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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
436
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Posted - 2012.08.09 23:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust. A free to play shooter with a cash store that you hope will pay for itself and become a meaningful part of the EvE Universe. This is a laudable goal - creating a more complete game ecosystem. Fleet (EvE) does the flying and MI (Dust) does the dying and all that. It even sounds like fun. If it were a done right I wouldn't even begrudge you using our subscription dollars from EvE to do it - if it would eventually pay for itself. If it did eventually pay for itself EvE would get that money back, and that money would get spent improving EvE in the long run.
However you made a grave mistake in your demographics and market research and the conclusions you have drawn from it.
You went to consoles. You're trying to setup a game that is only long-term profitable via a cash store on the console platform. In the FPS Genre. Did you even read reports of how long console gamers stick to a single shooter? 3 months after you release Dust 514 you will have 90% less people playing it than on day 1.
There were only 64 million play stations shipped - let's assume an EXTREMELY GENEROUS 10% (6.4mil - note: the best selling PS3 game is Gran Turismo 5 at 7.43mil units) give Dust a try at launch. 90% attrition within three months you'll have 640k players. Sounds good right? waay more than eve, right? Wrong. Because they're not paying subscription fees. What percentage of them are going to buy things from the cash shop? How many much do you think you will bring in, per month, from Dust's cash shop.
How many years until Dust pays for itself and we EvE players see the money come back to EvE? How many subscriptions to EvE could you have gained instead had you invested that money into improving EvE and marketing it?
What are you going to do when a more likely less than 1million players even try Dust 514? What happens when your 90% attrition takes you down to 100k, what happens where a mere 10% of them spend money in the cash store EVER? Where is the Beef, CCP? What are you going to do to make Dust at least break even. When it INEVITABLY fails on the Console are you going to fast-port it to the PC and see if you can try to not completely loose your ass on it? On PC it might have a chance since PC FPS players have a longer attention span for a single game - they stick around longer if it is good. However even that might save it.
What happens to EvE and CCP if Dust fails? What happens to the subscription dollars that were diverted from iterating on EvE and were instead spent on dust? What awesome features did we miss out on because of Dust, and when will we see them?
CCP - you used your existing game to bankroll your new one. That in and of itself is not an issue, but when that game has a high chance of failcascading and said investment diverted from making our main game more awesome then you have some responsibility to the players of your main game.
Note: for comparison - Wii 96.56 million units shipped, Xbox 360 is 67.2 million units shipped
If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Attica
Social Destortion
17
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Couldnt. Agree. More.
I got my key and was so excited I didnt pay attention to the fact that PS3 was the only way to play it. When I noticed that I immediately closed the page and sighed long and deep. It was a sad moment. Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
406
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
817
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Poasting in a stealth "I don't have a ps3" thread. |
Attica
Social Destortion
18
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.
No offense but your 'tons of friends' are not even a drop in the bucket and cannot be used to judge anything but your small group of people. I hope it does well on the PS3 but would LOVE to see it come to PC's also.
Pirate tears are yummier than carebear tears for they come from the deeper well of anguish. |
Boseo
Azure Horizon
68
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
and its posts like this that are putting off said console players from playing (and paying) for dust, believe me when I say there is already a lot of post on the beta forums with people asking why the should care when the eve community hates them.
guess what post like this really do not help the situation especially on forums which can be (shock horror) read by anyone.
so if you want dust to fail, keep making posts with over generalisations within them which will stroke console players the wrong way..
also every business has a backup plan when going in to situations like this, so my educated guess is that there are several back up plans for several situations which could happen.
Sorry but file Gǣforumsig.GIFGǥ is currently unavailable please come back laterGǪGǪ like in a year or so.
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Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission Fleet Coordination Coalition
239
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh boy, here we go again... http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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XxRTEKxX
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
4
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
I still see a ridiculous number of servers on BF3 on the 360 completely packed and that game has been out since last year. That 3 month prediction is flawed. I know over 50 people that will be on dust and half don't even own ps3s and plan to buy one just becaus of dust. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
325
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Posted - 2012.08.10 00:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.
That in itself, is not relevant in the long-term. Which is the only time frame that matters here, if a game is to last, and CCP is to not lose their shirt on this.
The issues that are relevant in the long-term are:
Will those friends stick with DUST (I don't see it as too likely given the gnat-like attention-span of most console FPS gamers Sorry, but I just don't.)?
Will those friends buy from the cash-shop (is DUST pay-to-win or not? And if so, then would those supposed friends be willing to keep "p'ing 2 w," over any kind of long-term? I tend to doubt it, and could you blame them?)
I think the OP's right in a broad sense at least, in that CCP could have chosen a genre/demographic with more "staying-power" than FPS console-kiddies.
Like, oh I dunno, maybe a deep-universe persistent sandbox with spaceships or something...
E:
Oh by the way, your "ton of console friends" does not constitute an even remotely statistically-significant sample. Anecdotal evidence =/= representative evidence.
Next! There is no Dana Goon, there is only BoB. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2265
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
I thought CCP's stated goal with Dust was to reach an audience as different from EVE's current playerbase as possible. One of them said something like that during the Alliance Tournament, anyway.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
325
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
XxRTEKxX wrote:I still see a ridiculous number of servers on BF3 on the 360 completely packed and that game has been out since last year. That 3 month prediction is flawed. I know over 50 people that will be on dust and half don't even own ps3s and plan to buy one just becaus of dust.
Those 50 people better buy a loooooooooot of cash-shop stuff, then.
There is no Dana Goon, there is only BoB. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
817
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote: Anecdotal evidence =/= representative evidence. You mean like all the evidence to its inevitable failure? |
Belshazzar Babylon
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
62
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why do you care what CCP does with their money? As long as they keep the servers on for EVE and continue to update it what difference does it make? Seriously this is like buying a Bigmac and then complaining that McDonalds is working on a new burger. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
122
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
....because another post about why/how 514 can fail will solve everything? Right?
Listen, I get that people are worried that 514 might have a negative effect on CCP. I get that people want it on PC. I get that people don't like 'console kiddies' because it makes them feel better. i get it all.
Fact of the matter is all this negativity and naysaying isn't helping anything...at all. It's not like CCP is going to magically whip up a PC version in the span of a few days and be like, "hey you guys, you were right." They're betting apparently betting heavily on the PS3 and they're too deep to just quit right now. I'm sorry to say, but the only thing you can do right now is deal with it.
Deal with it and help make the Eve & Dust community a better place for everyone. If the game fails, then the game fails. Sucks, but so be it. But standing over the corpse and yelling "I told you so" is infinitely more useless than any failure that could possibly occur. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
416
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Make dust available on both pc and ps3... all problems solved (and if ps3 players complain that they get owned by pc players, we just tell them they are noobs for using controlers) Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
134
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
posting in troll thread ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Jackie Debs
A-31 NightSong Directorate
0
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Let me get this straight. You do a google search to get some statistics based on tiny studies of unrelated games and this gives you more knowledge about the subject than all the resources of a entire multi million dollar company? You honestly think your little half ass search on the subject is equivalent in any way to the dozens of marketing, financing, and development experts of the industry? How arrogant can you possibly be? CCP obviously has reason to believe that this venture will be profitable. I am willing to bet that belief is based on a hell of a lot more than a google search.
Honestly, you could be right, it could be a huge flop. I have played the beta and I can't say anything about it due to the NDA but I can agree that it might be ill advised, but I cannot pretend to know beyond a reasonable doubt what will happen with the launch of this game and nor can you. At least save the complaining about it until after it has been released. Or did you assume your wisdom would make them stop all development in its tracks? |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit
16
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Posted - 2012.08.10 01:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Unreal engine 3 is just as much a pc engine as it is a console one so in a case of dust flopping on consoles they would probably be able to get it out on pc if they wanted to since the console version has been made on pc anyway
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
170
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
anyone who tries something new will clearly fail! I'm scared of new things |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
326
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Lyrrashae wrote: Anecdotal evidence =/= representative evidence. You mean like all the evidence to its inevitable failure?
I'm not saying I think it'll fail, I'm saying that I just don't see any staying power over the long-term given DUST's intended demographic and platform.
I could be wrong, and it would be nice if I were.
Apropos:
Are EVEies going to be allowed to camp-in, scam, gank, bait, and otherwise "grief" DUSTies? That will be an influencing factor, after all, if allowed.
E:
I kin taipe rell guud! There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun. |
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Forum Harlot
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Get a PS3 and quit this never-ending, relentless whine. Can't afford a PS3? Get a job. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1081
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust
stopped reading here, fail logic is fail. this is not how it works http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
407
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
The fact is there are people out there (including the OP and a few in this thread) that would rather see DUST available on PC only with a tiny handful of EVE players playing the game than it being on console only with a few hundred thousand playing it. Would rather see the EVE universe remain in the hands of just a few self proclaimed elites than being manipulated cross platform bridging the gap between console and PC players, being exposed to new and refreshing ways the universe of EVE can exist and thus the story moving forward into a new chapter.
Sorry you think DUST being on the PS3 only as a bad thing, but you are simply a coward. Cowards don't climb mountains because they are there. Cowards don't go to the moon. Cowards don't put a car on Mars with a sky crane. Cowards, they sit at home and only expose themselves to what is safe. What they know.
And cowards don't foam at the mouth tugging on themselves at the idea of nuking a bunch of console players from orbit from a spaceship because it is the only way to be sure. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1081
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
besides we all know dust will come to pc. It'll be like 3 years but they keep hinting at it since 2010. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
173
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
ima go buy a ps3 anyways, bunch of stuff I wanted to play on it. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
326
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Forum Harlot wrote:Get a PS3 and quit this never-ending, relentless whine. Can't afford a PS3? Get a job.
NO U.
For ****'s sake, kid, grow up!
Next! There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1082
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Forum Harlot wrote:Get a PS3 and quit this never-ending, relentless whine. Can't afford a PS3? Get a job. NO U. For ****'s sake, kid, grow up!
Next! I think we can all see who's being a kid here http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
275
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
The wisdom of targeting the console market, and specifically PS3 is dubious at best. Additionally, the PS3 is over 6 years old now. People who don't have one aren't going to go get one. Those things are antiques with their 256mb of RAM and 3.2 GHZ single core processor. The Troll is trolling. |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
269
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
You do realise they'll be porting to PS4, right? |
Jackie Debs
A-31 NightSong Directorate
1
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Posted - 2012.08.10 02:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:You do realise they'll be porting to PS4, right? Don't ruin their fun, If there is something people can do, there will be elitists within it. PC/console gaming is no exception.
If ccp released two exact ships, one blue and one red, people would be elitists about which color is best and why the other groups ship color was vastly inferior. It is human disease. The bigger the nerd ego, the worse it is. Let the elitists have their tantrum and the rest of us can enjoy the release. Their loss. |
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