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[EBANK] The long, drawn-out death wail

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Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:42:00 - [481] Justification is a useless currency in EVE, you either have the ability to enforce and exact, or you don't. Might is right. Your pathetic ethical analogies are the last desperate bastion of defence for those too pathetic to protect themselves. Welcome to impotency, population you. I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches.
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:54:00 - [482] Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 13/04/2011 19:56:10 Originally by: Ray McCormack Justification is a useless currency in EVE, you either have the ability to enforce and exact, or you don't. Might is right. Your pathetic ethical analogies are the last desperate bastion of defence for those too pathetic to protect themselves. Welcome to impotency, population you. ..ITT: Cause WE GOT TEH ISK LOLOLOL (ad infinitum) and you don't, so suck it losers! We're from the Muammar Gaddafi school of thought! I will rule you or I will KILL YOU! And by KILL YOU I mean keep your isk, because actually killing you would be rather uncouth, don't you think? Plus all of that United Nations and being charged with crimes against humanity foolishness. Who has the time? We have a dictatorship err, I mean internet spaceship bank with spacebucks to run! And by run I mean embezzle and demand full API keys. And by demand full API keys I mean profiting off of our intimate knowledge of your spaceship cowboy antics. And by intimate spaceship cowboys I mean fap.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.04.13 19:58:00 - [483] Originally by: Syds Sinclair Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 13/04/2011 19:56:10 Originally by: Ray McCormack Justification is a useless currency in EVE, you either have the ability to enforce and exact, or you don't. Might is right. Your pathetic ethical analogies are the last desperate bastion of defence for those too pathetic to protect themselves. Welcome to impotency, population you. ..ITT: Cause WE GOT TEH ISK LOLOLOL (ad infinitum) and you don't, so suck it losers! We're from the Muammar Gaddafi school of thought! I will rule you or I will KILL YOU! And by KILL YOU I mean keep your isk, because actually killing you would be rather uncouth, don't you think? Plus all of that United Nations and being charged with crimes against humanity foolishness. Who has the time? We have a dictatorship err, I mean internet spaceship bank with spacebucks to run! And by run I mean embezzle and demand full API keys. And by demand full API keys I mean profiting off of our intimate knowledge of your spaceship cowboy antics. And by intimate spaceship cowboys I mean fap. Most of your arguments are so 2009. Get with the times.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:10:00 - [484] Originally by: Ray McCormack Justification is a useless currency in EVE, you either have the ability to enforce and exact, or you don't. Might is right. Your pathetic ethical analogies are the last desperate bastion of defence for those too pathetic to protect themselves. Welcome to impotency, population you. But boy did you ***** when Kwint took his action against EBANK. Welcome to feeble hypocrisy, etc. There is no issue of ethical analogy here, simply of ethics. It's sad to see that you have fallen so far as to invoke the might is right doctrine - it leads to some pretty unpleasant places and whilst you might flatter yourself that you are such a bad boy as to revel in those consequences I don't believe you really are. You are spouting pseudo-intellectualised garbage to justify your latest arbitrary decision, not pursuing a principled line of action. Otherwise you would just be walking with all the remaining isk in EBANK and AATP. If you don't, then you have reasons for not doing so and those reasons have nothing to do with might.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:15:00 - [485] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: RAW23 Does this legitimise all defaults by EBANK depositors that occured after Ricdic's theft then? Also Kwint's actions that you whined so heartily about? I don't understand this part of your post. Can you explain further? Anyone that defaulted before or after Ricdic ran off is being treated the same. Sure. My point is that by your logic they did nothing wrong (or at least nothing different from what you are doing now). Once EBANK was tainted with guilt by association due to a director stealing depositors' isk, not to mention the overturning of the terms of service, it then becomes legitimate to withhold payment to anyone connected to the tainted body, right?
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:34:00 - [486] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 ..every member in KIA benefited directly or indirectly from the theft, and some more than others. We have no way of really knowing if they were or were not directly involved or if they are actually alts of the individuals that knowingly and intentionally defaulted. ..I'm sure you have looked into exactly how many KIA invested into EBANK em i rite? Because if it is just this lone dumb poor sap who gave RP SPACEBUX MOGULS his isk as an investment, surely the odds that there was malice in this individuals heart regarding the KIA scam are very slim, indicating that his poorly thought out investment should be repaid in full. Or is it just because you have the spacebucks, and so, are kings amongst Fedo. If that is the case, then I sure hope that enacting your will against opposition because of your might is worth being, as I like to call it, an asshat.
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:38:00 - [487] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Syds Sinclair Edited by: Syds Sinclair on 13/04/2011 19:56:10 Originally by: Ray McCormack Lol I hav ur spacebux. ..Post of epic proportions. Most of your arguments are so 2009. Get with the times. ..The arguments that you guys spun and deflected in 2009 are still applicable today.
Atima Minmatar House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.04.13 20:51:00 - [488] wait.... what did kwint do? I've been /afk to long :( Actually most of you probably think it wasn't long enough ^^
RAW23	Posted - 2011.04.13 21:01:00 - [489] Edited by: RAW23 on 13/04/2011 21:04:02 Originally by: Atima wait.... what did kwint do? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1239103&page=1 Edit Actually, the place to start is here. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1218519&page=21#630
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.04.13 22:13:00 - [490] Originally by: Atima wait.... what did kwint do? I've been /afk to long :( Actually most of you probably think it wasn't long enough ^^ Long story short... Kwint and EBANK both had debts with each other. Kwint's debt to EBANK was larger then EBANK's debt to Kwint. When EBANK locked and froze all accounts Kwint stopped paying EBANK internet on the Bond, but kept paying everyone else. KWINT then went a step further and denied EBANK the ability to sell those public traded bonds to anyone. EBANK whipped KWINTS account. Apart from all the W T FKERY that was happening going on here, the whole situation escalated at an alarming pace for a start. To me I felt like KWINT really just wanted to stick it to EBANK and would do anything he could to make that happen. Even now after over a year from the event I look back and see both sides had valid points, I still feel as if KWINT just wanted to get away with a quick bonus, and used EBANK as an excuse to take those actions rather then coming up with or working with Ray to resolve the issue. Not that it made much difference in the end, I doubt KWINT would have pumped his API into EBANK anyway, so he got away with several billion more ISK then he was "entitled" to at the expense of EBANK. People around here call that a scam and the executor of that action a scammer. If KWINT and EBANK both chose not to pay interest on each others debts that should have been more then enough to satisfy everyone concerned. If KWINT and EBANK did a ISK for ISK payback until either KWINT or EBANK didn't owe the other any debt. Leaving one still in debt to the other. That would have been enough to satisfy everyone concerned. But neither of these actions took place, which is sad, despite Ray's offers to continue to work with Kwint to resolve the issue. meh, water under the bridge, just another three billion ISK being denied from EBANK's verified account holders. And on the 488th post thou said unto me... THY SHALL START FIRE!! Amarr for Life
Khanid Voltar	Posted - 2011.04.13 23:12:00 - [491] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Atima wait.... what did kwint do? I've been /afk to long :( Actually most of you probably think it wasn't long enough ^^ Long story short... Having not been there at the time, and have only read the threads today, that's a remarkably biased opinion you are espousing there SenceS. Just saying...
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.04.13 23:31:00 - [492] Originally by: Khanid Voltar Having not been there at the time, and have only read the threads today, that's a remarkably biased opinion you are espousing there SenceS. Just saying... Oh I absolutely agree.. I must say back then I appeared a little blinded. Viewing the situation in the here and now bias aside, the whole situation was childish. I can tell you with honesty that Ray did want to work it out, but it was meet with nothing but total resistance from Kwint. When all the efforts failed they feed off each other and create what is best described as a poor resolution. I viewed Kwint as honorable, and having him turn sourpuss over a situation he made personal, over the choices EBANK made affecting everyone hurt. It's probably what created my bias a little evident in that post. Even though I tried to remove all signs of it, I just couldn't help it Amarr for Life
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.13 23:37:00 - [493] ..So Ray and Co. Can scam, ridicule, and confiscate ISK and your all for it. But Kwint? Aw he's being childish and scamming. Gotcha.
Atima Minmatar House of Marbles	Posted - 2011.04.13 23:47:00 - [494] Hmn, if I was in Kwints position I would have wrote off the difference but continued to pay and excess I owed. This is the only logical way to do it and why the hell would he invest and borrow at the same time unless it was just his balance he needed onhand.... in which case it was probably negligable in comparison to his debt. That makes it a pretty ****ish move.
Khanid Voltar	Posted - 2011.04.13 23:48:00 - [495] Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 13/04/2011 23:49:32 Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..So Ray and Co. Can scam, ridicule, and confiscate ISK and your all for it. But Kwint? Aw he's being childish and scamming. Gotcha. I think the difference was that EBANK was a (failing) bank, and therefore felt it was able to re-write contractual obligations with impunity without fear of consequences. And unfortunately (for EBANK) Kwint wouldn't stand for it and used the leverage at his disposal to force the point. KV edit - clarity
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.13 23:59:00 - [496] Originally by: Khanid Voltar Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 13/04/2011 23:49:32 I think the difference was that EBANK was a (failing) bank, and therefore felt it was able to re-write contractual obligations with impunity without fear of consequences. And unfortunately (for EBANK) Kwint wouldn't stand for it and used the leverage at his disposal to force the point. KV edit - clarity ..Like any red blooded hamburger eatin American would do! Kwint, I salute you.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:11:00 - [497] Funny, what I got from reading that thread was Ray telling Kwint to go frick himself. And Kwint actually doing it. And then Ray going: "I was just kidding! When I said what are you gonna do about it I really meant I wanted to work things out" I hope Ray is a wizard at.. doing something, because his communication skills, public speaking, and general manner leave a lot to be desired. Also, SecneS account seems a bit.. biased. Particularly the "Ray was trying to work things out" bit. Very humorous however.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:13:00 - [498] Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..So Ray and Co. Can scam, ridicule, and confiscate ISK and your all for it. But Kwint? Aw he's being childish and scamming. Gotcha. WARNING I enjoyed posted this and use creative writing to enhance my to match your opinion clearly evident in your post.. Well since you view it like that I pose to you this! Kwint's personal wallet is 3 Billion ISK up, 3 Billion which came from EBANK deposits, under the promises of paying it back to EBANK which has promised to pay back it's customers. So by extension Kwint stole from EBANK customers just like Riddic, but he only made 3 Billion. Pretty small scam if you ask me.. EBANK is 3 Billion ISK less on it's commitment due to KWINT.. EBANK has only ever zeroed out accounts for the following reasons 1) They scammed or defaulted on a debt. 2) They where Riddic 3) The customer requested it. 4) They are unable to prove that they are not 1 or 2. Before you get on you high horse be well aware of my position on EBANK Policies surrounding this before you textually attack me, I can sight with forum evidence my position and how it has never changed. You should know that I view things like this in an extremely logical processed way. EBANK owed Kwint 2 Billion ISK EBANK owned 5 Billion worth Kwint bonds KWINT Rightfully stopped interest payments on EBANK Held KWINT Bonds due to EBANK Policy to stop interest payment on account holders. EBANK Chose to announce it selling the publicly traded KWINT bonds to anyone wanting to buy them. KWINT Denied the sale and voided the transaction locking EBANK in to hold a 5 Billion Debt that will not be repaid. EBANK Recovered ISK from KWINT's personal EBANK account, recovering 2 Billion of the 5 Billion debt it is unable to liquidate. Childish posturing aside done from both Ray and Kwint the progression here is Kwint's actions make him a scammer. If EBANK wasn't in the situation it was and that happened you'd be trolling Kwint's every word, but masking it the way Kwint did not only makes him a scammer but a maniacal one! Beside, Syds, you're post history has been evidence of your complete contempt for EBANK and everything it represents, at least in the posts above I'm will be recognize a few thing, facts are facts, you on the other hand have kept the same unwavering opinion with all certainty that you can never be wrong and justified in posting the way you do. I've hope you've all enjoyed this post brought to you by the mind of someone who enjoys word-smithing replied to trolls.. Amarr for Life
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:23:00 - [499] Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Also, SecneS account seems a bit.. biased. Particularly the "Ray was trying to work things out" bit. Very humorous however. Evidence of Ray's desire is unavailable on the forum, humorous it may be to you, it is also honest. Since I am unable to provide prove of this on a forum in which I do not have edit or mod permission makes this opinion... not so effective. It's unfortunate evidence of this is not available, MSN logs and EBANK forum posts are not good enough to prove my opinion of Ray's intentions.. What I find humorous, is that you find my opinion of Rays intentions humorous. In all honesty I have no real way of knowing if Ray had any other motive then resolving this. Personal account of that particular situation is Ray wanted to resolve it. Why you think this is humorous is what is humorous in my opinion. Lets see if I can twist any more posts... NEXT! Amarr for Life
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:29:00 - [500] Originally by: SencneS WARNING I enjoyed posted this and use creative writing to enhance my to match your opinion clearly evident in your post.. ..Yes I must say very creative. /Yawn. Originally by: SencneS ..Beside, Syds, you're post history has been evidence of your complete contempt for EBANK and everything it represents,.. Yes true. I do have complete contemp for EBANK and everything it represents. Including but not limited to demanding full API, asshattery from EBANK reps, and incompetent EBANK admins. Originally by: SencneS ..you on the other hand have kept the same unwavering opinion with all certainty that you can never be wrong and justified in posting the way you do. Umm..thank you? Yes my opinion is unwavering. Isn't that a good thing? It in fact is if the opposition does not present valid arguments to the magnitude of wavering my opinion. Yes I think until you folk justify yourself, I'll keep my opinion. Thank you. Originally by: SencneS I've hope you've all enjoyed this post brought to you by the mind of someone who enjoys word-smithing replied to trolls.. Exquisite word-smithing. And by Exquisite word-smithing, I mean absolute self serving blather.
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:29:00 - [501] Edited by: Rafia Landras Audeles on 14/04/2011 00:30:23 Kwint: Quote: Ray, Let me lay the situation bare for you: EBANK and I both hold a portion of the other's debt and we both owe interest on it. Every week I pay the interest on my debt and every week you essentially tell me to go screw myself. I pay and you thumb your nose at me, denying me not just access to my money but unilaterally declaring your interest to be null and void while mine is still to be paid in full. From my perspective EBANK is demonstrating a willful and intentional failure to meet their commitments. Not having the funds to honor withdrawals is unfortunate but understandable. Declaring you're no longer going to pay interest is not. In fact, taken in time with your continued insistence that debts to you be honored and the idea that the bank will continue to operate after returning to solvency makes this seem downright malicious. You are at best taking advantage of the situation to limit your future liability and at worst -and I would argue- downright defrauding your customers. Returning to the point at hand, we both owe each other capital plus regular interest payments. I'm paying, you're telling me "tough luck." How do you suggest we resolve this? Just to clarify a bit further, here's the situation I'm asking for: I let EBANK hold several billion of my money for as long as they like with me having no control over it and in exchange I get an IOU for 3% monthly. EBANK has in turn loaned me a couple billion via bonds which I pay them actual cash for at 4.25% monthly. So, EBANK holds my money ransom giving me an IOU that even taken at facevalue is worth less than what I give them every month in actual cash. This is the situation I'm trying to cajole you guys into accepting! And Ray: Quote: Originally by: Kwint Sommer How do you suggest we resolve this? Quote: We just sold your shares. Now what? You are right, unless you are a gifted psychic its rather hard to see how Ray wanted to work this out. He tried so hard, the poor dear, and is so misunderstood. Why this thread and the rest of the Ebank comedy efforts show just how hard Ray tries to work things out with everyone.
Khanid Voltar	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:31:00 - [502] Just out of interest, why was Ray the one to take over? Was he involved at the beginning but left, was he the most trusted auditor at the time or what? I mean if I were him and I'd been involved in a thankless task clearing up other peoples mistakes for the past two years I'd ~~probably~~ definitely be getting a bit shirty with people by now. Although I can also see it from the other perspective whereby the investor has had to wait 2 long years to get back the isk (and hence is also pretty shirty). Just interested KV
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:32:00 - [503] Originally by: Khanid Voltar Just out of interest, why was Ray the one to take over? Was he involved at the beginning but left, was he the most trusted auditor at the time or what? I mean if I were him and I'd been involved in a thankless task clearing up other peoples mistakes for the past two years I'd ~~probably~~ definitely be getting a bit shirty with people by now. Although I can also see it from the other perspective whereby the investor has had to wait 2 long years to get back the isk (and hence is also pretty shirty). Just interested KV You mean any investors have gotten back any isk?
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:37:00 - [504] Quote: EBANK has only ever zeroed out accounts for the following reasons 1) They scammed or defaulted on a debt. 2) They where Riddic 3) The customer requested it. 4) They are unable to prove that they are not 1 or 2. ..4) Investees are in KIA alliance. Reply with spin incoming.
Khanid Voltar	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:39:00 - [505] Edited by: Khanid Voltar on 14/04/2011 00:42:34 Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Originally by: Khanid Voltar Just out of interest, why was Ray the one to take over? Was he involved at the beginning but left, was he the most trusted auditor at the time or what? I mean if I were him and I'd been involved in a thankless task clearing up other peoples mistakes for the past two years I'd ~~probably~~ definitely be getting a bit shirty with people by now. Although I can also see it from the other perspective whereby the investor has had to wait 2 long years to get back the isk (and hence is also pretty shirty). Just interested KV You mean any investors have gotten back any isk? No, I mean why was Ray the person chosen to take over. The rest was just blather on my part (its 1.40am!) edit - not trying to start on Ray, just curious why he was the one to take over.
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.14 00:42:00 - [506] ..Wait guise, maybe if Kwint had just "Frozen" EBANK's assets and asked for their full API's this whole matter could have been resolved. EM I RITE SCENES??
Syds Sinclair	Posted - 2011.04.14 01:59:00 - [507] ..I said EM I RITE SCENES? Or is this one of those times when your frail attempt to save face, and the face or your lackeys/lackors, is confronted with that pesky little deamon called logic and/or reason? Is this one of those instances where you just ignore the logic and/or reason and then continue posting on the forums like nothing ever happened? He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. ~Andrew Carnegie
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.04.14 02:41:00 - [508] Originally by: Syds Sinclair ..Wait guise, maybe if Kwint had just "Frozen" EBANK's assets and asked for their full API's this whole matter could have been resolved. EM I RITE SCENES?? Ding dong... You are wrong... Careful now, You clearly don't know me well enough to try and call me out in such a blatant way. I have nothing to lose and call people bluffs left and right, Why? I can, I have nothing to lose. If Kwint wanted my API in exchange for him repaying what remaining debt back to EBANK, I would have happily given it over. In fact, I tell you what since you have the illusion you're so right here.. since you seem to think KWINT was so in the right here, I offer this up. You pay me the 5 Billion ISK KWINT owes EBANK. I'll give you may full API key which has never changed since it was originally generated by CCP, I'm too lazy to change it anyway so you've got it for as long as I play EVE. I'll transfer that 5 Billion to EBANK to go towards liquidation, I will also clear Kwint's name from an EBANK standpoint and to go even more, I'll reinstate Kwint's account, reinstate his full account balance, verify his account, have Ray issue you his shares, and when EBANK pays the dividends you'll get his part of the liquidation. You be the Hero Kwint refused to be.. In fact I'll offer that up to ANYONE that wants to cover his scammers debt with EBANK. You want a glimpse of why I have this bias, horrible opinion of this scammer.. Here it is. I don't often like to quote myself but here it is.. Originally by: SencneS Raffle off that 3B ISK. In fact I tell you what, I'll do you a deal here. You run a Raffle, and draw names for anyone that signs up, when the name is drawn I'll personally check their EBANK account total, (Any account API active or not) and I'll tell you what their account balance is. You keep pulling names until that 3B is gone. You said you where doing this for MD, so lets see you REALLY DO IT for MD. Put it up for grabs, become the "HERO" you where originally trying to be. I'm not joking here, Run it, I'm calling you out right here right now (I know you're asleep), put that 3B ISK in a raffle for all the people that have EBANK accounts. I gave kwint the option to not go down scammers lane, to put the ISK he withheld form EBANK to use to do exactly what he was claiming he was trying to do. He never took it. He kept that ISK, ISK wasn't officially entitled to for personal gain. Choice quote here from that thread Originally by: YouGotRipped I was hoping you'd say that. Let me be the first to congratulate you, Kwint, you're now officially part of the family. I may be bias toward him, but it's because despite all the childish banter, best intentions, and egotistical bullcrappery. Kwint chose to KEEP that 3 Billion ISK, when he was given the option above by me and I would have MADE it happen. My offer stands to you Syds, now it's your chance to put your ISK where your opinion is. Cover the debt, become the hero, I dare you, in fact I double dog dare you. I gain nothing, you gain everything. Will you heed the call? Or are you just a troll support the actions of a scammer? Amarr for Life
Rafia Landras Audeles Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.14 02:48:00 - [509] Originally by: SencneS You pay me the 5 Billion ISK KWINT owes EBANK. I'll give you may full API key which has never changed since it was originally generated by CCP, I'm too lazy to change it anyway so you've got it for as long as I play EVE. I'll transfer that 5 Billion to EBANK to go towards liquidation, I will also clear Kwint's name from an EBANK standpoint and to go even more, I'll reinstate Kwint's account, reinstate his full account balance, verify his account, have Ray issue you his shares, and when EBANK pays the dividends you'll get his part of the liquidation. You be the Hero Kwint refused to be.. Wasn't it 3 billion? Your math is only second to your bank management skills. I missed the class in hero school where being a hero required taking Ray's abuse and tolerating random change of terms to the benefit of the crafter of said terms at his whim. I guess he should have begged Ray to abuse him some more. Are you really this dense?
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.04.14 02:51:00 - [510] Edited by: SencneS on 14/04/2011 02:53:10 Originally by: Rafia Landras Audeles Wasn't it 3 billion? Your math is only second to your bank management skills. I missed the class in hero school where being a hero required taking Ray's abuse and tolerating random change of terms to the benefit of the crafter of said terms at his whim. I guess he should have begged Ray to abuse him some more. Are you really this dense? Are you? KWINT owed EBANK 5 Billion. If you actually read the post with in unbiased opinion you'd see I would also reinstate EBANK Debt to kwint and transfer that account balance to him.. clap clap clap for sticking your foot in your mouth.. Thanks for play though.. edit:- Changed "debt" to "Account balance" Amarr for Life

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