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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2011.01.11 05:02:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Aelius Extracted directly from one of those FREE to play games forums:
Quote: Botting, macros, everything you need to know.
Postby toastgodsupreme on Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:48 am PERCEPTION IS REALITY! That means if you look like a bot, fight like a bot, react like a bot, and respond like a bot, then you must be a bot. It doesn't matter if you're using a third party program to do it, or the in game macros, or some special keyboard with macros. A bot, is a bot, is a bot.
So what do we consider botting? If you are AFK while your character is doing one of the following, and unable to respond to a GM's requests then you are considered a bot:
* Changing targets and attacking. * Using skills/items. * Looting items. * Gathering items.
So let me be very clear once again... IF YOU ARE AFK AND YOUR CHARACTER IS DOING ONE OF THOSE THINGS IN THE LIST, YOU ARE CONSIDERED BOTTING.
There is absolutely no visual difference from you being afk and using macros and you using a bot. Each can use skills, loot, and change targets. So stop being ******s about it and thinking you're slick. If your character is playing the game and you are AFK, YOU ARE BOTTING AND WILL BE JAILED FOREVER IF/WHEN YOU ARE CAUGHT. :roll:
All of this is common sense really. But SOME of you need it spelled out for you. So here it is, VERY clearly spelled out. And from now on, unless Erb or Goog challenges one of my jailings, I will no longer provide screenshots or videos to players. By now you should all know that I don't jail people for botting without solid proof.
Oh, and the excuse of "well, I let my friend/cousin/brother/sister/etc play my account" will ALWAYS fail. Plain and simple. YOU are responsible for your account and all actions taken on it by anyone you choose to let play on it.
Now CCP if even free to play games have found the solution, don't tell us that you can't... unless... as they are free to play they aren't afraid of losing money on the accounts they ban, which you can't say the same. Right CCP?!
WoW has a somewhat similiar rule
Back in the glorius days of grind grind grind (not that its any different now), I use to end up in a small cave in western feralas, this area use to be rich for golden pearls which sold nicely.
During this time GMs contacted me on more than one occasion and we always got in a nice conversation, I did ask "hmm so why did you contact me?" each time and got replies like "health & safety really, just seeing if everything is ok since you have been online for a bit".
Obviously he wanted to see if I was a bot but couldnt say that, anyway with 450+ supercarriers getting pumped out a month I dont think this is something that should be ignored or marked as 'low priority'.
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
Alara IonStorm
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Posted - 2011.01.11 05:05:00 -
[602]
600th Super Snipe
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Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.11 05:10:00 -
[603]
"fed"
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Liliane Woodhead
Intergalactic Charwomen
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Posted - 2011.01.11 06:01:00 -
[604]
Edited by: Liliane Woodhead on 11/01/2011 06:04:45 Edited by: Liliane Woodhead on 11/01/2011 06:03:42 Good Evening, EVE General Discussion .. i am german that "giggles" translate to hi hi fo huuuuhahahahah hihiho or something.
Fangirl on~ I love the way they do ( esp. Oveur ) Fangirl off~
A tip from me .... just play that game one year not. ( you believe now that i am german ? grammar )
That opens your mind for a fresh new way that can only give "Hakle feucht" or Eve to you.
Excuse me for the german things .... i am not german, no :P
*edit*: I hope you can see through it. "I am german is a quote." **edit**: Is a quote!
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:38:00 -
[605]
Trader bot publically released...another game element screwed by macroers. Well I guess it was pretty boring anyway (same with ratting and mining).
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Tornan
Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:04:00 -
[606]
CCP likes bots
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DR Blues
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:21:00 -
[607]
There is a simple solution to reduce botting and that is to make ratting and mining more exploration dependable. It's harder to run scripts when you need to scan first. More sites and less belts in local.
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Othran
Ad Infernum
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Posted - 2011.01.13 07:51:00 -
[608]
Edited by: Othran on 13/01/2011 07:51:37
Originally by: Tornan CCP likes bots
A little unfair perhaps?
The truth of the matter however is that CCP doesn't care about bots which are not directly involved in RMT.
That is the only conclusion a reasonable person can make. I know I'm never wasting my time raising another petition on the matter anyway.
Anybody who asks me about Eve now gets told that its unlikely they will ever be able to compete with established players/corps (well botters really). Nothing to do with SP. Everything to do with ISK "earned" while you're not even in the same room/building as the client.
Do the newbies/potential players a favour and tell them the truth - there really is no point in most of them wasting their time trying to play Eve "honestly".
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Dev Jah
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Posted - 2011.01.13 10:52:00 -
[609]
Trying to figure out whether to play eve or not I wanted to know how other new players felt about bots so I made another thread about bots in the new players forum that got locked.
Originally by: Dev Jah Notes: Players who are not using bots directly or indirectly do not benefit from any kind of botting in any way at all. I've read some arguments about bots causing cheaper prices on ships and so on. Well, if you're mentally challenged you might very well believe so. But its not right, CCP would only have to increase the speed of mining/reduce material cost of production etc etc if they find the current market of EVE desirable, if botting would all of a sudden disappear.
Originally by: ShahFluffers Once the bot has enough ore/minerals collected, it dumps it on the market. With the flood of new ores/minerals the market becomes "saturated" and thus prices fall (supply is exceeding demand). With the cheaper prices for ores/minerals the cost to build ships, modules, and various other things becomes less expensive... and so THEIR prices fall as well. ... To touch on what you said... about CCP modifying the yields and/or production costs... it doesn't work. If you increase the production costs of things, more bots are created to compensate and actual players that specialize in mining and industry get the shaft (as they have to modify their entire production lines). If you decrease the yields that you can mine, the bots will spread out and cover more ground to make up for the loss.
What I meant was, if CCP would magically somehow find a way to remove 100% of the bots at once, the incoming supply of materials probably would get cut down. Lets say 50%, however if CCP was happy with how the market was balanced when the bots were active all they then would have to do would be to decrease the material cost of production by 50% or increase mining yield or something, to offset the reduction of materials. Even with how it looks today like you say bots flooding the market causing cheaper prices, if you ever conduct any sort of pvp at all your eventually gonna stumble upon some of the bot users who will, compared to you, have limitless funds.
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.13 11:09:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Dev Jah What I meant was, if CCP would magically somehow find a way to remove 100% of the bots at once, the incoming supply of materials probably would get cut down. Lets say 50%, however if CCP was happy with how the market was balanced when the bots were active all they then would have to do would be to decrease the material cost of production by 50% or increase mining yield or something, to offset the reduction of materials.
this.
so many people who buy into the "sandbox" marketing and don't seem to realize that CCP can engineer any economic equilibrium it deems to be desirable.
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2011.01.13 11:13:00 -
[611]
Have you ever seen that southpark episode where they try to kill Walmart? They can't quite get to the back of the Walmart so they can destroy the mirror because the deals are "just to good?"
Bots are kind of like this...
Traders and miners want them gone so they can make more profits and increase market prices. I on the other hand have 0 interests in trading, mining or the .01 mini-game. People like myself, which constitutes a vast portion of the EVE Community mind you, truly benefit from a saturated market filled with cheap crap.
Removing of Bots will make me have to pay more in the Market Place. Why would I want that to happen?
I Don't Live In 0.0 But If I Did...
I probably would like all those POS's fueled now wouldn't I? I mean, I don't want to fuel those things, but I bet someone out there might want to it for my CEO for Tree-fifty real life monies now wouldn't they? I might also like the sweet area of Null Sec that I was ISK whoring in [RMT Purchased Diplomacy], and I might also like the unending train of Supercapitals that I get to fly [RMT Purchased Epeen]
People make millions of dollars in MMO's like second-life, and it is natural that people will figure out how to fly under the radar and do it here too. It is fueled by the egos and greed of the oldest players in the game, hording Tech II BPO's and herding sheep like you into battle so they can mine moon goo.
You want to end RMT? Then mass drop your alliance and turn 0.0 into a everyman for himself free-for all
You want to end Bots? Build your own crap and don't make other people do it for you.
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sarah mcjimmy
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Posted - 2011.01.13 18:37:00 -
[612]
needless bump
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.01.13 21:56:00 -
[613]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 13/01/2011 21:59:12
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian People like myself, which constitutes a vast portion of the EVE Community mind you, truly benefit from a saturated market filled with cheap crap. Removing of Bots will make me have to pay more in the Market Place. Why would I want that to happen?
You're missing something here, something that can be characterised by the term 'cheap crap'. The cheaper things become the more crap they seem to you, if T2 cruisers are cheap enough for you to lose one every day and not care then you get bored of them quickly.
Alternatively if you can only afford to lose one T2 cruiser each month then it becomes special to fly one, it's that ship you've been saving for weeks to buy and the rush of taking it in to combat.
The only thing that 'a saturated market filled with cheap crap' does for the average player is devalue the game experience. I'd happily see prices quadruple and T1 cruisers become something more than a laughing stock in 0.0 fleets again, battleships be a pain to lose and supercaps become rare.
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
I Don't Live In 0.0 But If I Did...
I probably would like all those POS's fuelled now wouldn't I? I mean, I don't want to fuel those things, but I bet someone out there might want to it for my CEO for Tree-fifty real life monies now wouldn't they? I might also like the sweet area of Null Sec that I was ISK whoring in [RMT Purchased Diplomacy], and I might also like the unending train of Supercapitals that I get to fly [RMT Purchased Epeen]
Or you could make do with a quarter the number of posses, lets face it they're pretty horrible things, it staggers me that so many people can be bothered with them.
As for the endless stream of supercaps, that's fine in alliance warfare but when SC's are being dropped on FW pubbies in rifters you know there's a problem.
To borrow your terminology it's not 'RMT Purchased Epeen' so much as RMT influenced impotence. If you need a fleet of supercaps to get your epeen up then you'll be in need of some viagra soon.
Bots do not enhance the game for your average player in any shape or form. Quite the opposite. _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Berikath
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:19:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Othran Edited by: Othran on 13/01/2011 07:51:37
Originally by: Tornan CCP likes bots
A little unfair perhaps?
The truth of the matter however is that CCP doesn't care about bots which are not directly involved in RMT or causing disproportionately large server loads.
Fixed that for ya. They don't like having to buy bigger servers, either.
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ] |
yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:50:00 -
[615]
Something that I'd love to get an answer to is this: What is the impact of botting on your average Joe? Does anyone have a speculation on the quantities of isk and minerals brought in to the game through botting? _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:57:00 -
[616]
A metric **** ton of ISK is brought in, more than legitimate players account for. Constant 0.0 ratting dwarfs any sort of mission whoring over time. You would think inflation would happen right? Bots are also producing a metric **** ton of building materials but not as much compared to bounties.
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Nuhm DeAra
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:00:00 -
[617]
FIX THE TITLE OF THE THREAD.
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MataHarry
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:13:00 -
[618]
yes stop rmt and botting somehow !
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Rubet Gold
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:15:00 -
[619]
Currency NO-Trade
All Items NO-Trade
RMT Gone
Bots Gone
That is All.....
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:30:00 -
[620]
Originally by: yani dumyat The term 'cheap crap'. The cheaper things become the more crap they seem to you, if T2 cruisers are cheap enough for you to lose one every day and not care then you get bored of them quickly.
Alternatively if you can only afford to lose one T2 cruiser each month then it becomes special to fly one, it's that ship you've been saving for weeks to buy and the rush of taking it in to combat.
Vastly incorrect... I would prefer much cheaper tech II cruiser, and I would not get bored burning up Vagabonds everyday. Nor would the people who are like me. They are more fun to fly, and thus a world where people are in them more often appeals to me.
on top of that, I am very much aware of what the markup on Vagabonds are. Builders are getting away with highway robbery now, even with the bots.
Originally by: yani dumyat Or you could make do with a quarter the number of posses, lets face it they're pretty horrible things, it staggers me that so many people can be bothered with them.
As for the endless stream of supercaps, that's fine in alliance warfare but when SC's are being dropped on FW pubbies in rifters you know there's a problem.
To borrow your terminology it's not 'RMT Purchased Epeen' so much as RMT influenced impotence. If you need a fleet of supercaps to get your epeen up then you'll be in need of some viagra soon.
This is 100% on CCP and has nothing to do with Bots or RMT. CCP balances the game mechanics, and not only are they OK with FW pubbies dropping SC's they are making Faction Versions of those SC's and (rumor has it) even larger Hive ships to enhance the blobs of 0.0.
RMT and Bots are merely an after effect of the direction that CCP has taken this game. You know, that law of Physics called "Cause and Effect?"
Originally by: yani dumyat
Bots do not enhance the game for your average player in any shape or form. Quite the opposite.
Yes they do, because a 1 day old character can fly to Jita and literally buy ANYTHING if they have enough ISK. This was not even possible when EVE was first created. Bots could actually be considered a control mechanism to keep market manipulation at a reasonable ground floor.
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Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:52:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
RMT and Bots are merely an after effect of the direction that CCP has taken this game. You know, that law of Physics called "Cause and Effect?"
Too true. CCP changed course and courted the kiddies that are more interested in having the bigger better thing and having it now, rather than those that enjoy earning achievement more than having it.
CCP asked for it & now they have it.
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Dev Jah
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:27:00 -
[622]
I like how this thread has been selected to be the one and only thread about botting, with a great thread title and really informative OP post. /sarcasm
Originally by: yani dumyat Something that I'd love to get an answer to is this: What is the impact of botting on your average Joe? Does anyone have a speculation on the quantities of isk and minerals brought in to the game through botting?
I have no idea about actual quantities and values, but this is how it works out in the end I believe:
Lets say there are 100 players, each player having the average income = x. So each player makes the same amount of income x, 1% of the total income each, no one bots and they are all equally competitive in relation to time invested.
Now lets say 10% of the player base starts botting resulting in 10 times the income of the normal player base, that is 10 players making 10x each.
We now have 90 players making a total of 90x and 10 players making a total of 100x through botting, amounting to 190x total. 10 players covering 52% of the market through cheating, 90 players covering 47% of the market through legit playing.
Now each income X is no longer 1% of the total income, each income X is instead 100/190 = 0,526...% of the total income. A normal player is now 0,526% competitive compared to a botter being 10 times as competetive, 5,26%.
These are values pulled out of my ass, it's a lot simplified and probably (somewhat) flawed
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Doctor Steinsbrow
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:34:00 -
[623]
*makes some noise* |\<o>/| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| \|CCP|/ -|||||||- -|||||||- ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK WARP INTO MORDOR J7HZ-F! |
Dev Jah
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:33:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Traders and miners want them gone so they can make more profits and increase market prices. I on the other hand have 0 interests in trading, mining or the .01 mini-game. People like myself, which constitutes a vast portion of the EVE Community mind you, truly benefit from a saturated market filled with cheap crap.
Removing of Bots will make me have to pay more in the Market Place. Why would I want that to happen? ... on top of that, I am very much aware of what the markup on Vagabonds are. Builders are getting away with highway robbery now, even with the bots. Rolling Eyes
So because you don't think its fair or whatever that there are players playing the market through implemented game features and mechanism, bots are justified? Never mind botters using external programs to read/modify the eve-client and automate actions Relatively, you are not gaining any advantage over anybody else, you are however at a huge disadvantage to players who are directly or indirectly benefiting from botting. Yes you might get the new ship of the line in order to conduct higher levels off pve'ing faster, but at the same time you will probably get bored faster. Conduction pvp'ing you're gaining no advantage over other legit players, though huge disadvantages against botters...
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Vastly incorrect... I would prefer much cheaper tech II cruiser, and I would not get bored burning up Vagabonds everyday. Nor would the people who are like me. They are more fun to fly, and thus a world where people are in them more often appeals to me. ... Yes they do, because a 1 day old character can fly to Jita and literally buy ANYTHING if they have enough ISK. This was not even possible when EVE was first created. Bots could actually be considered a control mechanism to keep market manipulation at a reasonable ground floor.
Not a valid argument to justify botters... Read:
Originally by: Dev Jah What I meant was, if CCP would magically somehow find a way to remove 100% of the bots at once, the incoming supply of materials probably would get cut down. Lets say 50%, however if CCP was happy with how the market was balanced when the bots were active all they then would have to do would be to decrease the material cost of production by 50% or increase mining yield or something, to offset the reduction of materials.
Botters are gone, you're still able to use the same amount of space pixels while you don't have to deal with huge disadvantages with players who bot.
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian This is 100% on CCP and has nothing to do with Bots or RMT. CCP balances the game mechanics, and not only are they OK with FW pubbies dropping SC's they are making Faction Versions of those SC's and (rumor has it) even larger Hive ships to enhance the blobs of 0.0.
RMT and Bots are merely an after effect of the direction that CCP has taken this game. You know, that law of Physics called "Cause and Effect?"
So what? Does this somehow justify bots? Would eve not be a better game would all botting be gone?
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:36:00 -
[625]
Could add some PB type software that checks to see for client tampering/scripting. Thats essentially what bots are is conditional scripts.
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:55:00 -
[626]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 14/01/2011 01:56:52
Originally by: Dev Jah Stuff... Lots
Never did I say Bots were justified... I merely stated basic facts.
Go back and read it better.
I don't build, bot, trade, manufacture, mine or run missions... I just casually PVP. I do not like Bots or RMT either, but that does not mean that ultimately both things being in this game do not benefit me and people like me.
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Dev Jah
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Posted - 2011.01.14 02:14:00 -
[627]
Well then I must have misunderstood you, though what I was trying to say is that you do not ultimately benefit of it, especially if all you do is pvp. Or well, if you get a lot of easy, juice targets thanks botters not knowing how to play spending a lot on their ships lol
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Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
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Posted - 2011.01.14 08:30:00 -
[628]
What are you guys babbling about? Botters are the ****nit... They keep New Eden supplied with resources with little to no effort what-so-ever. Thank goodness CCP allows players to purchase such resources with real currency... If only we can get this game to go F2P.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.14 09:39:00 -
[629]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 14/01/2011 09:43:19
Quote:
People like myself, which constitutes a vast portion of the EVE Community mind you, truly benefit from a saturated market filled with cheap crap
Benefitting off a saturated market filled with cheap crap and having generally no "death penalty" was the premise at the foundation of Warhammer Online.
As beta player, I have seen it tank HARD exactly because of its foundation.
You only get long term satisfaction and ultimately subscriptions if you have the thrill of achieving something that can cost you dearly. Not the other way around.
Edit:
Of course CCP are going to tolerate botting and people with your mentality now, they started some time ago once they understood the game is nearing its peak life cycle. They want to squeeze out the most money before EvE starts to decline (very slowly I hope, it's still a beautyful concept game).
They need idiots inadequate to win in this game but with big RL wallets to join and let them feed their next products so they can plan their long term company future.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Faile Leahan
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Posted - 2011.01.14 11:40:00 -
[630]
I had mostly been avoiding this topic but as things have transpired I felt I should add my bit.
Botters in essence increase "supply". The advantage is such that they are able to operate at say 3x the speed of an average player. When coupled with multiple account this can go up to I would estimate to 9x.
So, a botter is able to deliver about 9x what a normal player can from my estimations. Now I see alot of posts on here who fear what it would do to their eve economy.
If all the botters were to be banned yes supply of goods would drop. Significantly I believe. As we have all been told and seen in life. When supply exceeds demand then competitive suppliers drop their prices. When demand exceeds supply it pushes up prices however it also gives rise to something else, something called opportunity.
From what I have seen prices in eve dont seem to fluctuate that often. If 5 alliances were building 3 titans each at the same time the materials required would hardly be a drop in the ocean to the overall eve economy and the excessive industry supply we see right now. In my opinion this is not an ideal situation.
As prices of ships shot through the roof if all botters were banned then it is in the legitimate industry players who benefit. The people who would ultimately lose are mission runners. Their income is fairly fixed between bounties, LP, salvage and loot. Their isk wouldn't stretch as far as it does now.
anyhow. Thats my 5 cents
I would however like to point out we may have to give ccp a medal for this. The honest man is complaining that he cannot make an honest buck or produce as much as a robot can, and this is how far into the future?
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