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WE ARE FEED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 63 post(s)
Ban Doga	Posted - 2011.03.04 15:55:00 - [1561] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Originally by: Ban Doga Originally by: CCP Sreegs Now that I have some solid dates it made sense to post again. Are those "solid dates" contained somewhere in your reply? I don't think I saw any. It helps to read little more from thread than just last page... friendly hint Thank you for your friendly hint. I can assure you I read every reply from a CCP official in this post (http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1426740/author/CCP). However I still didn't find anything that matches my definition of "solid dates" (maybe this was supposed to be the announcement for FF), which probably indicates that I expect something else behind that phrase. Sorry, but your friendly hint didn't help at all.
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:02:00 - [1562] Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:03:12 I do not understand why so many people hate bottters, when the game has PLEX and everyone can RMT as much as they want legitamelty through CCP's hands? Everyone with RL money can have unlimated isk, so I dont exactly understand why so many are complaining about the unfair advantage they have. Eve isn't really a competitive mmo at all, because it is both P2P and has a cash shop (PLEX) It's basically a pay to win game that you also have to pay for monthly.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:18:00 - [1563] Originally by: CCP Sreegs this problem was being addressed long before this thread ever existed. C) This problem was also being addressed long before anyone's blog wrote about it. If you read through this thread, youll note that all that addressing youve done previously added up to nothing more than to **** off everyone here, so your new measures had better be HUGE ...and done give us the "whoa dont aim too high buddy" crap cause till now, "working on it" as you say youve been doing = NOTHING. "The problem was addressed long before..." what does "was addressed" mean exactly? Cause, again, read the thread. Apparently "addressed" is insufficient. ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Bhattran	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:35:00 - [1564] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:03:12 I do not understand why so many people hate bottters, when the game has PLEX and everyone can RMT as much as they want legitamelty through CCP's hands? Everyone with RL money can have unlimated isk, so I dont exactly understand why so many are complaining about the unfair advantage they have. Eve isn't really a competitive mmo at all, because it is both P2P and has a cash shop (PLEX) It's basically a pay to win game that you also have to pay for monthly. If you are actually honest about your question the answer is in this thread and similar ones that are probably locked by now or just archived, some of the RMT/plex issues were also addressed in the microtranaction threads. Honestly it has been discussed from everyone's POV plex=rmt plex=rmt (with strings), plex!=rmt, and so on. Your summation is partially correct on numerous other levels that have nothing to do with Pay to play and the 'non competitive' aspect BUT going on your premise should players accept the 'unfairness' from bots AS well as all the other issues? I and I think most if not all the people who want CCP to work harder on fighitng botting would say no we shouldn't accept players cheating there are enough 'legitimate' ways to get ahead. --WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.--
Durnin Stormbrow	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:39:00 - [1565] Originally by: G 0 D I do not understand why so many people hate bottters, when the game has PLEX and everyone can RMT as much as they want legitamelty through CCP's hands? This has to be a troll, right? If you really don't understand the issue, there's 52 pages of people going into the details of the problem right here; talking about how bots screw up the economy, feed RMT, drive corruption in the game, and skew the game toward becoming an arena game called Capitols Online. How Plex for isk and RMT works into the problem has been detailed many times as well.
G 0 D	Posted - 2011.03.04 17:46:00 - [1566] Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow Originally by: G 0 D I do not understand why so many people hate bottters, when the game has PLEX and everyone can RMT as much as they want legitamelty through CCP's hands? This has to be a troll, right? If you really don't understand the issue, there's 52 pages of people going into the details of the problem right here; talking about how bots screw up the economy, feed RMT, drive corruption in the game, and skew the game toward becoming an arena game called Capitols Online. How Plex for isk and RMT works into the problem has been detailed many times as well. I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game.
Dariah Stardweller Gallente NO U111 Enterprises	Posted - 2011.03.04 18:58:00 - [1567] Originally by: G 0 D Edited by: G 0 D on 04/03/2011 17:03:12 I do not understand why so many people hate bottters, when the game has PLEX and everyone can RMT as much as they want legitamelty through CCP's hands? Everyone with RL money can have unlimated isk, so I dont exactly understand why so many are complaining about the unfair advantage they have. I have no problems with RMT, I DO have severe problems with bots though. It's cheating and brings trouble to game balance.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.04 19:33:00 - [1568] Originally by: G 0 D I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game. my question: how is people having more money a more unfair advantage than people having more time to play?
Vincent Athena	Posted - 2011.03.04 19:37:00 - [1569] Originally by: G 0 D I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. To some extent its a question of magnitude. You cannot buy unlimited isk, the amount you can buy is limited by how much money you have. The amount of isk you can get via RMT or by buying and using a bot is larger, sometimes far larger, then the amount you get via PLEX. So the player who gets isk by cheating has an advantage over those who do not cheat. We do not want eve to become a "you must cheat to win" game. Another issue is the cheating itself. If a person is willing to cheat on something as trivial as a game, how can you trust them to obey the rules when it counts?
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.03.04 19:43:00 - [1570] Originally by: G 0 D Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow Originally by: G 0 D I do not understand why so many people hate bottters, when the game has PLEX and everyone can RMT as much as they want legitamelty through CCP's hands? This has to be a troll, right? If you really don't understand the issue, there's 52 pages of people going into the details of the problem right here; talking about how bots screw up the economy, feed RMT, drive corruption in the game, and skew the game toward becoming an arena game called Capitols Online. How Plex for isk and RMT works into the problem has been detailed many times as well. I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game. lol

Xelena Shellar	Posted - 2011.03.04 20:07:00 - [1571] Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: G 0 D I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game. my question: how is people having more money a more unfair advantage than people having more time to play? The real question here is 'Who ever told all these people that EVE was fair?" EVE is by design the most terribly unfair MMO out there, it is part of its charm :P
Sitara Minmatar Solar Flare Trade and Production	Posted - 2011.03.04 20:26:00 - [1572] Originally by: G 0 D I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game. Signed and the biggest reason none of my characters play the 'big 0.0 PvP game' anymore and I just resub for a month or two here and there these days
Sitara Minmatar Solar Flare Trade and Production	Posted - 2011.03.04 20:45:00 - [1573] Originally by: Arnakoz that is a conundrum - because the purpose of plex is to create an effective exchange rate of ISK/$. You see, as the ISK value of PLEX goes up, the value of the isk in real money goes down; because who is going to pay $20 for 500M, and take a risk, when they could buy a PLEX for $15 and get 450M. so what CCP did was cut the profitability of the RMT guys in half. plus, people who may have otherwise gone to the RMT guys now have a method of legally obtaining isk with real $; further decreasing the rewards of botting/RMT. but i do see you're point. there is something ultimately unfair about the fact that people with real cash will go vastly further than those without. but we would still have the problem that those same people could have still gone to the RMT guys - thus plex isn't really the problem. it is that plex needs to exist in the first place. personally i think PLEX was genius. and i'm not even one who can afford them (in RL or in game...) I hear what you're saying and I also understand (but disagree with) the way CCP attempt to justify plex and GTC sales over so called 'RMT' in terms of flows of RL cash and isk. However from what I've experienced the main impact of these has been to turn RMT (by my definition which is any purchase of isk for RL cash) from a secretive and relatively dangerous passtime to the 'norm'. I could easily afford to buy billions of isk but dont - the situation is for me analogous to the old moral 'lesson' about a medal - you can win one in a competition in which case it means something or you could pop down to the medal shop and buy one (in which case its meaningless). Now that's my view and others may disagree - (its the same reason I've never in a long gaming career used 'cheat codes' in single player games). Now in single player games its not an issue - the only person you're competing with is yourself - if someone is the type who likes to cheat at solitaire and convince themselves they're uber then fine, whatever floats their boat. However, in an MMO setting, particularly a PvP centric one any form of RMT 'un-levels' the playing field and I lose interest for the same reason I would choose not to play any 'rigged' game.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:27:00 - [1574] Originally by: Xelena Shellar The real question here is 'Who ever told all these people that EVE was fair?" EVE is by design the most terribly unfair MMO out there, it is part of its charm :P this is actually my point. to me all of this bot and RMT talk is mute and mere whining. b/c when you really think about it even if it were all fixed the game would still be exactly the same. the market may shift, but ends profits will be about the same and people will still find something useless to complain about being unfair.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.03.04 21:46:00 - [1575] Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: Xelena Shellar The real question here is 'Who ever told all these people that EVE was fair?" EVE is by design the most terribly unfair MMO out there, it is part of its charm :P this is actually my point. to me all of this bot and RMT talk is mute and mere whining. b/c when you really think about it even if it were all fixed the game would still be exactly the same. the market may shift, but ends profits will be about the same and people will still find something useless to complain about being unfair. Not exactly. If supercaps were no longer essentially free for the mega alliances, there would be more opportunity for conflict without fear of a super-carrier fleet getting hotdropped on your solo rifter.
Sito Jaxa	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:15:00 - [1576] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: Xelena Shellar The real question here is 'Who ever told all these people that EVE was fair?" EVE is by design the most terribly unfair MMO out there, it is part of its charm :P this is actually my point. to me all of this bot and RMT talk is mute and mere whining. b/c when you really think about it even if it were all fixed the game would still be exactly the same. the market may shift, but ends profits will be about the same and people will still find something useless to complain about being unfair. Not exactly. If supercaps were no longer essentially free for the mega alliances, there would be more opportunity for conflict without fear of a super-carrier fleet getting hotdropped on your solo rifter. As an alternative to expecting CCP to rebalance the game for your rifter you could just disengage and warp away from the supercap fleet. You can't fight every time you see an enemy in this game. You have to know your strengths and weaknesses. You have to be a little smarter then average or at least join a fleet with a smarter then average FC. Big alliances will always hold tech moons, make bank on their share of taxes, and have stupid amounts of ISK. Botting just extends the capfest one notch down the ladder.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.04 22:30:00 - [1577] Edited by: Arnakoz on 04/03/2011 22:31:52 Originally by: mkmin Not exactly. If supercaps were no longer essentially free for the mega alliances, there would be more opportunity for conflict without fear of a super-carrier fleet getting hotdropped on your solo rifter. i still contend that botting isn't the main stay of large alliances' income. i'm sure they do it. but i doubt that compared to their moon and t2 bpo/t3 production income it isn't much more than supplemental. add in renters, contracts, fees, (normal) ratting, playing hi v null markets... the more t2 bpos owned the harder it would be to match. I mean, from what i understand one bot earns about as much as a moon or two per month. these large alliances have access to thousands of moons. do you figure they are going to run thousands of bots? maybe upwards of a hundred - but i think even that would be extreme. further, the longer an alliance has been around, the more supercaps they will have amassed. so even minus bots and RMT it will get to that same point regardless. it isn't like these alliance simply wouldn't never be able to afford more than one or two. no, every time they have a pilot ready for the seat and the funds available they will make another. lastly, RMT will always exist. even if it becomes back-room exchanges between buddies. thus some bored millionaire will have the same unfair advantage in game as he does out of game. i hate to keep repeating myself here, but its all pointless. to me the only valid argument is one colloquial to steroid use - you have morals and shouldn't be at a disadvantage to those who don't. but considering that the very nature of this game attracts intelligent risk taking types, good luck getting rid of it.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.03.04 23:11:00 - [1578] Originally by: Xelena Shellar Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: G 0 D I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game. my question: how is people having more money a more unfair advantage than people having more time to play? The real question here is 'Who ever told all these people that EVE was fair?" EVE is by design the most terribly unfair MMO out there, it is part of its charm :P This is such a stupid argument. EvE is fair. It always has been fair. Fair means everyone has the same chance. What you are talking about is its harshness. Theres nothing in EvE that you cannot avoid using ingame mechanics except RMT and botting. Botting is unfair because its outside the rules of the game, which you agree to abide by when you sign up. Its something that you cannot avoid or counter unless you yourself break the rules of the game and bot. To say that botting is okay because EvE is a harsh game is garbage. Botting takes the harshness of EvE and throws it in the toilet. With the ISK stream from botting behind you you are simply playing a respawn reship game without harshness or penalty. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Richard Aiel Caldari GloboTech Industries	Posted - 2011.03.05 00:43:00 - [1579] Originally by: Arnakoz Originally by: G 0 D I am very serious. I don't understand why someone botting is any different than someone buying isk from CCP. Both completely kill the competetive aspect of the game. my question: how is people having more money a more unfair advantage than people having more time to play? lol how many times has this question gone round and round in this thread? ----------------------------------------- If you dont learn from the past you are doomed to repeat it http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1469262&page=2#51
Elyssa MacLeod	Posted - 2011.03.05 01:40:00 - [1580] I find it funny that Riverini is making all this "noise" about botting ans such and is planning on writing and publishing a botting guide on the EVE 24 site. He apparently doesnt care about the issue as much as he does about making it worse.

Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.03.05 07:01:00 - [1581] Originally by: Infinity Ziona This is such a stupid thread Fixt as apparently we were all duped for 50 pages Nice advertising scheme Riverini ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
PC l0adletter	Posted - 2011.03.05 07:16:00 - [1582] Originally by: CCP Sreegs A) Every thread with people posting in it isn't a "threadnaught" B) As I've said, and will be made crystal clear at FF when I can show timelines, this problem was being addressed long before this thread ever existed. C) This problem was also being addressed long before anyone's blog wrote about it. D) I did respond with the best response I could a while back and that really didn't change anything. I don't think it does any of us any good to continue wasting our time shouting into the wind. If people do not want to listen I can't force them to. Now that I have some solid dates it made sense to post again. A) Was that the claim? That this is a threadnaught because people are posting in it? I can't help but notice we're on 53 pages here. Also, the topic is: things CCP are screwing up, as opposed to, say, how excited we are about space barbie. Is that, maybe, a threadnaught? Might even be in siege mode. B-D) 82 bots were reported, 20 of them were banned for one day, and only after the article was published a week later were any of them banned for any longer. Are you seriously asking us to believe that was your plan all along, and the unfavorable news coverage had nothing to do with it? Seems a bit much, don't you think? I'm glad that you, personally, care. I hope when you tell your bosses, hey, turns out 3,000 accounts are logged in 23/7 and farming missions/ore/rats/whatever around the clock, that they say, okay, time to lose 3,000 subscribers and PCUs. I sure as hell won't be at fanfest, but I'll be very interested in whatever presentation/recording/whatever you wind up making. If it's followed thru on, it might even make me a fan again.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.05 08:23:00 - [1583] Originally by: Sito Jaxa As an alternative to expecting CCP to rebalance the game for your rifter you could just disengage and warp away from the supercap fleet. Ah yes, the old "just quit the game if you don't want to adapt to mandated botting"-argument. Didn't get any better the last 50 pages though. You might want to think of a better one.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:07:00 - [1584] Originally by: Batolemaeus Ah yes, the old "just quit the game if you don't want to adapt to mandated botting"-argument. lol "if you dont like it, quit" Such good marketting I think we tipped the balance of him talking to us again...
Ver Selam	Posted - 2011.03.05 09:37:00 - [1585] Why is this ****ing thread still kicking.
Sito Jaxa	Posted - 2011.03.05 13:50:00 - [1586] Originally by: Batolemaeus Edited by: Batolemaeus on 05/03/2011 08:31:05 Originally by: Sito Jaxa As an alternative to expecting CCP to rebalance the game for your rifter you could just disengage and warp away from the supercap fleet. Ah yes, the old "just quit the game if you don't want to adapt to mandated botting"-argument. Didn't get any better the last 50 pages though. You might want to think of a better one. Originally by: Arnakoz i still contend that botting isn't the main stay of large alliances' income. http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=86385&view=losses For Legion of xXDEATHXx it is. All kills achieved through means that no human ever got caught with. In an embarassing display of GM collusion/incompetence, they're still online. Another corp only had some of the bots banned after vuk himself had petitioned. Time for IA to get involved tbh. It is so easy to counter a bot supported alliance. You just have to know how to hit them where it hurts. Crying and waiting for ccp has got to be the least effective method at your disposal. I'm not saying 'quit the game if you don't like it,' I'm advocating adapting your tactics to the situation. Maybe you need better strategists.
Arnakoz	Posted - 2011.03.05 16:23:00 - [1587] Originally by: Batolemaeus http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=86385&view=losses For Legion of xXDEATHXx it is. All kills achieved through means that no human ever got caught with. In an embarassing display of GM collusion/incompetence, they're still online. Another corp only had some of the bots banned after vuk himself had petitioned. Time for IA to get involved tbh. eh, okay. i'll play the devil's advocate: so they have lost a lot badgers. what exactly does that indicate? each kill i looked at had a different fit, even for the same characters. which if a bot was auto-fitting, it wouldn't randomly try different fits. it only indicates to me that they want to move items despite war, but not lose $$ freighters in the process. that is exactly what i did MANUALLY when i was in atlas space being hounded by PL. we produced badgers and had a ton of them, and had a ton of stuff to move around; at first we would manually pilot stuff, but soon enough we didn't care about the limited risk compared to our sanity, and started just auto-piloting the trips. it may sound stupid, but we each only lost a load once out of every 10-20 trips. i personally never lost a single one. but i'm sure our kill boards looked about the same as these guys'. as for the ravens, all this tells me is that they mass produce ravens and figure (income - loss) is greater than no income. so they rat regardless. or at the least its a group of noobs that think they are entitled and protected in their space. lastly, some may bot, but based on the limited number of names that have more than a couple stupid losses i wouldn't say its many. http://rawr.eve-kill.net/?a=corp_detail&crp_id=86385&view=pilot_losses which goes back to my point - even 10 to 16 bots doesn't stack up against the income from the moons and probable T2 bpos they own . its at best supplemental and does not amount free supercaps.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.03.05 16:26:00 - [1588] Originally by: Arnakoz so they have lost a lot badgers. what exactly does that indicate? That their bots don't account for slingbubbles at the pos they safe up on if a hostile/neutral enters local, and that they definitely aren't operated by humans as they would never warp into something repeatedly anchored UNDER THEIR OWN EYES. So yes, they're all bots.
James Tiberius Kirk	Posted - 2011.03.05 17:32:00 - [1589] Edited by: James Tiberius Kirk on 05/03/2011 17:36:41 Originally by: EN24News Hai guyz! I found 60 bots, reported them all of them, here's indisputable proof Originally by: CCP Sreegs *we're doing everything we can* Originally by: EN24News All of them are active 23/7 again Does not compute.
Devil's Call Caldari	Posted - 2011.03.05 17:52:00 - [1590] STOP THE BOT! CANT STOP THE BOT! "You know whos alt wink wink nudge nudge"



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