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Spineker Caldari Chain of Dogs	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:11:00 - [31] Your T2 comparison is quite inaccurate. No it isn't there were tons of skills people maxed out to be very good at exploration. Specialized equipment, ships, skill sets, gear, knowledge. Now it is clumsy dumbed down and boring. With no reward hardly. "Worked hard"? How? By waiting a lot? Pffà If that is the best you can come up with I dare say right here and now YOU NEVER used the old system. Scanning time was never an issue with me, if anything annoying about it wasnt scan time but warp time scanning was part of the fun, not knowing what was going to happen getting a hit. I could plan out my exploration, know exactly where I was going in low-sec and know exactly the dangers involved then hit the systems I wanted scann down my Radar site in 20 mins or so raid it and move on. But there were many things you had to be able to do in order to succeed at that. Sure scanning was hard waiting is bad? Funnily enough. a level playing field means you have to work harder to get what you want. Work harder? no you mean you dumb it down so it is no longer interesting or profitable.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:13:00 - [32] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Which is ok so far. But it isnt ok if this means to have aspects which "worked" completly changed and/or drastically reduced in difficulty. Why not? Quote: Those changes all together paint one picture: EvE is becomign easy mode all of a sudden without telling anyone. So what? Quote: That deserves the question: why oh why? Because, again, you're not looking at what the scanning system is meant to be used for ù you're looking at the kids' stuff and complaining that it's easy. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Spineker Caldari Chain of Dogs	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:15:00 - [33] So what? That says everything. So what? Reminds me of society thinking winning is wrong and everyone should be equal losers.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Spineker So what? That says everything. Yes, it does. It says "welcome to a new game where you actually have competition for the goods, and where you have to earn your rewards." It's a good thing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:34:00 - [35] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 21:35:26 Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 21:34:52 Originally by: Tippia <snip> Tippia: Please, please leave it as it is now - Id have to think to use a different one - please... Elena Vherokia: Dont worry you wont loose easy mode - CCP has its reasons for sure. All I asked was: Why oh why? Elena Vherokia: So? Why?
Dolm De'Mourne	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:48:00 - [36] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 21:35:26 Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 21:34:52 Originally by: Tippia <snip> Tippia: Please, please leave it as it is now - Id have to think to use a different one - please... Elena Vherokia: Dont worry you wont loose easy mode - CCP has its reasons for sure. All I asked was: Why oh why? Elena Vherokia: So? Why? From your explanation of the old system it seems the only active part of the scanning was the initial placement of the probe which would involve actually warping to the spot to leave them. Then you may have to scan several times to see what was there, and that process was much longer. Again, why is that better? Currently the skills help you lock at higher scan radii through stronger scan strength, scan faster, and reduce the "lying" your probes do. Why is just waiting through several long scan cycles for chance "smarter?"
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:50:00 - [37] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 21:35:26 Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 21:34:52 Originally by: Tippia <snip> Tippia: Please, please leave it as it is now - Id have to think to use a different one - please... Elena Vherokia: Dont worry you wont loose easy mode - CCP has its reasons for sure. All I asked was: Why oh why? Elena Vherokia: So? Why? Here's why: The old system was a dismally boring abortion that was never used by anybody but the most die hard of masochists and, as a general rule, having systems in the game that aren't considered worthwhile to use by the vast majority of the population is bad design. Additionally, allow me to burst your bubble: Feel free to spare us any more of your idiotic and disingenuous elitism. There was nothing difficult about the old system. Not even a little bit. Time consuming? Sure. Difficult? Only if you're the type of person who struggles with tying their own shoelaces. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Svekke Minmatar The Shepards	Posted - 2010.08.19 22:08:00 - [38] I don't see your point either. There are currently exploration sites which simple can not be scanned down unless you have lev 4+ in most scanning skills, use faction gear, cov ops ship and even then some still require an implant to increase your scanning strength even further. Try a 10/10 ded site for example. Then ofcourse these sites only exist in lowsec and mostly nullsec, which I doubt you ever went to. Or maybe you did go down there and got podded by someone probing you down who you reckon had low skills. Even for that there is a fix! Reprocess your drake and buy a unprobable tengu.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.19 22:34:00 - [39] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 22:39:19 My Dear Mr NewBie or Svekke, just because you are that wise: Originally by: Svekke Edited by: Svekke on 19/08/2010 22:22:56 I don't see your point either. There are currently exploration sites which simple can not be scanned down unless you have lev 4+ in most scanning skills, use faction gear, cov ops ship and even then some still require an implant to increase your scanning strength even further. Funnily those high end sites are for the most part not worth it. Interesting sites are: - average difficulty in lowsec and - easy in nullsec Revenue/risk/hour in 6/10 or 7/10 (or comparable non DED sites) >>>>> 10/10 (or comparable sites like military complex etc.) Since you dont know that, I doubt your expertise - sounds more like a clueless babble you brought up. Originally by: Svekke Try a 10/10 ded site for example. Your point? Been there done it - not worth it. Originally by: Svekke 10/10 sites also require leadership 5 and a bit of social skills(real ones) if I remember correctly. But then again you do your scanning and exploration alone. You obviously have no clue about the return and/or revenue of 10/10s compared to other sites. Why dont you learn exploring before you babble such obvious bs?
Spineker Caldari Chain of Dogs	Posted - 2010.08.19 22:36:00 - [40] Edited by: Spineker on 19/08/2010 22:41:08 Before you edited Svvek I was going to ask who would want to find a 10/10 DED site anyway? Exploring was always solo event for me, more money. Now it is just a waste of time and energy. As for lowsec when exploring came out .3 systems and .2 where the most profitable per hour systems to explore in. 00 was ok if you had a gang but then it was less profits. Anyway I was never even remotely close to being podded nor did I ever lose an CovOps Anethema which Covops was the only way to seriously explore.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.19 22:47:00 - [41] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 22:49:55 Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Additionally, allow me to burst your bubble: Feel free to spare us any more of your idiotic and disingenuous elitism. There was nothing difficult about the old system. Not even a little bit. Time consuming? Sure. Difficult? Only if you're the type of person who struggles with tying their own shoelaces. Moving around your probes inside spheres aka bubbles - thats exactly what you do in the "new exploration" system. Dont complain at my bursting bubbles when its yours - mmkkay? --- We now heard those for the most part who made it obvious they need "easy mode". Now maybe a sane answer? Why oh why?
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.08.19 22:59:00 - [42] Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 19/08/2010 23:02:46 A reason was given: Virtually nobody liked the old system. A lot of people like the new one. Systems that are universally disliked are bad. A universally disliked system was replaced with one that a large portion of the population now participates in. We get that you liked feeling as if you were somehow part of a small, elite group with the wherewithal to watch endless timer countdowns. Tough ****. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Spineker Caldari Chain of Dogs	Posted - 2010.08.19 23:12:00 - [43] Yes I would rather be elite something wrong with that? Success? Oh I see others want it to be handed to them, its called entitlement generations.
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.08.19 23:22:00 - [44] Originally by: Spineker Yes I would rather be elite something wrong with that? Success? Oh I see others want it to be handed to them, its called entitlement generations. You must have missed the sarcasm - there was nothing elite about sitting on your ass watching a timer tick down. It was boring, bad design - and it was improved upon greatly. There is nothing difficult about the new system, but there wasn't anything difficult about the old one, either. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. What you really don't like is that more people use the system now. You're basically like those hipster types who hate any band that more than 40 people have heard of. HTFU --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Svekke Minmatar The Shepards	Posted - 2010.08.19 23:43:00 - [45] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 22:51:52 My Dear Mr NewBie or Svekke, Originally by: Svekke 10/10 sites also require leadership 5 and a bit of social skills(real ones) if I remember correctly. But then again you do your scanning and exploration alone. You obviously have no clue about the return and/or revenue of 10/10s compared to other sites. Why dont you learn exploring before you babble such obvious bs? You obviously have no clue that MMORPG means massively "multiplayer" online rpg and that some people like to play it for fun with "friends". If the only thing that matters to you is your ammount of isk/hr you pull in I'd suggest you go and run missions. I actually do like to run 10/10 sites and I don't care about revenue or anything like that, aslong as I had a laugh. Just as much as I like to tackle drone sites or mine all the veldspar in a mission or combat site. And if having fun at what I do makes me a "NewBie" then fine, I am a "NewBie", atleast I'm not stressed out if I don't get my daily shot of isk. Have you ever tried PI? A "NewBie" with one week worth of skills can make about 300 mil per week by doing "clickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclickclick". How is that fair? I'll bother with return and revenue in real life, where it actually matters. Kisses from your greatest fan! xxxx Svekke
Kyle Sucks Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.08.20 01:02:00 - [46] Originally by: SurrenderMonkey You're basically like those hipster types who hate any band that more than 40 people have heard of. QFT.
Vilgan Mazran Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.08.20 02:02:00 - [47] LoL at OP. Yes, we all miss a boring system that required no player involvement. Not. Only people who never scan think astrometrics 5 is useless now. Only n00bs or people that don't scan pvp targets think high skills/implants/sisters stuff/etc are useless. Go back to the land of bitter vets who don't play, you weren't missed.
Siamese Kitten	Posted - 2010.08.20 02:08:00 - [48] requests a moderator lock for excessive OP trolling
K'racker Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.08.20 04:17:00 - [49] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Originally by: K'racker vs Elena Vherokia no charges: before you had to manage cargo and stuff, now you jsut recall and have **loads of probes how is having to carry 17 different kind of probes better than just one?** It wasnt 17 types ;) - claiming it was plain isnt true. But instead you couldnt recall probes so you had to use new ones - therefore cargo management for probes was an issue. Limitations are imho a good thing - yes. as i recall for exploration there were 4 different sensor type probes (grav,mag,ladar,radar) x 4 different ranges = 16 + one multi-spec. plz correct me.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.20 05:25:00 - [50] Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2010 05:31:52 Originally by: Elena Vherokia Tippia: Please, please leave it as it is now - Id have to think to use a different one - please... Elena Vherokia: Dont worry you wont loose easy mode - CCP has its reasons for sure. All I asked was: Why oh why? Elena Vherokia: So? Why? Incorrect. Elena: Onoz, I can't handle competition, and my AFK income is gone! Tippis: Yes, so what? Elena: Whaaaaa! Tippis: So what? Elena: DON'T WANNA WORK!! Tippis: So what? You still haven't explained why this is a bad thing. Your question was answered almost immediately: because it is aimed towards a new kind of exploration that you don't know about and haven't engage in, which makes you entirely unsuited to make any kind of comment about how it works. It's also infinitely better than the old one since it relies on player skill rather than appeasing the RNG god; it relies on active participation, rather than waiting around; it relies on research, rather than hoping for the best. The old system wasn't "hard" ù it was mind-numbing, which is why you didn't have to deal with the competition. Now, it's actually usable and (gulp!) it involves gameplay, so more people engage in it. If you can't handle the increased competition this creates, then that's something lacking on your part, not with the system. The mere fact that it yields these kinds of "onoz! I have to compete" outbursts from the lazy and complacent shows that not only was the change dearly needed ù it is working beautifully. Quote: We now heard those for the most part who made it obvious they need "easy mode". Now maybe a sane answer? No we haven't. Or rather, yes ù we've heard a lot of kvetching from those of you who desperately miss your AFK easy mode, but you haven't actually presented any argument why it should be brought back; why you don't want to work for your stuff; why you can't handle competition. You also haven't explained how it would benefit the new exploration environment (where, btw, you're still playing in the kiddie pool ù maybe that's why you find it too easy? Go out and try the real "grown-up" stuff). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.20 06:04:00 - [51] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 20/08/2010 06:06:03 Originally by: Svekke Edited by: Svekke on 19/08/2010 23:57:51 Originally by: Elena Vherokia Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 22:51:52 My Dear Mr NewBie or Svekke, Originally by: Svekke 10/10 sites also require leadership 5 and a bit of social skills(real ones) if I remember correctly. But then again you do your scanning and exploration alone. You obviously have no clue about the return and/or revenue of 10/10s compared to other sites. Why dont you learn exploring before you babble such obvious bs? You obviously have no clue that MMORPG means massively "multiplayer" online rpg and that some people like to play it for fun with "friends". If the only thing that matters to you is your ammount of isk/hr you pull in I'd suggest you go and run missions. <snip> Then there was a mentally 13-year old, who thinks he knows the correct drawer for each player... If you want to Troll do it - but do it right.
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.20 06:11:00 - [52] Originally by: Vilgan Mazran LoL at OP. Yes, we all miss a boring system that required no player involvement. Not. Only people who never scan think astrometrics 5 is useless now. Only n00bs or people that don't scan pvp targets think high skills/implants/sisters stuff/etc are useless. learn2read Saves you from the hazzle of people laughing at the fool you are. Simply since I wrote nothign of what you told above in this thread.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.20 06:12:00 - [53] Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2010 06:14:35 Originally by: Elena Vherokia Then there was a mentally 13-year old, who thinks he knows the correct drawer for each player... So you agree, then, since you can't think of a single counter-argument and have to go straight for the ad hominem. Good. Then it's settled. Quote: Simply since I wrote nothign of what you told above in this thread. You mean apart from the bit where you said you didn't need skills any more, and certainly not Astro V? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.08.20 06:32:00 - [54] Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 20/08/2010 06:32:48 Originally by: Tippia You mean apart from the bit where you said you didn't need skills any more, and certainly not Astro V? Since you fail at scrolling one page back: Originally by: Elena Vherokia Astro 5 made sense for the old system - diminishing returns - still made sense. The usefullness of Astro 5 for DS probes is just low, except when looking in one specific sig range only (and even then you got too much trash on scanner too). So far it seems people answered who either cant read or who try to Troll a rant. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To refresh those who cba'd to read the whole thread: - The current system puts the physically disabled on a huge disadvantage (rl). This esspecially applies to colors/contrast and hand-eye-coordination. Its the worst part ever done in usability by CCP. (please only comment on this one if you really did probing for some time and stop trolling this part) - The current system is too easy on the high income/high return exploration sites. Anyone with low skills can directly do those. The return of high-end skills in exploration has been killed. - The greates difficulty in the new system is to drag spheres aka bubbles (which dont like to be dragged :P ) - For PvP the new system feels good apart from usability and its clumsiness. Question: Why not update the old system but instead create a new windows 1.0 system? Why oh why?
Una Achura	Posted - 2010.08.20 08:26:00 - [55] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 20/08/2010 06:42:33 Originally by: Elena Vherokia Astro 5 made sense for the old system - diminishing returns - still made sense. The usefullness of Astro 5 for DS probes is just low, except when looking in one specific sig range only (and even then you got too much trash on scanner too). Too much trash in results? Sounds like you fail at maiking filters then... Quote: So far it seems people answered who either cant read or who try to Troll a rant. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To refresh those who cba'd to read the whole thread (updated thread start post): - The current system puts the physically disabled on a huge disadvantage (rl). This esspecially applies to colors/contrast and hand-eye-coordination. Its the worst part ever done in usability by CCP. (please only comment on this one if you really did probing for some time and stop trolling this part) The contrasts are bad, I agree, espcially in dark bly/green systems, a bit easier in reddish systems. Can be overcome with some hassle by moving the POV around... If you can't do hand-eye coordination you are pretty much screwed anyway in all the other kinds of gameplay as well. How do you even target stuff?? Quote: - The current system is too easy on the high income/high return exploration sites. Anyone with low skills can directly do those. The return of high-end skills in exploration has been killed. Noooo, rather K-space sites are no longer the high income sites, those have been replaced by WH-sites. One can still support oneself and some moderatly expensive habits by highsec exploration alone though. If, that is, one is clever enough to find the right systems to probe in. Quote: - The greatest difficulty in the new system is to drag spheres aka bubbles (which dont like to be dragged :P ) Hint: Try holding down shift while dragging, and try clicking on the probe itself, not the bloody arrow... The arrows are for fine tuning, not large movements...
SwissChris1	Posted - 2010.08.20 08:51:00 - [56] Edited by: SwissChris1 on 20/08/2010 08:51:57 CCP could introduce handicap stickers for the disabled, then they could use special handicapped parking in stations ... and yes I am trolling because this thread is just rediculous. Your argument is that because you have a six year old account everything should be easy for you and screw everyone else. New players are important for the continued existance of eve...guess what, your loyalty alone doesn't keep servers running, money does. Just sell one of your t2 BPOs and play eve free for life (almost). Adapt or move on. I doubt that there is anyone in eve who wants to change the scan time from 4 seconds back to 120 seconds...
DNightmare Stripper Mine Co.	Posted - 2010.08.20 09:00:00 - [57] yay someone rages about the probing system... Just wanna get my 2 isk in before this thread is either locked or disappears in the endless space of forum page 100: To be honest: Both system are kinda borked and have their problems! But instead of trying to get the old and beloved one back I think some small fixes to the new one would be all what is needed. - The ship-preview window shows us that the engine is capable of handling two different renderoutputs at the same time, so why not do something like a splitscreen with one view from the top and one view from the side of solarsystem X, remove the boxes from the probes and only keep the arrows for the correct view (topview -> move probe on X & Y, sideview -> move them on Z) Think of it a bit like the systemoverview you can open where you have those three little sidewindows for region, constellation, system - Introduce another scan category so wormholes can be filtered - Bring back one thing I really miss from the old days: Multispecs! Sometimes I'm not in the mood for complexes or don't have a salvager around, so with multis you can hunt down exactly what you wanna do - Yeah, grav / mag sites will get ignored even more with multis so they need some redesign / adjusting to be worth the effort again <veteran raging> - Well, make sigs a bit harder to probe, at least in low/0.0/w-space. I have all the skills & stuff but that doesn't mean I don't like a challenge and some 'fiddeling' around to get my results to 100%. Someone above mentioned all those stupid hours he needs to scan a C5 / C6 with lots of sigs: The longest run I had was about 2.5 hrs with the OLD system, the new one... well I can go 32-8-2AU for most stuff, 1-0.5 for some better Radars and that's it, done!. Probed out every system, no matter how many signatures in there in < 1 hr so far but most of the time I'm done after ~10 minutes (Because we have omniprobes now and don't have to launch the correct probes for each signaturetype + we don't have to make bookmarks to place the probes at good spots) - A bit more risk in low/0.0 for probers would be nice. Right now I only lost 2 ships because I was stupid again so can't blame the probesystem for that, apart from that there's literally no risk if you sit in your Cheetah hunting down stuff cause you can warp, cloak etc. Why not make your ship having to decloak when you wanna recall probes? (as you need to be decloaked to launch em in the first place) Or you can only initiate scan without any active module and out of warp? Just all those little bits that give others a chance to maybe track you down ;) No I'm not one of those others but I like a little bit of adrenaline instead of being 99%+ safe all the time. </veteran raging> Just some points to think about before complaining. Yes it's noob-friendler than before (I even got a couple of RL friends into eve and explained them HiSec Radar probing for a lil sideincome if bored from other activities, takes only ~7days skilling) but that's not really bad, because it saves alot of time in the exploration channel answering the same questions over and over again and as stated some times now, competition is no bad thing. Now before some in here jump me with "Hey man, you never have used the old system it seems rabble blabla" Well if YOU actually used the old one and remember the time back then you prolly will know my name ;) Time to get back to my probe launcher, DNightmare PS: Won't talk about the problem for disabled people cause, sad but true,that's kinda found everywhere in eve and OP just used it to support his raging.
Johan Sabbat Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.08.20 09:35:00 - [58] Ignoring the rant-fest about the new system being just moving spheres and too easy. I'd just like to easily view the star map, flat from above through 90 degress to flat from the side (and because I'm greedy each angle in between and spin the system through 360 degrees). -- Fake edit It would be so good if everyone laughs at me and then tells me how to do all the above.
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.08.20 11:27:00 - [59] Edited by: Naomi Wildfire on 20/08/2010 11:36:49 Quote: I know you weren't talking about W-space, but wormholes are FAR more profitable than plexes/missions/deadspace...if you survive. 2 of my corpmates and I went into a Class 3 wormhole. It took awhile to scan down (you don't always find the class of wormhole you want), but we went in, and an hour later when we came out, we were EACH about 37 million richer. 37m per hour? Thats loughable low, you can beat that by far even with ratting and doing anomalies. For your interest, i've made 8b in 3 days in a few hours of work, you would have made around 2,7b in constant 72 hours of killing sleepers. Originally by: Elena Vherokia Edited by: Elena Vherokia on 19/08/2010 22:51:52 My Dear Mr NewBie or Svekke, Originally by: Svekke 10/10 sites also require leadership 5 and a bit of social skills(real ones) if I remember correctly. But then again you do your scanning and exploration alone. You obviously have no clue about the return and/or revenue of 10/10s compared to other sites. Why dont you learn exploring before you babble such obvious bs? Since i'm a 10/10 runner and run those in around 30 minutes, i can say "the return and/or revenue of 10/10s compared to other sites" is pretty good. If you dont have a clue how to do it right, i wouldnt mind if you just be silent What i dont like on probing atm are, when you lower your probe boxes below the "0 mark" and they turn almost unseeable dark.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.08.20 11:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Elena Vherokia Since you fail at scrolling one page back: Since you fail at understanding the new system: Astro 5 in makes sense because it lets you assess the value of a system at a glance. If you feel this makes for "low" usefulness, you're not really interested in exploration for profit, so the fact that there are more people competing for the sites make no difference for you. Quote: - The current system puts the physically disabled on a huge disadvantage (rl). This esspecially applies to colors/contrast and hand-eye-coordination. Its the worst part ever done in usability by CCP. (please only comment on this one if you really did probing for some time and stop trolling this part) This is the only actual complaint you have, but you're missing the bigger picture: it's bad for everyone, not just the disabled. Quote: - The current system is too easy on the high income/high return exploration sites. Anyone with low skills can directly do those. The return of high-end skills in exploration has been killed. First of all: false. Second of all, even if it were true: so what? You seem to believe that the exploration environment hasn't changed (and you've even said yourself that you have no actual experience of the new environment), so you're assuming that the "high end" is still the same place it used to beà based on sheer ignorance. Quote: - The greatest difficulty in the new system is to drag spheres aka bubbles (which dont like to be dragged àwhich is infinitely more difficult from the old one, which was simplistic to the point of being 99% bottable. Quote: Question: Why not update the old system but instead create a new windows 1.0 system? This has been answered. Comment on the answers, or the only conclusion can be that you have never actually scanned using either the old or the new system. Basically, you're complaining that it's too easy in the kiddy pool, and you're alluding to being outsmarted in said poolà àand then you try to make that a problem with the system?! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

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