Originally by: Shurikane

---

Edited by: Shurikane on 14/12/2010 13:14:17

Originally by: Othran

---

CCP can ban you for any reason they can think of. Doesn't matter whether they have proof or not.

---

They can. But they shouldn't. Unless they want to turn the "omg ccp iz doin nuffin" fanfare into a "omg ccp abuzin its powa" one.

Originally by: Othran

---

So lets deal with "proof" shall we? There is a clear record of all bounties awarded for killing npcs. Start there with the banstick.

---

No.

---

Originally by: Shurikane

---

Story time!

---

Originally by: Jack Gilligan

---

That system is a repeat offender... 9,612 NPC's killed in the last 3 hours equals 53, yes, FIFTY THREE NPC's killed every SECOND.

---

Originally by: Mashie Saldana

---

Originally by: Jack Gilligan

---

That system is a repeat offender... 9,612 NPC's killed in the last 3 hours equals 53, yes, FIFTY THREE NPC's killed every SECOND.

---

Math surely isn't your strongest side. It is 3600 seconds in an hour. *hint*

---

Originally by: ArchenTheGreat

---

If you do this for 23/7 than you are botting. And if not than you need a ****ing life and CCP will do you a favor by banning you anyway.

---

Originally by: Jack Gilligan

---

Example:

1. Map F-HQWV (Perrigen Falls) 9612

That system is a repeat offender... 9,612 NPC's killed in the last 3 hours equals 53, yes, FIFTY THREE NPC's killed every SECOND.

---

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside

---

Have they improved life in High Sec at all ? Have they reduced high sec income ? Have missions been forced into low sec ? Is there a continued effort to keep pushing what is left of high sec income down ?

---

Originally by: Manfred Sideous

---

#1 Wormholes I think have served as a good beta for removing local in other areas of Eve. I think the time has come to remove local from 0.0 and Low Sec. No data should be transmitted to the client when others enter a solar system. Perhaps a small rebuff to the scanner is in order adding more functionality to it. The trade off would be that constellation chat would function as local chat does now.

#2 All moon minerals should be moved to planetary interaction. This takes the isk out of the hands of large corporations and alliances and places it in the hands of the player. Social paradigms in Eve will adjust to this change trust me. This will also strengthen the bond between Eve players and Dust players. Something I think that CCP would be interested in.

#3 All production should be moved to player operated stations ( POS). Well they need some reason to exist now due to point 2. Having outpost in 0.0 increases the production efficiency of a POS. In empire or lowsec having standings to the owner of any production station increases the efficiency in which you produce from a POS in empire/low sec systems.

#4 Lvl 4 and 5 Missions should be moved to lowsec. The reason being is once you kill the bots there will be hordes of mission bots created. With the nerf of local chat in lowsec bots simply wont be able to function.

( A side note once you remove local us PVP'rs will feast on anyone that tries to use a bot as they will be such easy prey. Jump into local warp cloaked once your target is scanned down. Approach to smart bomb range decloak and smartbomb before the bot can log causing aggression.)

#5 CCP Chribba - Change the Eula make it illegal to trade sell supercaps without using CCPchribba. Hire a small staff with GM powers to hop to any system at any time. A fee is paid of 300 million isk or 14.99 and CCPchribba handles the transfer. Im aware all items have a unique ID and so do players. When a supercap is entered by a pod it is recorded. Should another pod try to enter a supercapital without CCPchribba facilitating the transfer it throws a flag to GM's . Punishment is then leavied for violation the EULA/TOS. Whola no more supercaps for cash. 300 million isk is the fee Chribba currently charges for transfers. I would think that you would need 3 full time employees and 2 part time employees to handle this operation. Each trade no matter how it is paid puts money in CCP's pocket. The only person adversely effected is Chribba.

* Addendum - Players can have other characters that they themselves control added to the allowed list of character ID's able to inhabit a Supercapital they own. ( this is a pre-work around to the cries that will come from people who use holding characters for when there super isn't in use)


This would be how I would curbstomp RMT and botting. I think these changes would seriously limit both operations and add more diversity to Eve.

♥ Manny

---

Originally by: Datcorinna Erunde

---

Edited by: Datcorinna Erunde on 13/12/2010 20:59:30
We really should help CCP in this matter, the seem so help- and clueless. Probably this is the very reason for this semi- devblog: they want advice from us how to find bots. So I want to try my best to explain it step by step for the interested guys on CCP.

Step Zero Point Five
Ask your customers how to handle the problem by throwing them a semi-quality devblog at their heads (already done).

Step One
Click on this link to dotlan and there you click on any of the "Region maps". Preferably on one that you guess it might be a 0.0 one (but others will do the trick too), let's say click on something like e.g."Malpais".

Step Two
You see a map of the chosen region now. On the upper right corner of the map you will notice two dropdown menus, click on the left one and select "NPC kills (24h)".

This will change the map info layer to showing you the amount of killed NPC's during the last 24 hours. For your convenience the great Wollari even colored the shown systems accordingly to the amount of the occured kills. He colored it from white (like "almost nothing") via green, yellow, orange up to a fine, perfect visible shiny red (like "unusually high occurance of NPC kills in this very system OMG OMG!!!!!!11111" or, more fitting "look here CCP, here are the bots!").

Step Three
Click on the red system wich you found to have the highest or second highest number of NPC kills inside the region, e.g. click on (by the time of me writing this) the system "RIU-GC" with an astonishing amount of 10282 kills in 24 hours (while every other system with an amount of 5000 and above kills would do fine too for our purposes).

Step Four
Grab your GM- tools and find out what are the names of the pilots, who killed these 10k rats in 24 hours. Wait until one of them is logged in for say one hour, then start to monitor him for some time without entering his system and do your usual stuff you always do with suspects to find them out and continue with Step Five.

(If you don't know what to do with suspects to find them out botting or not, restart with Step Zero Point One and ask your always willing-to-help customers how to handle this by writing a new devblog about your small step accomplishments and the big problems in recognising usual bot behaviour.)

Step Five
Ban the crap out of them bot acounts and repeat from Step One.



And for the lazy:

Go here, scroll down to "Most active systems 0.0" and use the right table for your investigations. Btw anyone noticed, that there are always the very same regions appearing in this chart?

---

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside

---

STUFF

---

Originally by: Gneissgrinder

---

Edited by: Gneissgrinder on 13/12/2010 17:40:08
Edited by: Gneissgrinder on 13/12/2010 17:39:37
hmmmm

is this an informal reply to the following 3 part article on www.evenews24.com ??? hmmmmmm
Link to an article that links malicious stuff removed. Spitfire

---

Originally by: Grady Eltoren

---

stuff

---

Originally by: Othran

---

Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 08:54:42
Indeed. Heres what 15 minutes effort shows.....

Time to name and shame - these are the 15 most blatant botting systems in the game and if CCP can't deal with it then its time to pack up and find another game :

8OYE-Z : Cache (SOLAR WING)
Y-OMTZ : Delve (IT Alliance)
G2-INZ : Esoteria (Stainless)
HHQ-M1 : Esoteria (Stainless)
ROJ-B0 : Insmother (RED Citizens)
VBPT-T : Insmother (RED Citizens)
Y-770C : Oasa (Legion of xXDEATHXx)
RO-AIQ : Oasa (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
G-B3PR : Omist (White Angels)
UC-8XF : Outer Passage (Shadow of xXDEATHXx)
F-HQWV : Perrigen Falls (SOLAR FLEET)
W-IIYI : Querious (IT Alliance)
WIW-X8 : The Spire (SOLAR FLEET)
HM-UVD : Stain (AAA/AAA Citizens)
4F89-U : Wicked Creek (The Jagged Alliance)

Oh and as an observation - looks like some alliances got told to stop botting for a while about 24 hours ago. Its very very clear when you look at the dotlan maps - pretty much all ratting activity ceased in certain eastern regions at exactly the same time.

---

Originally by: Soma Khan

---

nc alt detected. indeed

---

Originally by: Cyaxares II

---

And Akita's proposal of "just give us an official API to write our own bots" would level the playing field for this sort of metagaming (at the moment the risk vs reward equation is pretty unpredictable).

If something can be automated that's usually a great thing and the competition for the most efficient automation can be exciting and extremely challenging. Telling people "no - you are not allowed to do this because I don't want to compete with you in that challenge" just seems stupid - in the end both parties could profit from less boring, manual work and more interesting metagaming.

Do you seriously want to tell me that it's more fun to 0.01 ISK manually than think about the most efficient & robust trading algorithms and have your bots execute these?
That it's more interesting to spend hours mining than writing mining bots that are "intelligent" enough to avoid even advanced detection measures? (or if botting were legalized - can deal with random NPC behavior, incursions, ...)

---

Originally by: Cyaxares II

---

why enforce dumbing the game down (by having people do all the stupid tasks manually) when you could raise it to a whole new level of intellectual challenges instead?

---

Originally by: Othran

---

Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 15:24:59
I can pick out systems up North that are just as suspicious - its just that these 15 are ones where there's little to no argument to be had about occupancy levels being the reason. That's the reason for these.

---

Originally by: Soma Khan

---

Originally by: Othran

---

Edited by: Othran on 14/12/2010 15:24:59
I can pick out systems up North that are just as suspicious - its just that these 15 are ones where there's little to no argument to be had about occupancy levels being the reason. That's the reason for these.

---

'scuse me if that reasoning sounds a little too self-serving to me

---

Originally by: Jaqel Broadside

---

Perhaps you would want to see an Olympic games full of machines instead ? Don't you think you are missing the whole point ?

---

Originally by: P3k1

---

Edited by: P3k1 on 14/12/2010 16:18:36
I really don't know how bots work. But if they are injecting packets in the ongoing connection between client and a server why just not encrypt the connection?
At the end, I'm sure that CCP will do something about BOTs.

---

Originally by: Othran

---

Encrypting every connection would cost a lot of cpu cycles at CCPs end. You'd still need to secure the client as well. Not trivial and not free to anyone in terms of cost.

---

Originally by: Evelgrivion

---

Except its most vocal proponents are the ones that stand the most gain from it. No matter how the client interacts with local itself, there is no getting around the fact that a client has to be updated for a new person in the solar system.

Bots read directly from the client's memory. Adding such a delay only makes it more difficult for legitimate users to fight back against the RMT menace.

---

Originally by: P3k1

---

Edited by: P3k1 on 14/12/2010 16:48:53

Originally by: Othran

---

Encrypting every connection would cost a lot of cpu cycles at CCPs end. You'd still need to secure the client as well. Not trivial and not free to anyone in terms of cost.

---

You don't have to encrypt everything, you can probably do checksums to see if there was any packet injection. Neither you or I can tell how much CPU cycle would take to process 60000+ connections/players.
Probable solution:
Place a dedicated machine just to cypher/decipher connections between server and a client.
There is always a solution :)

Either way someone should get one of those bots and see how they work, so you can criple them.

Arrggghhhh matey!

EDIT:

Found link to tokens that I was talking about.
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_token

---

Originally by: Crazy KSK

---

no one here seems to take the fact seriously that ccp actually earns money form people using bots and would loose money if they would do something against them
because of that I do not think ccp does or will do anything against botting ever
well maybe if 20% of the eve subscribers would quit over the curse of this month and then the impact on income would be significant enough then there would be maybe a change happening
what I am essentially saying is that ccp is nothing more than a bunch of greedy people not more worth than the botters they support not caring about their players more than they need to to keep getting income
ccp has so far not once proven that that is not the case and until they do not prove that eve is not solely there for money making
now is the chance for ccp to prove that they are not just a bunch of greedy people
remove all possibility to fully automate process in eve to make isk
oh it is sure possible if ccp just would want to ^^

---