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Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:31:00 - [181] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 31/08/2010 22:32:07 Originally by: XXSketchxx Quote: Ok so you dont have spheres jettign away when grabbign an arrow, you always feel good on resizing spheres and looking for hits, you never have a sphere radius move when you wanted to move a whole sphere,... (lots more)! Do you have it happen or not? And its ok? No, this crap never happens to me. Maybe in the beginning when I was getting used to it but...after some refining you should become precise enough such that you don't do that anymore. Its a video game man, it requires some sort of coordination, believe it or not. Would you also complain that once in a while you miss shots in a first person shooter cause you miss clicked? While Eve may have great potential with spreadsheets, some minor mouse precision is required to play the game efficiently. What happens if you miss click a market order and put it up for a power 10 higher or lower? You going to blame the game? You left me speechless - it looks like I will fraps a session about it. We can then discuss on such a fraps video. Without it it apparently becomes pointless. Originally by: XXSketchxx As for your remarks about hostility, grow up. It doesn't make you sound tough, cool, or solidify your arguments. In fact it does the opposite, undermining your thoughts at every step (even the valid ones). I make it easy for ya: if its brown, laying on the ground, warm and stinks - by then it got a name. If you have issues to argue with someone calling things by their name, then why call it a discussion or argument anyways? - Troll is a Troll (not difficult) - A thread about 100-400 mill/hour income answered by someone that "its unfair how PI-people earn so much isk of 300Mill/week..." makes this person a Troll. - People trying to deny valid arguments due to proper use of grammar or spelling makes those people - guess what? A Troll. - The list goes on... You might call it hostile, I call it bull**** detector.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.31 22:36:00 - [182] Originally by: XXSketchxx I agree fully that no task should require strictly level 5 skills in an area to be effective. Anyone who says you should need Astrometrics rangefinding to lvl 5 to find the hardest sites is just a bitter elitist that probably trained the skill to that level pre-Apocrypha because back then, it was necessary. That sort of requirement is akin to saying you need Weapon specialization skills to lvl 5 to use T2 weapons. This is silly. Then please elaborate on that one. My answer before was: 1. lvl 4 skill + top notch equipment needed or 2. lvl 5 skills with low end equipment needed for the high end sites. In no case should lvl 3 skills be sufficient for finding high end sites. Right now you do find all high end sites with lvl 3 skills and top notch equipment. Thats wrong.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.31 23:08:00 - [183] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 31/08/2010 23:10:46 Originally by: Daergaar Edited by: Daergaar on 31/08/2010 20:10:48 Originally by: XXSketchxx I would like to emphasize though that it is an MMO. There are some things that a single "character" should not be able to do alone. 10/10 plexes are one such thing. I agree fully that no task should require strictly level 5 skills in an area to be effective. Anyone who says you should need Astrometrics rangefinding to lvl 5 to find the hardest sites is just a bitter elitist that probably trained the skill to that level pre-Apocrypha because back then, it was necessary. That sort of requirement is akin to saying you need Weapon specialization skills to lvl 5 to use T2 weapons. This is silly. I agree here. Since it's an MMO, 2 people or more should be required for a 10/10 plex or some of the harder sites. W-space is actually a great example of this. It's MAYBE possible to solo some C4 sites, but they usually need a small gang at least. C5 and C6 absolutely require a fleet or gang and there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe what's needed is that the 10/01 DED sites should be harder combat-wise, about the same difficulty as a C5 sleeper site. Then it would be impossible to solo them no matter what, even with 2 accounts. The loot should increase accordingly. The whole risk vs reward equation is out of line. Examples: 1. Mul-Zatah Monastery vs Provisional Blood Outpost (same loot in the end). Mul-Zatah is a 8 minute plex, last escalation of Provisional Outpost is a death trap (compared to Monastery) 2. Angel Annex vs. Angel Fortress - gimme a break! The boss in Angel Fortress is some crazy stuff, whereas Angel Annex is almost easy. Same loot... 3. Blood Annex vs Angel Annex - dont compare its laughable! Angel Annex = heavy dps vs a lot of resists; deathtrap. Blood Annex = 14 minute trip to Corpus C-type stuff, farming never was that easy. 4. Crimson Hand vs Minor Blood Annex - we shouldnt compare those, except they drop loot of similar quality! Only difference? Crimson Hand drops more reliably the loot which is worth more isks. Minor Blood Annex is a death trap incarnate until you learn to handle the triggers (standby for losses until you do). Whereas Crimson Hand (remember? Loot is more valuable here...),.. whereas Crimson Hand is 45 minutes of boredom only to see the Crimson Lord run away from his own men to be slughtered by the player. (Yes, I know some people with 2 accounts do it in almost 20 minutes). 5. Minor Angel Annex vs Minor Blood Annex - the only one where it seems to fit together, except Minor Blood Annex needs slightly more neut and dps on the 2nd and 3rd wave (in both rooms) to make it even... Gimme a break! Finding the sites and risk vs reward are plain out of whack here. It starts with scanning these sites being too easy (eg. "easy sites" should be more difficult to scan) and it doesnt stop with ships making exploration too easy (namely T3). A proper fit Tengu can run most sites and be invulnerable(TM) in nullsec even. Some sites are killers be it dp-wise or time-wise, where you need forever to kill the spawn or need to jet around half eve-verse to finish it. Compare that to their DED-counterparts... sorry, laughable. My bottom line: This deserves a seperate thread. invulnerable(TM) = 1. cant be affected by untargeted warp scrambling - check interdiction nullifier 2. cant be targeted at all as long as player got skill - check covert ops 3. can field a mean tank - check 500+ dp tank (and much more with DS stuff) with Cov Ops 4. can field some mean dps - check 500+ dps (and much more with DS stuff) with Cov Ops (we could run it similar for unprobeable Tengu, but am too tired for it)
Brannor McThife Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients	Posted - 2010.09.01 02:09:00 - [184] OMG. This whining STILL going on? Dear Lord. Everyone... please stop talking to Elena. Heck, I might just start a collection to add a prize for someone to gank & pod Elena repeatedly ingame... just to give him/her something else to whine about. This thread is nothing more than one person's rant at the game at anyone that has a different opinion. Seriously, move on, do not feed the troll more. -G
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 04:33:00 - [185] Originally by: Brannor McThife OMG. This whining STILL going on? Dear Lord. Everyone... please stop talking to Elena. Heck, I might just start a collection to add a prize for someone to gank & pod Elena repeatedly ingame... just to give him/her something else to whine about. This thread is nothing more than one person's rant at the game at anyone that has a different opinion. Seriously, move on, do not feed the troll more. -G Trolls talk or was it cutn paste from a website?
Ankbar	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:37:00 - [186] Originally by: Elena Vherokia In no case should lvl 3 skills be sufficient for finding high end sites. Right now you do find all high end sites with lvl 3 skills and top notch equipment. Thats wrong. I'm confused about this part. I had read other threads about scanning strength, and they had said that the strength needed to get all sites to 100% was either 96+ or 103+, I don't remember. Either way, I just got in EFT and put Sister Probe Launcher and Sister Probes in an Ananthema with III in Covert Ops and all the Astrometric <blank> skills. And I got 94.47(snip). IF the other threads were correct, this is not enough.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:46:00 - [187] Originally by: Ankbar Originally by: Elena Vherokia In no case should lvl 3 skills be sufficient for finding high end sites. Right now you do find all high end sites with lvl 3 skills and top notch equipment. Thats wrong. I'm confused about this part. I had read other threads about scanning strength, and they had said that the strength needed to get all sites to 100% was either 96+ or 103+, I don't remember. Either way, I just got in EFT and put Sister Probe Launcher and Sister Probes in an Ananthema with III in Covert Ops and all the Astrometric <blank> skills. And I got 94.47(snip). IF the other threads were correct, this is not enough. Above is a keyword highlighted. If you now add top notch equipment including implants you will see 139.07855 scan strength. That is by far enough for all sites.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 14:50:00 - [188] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 01/09/2010 14:50:17 And here a link to nice thread which lists how easy scanning is. Those few readers who didnt try to Troll here might realize how there are players who dont want their "easy life" taken away. Scanning sites is too easy - simple as that. By now I even add: even for WHs its too easy. PS: took me long to realize how much people know it is too easy but dont want their toy tweaked.
Ankbar	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:17:00 - [189] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Originally by: Ankbar I'm confused about this part. I had read other threads about scanning strength, and they had said that the strength needed to get all sites to 100% was either 96+ or 103+, I don't remember. Either way, I just got in EFT and put Sister Probe Launcher and Sister Probes in an Ananthema with III in Covert Ops and all the Astrometric <blank> skills. And I got 94.47(snip). IF the other threads were correct, this is not enough. Above is a keyword highlighted. If you now add top notch equipment including implants you will see 139.07855 scan strength. That is by far enough for all sites. Ah, I didn't think of implants. So... Yes and No. I still got enough, but I come up with 103.92. Not sure how you got 130+, but 103+ is certainly enough.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 15:45:00 - [190] Originally by: Ankbar Ah, I didn't think of implants. So... Yes and No. I still got enough, but I come up with 103.92. Not sure how you got 130+, but 103+ is certainly enough. I have no idea how you made 103.92 when using all implants lvl 3 skills in all departments of exploration (incl. cov ops) + implants = 139.07855 scan strength on sister scan probes.
Ankbar	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:31:00 - [191] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Originally by: Ankbar Ah, I didn't think of implants. So... Yes and No. I still got enough, but I come up with 103.92. Not sure how you got 130+, but 103+ is certainly enough. I have no idea how you made 103.92 when using all implants lvl 3 skills in all departments of exploration (incl. cov ops) + implants = 139.07855 scan strength on sister scan probes. All implants? What is there besides the Prospector PPH-2? Oh, just found the Virtue set. Understand now. TBH, though, to me, if someone wants to trade this amount of ISKies (for equip/implants) instead of time (training to V), that's okay with me. Two different kinds of investments, but they both took investments. Heck, you can blow up people's ships and pods, but you can't take away skill. (Well, as long as they have their clone updated.)
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:36:00 - [192] Originally by: Ankbar TBH, though, to me, if someone wants to trade this amount of ISKies (for equip/implants) instead of time (training to V), that's okay with me. Two different kinds of investments, but they both took investments. Heck, you can blow up people's ships and pods, but you can't take away skill. (Well, as long as they have their clone updated.) TBH not this way, more like this: 1. lvl4 skills plus top notch equipment = all sites, fine with me 2. lvl 5 skills + average equipment = all sites, fine with me 3. lvl 5 + top equipment = all sites easily, cool with me lvl 3 skills + equipment = expert doesnt exist in any other EvE skill, thats not ok.
Ankbar	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:06:00 - [193] Edited by: Ankbar on 01/09/2010 17:07:56 Originally by: Elena Vherokia PPS: the cost for a virtue set is what I make on a lucky evening, so its hardly a lot of isk. But as you have said, you are not a low-SP character, you've been around for a while. So you aren't having "lucky evening[s]" in the kind of places where a newb would be running. I doubt a newb--who is going to be buying ships, replacing ships, upgrading equipment, buying the heafty skill books, etc--is going to easily come up with this kind of ISK. I haven't looked at the cost of Virtues since I just realized they existed, so my guess may be wrong, but I'd be surprised if they were cheap. edit: and if they are cheap, I can't wait to log in!
Daergaar Caldari Yama Seki	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:10:00 - [194] When you're in a proper combat ship, you don't have the luxury of fitting probing implants, nor expanded probe launchers. Any sites that are possible to solo should be possible to scan down alone with a combat ship and not a probing ship. Non-soloable sites should require a probing ship. The actual difficulty of the sites is another discussion for another thread. Wormholes are not too easy to scan down. C5 and C6 wormholes are harder to scan down than C4 and below. I think that's just fine. If you're going into a C1 or C2, you're probably going in alone, thus you MUST fit a probe launcher. You'll be in a combat ship and won't be able to fit an expanded probe launcher without seriously gimping yourself, which you can't afford to do against sleepers. People who are newer to the game or have lower skills shouldn't be shut out from doing basic wormholes and up to 5/10 DED sites. I shouldn't have to invest in a Tengu to do that either, I should be able to do it in my Drake (which I currently can). I've been playing for 2 years and a bit, and I've only recently trained probing. It's a good thing for strictly combat pilots to be able to branch off and do other stuff without too much trouble.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:19:00 - [195] Originally by: Elena Vherokia PPS: the cost for a virtue set is what I make on a lucky evening, so its hardly a lot of isk. àand how much is that again? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:32:00 - [196] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Elena Vherokia PPS: the cost for a virtue set is what I make on a lucky evening, so its hardly a lot of isk. àand how much is that again? I am sure the greedy aspect of yours already looked it up :D
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:32:00 - [197] Originally by: Elena Vherokia I am sure the greedy aspect of yours already looked it up :D I want the number from you. How much? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:39:00 - [198] Originally by: Daergaar When you're in a proper combat ship, you don't have the luxury of fitting probing implants, nor expanded probe launchers. Any sites that are possible to solo should be possible to scan down alone with a combat ship and not a probing ship. Non-soloable sites should require a probing ship. The actual difficulty of the sites is another discussion for another thread. Wormholes are not too easy to scan down. C5 and C6 wormholes are harder to scan down than C4 and below. I think that's just fine. If you're going into a C1 or C2, you're probably going in alone, thus you MUST fit a probe launcher. You'll be in a combat ship and won't be able to fit an expanded probe launcher without seriously gimping yourself, which you can't afford to do against sleepers. People who are newer to the game or have lower skills shouldn't be shut out from doing basic wormholes and up to 5/10 DED sites. I shouldn't have to invest in a Tengu to do that either, I should be able to do it in my Drake (which I currently can). I've been playing for 2 years and a bit, and I've only recently trained probing. It's a good thing for strictly combat pilots to be able to branch off and do other stuff without too much trouble. Your post is ambigious: 1. 6/10 sites are meant to not be soloable (stated by CCP) yet they can be easily scanned down by means of a non-bonused ship without implants in lowsec and even easier in nullsec (ofc). 2. People newer to the game should be shut out from 5/10 and upwards so we only disagree on the breakign point (5/10 or 6/10). Shut out aka by difficulty of the site itself. 3. Scanning sites is too easy :) I am aware I repeat myself. Lvl3 skills + top notch equipment in a non-combat ship scans everything; lvl3 skill + less than 1 Bill equipment scans almost anything;... Thats far off. Saying that an expanded probe launcher gimps a ship is simply not true: SOME ships are gimped by fitting an expanded probe launcher (eg Tengu or Legion or Proteus esspecially with sentry dmg aug :D) ; quite a lot of ships dont care for expanded probe launcher or not. Its not only the ships you fly - there are more ships.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:42:00 - [199] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Elena Vherokia I am sure the greedy aspect of yours already looked it up :D I want the number from you. How much? I am sorry, I just suffer from heavy Amnesia (else I wouldnt even answer you ;) - we know each other better than you can imagine right now)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:46:00 - [200] Originally by: Elena Vherokia I am sorry, I just suffer from heavy Amnesia (else I wouldnt even answer you ;) - we know each other better than you can imagine right now) What's the number? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:47:00 - [201] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Elena Vherokia I am sorry, I just suffer from heavy Amnesia (else I wouldnt even answer you ;) - we know each other better than you can imagine right now) What's the number? am too shy, tell me hunny
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:49:00 - [202] Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 17:49:33 Originally by: Elena Vherokia am too shy, tell me hunny So you're just lying. You just threw it out there to sound cool and 1337. In light of that: have you ever probed? In the old system or the new one? Sounds like a big "no" to meà So what are you whinging about? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:54:00 - [203] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 01/09/2010 17:55:01 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 17:49:33 Originally by: Elena Vherokia am too shy, tell me hunny So you're just lying. You just threw it out there to sound cool and 1337. In light of that: have you ever probed? In the old system or the new one? Sounds like a big "no" to meà So what are you whinging about? Ohhh noes the lvl 3-4 exploration professional Tippia doubts that I can use contracts in EvE and read them. And now the Tippia Troll (eve search reveals more than 10 ops in different topics calling her that way)... and now Tippia doubts I can do exploration, because I didnt proove it to the Tippia Troll. I suggest: stop fapping, in your case it hurts your brain.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:58:00 - [204] Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 17:58:56 Originally by: Elena Vherokia Ohhh noes the lvl 3-4 exploration professional Tippia doubts that I can use contracts in EvE and read them. Why would you want to use contracts? You don't have a clue, do youà Quote: And now the Tippia Troll (eve search reveals more than 10 ops in different topics calling her that way)... Because I prove their bull**** for what it is, and like you, they don't like it and hope that calling me a troll will make it aaaall go away and suddenly make their fantasies reality. It never happens. So: what's the price of a full virtue set? You should know this, seeing as how you can earn that in an eveningà àor is it that you know where this line of inquiry is going and you're afraid that it will expose something else you want to hide? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Ankbar	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:05:00 - [205] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 17:49:33 Originally by: Elena Vherokia am too shy, tell me hunny So you're just lying. You just threw it out there to sound cool and 1337. If you make a claim, be able and willing to back it up. Otherwise keep it to yourself. No better than a little elementary kid claiming to know something, and then when you ask them to reveal they say, "I'm not going to tell you!" Because in truth, they never knew, they only wanted to seem important/smart/etc. You have made statements which hinge on the cost of Virtues. What you may think is cheap someone else may think is expensive, or vice versa, so your subjective claim is insufficient. Provide a number to back your claim.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:09:00 - [206] Originally by: Ankbar Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 17:49:33 Originally by: Elena Vherokia am too shy, tell me hunny So you're just lying. You just threw it out there to sound cool and 1337. If you make a claim, be able and willing to back it up. Otherwise keep it to yourself. No better than a little elementary kid claiming to know something, and then when you ask them to reveal they say, "I'm not going to tell you!" Because in truth, they never knew, they only wanted to seem important/smart/etc. You have made statements which hinge on the cost of Virtues. What you may think is cheap someone else may think is expensive, or vice versa, so your subjective claim is insufficient. Provide a number to back your claim. So whats your issue? That a lucky day of pro-exploration yields 2.5+ Bill on lucky evenings? Happens therefore the cost of virtue sets are not really an issue. Claiming it is just shows that there are peopel in this thread who dont know what I am posting about. Hence I call some Trolls, who still post and dont get it. Reality check.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:22:00 - [207] Edited by: Tippia on 01/09/2010 19:23:28 Originally by: Elena Vherokia So whats your issue? That, as mentioned all the back at the beginning, your complaint boils down to you wanting to protect your easy-mode, and is upset that you now have competition. I'll grant you that complaining about a new "easy mode" is a very clever way of arguing for the preservation of your own, but at least be honest about it. àoh, and if you believe that what you're doing still counts as "pro exploration" then, as also mentioned, you're not really all that tuned into the new realities of the game. The problem isn't the system ù it's with you being stuck in the past and thinking that nothing has changed. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:24:00 - [208] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Elena Vherokia So whats your issue? That, as mentioned all the back at the beginning, your complaint boils down to you wanting to protect your easy-mode, and is upset that you now have competition. I'll grant you that complaining about a new "easy mode" is a very clever way of arguing for the preservation of your own, but at least be honest about it. Trolls make up arguments - hence why I call you a Troll. I say: its overall too easy. Its true so dont complain boi.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:29:00 - [209] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Trolls make up arguments If you say so, troll. Quote: I say: its overall too easy. àand the point you keep missing is: so what? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 19:36:00 - [210] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Elena Vherokia Trolls make up arguments If you say so, troll. Quote: I say: its overall too easy. àand the point you keep missing is: so what? So what for you :) You maybe didnt realize: this thread never was about you. Hard for your ego I know.

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