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GM caves to reimbursment demand - Dangerous precedent set

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Kiritsubo Ritual Suicide	Posted - 2010.08.11 16:47:00 - [61] Edited by: Kiritsubo on 11/08/2010 16:47:57 Originally by: Tortugan CCP has classified shooting wrecks in the past as an exploit. Either link a conflicting devblog or GTFO. NO U! U show me devblog that piloting Vagabond not eXploitz! Seriously, saying something is an exploit and then putting the onus on me to prove it isn't is asking me to prove the negative. You show me the Devblog addressing aggro extension as an exploit.
OneTimeAt BannedSpank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.08.11 16:57:00 - [62] Originally by: Tortugan CCP has classified shooting wrecks in the past as an exploit. Either link a conflicting devblog or GTFO. ITT: Ninjas will only further prove they are literally pathetic. ~ One million alts cant be wrong.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.08.11 16:59:00 - [63] Edited by: Skippermonkey on 11/08/2010 17:01:58 ah, the usual C&P crowd has arrived, 3rd page though, a little late arent you? Making claims about what CCP has said without linking that statement is more useless than not commenting in the first place Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:01:00 - [64] I'll take the word of people that extending aggro like this is not considered an exploit, and in this light, he should not have gotten the CNR back. ( bad move on CCP there, though I can understand a DM having a little humanity, the guy waited for over an hour to undock ) I can fully see why people find this unfair, as many people have lost stuff to bugs/lag/whathaveyouthatisnotsupposedtohappen. The logic on the timer however, is something I find faulty as well. 1. MR shoots rats, makes wrecks 2. Ninja comes in and salvages wrecks, no problem. 3. Ninja takes loot from wrecks -> Ninja is flagged and can be agressed safely. HOWEVER! Doing so will initiate: 4. MR is agressed to Ninja, and Ninja can rightfully fight back for 15 minutes. Following this: 5. MR halfway in the fight decides it's a bad idea, and manages to escape and dock up. 6. MR sits in station to wait for the counter to go to 0 so he's safe again. Now for the non-logical part: 7 Ninja agresses the wrecks left behind( in a hurry, so no time to abandon ), causing the timer of the MR to extend while MR is not doing anything to agress the Ninja. LOGICALLY would be: 7 Ninja agresses wrecks, HIS timer that he can be shot at without concord interfering extends. Meanwhile, as the MR is not doing anything against the Ninja, the timer on the MR that the Ninja can shoot him keeps going down till it reaches 0, and the Ninja can no longer shoot him without concord getting **ed. Result 8 If MR undocks after said 15 minute time is up, he's safe from being shot at by the Ninja, conversely as the ninja has been playing with his wreck and extending the timer, the MR can go find the ninja and shoot at him without concord being ed. If he does so, HIS agression timer starts again, and the Ninja has another 15 minutes to shoot back without concord being **ed. As it stands, my opninion is that unless this is changed, extending the timer like this SHOULD be considered an exploit as the idea behind agression is bringing harm to someone in some way, aka shooting, stealing, whatnot. As the one who's timer is being extended by this 'trick' is not doing any of the above, his timer should not be extended.
OneTimeAt BannedSpank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:01:00 - [65] Got to sleep sometime. Originally by: Cyberin IÆm extremely upset that you got your ship back. You were killed by valid ingame tactics, and one that ninjas use every day. Extending aggro is not an exploit, nor is it cheating. It is a functioning game mechanicàif you shoot me, I extend aggro. Your aggression timer was still showingà.so you still KNEW that he could kill youàso you made two mistakes. You shot a ninja, and then you undocked when you KNEW he could kill you. I will be making my own petition to ask about this, as well as linking your blog here in C&P (hope you donÆt mindà) to see what others think about this. I have no qualms with people getting ships back if stuff was exploitedàbut in your case, there was no exploits usedàand you should NOT have gotten a ship back. Cry me a fcking river jesus christ literally babbies. Also lol ~ One million alts cant be wrong.
Alazontez Gallenteur Gallente Wolf-Monkey Bastards WolfMonkey Bastards	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:10:00 - [66] Only 1 comment to make to all those going on about a ninja being able to renew aggro indefinitely. Wrecks despawn after 2 hours. So there you go, there's the window. Not espousing support or condemnation for any parties involved, just pointing out a clearly overlooked detail. ---------------------------------------------- There is no honor in war, only victory and defeat Not needing a fleet and not bringing a fleet are 2 completely different things. - Lana Torrin
Kiritsubo Ritual Suicide	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:13:00 - [67] Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank Cry me a fcking river jesus christ literally babbies. Also lol Literally about ninjas.
Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:15:00 - [68] Best thing to do in this case is let the whining baby keep his CNR. However, slap him with a savage reprimand for publicising GM to Player communications, which is a clear breach of the rules. It was his own cluelessness and inability to understand game mechanics that got him killed. That's no problem but his. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
Hashpipe Malone	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:42:00 - [69] Originally by: Skippermonkey Originally by: Stibbins This mission runner was in my corp. For the record Leet Corp is about pvp, about taking it on the chin. I just kicked him out. When someone in my corp has an issue with another player I want them to bring it to his corp-mates, not petition it. This thread just got better how long till leetcorp is decked?
Donatien de'Sade Ars Notoria	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:45:00 - [70] Nearest i could find - Linky ----------------------------------------------------------- In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move

Cyberin Misfit Toys	Posted - 2010.08.11 17:45:00 - [71] Originally by: Hashpipe Malone Originally by: Skippermonkey Originally by: Stibbins This mission runner was in my corp. For the record Leet Corp is about pvp, about taking it on the chin. I just kicked him out. When someone in my corp has an issue with another player I want them to bring it to his corp-mates, not petition it. This thread just got better how long till leetcorp is decked? 48 hours i'd assume
debbie harrio	Posted - 2010.08.11 18:21:00 - [72] hehe, Bin Divers' tears, the best tears by far. This has been deemed an exploit and I am not too bothered to look for the devblog that states it, some people that know far more about the game also agree, just keep crying bin divers.
Velocity Prime Misfit Toys	Posted - 2010.08.11 18:36:00 - [73] Originally by: Hashpipe Malone Originally by: Skippermonkey Originally by: Stibbins This mission runner was in my corp. For the record Leet Corp is about pvp, about taking it on the chin. I just kicked him out. When someone in my corp has an issue with another player I want them to bring it to his corp-mates, not petition it. This thread just got better how long till leetcorp is decked? The vote is already in. We're recruiting! Visit my blog.
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.11 18:49:00 - [74] Edited by: Count MonteCarlo on 11/08/2010 18:50:09 Originally by: Awesome Possum i know only idiots care about aggression timers outside of hisec (the ONLY exception i can think of being small ships on a lowsec gate). or would you really look at your sec status and go "nah i didn't want that thanatos kill anyway." shooting the player, or anything left in space belonging to the player, extends your aggression timer to them. CCP did three* things to the game to keep this mechanic in place. (1) They fixed aggression timers on the wreck owners, to show the aggression is being refreshed. (2) They gave people the ability to ABANDON wrecks/cans left by them, so they could not be used against them. (3) This Worthless BOX!, yes I'm ****ing sure I want to undock! So tell me how this is still an exploit? aggro timer doesnt show in 0.0 like it does in empire, unless they changed it again when it involves getting your wrecks shot, not sure if you still can, but you used to be able kill some dudes by shooting their wrecks and camping them in long enough for them to want to log, some cap kills and super cap kills was produced by this, including the thanatos, there was no way for the thanatos to know that he would stay in space after logging tortugans post is accurate, and besides high sec pvpers are so risk averse that they're nearly if not as bad as mission runners
Awesome Possum Gallente Isk Relocation Services	Posted - 2010.08.11 20:01:00 - [75] Originally by: Count MonteCarlo Edited by: Count MonteCarlo on 11/08/2010 18:50:09 Originally by: Awesome Possum i know only idiots care about aggression timers outside of hisec (the ONLY exception i can think of being small ships on a lowsec gate). or would you really look at your sec status and go "nah i didn't want that thanatos kill anyway." shooting the player, or anything left in space belonging to the player, extends your aggression timer to them. CCP did three* things to the game to keep this mechanic in place. (1) They fixed aggression timers on the wreck owners, to show the aggression is being refreshed. (2) They gave people the ability to ABANDON wrecks/cans left by them, so they could not be used against them. (3) This Worthless BOX!, yes I'm **ing sure I want to undock! So tell me how this is still an exploit? aggro timer doesnt show in 0.0 like it does in empire, unless they changed it again when it involves getting your wrecks shot, not sure if you still can, but you used to be able kill some dudes by shooting their wrecks and camping them in long enough for them to want to log, some cap kills and super cap kills was produced by this, including the thanatos, there was no way for the thanatos to know that he would stay in space after logging Thanks for explaining that, seems obvious now its been said. I'd be willing to bet that was before the aggression timer change was put in. Now he'd be shown that the aggression was refreshed and he would not be allowed to log off safely just yet. This whole wreck shooting situation sucks more for cap pilots, than it does for MRs in high sec. The thanny's story doesn't change the fact that CCP has recently placed 3 changes that would have kept that CNR from being blown up if the pilot had been thinking for even a moment. The aggression timer refreshing when a wreck/can has been aggressed is just proof to me that its a viable tactic allowed by CCP and game mechanics. Quote: tortugans post is accurate, and besides high sec pvpers are so risk averse that they're nearly if not as bad as mission runners just cause some of you go small group roaming or solo a lot doesn't mean that everyone in null does, you know this statement could just as easily apply to most people in null. ** yeah tortugan v0v ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Andrea Skye Caldari The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.08.11 20:54:00 - [76] Ok, so after reading the blog, it sseems he was waiting out an agression timer. But it kept resetting (due to the ninja looter shooting his wreck). Stupidly he went out to play with it still on and ended up getting killed. It does seem like a bug, if it is all true (tho that kinda thing must of been in the game for ages so why havent CCP fixed it?) I wouldnt care so much about him getting reimbursed. But one time I got podded with high grade snakes. I was in warp (my logs even said I was warping to a belt) and somehow I got hit by artillery. I petitioned (I hardly erver petition anything, and I have a lost a whole ton of ships, so I wouldnt petition unless i think something unatural happened) But CCP basically just told me to ** off. Why does this guy get reimbursed, when he died to game MECHANICS and I get podded due to bull** and get told to gtfo.
Jones Bones Final Agony	Posted - 2010.08.11 21:10:00 - [77] Originally by: Andrea Skye Stuff Because CCP hates pirates.
Bryg Philomena Don't Taze Me Bro	Posted - 2010.08.11 21:11:00 - [78] Originally by: Jack Dant To be completely fair to the GMs, the reason why he got reinbursed was that his original aggro timer was extended for an hour, presumably by shooting wrecks. I guess this is the first step towards extending aggro being declared an exploit. I thought this WAS an exploit. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars??? Your signature
Atomik Harmonik	Posted - 2010.08.11 21:20:00 - [79] Originally by: Bryg Philomena Originally by: Jack Dant To be completely fair to the GMs, the reason why he got reinbursed was that his original aggro timer was extended for an hour, presumably by shooting wrecks. I guess this is the first step towards extending aggro being declared an exploit. I thought this WAS an exploit. Did you even bother reading the guy's blog? (and the CCP initial response therein?)
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.08.11 21:43:00 - [80] Originally by: Andrea Skye Ok, so after reading the blog, it sseems he was waiting out an agression timer. But it kept resetting (due to the ninja looter shooting his wreck). Stupidly he went out to play with it still on and ended up getting killed. It does seem like a bug, if it is all true (tho that kinda thing must of been in the game for ages so why havent CCP fixed it?) I wouldnt care so much about him getting reimbursed. But one time I got podded with high grade snakes. I was in warp (my logs even said I was warping to a belt) and somehow I got hit by artillery. I petitioned (I hardly erver petition anything, and I have a lost a whole ton of ships, so I wouldnt petition unless i think something unatural happened) But CCP basically just told me to ** off. Why does this guy get reimbursed, when he died to game MECHANICS and I get podded due to bull** and get told to gtfo. Did you escalate? It sounds like you might have gotten shafted by a low level. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!

Xenuria Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.08.11 23:13:00 - [81] Originally by: Skippermonkey Edited by: Skippermonkey on 11/08/2010 14:40:09 tl:dr MR loses CNR to a ninja while knowingly undocking with aggro still active, petitions loss, recieves a free CNR. ------- read these two blogs in order then tell me that CCP knows what they are doing. http://stabbedup.blogspot.com/2010/08/eve-stupid-stupid-stupid.html http://stabbedup.blogspot.com/2010/08/eve-exchange-of-views-with-ccp.html Official CCP response would be good; explaining the rationale behind rewarding the stupid Linky for original blog post regarding aforementioned stupid I looked at this thread title and expected intelligent and stimulating discussion. What I found was some toolbag that dosent know how eve works.
Awesome Possum Gallente Isk Relocation Services	Posted - 2010.08.11 23:43:00 - [82] Originally by: Xenuria I ... expected intelligent and stimulating discussion. In my C&P? ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.08.12 00:02:00 - [83] Thanks for the comment Xenuria, but if i really wanted to know what the special bus thought i would have asked you personally Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
debbie harrio	Posted - 2010.08.12 00:55:00 - [84] Originally by: Skippermonkey Thanks for the comment Xenuria, but if i really wanted to know what the special bus thought i would have asked you personally Are you STILL crying bin diver? get over it, you abused an exploit, the guy got reimbursed, carry on using it and then your tears will be real.
Wee Girl Amarr Misfit Toys	Posted - 2010.08.12 02:05:00 - [85] Originally by: debbie harrio get over it, you abused an exploit, the guy got reimbursed, carry on using it and then your tears will be real. Snicker. The sign of a carebear who didn't actually read the thread. Skippermonkey wasn't involved. :) But, this thread is fun. We should keep it going as long as we can...let's see....how to do that.... I know! But....it's not an exploit you moron. The guy lost his ship because he lost his patience and undocked with aggro. He had to have clicked "ok" when he got the pop-up warning him that he was still in combat and at risk if he undocked. I know, maybe we should introduce a second pop-up that says, "No, seriously dude. You're going to lose your faction-fit CNR if you undock! Are you REALLY sure you want to do this?"... It's kind of like getting the Concord "Dangerous Act" confirmation pop-up telling you that if you shoot that other ship Concord will own your ass, and then clicking "OK"... You then promptly get your ship blown up and you sure as hell won't get it back by filing a petition... GM's should have some discretion, but it does seem unfair that pilots who lose their ships to DCs, lag, bugs, etc. get nothing, and douches like this get reimbursed. I hope the GM in question is squirming a bit today. Wee
LittleTerror Sound Of Inevitability	Posted - 2010.08.12 02:40:00 - [86] Edited by: LittleTerror on 12/08/2010 02:42:30 Edited by: LittleTerror on 12/08/2010 02:40:23 @OP People petitioned their lose all the time after jumping into our gate camp, yet when we lose ships due to a real bug and not being a complete idiot GM's never replaced our ships, discuss that... Many times lag out losing nice ships to sentrys never replaced ever yet joe ****** has his new CNR the next day, only for us to kill again...
LittleTerror Sound Of Inevitability	Posted - 2010.08.12 02:45:00 - [87] Oh any sentrys sometimes apparently hit for over 8000 damage and that's a feature, again ship lose never replaced.
Srialia Misfit Toys	Posted - 2010.08.12 03:01:00 - [88] Edited by: Srialia on 12/08/2010 03:02:09 Edited by: Srialia on 12/08/2010 03:01:25 I'm halfway to believing this is an attempt to get back at the ganker the only way he can - by making him believe that his effort wasn't as painful for the mission runner as he thought. There's no proof of the reimbursement and the blogger posted an obvious troll response in this very thread. The fact that this ploy elicited a lot of collateral rage is just a bonus. So really, who wins here? Answer: griefers. Mission runner was griefed, so he comes up with a plan to counter-grief. A lot of "innocent" people get caught in the crossfire. So congratulations, Stibbins. You are now a griefer. One of us. Welcome.
LittleTerror Sound Of Inevitability	Posted - 2010.08.12 03:10:00 - [89] Dear ccp, OH BOOHOO I lagged out and lost my ship with billions in mods when doing one of your missions, everything just froze when I jumped into x system, so I logged out and when I logged back in I was in a pod... Dear player thank you for your evemail our logs show nothing but we give you a new ship anyway so you don't rage quit. Works fine tbh.
OneTimeAt BannedSpank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.08.12 03:10:00 - [90] ~ One million alts cant be wrong.



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