I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

I still see a ridiculous number of servers on BF3 on the 360 completely packed and that game has been out since last year. That 3 month prediction is flawed. I know over 50 people that will be on dust and half don't even own ps3s and plan to buy one just becaus of dust.

Anecdotal evidence =/= representative evidence.

You mean like all the evidence to its inevitable failure?

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust

Get a PS3 and quit this never-ending, relentless whine. Can't afford a PS3? Get a job.

NO U.

For ****'s sake, kid, grow up!


Next!

You do realise they'll be porting to PS4, right?

I think we can all see who's being a kid here

NO U.

For ****'s sake, kid, grow up!


Next!

Yeah, OK, I'll just patronisingly tell everyone who disagrees with me to go spend CAD 3-400.00 of RL money just so they can try one game, and then not-so-subtly insinuate that if they don't already have the means to do so that they're somehow inferior to me in an RL way that I can't possibly prove or disprove.

Because that's a sign of superbly-honed mature sensibilities and refined good taste!

Stop posting and biomass, please, or else learn to troll properly.

Next!

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust. A free to play shooter with a cash store that you hope will pay for itself and become a meaningful part of the EvE Universe. This is a laudable goal - creating a more complete game ecosystem. Fleet (EvE) does the flying and MI (Dust) does the dying and all that. It even sounds like fun. If it were a done right I wouldn't even begrudge you using our subscription dollars from EvE to do it - if it would eventually pay for itself. If it did eventually pay for itself EvE would get that money back, and that money would get spent improving EvE in the long run.

However you made a grave mistake in your demographics and market research and the conclusions you have drawn from it.

You went to consoles. You're trying to setup a game that is only long-term profitable via a cash store on the console platform. In the FPS Genre. Did you even read reports of how long console gamers stick to a single shooter? 3 months after you release Dust 514 you will have 90% less people playing it than on day 1.

There were only 64 million play stations shipped - let's assume an EXTREMELY GENEROUS 10% (6.4mil - note: the best selling PS3 game is Gran Turismo 5 at 7.43mil units) give Dust a try at launch. 90% attrition within three months you'll have 640k players. Sounds good right? waay more than eve, right? Wrong. Because they're not paying subscription fees. What percentage of them are going to buy things from the cash shop? How many much do you think you will bring in, per month, from Dust's cash shop.

How many years until Dust pays for itself and we EvE players see the money come back to EvE? How many subscriptions to EvE could you have gained instead had you invested that money into improving EvE and marketing it?

What are you going to do when a more likely less than 1million players even try Dust 514? What happens when your 90% attrition takes you down to 100k, what happens where a mere 10% of them spend money in the cash store EVER? Where is the Beef, CCP? What are you going to do to make Dust at least break even. When it INEVITABLY fails on the Console are you going to fast-port it to the PC and see if you can try to not completely loose your ass on it? On PC it might have a chance since PC FPS players have a longer attention span for a single game - they stick around longer if it is good. However even that might save it.

What happens to EvE and CCP if Dust fails? What happens to the subscription dollars that were diverted from iterating on EvE and were instead spent on dust? What awesome features did we miss out on because of Dust, and when will we see them?

CCP - you used your existing game to bankroll your new one. That in and of itself is not an issue, but when that game has a high chance of failcascading and said investment diverted from making our main game more awesome then you have some responsibility to the players of your main game.


Note: for comparison - Wii 96.56 million units shipped, Xbox 360 is 67.2 million units shipped

I did it because you -- and those like you -- have turned EVE General Discussion into "Let's whine because someone is releasing a game on a platform we don't own General". This isn't a matter of OP having done extensive market research that CCP have overlooked, this isn't a discussion about whether or not releasing DUST on a console (Which, for the record, has an immensely greater FPS market than PC) is a good idea - this is "I want to play, but I don't want to buy a PS3".

Oh, and the price for a PS3 in Canada is <250 CAD new.

So edgy. So assertive.

Confirmation-bias is a beautiful thing, innit, troll?

Especially as no-one's said anything remotely the sort.

And, [Citation needed], by the way.

Is that what it is, now? Sorry, still not interested.

I can get RAM + really good GPU for the same price for my desktop.

Correct me please, but I don't think something like this has ever been done before. The concept was/is visionary.

This latest patch was nicely executed, so as far as the money from subs, I think we got our fair share this cycle.

I admit I have not been following this, but the one thing that seems lost to me is the reward/motivation for an EvE player to participate. I mean, have you guys seen or heard anything about how we supposed to sponsor a ground team and/or deliver orbital bombardment? If there is a tutorial, I sure haven't seen it advertised. I mean, if this is a Beta, shouldn't we be testing the interactions between EvE and Dust?

Oh and yeah, like others, I'm wondering why this is not available on the PC. CCP shows huge vision to create the EvE-Dust concept, and they don't have the vision to port it to the PC.

Oh Well.

I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

i had a ton of console friends foaming at the mouth (even more) for MW2

who plays MW2 these days? nobody

Get a PS3 and quit this never-ending, relentless whine. Can't afford a PS3? Get a job.

Poasting in a stealth "I don't have a ps3" thread.

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust. A free to play shooter with a cash store that you hope will pay for itself and become a meaningful part of the EvE Universe. This is a laudable goal - creating a more complete game ecosystem. Fleet (EvE) does the flying and MI (Dust) does the dying and all that. It even sounds like fun. If it were a done right I wouldn't even begrudge you using our subscription dollars from EvE to do it - if it would eventually pay for itself. If it did eventually pay for itself EvE would get that money back, and that money would get spent improving EvE in the long run.

However you made a grave mistake in your demographics and market research and the conclusions you have drawn from it.

You went to consoles. You're trying to setup a game that is only long-term profitable via a cash store on the console platform. In the FPS Genre. Did you even read reports of how long console gamers stick to a single shooter? 3 months after you release Dust 514 you will have 90% less people playing it than on day 1.

There were only 64 million play stations shipped - let's assume an EXTREMELY GENEROUS 10% (6.4mil - note: the best selling PS3 game is Gran Turismo 5 at 7.43mil units) give Dust a try at launch. 90% attrition within three months you'll have 640k players. Sounds good right? waay more than eve, right? Wrong. Because they're not paying subscription fees. What percentage of them are going to buy things from the cash shop? How many much do you think you will bring in, per month, from Dust's cash shop.

How many years until Dust pays for itself and we EvE players see the money come back to EvE? How many subscriptions to EvE could you have gained instead had you invested that money into improving EvE and marketing it?

What are you going to do when a more likely less than 1million players even try Dust 514? What happens when your 90% attrition takes you down to 100k, what happens where a mere 10% of them spend money in the cash store EVER? Where is the Beef, CCP? What are you going to do to make Dust at least break even. When it INEVITABLY fails on the Console are you going to fast-port it to the PC and see if you can try to not completely loose your ass on it? On PC it might have a chance since PC FPS players have a longer attention span for a single game - they stick around longer if it is good. However even that might save it.

What happens to EvE and CCP if Dust fails? What happens to the subscription dollars that were diverted from iterating on EvE and were instead spent on dust? What awesome features did we miss out on because of Dust, and when will we see them?

CCP - you used your existing game to bankroll your new one. That in and of itself is not an issue, but when that game has a high chance of failcascading and said investment diverted from making our main game more awesome then you have some responsibility to the players of your main game.


Note: for comparison - Wii 96.56 million units shipped, Xbox 360 is 67.2 million units shipped

Why do you care what CCP does with their money? As long as they keep the servers on for EVE and continue to update it what difference does it make? Seriously this is like buying a Bigmac and then complaining that McDonalds is working on a new burger.

I thought CCP's stated goal with Dust was to reach an audience as different from EVE's current playerbase as possible. One of them said something like that during the Alliance Tournament, anyway.

Why do you care what CCP does with their money? As long as they keep the servers on for EVE and continue to update it what difference does it make? Seriously this is like buying a Bigmac and then complaining that McDonalds is working on a new burger.

and its posts like this that are putting off said console players from playing (and paying) for dust, believe me when I say there is already a lot of post on the beta forums with people asking why the should care when the eve community hates them.

guess what post like this really do not help the situation especially on forums which can be (shock horror) read by anyone.

so if you want dust to fail, keep making posts with over generalisations within them which will stroke console players the wrong way..

also every business has a backup plan when going in to situations like this, so my educated guess is that there are several back up plans for several situations which could happen.

I hope Dust does well, and plan to play myself. However, I think PS3 only was a bad call too...it also should have been on the Xbox...lol...all my console FPS friends are on Xbox...I'll miss them :(

Metal gear 4: sons of patriots. Great game. After beating it a few times more, ps3 been collecting dust. I did buy ps3 just for that game. Now i got a polishing materials to wipe clean of ps3 yesterday and it is now shiny like faggottry amarrians's ships, it is ready for dust514, and will be playing it over the weekend. Why? Well my gtx 470 died and is currently in rma :s

See you guys on the field below friday night, pacific time. Only thing i am worried about is the inconvient downtime schedule for sisi.

I am nervous as much as OP, CCP, and vet pilots are. 6 years and counting, is a long time for a single game. It is targetting new audience, new game style, same server as us eve players (now gods?). But i am hoping great success, and only way to make it happen, if you love ccp enough despite all the up and downs, only me, myself, I, and YOU can make it happen to make dust work and succeed.

If you got ps3, go for it. Rest of you without ps3 and expressing doubt, negative stuff, and what not, give me your stuff, quit eve, and **** off. Those planning to get one, hope to meet you on dust. :)

I am for once nervous and excited for CCP doing something unique that have never been done before. Cross link between pc and console for a mmo. Stepping up the sandbox.

you can hope it will succeed all you want, you can beg eve players to buy playstations all you want , you can even play it & champion it all you want, the fact of the matter is this game will fail quick as a ps3 only game & all the hoping & praying in the world won't change that. & I'm entitled to my opinion & I'll quit paying my sub to EvE when I get sick of laughing at idiots like you! OK?

So CCP, you've used our subscription money

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust.

you can hope it will succeed all you want, you can beg eve players to buy playstations all you want , you can even play it & champion it all you want, the fact of the matter is this game will fail quick as a ps3 only game & all the hoping & praying in the world won't change that. & I'm entitled to my opinion & I'll quit paying my sub to EvE when I get sick of laughing at idiots like you! OK?

anyone who tries something new will clearly fail! I'm scared of new things

So,DUST is dying too? DAMMNIT!

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust. A free to play shooter with a cash store that you hope will pay for itself and become a meaningful part of the EvE Universe. This is a laudable goal - creating a more complete game ecosystem. Fleet (EvE) does the flying and MI (Dust) does the dying and all that. It even sounds like fun. If it were a done right I wouldn't even begrudge you using our subscription dollars from EvE to do it - if it would eventually pay for itself. If it did eventually pay for itself EvE would get that money back, and that money would get spent improving EvE in the long run.

[...]

CCP - you used your existing game to bankroll your new one. That in and of itself is not an issue, but when that game has a high chance of failcascading and said investment diverted from making our main game more awesome then you have some responsibility to the players of your main game.


Note: for comparison - Wii 96.56 million units shipped, Xbox 360 is 67.2 million units shipped

The wisdom of targeting the console market, and specifically PS3 is dubious at best. Additionally, the PS3 is over 6 years old now. People who don't have one aren't going to go get one. Those things are antiques with their 256mb of RAM and 3.2 GHZ single core processor.

CCP have said they are launching DUST on PS3.

I bolded & underlined the important word there.

pretty much paying for each life and with how quick deaths can rack up in a FPS we can all see where this is going

The only people who will play Dust long-term are existing Eve players and personally I don't need another Eve related time-sink.

[snip of ignoring arguments that troll-kid can't refute]

And please show me a "really good GPU" for less than 250CAD.

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust.

GǪand that is kind of why they aren't aiming at pleasing the EVE crowd by releasing it on PC.

Well not really Tippia. You can get a fair amount of cash/development assistance if you target specific hardware. CCP have taken advantage of this in the past for Eve Online with NVidia and I have no doubt Sony provided "assistance" (whether financial or embedded devs) to CCP for Dust.

The problem here is that its likely to be a niche game on (fairly) niche h/w, with a playerbase where the majority haven't been conditioned into P2W, never mind the "awesomeness" CCP believe will work

I mean seriously guys, if you thought FPS's were a blast would you be playing EVE?

I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust.

I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

I mean seriously guys, if you thought FPS's were a blast would you be playing EVE?

dust is something i have no intentions to play or get involved with at the moment even though i have a ps3


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-13-an-entire-top-end-dust-514-load-out-costs-around-USD0-24-in-real-money

pretty much paying for each life and with how quick deaths can rack up in a FPS we can all see where this is going

It was planned for both consoles, but microsoft happened. So it wasnt ccp's call. Even valve have something against microsoft because valve wants to put free stuff and updates, but ms says no, must charge.

Not a single core processor. 8 SPEs and one PPE.

Just shows how much some "PC gamers" know about consoles...

People keep saying DUST is F2P. Does that mean it's not going to cost $59.99 like every other console game? If it does than it's not F2P.

Is DUST going to have a single player offline mode? If so you get $60 from me. If not you can put me down for $0

I hope Dust does well, and plan to play myself. However, I think PS3 only was a bad call too...it also should have been on the Xbox...lol...all my console FPS friends are on Xbox...I'll miss them :(

if you mean it may be out for something else then you are wrong they have stated countless times that it will be a PS3 Exclusive

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-07-dust-514-confirmed-ps3-exclusive

CCP should stop microsoft support! Everyone should stop microsoft support!

The fact is there are people out there (including the OP and a few in this thread) that would rather see DUST available on PC only

Oh for crying out loud. You guys are complete dolts. Of course CCP is interested in porting dust for a PC.
But if they have a contract with Sony which I am sure they do then that contract spells out what they can and can not do..

Get a PS3 and quit this never-ending, relentless whine. Can't afford a PS3? Get a job.

You speak like an investor. You are not an investor you are a customer. There is a big difference.

So,DUST is dying too? DAMMNIT!

what happens with the ps3 becomes outdated replaced?

....because another post about why/how 514 can fail will solve everything? Right?

Listen, I get that people are worried that 514 might have a negative effect on CCP. I get that people want it on PC. I get that people don't like 'console kiddies' because it makes them feel better. i get it all.

Fact of the matter is all this negativity and naysaying isn't helping anything...at all. It's not like CCP is going to magically whip up a PC version in the span of a few days and be like, "hey you guys, you were right." They're apparently betting heavily on the PS3 and they're too deep to just quit right now. I'm sorry to say, but the only thing you can do right now is deal with it.

Deal with it and help make the Eve & Dust community a better place for everyone. If the game fails, then the game fails. Sucks, but so be it. But standing over the corpse and yelling "I told you so" is infinitely more useless than any failure that could possibly occur.

I have ton of... friends foaming at the mouth...

I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

How many friends are there in a ton?

I think having Dust only on the PS3 is a mistake. Simply because diversifying your target customer base would make more sense.

I think having Dust only on the PS3 is a mistake. Simply because diversifying your target customer base would make more sense.

I do not have a problem with it not being on PC.

I will be buying a PS3 in the spring anyway so idc. I just think it is a bad decision to put it only on PS3.

If Eve players can treat Dust players like they treat each other that will be not good. Most FPS players (in my personal non-scientific experience without empirical evidence) have no problem being griefed in ways that involve being shot. They get over it and forget it once the patch that fixes the exploit (if there was one) goes live. However, I do not think they will be at all ok with being scammed out of their money or equipment.

Dust will be fine, probably. CCP seems to have a pretty good handle on the whole running a game thing or so it seems to me. DON'T PANIC!

I have ton of console friends foaming at the mouth to play DUST. Your entire post is, well... bullshit.

Then complain to microsoft.. it wa snot CCP choice it not be on XBOX, was Microsoft's....

Well, isn't this amusement at a high level?

There's much argument to be had, but it is undeniable that the Console gamer demographic is "short attention span theater".

The only thing that will save DUST from the dustbin of trends and "new things" is a following for the game, such as the space side of EvE has now.


Will this happen? Who knows. There might be a dedicated group of existing EvE players who prefer to pound ground when the fleet is taking too long to form up, or the corpmates are all offline. Those who already have the right console at present, but otherwise in these tight times, getting a console just to play DUST is a rather hard justification to make for the expense.

Well, isn't this amusement at a high level?

A crusader who thinks he can decide what a business may or may not spend/invest in simply cause he's a customer of one of it's products.

Whut the...? 15 bucks a month makes somebody think they have an opinion on how a company runs its business? Gawd, I feel sorry for CCP forum mods, having to read stuff like this and keep their mouths shut.

Didn't you know?

Your $15 a month automatically makes you and expert in game design, gaming industry demographics, and business investment counciling.

It apparenly also allows you to make broad projections based on either no data or data that contradicts the point you are trying to make, pretend you have studied the issue more extensively than the folks planning this project for the last several years, and pretend you have any sort of experience in the related fields what so ever.

It is truly amazing what $15 and "hey, I played a console game once" qualify you to do now.

try $15/month spread across 5 accounts over 6 years, +$400-600 spent on PLEX (can't remember how much exactly at this point). So yea, if CCP is going to run surveys and ask me my opinion, + the amount of RL money I have spent on this company over the years + the amount of money spent upgrading to a decent PC that can keep up with the future of technology for the next 5 years. YAH, I think that I do have a right to an opinion on how they run their business. At this point, I'm no longer a scrub 1 sub 6 month player. I consider myself a MuthaFuggin investor

Didn't you know?

Your $15 a month automatically makes you and expert in gaming design, gaming industry demographics, and business investment counciling.

It apparenly also allows you to make broad projections based on either no data or data that contradicts the point you are trying to make, pretend you have studied the issue more extensively than the folks planning this project for the last several years, and pretend you have any sort of experience in the related fields what so ever.

It is truly amazing what $15 and "hey, I played a console game once" qualify you to do now.

Shocking that some players MIGHT actually know somethings about finances, gaming, and business.

Didn't you know, that this is why WIS has been on slow development because players got all up in arms about DUST and WOD and INCARNA failing to deliver?! where the hell have you 2 been for the past year? didn't you know that players can sway the development plans of this company by voting with their dollars?! you 2 must be new around here

You have a perfect right to express your opinion, just like the person that started yesterday... just as long as your realize that the money you have spent doesn't lend any weight or validity to your opinion what so ever.

Oh there go idiots assuming they know something about me in real life again so they can say what i do and do not know. please continue to embarrass yourselves with your stupid assumptions.



INCONCEIVABLE! :P

It's a pretty easy assumption to make based on the half baked conclusions you have made in your posts.

yeah.. because the observed player retention patterns of past console FPS games, and the observed % of players who actually spend in a cash store are "half baked conclusions".


i certainly don't know everything about the gaming world, which is why i hope i am wrong and they have a good reason to think they'll buck the trend.

but if you absolutely have no ******* idea what you're talking about. shut up, adults are talking.

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust. A free to play shooter with a cash store that you hope will pay for itself and become a meaningful part of the EvE Universe. This is a laudable goal - creating a more complete game ecosystem. Fleet (EvE) does the flying and MI (Dust) does the dying and all that. It even sounds like fun. If it were a done right I wouldn't even begrudge you using our subscription dollars from EvE to do it - if it would eventually pay for itself. If it did eventually pay for itself EvE would get that money back, and that money would get spent improving EvE in the long run.

However you made a grave mistake in your demographics and market research and the conclusions you have drawn from it.

You went to consoles. You're trying to setup a game that is only long-term profitable via a cash store on the console platform. In the FPS Genre. Did you even read reports of how long console gamers stick to a single shooter? 3 months after you release Dust 514 you will have 90% less people playing it than on day 1.

There were only 64 million play stations shipped - let's assume an EXTREMELY GENEROUS 10% (6.4mil - note: the best selling PS3 game is Gran Turismo 5 at 7.43mil units) give Dust a try at launch. 90% attrition within three months you'll have 640k players. Sounds good right? waay more than eve, right? Wrong. Because they're not paying subscription fees. What percentage of them are going to buy things from the cash shop? How many much do you think you will bring in, per month, from Dust's cash shop.

How many years until Dust pays for itself and we EvE players see the money come back to EvE? How many subscriptions to EvE could you have gained instead had you invested that money into improving EvE and marketing it?

What are you going to do when a more likely less than 1million players even try Dust 514? What happens when your 90% attrition takes you down to 100k, what happens where a mere 10% of them spend money in the cash store EVER? Where is the Beef, CCP? What are you going to do to make Dust at least break even. When it INEVITABLY fails on the Console are you going to fast-port it to the PC and see if you can try to not completely loose your ass on it? On PC it might have a chance since PC FPS players have a longer attention span for a single game - they stick around longer if it is good. However even that might save it.

What happens to EvE and CCP if Dust fails? What happens to the subscription dollars that were diverted from iterating on EvE and were instead spent on dust? What awesome features did we miss out on because of Dust, and when will we see them?

CCP - you used your existing game to bankroll your new one. That in and of itself is not an issue, but when that game has a high chance of failcascading and said investment diverted from making our main game more awesome then you have some responsibility to the players of your main game.


Note: for comparison - Wii 96.56 million units shipped, Xbox 360 is 67.2 million units shipped

[edit]
I dropped this post then didn't get a change to respond to the thread for a while. for the record I HOPE I AM WRONG and that Dust bucks the console FPS player count trends.

[edit2]
Changed the title.. title was really more negative than i meant it to be.

You should already realize why "observed player retention" metrics of your typical FPS game has little or no bearing on the target audience for DUST, the underlying architecture and design principals are radically different from the titles you are (supposedly) drawing your assumptions from.

There is a huge amount of information becoming available for DUST and it's design model, with analysis being done by a number of noteworthy entities in the gaming industry... many of whom are coming up with similar prototypes that we will llikely see released over the next couple of years.

Is this something of a gamble?

Yes, radical advances in an established industry are always a gamble.

Are the odds for success good?

Considering the gameplay available in the Beta, DUSTS persistent nature, free to play with frequent free downloadable updates, and the huge groundswell of excitement and interest among the leaders of the gaming industry... I'd say the odds are better than average.

Why do you care what CCP does with their money? As long as they keep the servers on for EVE and continue to update it what difference does it make? Seriously this is like buying a Bigmac and then complaining that McDonalds is working on a new burger.

... at the local game store nobody there had even heard of EvE or Dust

Most of the threads in General Discussion can be successfully countered with this direct line of thinking.

Nobody? How do you know? Where you there? If you were there, and you *know* about EVE and DUST, then the word "nobody" is incorrect.

pedantic **** :P nobody but me. i brought them up.

I scoffed at the decision to put out a console shooter for a niche game like eve, but seeing the longevity of the Left for Dead community on xbox has given me some small hope that this will actually fly longterm. My wife's been playing LFD2 for a bloody long time now, and that community is still going. Valve even just added more content to it.

I thought CCP's stated goal with Dust was to reach an audience as different from EVE's current playerbase as possible. One of them said something like that during the Alliance Tournament, anyway.

Actually never thought of it that way. So you're saying Dust will introduce EVE to players who would otherwise have never come in contact with EVE and might find out that EVE is fun to play. In a sense graduating to EVE as gamers.
If only 10% of that massive console market that will play Dust would transfer to EVE and become subscribers we might be all in for a golden age.

Thank you for giving me hope where I saw none _o_ :).

I have a lot of friends who play consoles, with a few exceptions most of them would have to buy a computer to play EvE. The computers they have are mostly ****** and old and they are more interested in buying an iPad than a new PC in 2012.

Also btw not one person I know plays on PS, all XBox users, I would like to play Dust but if I was going to buy a console I would go xBox so I could play with my friends.

I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?

I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust.

I have already moved onto a new game... World of Warcraft... after 6 years avoiding it its actualy dare i say it... good?

If you love something its not uncommon to feel responsible for it, but it makes you feel like an owner then your too close.

CCP is a corporation, corporations dont give money back.

[...]I know over 50 people that will be on dust[...]

half don't even own ps3s and plan to buy one just becaus of dust.

dust is more similar to all previous FPSes than it is different. asserting that previous FPS's player retention is irrelevant is simply bullshit.

and i have seen no huge outswell of enthusiasm from anyone but insiders. at the local game store nobody there had even heard of EvE or Dust - and i live in the greater seattle area!

Is it too extreme to think that Dust player data might end up different than most FPSs? CCP already has one game that defies normal trends and market logic.

Random theorycrafting on Dust longevity:

• Dust on PC is a possibility. Targeting one platform first is a good idea because it focuses on the fundamentals, which CCP has been burned in the past for not doing.
• If Dust is successful, maybe Microsoft will quit being so stubborn with its policies, and CCP will be the first company to advertise "360 vs PS3 gamers. Settle it here." Everyone wins.
• Unreal Engine is very flexible. I imagine UE4 Dust on PS4 will happen eventually. Then you won't need compatibility.
• Not sure about Vita's netplay capabilities, but full Dust on Vita seems possible. Another industry first.
• Slow and steady is great MMO design philosophy, and I'm glad CCP is taking this approach. Dust will probably have an initial spike, then level off. But those players might come back years later to see what's new, like they do with EVE.
• Graphics and presentation can always be polished. As long as gameplay fundamentals are there, CCP has a winner.

Disclosure: Haven't played Dust. Really want to. Glad the MAG community has somewhere to go...

I think it's going to depend on whether Dust players have an impact on the larger EVE world, and whether that draws them in.

So CCP, you've used our subscription money to siphon away to create dust. A free to play shooter with a cash store that you hope will pay for itself and become a meaningful part of the EvE Universe. This is a laudable goal - creating a more complete game ecosystem. Fleet (EvE) does the flying and MI (Dust) does the dying and all that. It even sounds like fun. If it were a done right I wouldn't even begrudge you using our subscription dollars from EvE to do it - if it would eventually pay for itself. If it did eventually pay for itself EvE would get that money back, and that money would get spent improving EvE in the long run.

However you made a grave mistake in your demographics and market research and the conclusions you have drawn from it.