incompetence and very selective behaviour among GM's.
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Miilla
Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:02:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Miilla on 11/08/2010 12:02:53
Why don't I sound supprised. CCP staff caught helping other players scandal at 11!
I wish they would stop sending petition emails for every response to my real life email inbox. I now reply with an auto "DO NOT SPAM" response with gay male on male icelandic pron in the signiture.
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Zanaraxtarus
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: Xtreem
he choose to be kind.
And you just hit the root of the problem we have with this HORRIBLE lack of judgement and understanding of the EVE universe... EVE is hard! CCP advertises this game as a "harsh universe" Well, how harsh is a universe where you can say, "But I didn't know!!!" and get mistakes magically erased?? Try that the next time you run a stop sign...
--Zan-- Ban Mr. Richardson! [I was respectful there, I called him "Mr" and deleted the bad word] (quantity/quality studies do NOT apply to EVE. WoW, YES. EVE, NO!) |
K'Mahk
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:18:00 -
[14]
Edited by: K''Mahk on 11/08/2010 12:19:34
Originally by: Khors this story suggests incompetence and very selective behaviour among GM's.
You've never had to work with Customer Support departments or warranty claims from the service provider's point of view have you?
It usually goes like this... (non-specific claim) "I don't think it should have failed it isn't 'that' old" Leads to "No I don't have the Proof of Purchase, who keeps those anyway?" which leads to "We don't want to have this person causing us any more trouble, we'll replace their old machine (5-10 years old based on model of machine and damage) and just make them go away, their constant phone calls are going to cost us as much as the new machine."
Consistency isn't a constant in the Customer support industry, people tend to complain to newspapers when 'one rule for all' is actually followed.
Bigger thing is the fact that if a Mission runner got ganked and complained in this sub-forum that 'my ship wasn't replaced, big mean bully killed my loverly ship and took my ransom ISK anyway' 'CCP Big meanies for not replacing ship' you'd all be in here defending CCP!!! however, the ship was replaced, the mission runner did not cry, and you are now behaving like the bully, who having taken a smaller child's lollipop and stomped it into the mud and laughed at his impotent rage, screams that it's unfair when the child goes to it's mother, tells her what happened and asks (politely) for another lollipop and gets one. You are in here screaming and complaining because the missioner got something you don't think he should have gotten. If you are really so upset about this, get a dozen or so battleships together, warp into his mission, and Suicide gank his ship, 'cause that's a valid game mechanic.
Best I can see, the only people who lucked out on this whole incident are the other mission grinders trying to sell CNRs on the contracts market... one less customer for them.
Seriously guys, as you are so fond of saying, HTFU.
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Mo0seluffer
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zanaraxtarus
Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: Xtreem
he choose to be kind.
And you just hit the root of the problem we have with this HORRIBLE lack of judgement and understanding of the EVE universe... EVE is hard! CCP advertises this game as a "harsh universe" Well, how harsh is a universe where you can say, "But I didn't know!!!" and get mistakes magically erased?? Try that the next time you run a stop sign...
I ran a stop sign i didnt know about.Was completly honest with the officer about me never being in that area before.Didnt have insurance.And still recieved a warnig.Got my car back (which was 5 feet away from the police cruiser) and made my way to the next stargate (freeway onramp)...Honest mistake is honest.
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Count MonteCarlo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:28:00 -
[16]
i thought shooting wrecks to extend aggro has been an exploit for 2-3 years, I remember some dude losing a thanatos because of it once and made a big scene of it then ccp declared it as an exploit
which it should be
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Kavu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Count MonteCarlo i thought shooting wrecks to extend aggro has been an exploit for 2-3 years, I remember some dude losing a thanatos because of it once and made a big scene of it then ccp declared it as an exploit
which it should be
o/
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Richard Christy
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: K'Mahk Edited by: K''Mahk on 11/08/2010 11:42:24 Hmm..... Ninja tears...... how strange...
lol
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Zanaraxtarus
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:43:00 -
[19]
RE: Customer support dealings-
Originally by: K'Mahk
It usually goes like this... (non-specific claim) "I don't think it should have failed it isn't 'that' old" Leads to "No I don't have the Proof of Purchase, who keeps those anyway?" which leads to "We don't want to have this person causing us any more trouble, we'll replace their old machine (5-10 years old based on model of machine and damage) and just make them go away, their constant phone calls are going to cost us as much as the new machine."
Got my 40something'' t.v. turned into a 56'' that way
Originally by: K'Mahk you'd all be in here defending CCP!!!
Ummm... NO --Zan-- Ban Mr. Richardson! [I was respectful there, I called him "Mr" and deleted the bad word] (quantity/quality studies do NOT apply to EVE. WoW, YES. EVE, NO!) |
NoChance Lance
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:44:00 -
[20]
I'm not defending this one way or the other, but it does seem a little ambiguous that on one hand CCP says wrecks 'belong to no-one' and as such can be salvaged with no consequences, but on the other hand shooting wrecks created by someone else can extend the aggro timer. Could use some consistency and clarification to be honest. _______________________________________________ I'm not afraid of anything or anyone, unless they are wearing a mask. Diego Maradona 2010 |
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Zanaraxtarus
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mo0seluffer
Originally by: Zanaraxtarus
Originally by: Ressiv
Originally by: Xtreem
he choose to be kind.
And you just hit the root of the problem we have with this HORRIBLE lack of judgement and understanding of the EVE universe... EVE is hard! CCP advertises this game as a "harsh universe" Well, how harsh is a universe where you can say, "But I didn't know!!!" and get mistakes magically erased?? Try that the next time you run a stop sign...
I ran a stop sign i didnt know about.Was completly honest with the officer about me never being in that area before.Didnt have insurance.And still recieved a warnig.Got my car back (which was 5 feet away from the police cruiser) and made my way to the next stargate (freeway onramp)...Honest mistake is honest.
Proof that there are fail cops as well as fail CCP employees... It's illegal and you DO get ticketed for it, unless you get a pansy-ass cop or you're hot... --Zan-- Ban Mr. Richardson! [I was respectful there, I called him "Mr" and deleted the bad word] (quantity/quality studies do NOT apply to EVE. WoW, YES. EVE, NO!) |
Zanaraxtarus
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:50:00 -
[22]
Originally by: NoChance Lance I'm not defending this one way or the other, but it does seem a little ambiguous that on one hand CCP says wrecks 'belong to no-one' and as such can be salvaged with no consequences, but on the other hand shooting wrecks created by someone else can extend the aggro timer. Could use some consistency and clarification to be honest.
The SALVAGE inside the wreck belongs to no one.. The wreck itself (and the loot therein) belongs to the person(s) who created said wreck... Salvaging is not illegal because the act of salvaging creates something which did not exist before the salvager module succeeded in it's attempt to turn a wreck into salvage... A wreck should be though of as a container.. It belongs to no one.. The loot inside the container belongs to the person(s) who created the wreck.. The salvage belongs to no one until it is created.. Rules lawyering works in EVE too --Zan-- Ban Mr. Richardson! [I was respectful there, I called him "Mr" and deleted the bad word] (quantity/quality studies do NOT apply to EVE. WoW, YES. EVE, NO!) |
Xtreem
Gallente DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:55:00 -
[23]
in effect there needs to a rule one and for all.
you die under agro.. you die. eve is evil and harsh place.
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Mo0seluffer
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Posted - 2010.08.11 12:58:00 -
[24]
I ran a stop sign i didnt know about.Was completly honest with the officer about me never being in that area before.Didnt have insurance.And still recieved a warnig.Got my car back (which was 5 feet away from the police cruiser) and made my way to the next stargate (freeway onramp)...Honest mistake is honest.
Proof that there are fail cops as well as fail CCP employees... It's illegal and you DO get ticketed for it, unless you get a pansy-ass cop or you're hot...
Even more proof of why the world is the way it is now.Keep making excuses and dodging the reality of it all there Zanadoo.You cant keep modifing the mechanics or excuses.The whole wreck is no ones.Nor the loot inside.As you ninjas have always said.1st come 1st served.If the wreck is the OPS why no aggression when someone salvages it?CAUSE IT ISNT HIS!
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.08.11 13:04:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Skippermonkey on 11/08/2010 13:05:39
Originally by: Marlona Sky Suddenly Ninja tears, best tears. I love it when care bears grief you guys.
The kill in question has nothing to do with my corp, I just dont like that CCP are reimbursing ships lost due to combat. Avoidable combat at that.
Its obvious that the player undocked while he was under aggro, he confesses as much in his blog, as such why des he qualify for reimbursement?
Also, if it was 'deemed an exploit 3 years ago', as others have mentioned, there has been enough time to rectify the situation. It remains the same, so i guess its not an exploit. (Even more so with the recent stealth-patch to aggro extension now that the 'target' is aware his timer is being extended: also admitted to in the blog)
ALL this is about is consistent rulings in the game, like others have mentioned, if this sticks, why not reimburse ships lost to 'real' issues?
EDIT - Please dont bring the 'ownership of salvage' into question in this thread. That has been debated to death, and CCP has ruled consistently that salvage is a free for all and loot is not.
Originally by: CCP Capslock
OH GOD THE TESTING
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Captain Yifan
Shadows Of The Requiem Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.08.11 13:12:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Captain Yifan on 11/08/2010 13:14:08 This is rather a question of:
"is extending the aggro timer via the method of shooting wrecks an exploit or not?"
And I'd love to hear from CCP.
But unfortunately, reimburse after a totally legitemate kill is not a good start on the part of CCP.
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Cyberin
Misfit Toys
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Posted - 2010.08.11 13:25:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Count MonteCarlo i thought shooting wrecks to extend aggro has been an exploit for 2-3 years, I remember some dude losing a thanatos because of it once and made a big scene of it then ccp declared it as an exploit
which it should be
This is a good point, and something I always wonder about it. It was labelled an exploit not because you could extend aggro, but because the aggro timer for the other person didn't get updated...so they didn't KNOW they had aggro.
CCP fixed this...now they KNOW they have aggro. Why would they have fixed the timer and not removed the entire feature if it's an exploit?
I would really love to see a Dev response on this subject...it's something that is often used and really, really needs to be clarified.
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Richard Christy
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Posted - 2010.08.11 13:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: NoChance Lance I'm not defending this one way or the other, but it does seem a little ambiguous that on one hand CCP says wrecks 'belong to no-one' and as such can be salvaged with no consequences, but on the other hand shooting wrecks created by someone else can extend the aggro timer. Could use some consistency and clarification to be honest.
Very good point. Then again, logic has no place in Eve.
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Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.08.11 14:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Count MonteCarlo i thought shooting wrecks to extend aggro has been an exploit for 2-3 years, I remember some dude losing a thanatos because of it once and made a big scene of it then ccp declared it as an exploit
which it should be
because its so hard to look in local and see the guy still has aggro on you, amirite?
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Kneebone
Heathens' Harbor
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Posted - 2010.08.11 14:09:00 -
[30]
Must be nice, I lost mine a few weeks ago due to a bug in the client. GM that reviewed the case said "no trouble found" but they still recommended it over to a support GM to fix a problem that had no impact on the server, but directly resulted in my losing a ship.
I am a carebear, this person should not have gotten his ship back. It could just be that the purpose of your life is to server as a warning to others. |
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