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[EBANK] The long, drawn-out death wail

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Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2010.12.29 20:48:00 - [301] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Liberty Eternal The fact that it's a game shouldn't be an excuse - when real money changes hands, you are entitled to the service you paid for, at face value. Being stolen from then told it's a great gameplay experience doesn't really cut any ice. The only thing paying CCP allows is to connect to their server. Again I will mention that CCP owns all ingame items. How can it be fraud if you don't own ISK? They also sell PLEX, not just subscriptions. When a customer purchases a product/service, there is a reasonable expectation that they will be able to enjoy the goods/service they have paid for. It can be considered mis-selling to allow customer A to purchase a product or service which the company then allows customer B to steal. In the UK, customer A has a right to be protected from this kind of behaviour. I do know from my experience in sales that VISA will come down like a ton of bricks on companies that misrepresent or defraud customers over the internet.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.12.29 20:53:00 - [302] Originally by: Liberty Eternal They also sell PLEX, not just subscriptions. What is a PLEX used for? 30 days of subscription to connect to the server. Nothing more, nothing less. If a PLEX was unable to be traded, it would still be worth what it is today. 30 days of subscription time. Nothing more, nothing less.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2010.12.29 21:13:00 - [303] Edited by: Liberty Eternal on 29/12/2010 21:14:05 I'm not sure that argument can hold up, because customers who purchase PLEX with real cash do so with the expectation that they can use it to purchase in-game currency. That is the difference between PLEX and normal subscription charges - a difference that is clear and easily recognised. Now, if PLEX is not in fact fulfilling this service, then why sell it? Either it is a real product, in which case you are entitled to enjoy it, or else it is a non-service or non-product. Selling a non-service for real cash is the very definition of deception in sales. You can't sell a non-service for real money, nor can you appear to sell one service when in fact the service is not going to be provided in accordance with the face-value, reasonable expectations that the paying customer has. So I think VISA and Mastercard should block all PLEX transactions, but not the subscription transaction. There is no requirement to have two products, if they both provide the same service anyway. Edit: typo
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:10:00 - [304] God damn. Stfu. You have got to be one of the stupidest ****ing people I have ever had the misfortune of listening to or reading.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:13:00 - [305] Originally by: SetrakDark God damn. Stfu. You have got to be one of the stupidest ****ing people I have ever had the misfortune of listening to or reading. +9,678
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:31:00 - [306] There was nothing stupid about my argument. Although naturally, the people doing the stealing will have a different opinion to those who are stolen from. I for one am sick of reading these endless scam threads, just like most other people here. If CCP want to allow scamming, they should pay for it out of their own resources. It's not ethical to drag hundreds of innocent and unsuspecting customers into these scams and have them parted with their money. It is probably not legal either - it's about time something real was done about it and the people responsible [both CCP and the scammers] were held accountable for their actions in the real World.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:51:00 - [307] Originally by: Liberty Eternal There was nothing stupid about my argument. Although naturally, the people doing the stealing will have a different opinion to those who are stolen from. I for one am sick of reading these endless scam threads, just like most other people here. If CCP want to allow scamming, they should pay for it out of their own resources. It's not ethical to drag hundreds of innocent and unsuspecting customers into these scams and have them parted with their money. It is probably not legal either - it's about time something real was done about it and the people responsible [both CCP and the scammers] were held accountable for their actions in the real World. No. Why the hell should people be held responsible for ingame actions in the real world? I have a strong dislike for scammers but I'm glad that scamming is allowed in EVE as it adds to the depth and flavour of the game. It would be nice if CCP could introduce some mechanics to make life a bit more cumbersome for scammers as I think they get things a bit too easy at the moment but I don't see much merit in your arguments on this point.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2010.12.30 00:00:00 - [308] Originally by: RAW23 No. Why the hell should people be held responsible for ingame actions in the real world? I have a strong dislike for scammers but I'm glad that scamming is allowed in EVE as it adds to the depth and flavour of the game. It would be nice if CCP could introduce some mechanics to make life a bit more cumbersome for scammers as I think they get things a bit too easy at the moment but I don't see much merit in your arguments on this point. This is different to a free game, or to a subscription-only game, because some [ie one, PLEX] of the in-game services are paid for. A Casino in Las Vegas provides "just games" but you can't scam or steal in them without getting busted. So at what point do we make the transition from "monopoly money" game to "real-money" game? When money changes hands, and when hundreds of customers are scammed by people working for possible real-World financial gain, then you have motive, means and victim. Crime 101
Bluebeard Minmatar LoneStar Industries Comatose Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.30 00:03:00 - [309] Originally by: Ray McCormack Hi Ray, can you check your mail please.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.12.30 02:51:00 - [310] Originally by: Liberty Eternal customers who purchase PLEX with real cash do so with the expectation that they can use it to purchase in-game currency. Proof? Quote: A Pilot License Extension (PLEX) is an item that adds 30 days of game time to your EVE Online account. It can be converted from any game time code and, like any other item, it can be traded on the EVE market. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/30_days_Concord_Pilot_License_Extension Show me where in that article is specifically states that you MUST trade a PLEX for ISK? Anywhere? Anywhere? NO. You may trade it, but it is used to add 30 days of time to your account. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.12.30 06:49:00 - [311] Can we donate PLEX to Wikileaks? Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.30 16:09:00 - [312] Originally by: Ray McCormack Can we donate PLEX to Wikileaks? On a serious note, how's the "investigation" going?
Fleshbot	Posted - 2010.12.30 17:24:00 - [313] Originally by: Liberty Eternal A Casino in Las Vegas provides "just games" but you can't scam or steal in them without getting busted. Okay, poker is a game you can play in a casino. If I tell another player "I have all aces, you should fold" and he does and it turns out I'm lying, do I turn over my money? Am I criminally charged? No because bluffing (or lying) is accepted within the game, is in fact part of the game. How about it I suicide gank your ship in high sec, can you sue me for destruction of property? In summary, we play by the rules of the game, and they explicitly allow scamming and second nothing you 'own' can every be stolen or scammed since you own nothing in game, CCP owns it all, CCP who is allowing you use of everything in game (including plex) and can take back from you at any time and you would have no legal recourse.
Allie0op	Posted - 2010.12.31 16:48:00 - [314] Is it dead yet?
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.31 18:06:00 - [315] Originally by: Allie0op Is it dead yet? So long as people keep posting, they're never going to stop trolling you guys.
Andrew Wulfe	Posted - 2010.12.31 18:40:00 - [316] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Allie0op Is it dead yet? So long as people keep posting, they're never going to stop trolling you guys. Hmm - who to believe? Ray, who may be a scammer, or a Goon, who almost certainly is?
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.01 22:07:00 - [317] Originally by: Andrew Wulfe Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Allie0op Is it dead yet? So long as people keep posting, they're never going to stop trolling you guys. Hmm - who to believe? Ray, who may be a scammer, or a Goon, who almost certainly is? This coming from the guy who's afraid to post with his real character.
Andrew Wulfe	Posted - 2011.01.02 12:14:00 - [318] Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Andrew Wulfe Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Allie0op Is it dead yet? So long as people keep posting, they're never going to stop trolling you guys. Hmm - who to believe? Ray, who may be a scammer, or a Goon, who almost certainly is? This coming from the guy who's afraid to post with his real character. Afraid? Nah. Not trollin the forums is Rule 34 of my alliance. Not talking to goons is an adjunct to Rule 34.
Zenthes	Posted - 2011.01.02 18:06:00 - [319] So are there still payouts or did I miss out. I haven't read this whole tread.
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.01.02 18:08:00 - [320] Originally by: Zenthes So are there still payouts or did I miss out. I haven't read this whole tread. Yes, 95% of customers have been paid out now. You'll need to evemail Ray personally if you want to get your payment now though.
Andrew Wulfe	Posted - 2011.01.05 16:27:00 - [321] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Zenthes So are there still payouts or did I miss out. I haven't read this whole tread. Yes, 95% of customers have been paid out now. You'll need to evemail Ray personally if you want to get your payment now though. It's a tarp!
Sang Do'Hai	Posted - 2011.01.06 07:02:00 - [322] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Originally by: Zenthes So are there still payouts or did I miss out. I haven't read this whole tread. Yes, 95% of customers have been paid out now. You'll need to evemail Ray personally if you want to get your payment now though. Huh, what? I challenge anyone who's received a payout to post here, along with what percentage of their payout they got. And indeed if they did, I'd be curious as to by what logic I ended up in the 5%, receiving 0.00 ISK payout on my near 6B invested/lost...
Liberty Eternal	Posted - 2011.01.06 07:28:00 - [323] Take this thread with a pinch of salt It's basically a trollthread/scamgloat, so treat it with the contempt it deserves. Your isk and the profits derived from your isk were probably sold off on ebay a long time ago.
Lecherito	Posted - 2011.01.08 09:32:00 - [324] jiji Ebank managed to scam for 3+ trillion ISK, and then managed to drag things out for another year and a half? Surely deserving of a golf clap, non? =P -L
Dsan Smegnet Incorporated Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2011.01.21 07:06:00 - [325] can we get an update Ray ? When is things happening again ? Can we do anything to help ?
mine4ever	Posted - 2011.01.27 00:25:00 - [326] Originally by: Dsan can we get an update Ray ? When is things happening again ? Can we do anything to help ? i think its just a matter of wait longer till its sorted
Oftherocks 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2011.01.28 13:58:00 - [327] Originally by: mine4ever Originally by: Dsan can we get an update Ray ? When is things happening again ? Can we do anything to help ? i think its just a matter of wait longer till its sorted Really? Because AC hasn't tried to sell the assets in some time now, and there has been no official update on the process in a couple months now.
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.01.28 19:59:00 - [328] Originally by: Oftherocks Really? Yes, really. We will get to your bad investment when we get to it, and when we do you will be grateful, like a fat chick. Word. Not in the Exchange, don't invest!
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:02:00 - [329] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Oftherocks Really? ... and when we do you will be grateful, like a fat chick. Do we need to provide our own bag of flower? Joint Venture Conglomerate
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.01.28 20:06:00 - [330] Originally by: Jackie Fisher Do we need to provide our own bag of flower? I dunno, AC deals with the details, I'm just the meat. Not in the Exchange, don't invest!

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