Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Luminos

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Will somebody please explain to me what's so hard about not playing to skill up?

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Nothing. When he says "the hard way" he simply means waiting until the skills have simmered to perfection, rather than having them nukezapped into tastelessness in 3 minutes by paying much more for the TV dinner version.

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Originally by: Luminos

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I'm not really in favor of paying for skills, but I do wish people would use sensible arguments to support their position.

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Originally by: Myxx

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OP: STFU. It wont happen, take a look at the microtransactions threadnaught.

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Originally by: mooimafish

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it already happens, right here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=channel&channelID=734105

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Originally by: Luminos

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Originally by: Erin Eraser

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Everyone who doesn't want this probably plays in plex anyway

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Originally by: Luminos

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Originally by: Skex Relbore

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The great thing about EVE as Tippia so rightly pointed out is that unlike other games you don't have to play to progress your character.

... (30 seconds later) ...

As far as the OP goes. The proposed idea is dumb because of all the reasons various people have given plus the fact that it removes a major part of building a character. The character bazaar is a different beast for a number of reasons 1 someone had to actually spend the time training them the hard way

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The goggles, they do nothing. The contradiction still burns my eyes like the claws of a thousand rabid weasels.

Will somebody please explain to me what's so hard about not playing to skill up?

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Originally by: Khorian

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Threads like these didn't happen a few years back, at least not as frequently. These are the kind of guys that get attracted to the game by making it easier accessible.

As time passes, more and more of these guys will appear in this game, and eventually someone will listen to their stupid ideas and eventually in a few years the game will be an empty shell of what it once was.

We can only hope that CCP will stay somewhat true to its principles that made EVE possible in the first place!

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Originally by: Wiki Leaks

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Originally by: Serge Bastana

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The OP really really does not get EVE, they make claims they do but it's blatantly obvious they have missed one the biggest aspects of the game, which has been mentioned several times in previous comments made here.

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But what if the OP really does get Eve though? What if they do get it, and they just don't fear changing it? Perhaps because they don't perceive in protectionist terms?

What if it is you that doesn't "get Eve"?
What if somebody asked you to define what "getting Eve" is? What would you do then?

You'd start a thread that would descend into 30 people giving 40 opinions, none of which would have any more validity than any other except for the number of +1's and QFT's a particularly followed bittervet attracts. It still wouldn't define what "getting Eve" is because "getting Eve" is entirely the choice of the individual. I get Eve. I just don't get Eve the same way you're ever going to get Eve.

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Besides the time factor being a way to keep people interested in the game, it serves another purpuse. It gives players time to learn about flying and fitting ships, tactics, the most efficient methods to achieve goals, etc.

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Let's pretend this is true. Would it not be better therefore to allow people to fly better ships once they had correctly fitted and flown a lesser ship? Thus meaning you don't have to wait based on somebody else's poor learning speed?

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Does anyone remember the story about that idiot who got his dreadnought blown up when he tried to use it solo with possibly the worst fitting anyone had probably seen. If you scan through some of the old articles from a few years back in Eve Tribune you will find the story there.

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Are we now advocating treating everybody as equally stupid based on the misadventures of one particularly gifted individual?

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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This story illustrates perfectly what happens when people buy high SP chars from the bazaar then try to fly ships they have no clue how to fit or use effectively.

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Ok, and what exactly does it illustrate? The End Of Eve? Nope. Some lolz? Yes. And what else?
That's right. Nothing else.

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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The same would happen if you had people able to simply purchase millions of SP in one go, it might give those of us who appreciate the time/experience aspect a good laugh but it would also produce so many whine threads that with the rest of us getting fed up the game and quitting, that's all the forums would be in the end.

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That's right, the same would happen. Nothing, except more lolz.

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Those who want instant SP the way the OP suggests are the 'instant gratification' crowd. EVE does not cater to you the way you want, get used to it :)

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Not to put too finer point on it, Eve evolves. Get used to it.
Maybe you just don't "get Eve"?

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Originally by: Erin Eraser

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Everyone who doesn't want this probably plays in plex anyway so their point to moot. Sorry you poor leeches. The grownups have a bit more money than the 46 cents you managed to sc**** together from lunch money change.

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Originally by: bluenzo

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Because if you buy a character on the bazar you are buying skills that have taken the time to been trained. If you could buy skillpoints you are magically creating skillpoints out of thin air with no one ever taking the time to train them.

Answer: never

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Despite the claim, several very cogent points have been made about why purchasable skillpoints is a bad idea.

Another factor that I find interesting is that the calls for this type of feature generally come from newer players. This is understandable as they are the ones most likely to look at a player with 50 million SP vs their own 5 or 10 million and say "I will never be able to catch up to that guy, that's not fair!"

The problem with this line of thinking is that it ignores some very important and fundamental facts- most importantly that skills are capped. You cannot get past level 5 in any skill no matter how long you play. Once you have Gallente Cruiser 5 (and the requisite support skills) your "on-paper" ability to fly a Vexor (for example) never gets any better whether you have 20 million SP or 80 million.

Once you pass the basics of support skills, the only difference between veterans and newbies on paper is the number of ships and systems they can use. The number of SP in play when you go up against someone in-game, defined as the ones put into the skills you're actively using, is much lower than the number of SP you actually have.

The basic difference between veterans and new players is that veterans can choose from more roles or activities within the game. The new player must make choices about their skills to determine what they would like to do next, and this is basic MMO design.

Making it possible for someone to just do anything with no effort or delay eliminates one of the biggest reasons for an MMO to exist- the ongoing satisfaction of watching your progress in small increments as you move toward a defined goal. And as I said before, the skillpoint pool is much like the ISK pool in game. The balance of characters and their skills is as much a requirement for the game to work as is the regular economy of the game.

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Originally by: Gecko O'Bac

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Despite the claim, several very cogent points have been made about why purchasable skillpoints is a bad idea.

Another factor that I find interesting is that the calls for this type of feature generally come from newer players. This is understandable as they are the ones most likely to look at a player with 50 million SP vs their own 5 or 10 million and say "I will never be able to catch up to that guy, that's not fair!"

The problem with this line of thinking is that it ignores some very important and fundamental facts- most importantly that skills are capped. You cannot get past level 5 in any skill no matter how long you play. Once you have Gallente Cruiser 5 (and the requisite support skills) your "on-paper" ability to fly a Vexor (for example) never gets any better whether you have 20 million SP or 80 million.

Once you pass the basics of support skills, the only difference between veterans and newbies on paper is the number of ships and systems they can use. The number of SP in play when you go up against someone in-game, defined as the ones put into the skills you're actively using, is much lower than the number of SP you actually have.

The basic difference between veterans and new players is that veterans can choose from more roles or activities within the game. The new player must make choices about their skills to determine what they would like to do next, and this is basic MMO design.

Making it possible for someone to just do anything with no effort or delay eliminates one of the biggest reasons for an MMO to exist- the ongoing satisfaction of watching your progress in small increments as you move toward a defined goal. And as I said before, the skillpoint pool is much like the ISK pool in game. The balance of characters and their skills is as much a requirement for the game to work as is the regular economy of the game.

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Good luck with this... Those are all good points you make but imho it's not worth the effort... I'm not even sure if there's somebody seriously arguing PRO buying skills or just a couple of trolls. Either case, since they're blatantly ignoring what multiple people are saying, I'd say it's a waste of time trying to convince them.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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The basic difference between veterans and new players is

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Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Originally by: Wiki Leaks

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Originally by: Serge Bastana

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The OP really really does not get EVE, they make claims they do but it's blatantly obvious they have missed one the biggest aspects of the game, which has been mentioned several times in previous comments made here.

---

But what if the OP really does get Eve though? What if they do get it, and they just don't fear changing it? Perhaps because they don't perceive in protectionist terms?

What if it is you that doesn't "get Eve"?
What if somebody asked you to define what "getting Eve" is? What would you do then?

You'd start a thread that would descend into 30 people giving 40 opinions, none of which would have any more validity than any other except for the number of +1's and QFT's a particularly followed bittervet attracts. It still wouldn't define what "getting Eve" is because "getting Eve" is entirely the choice of the individual. I get Eve. I just don't get Eve the same way you're ever going to get Eve.

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Besides the time factor being a way to keep people interested in the game, it serves another purpuse. It gives players time to learn about flying and fitting ships, tactics, the most efficient methods to achieve goals, etc.

---

Let's pretend this is true. Would it not be better therefore to allow people to fly better ships once they had correctly fitted and flown a lesser ship? Thus meaning you don't have to wait based on somebody else's poor learning speed?

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Does anyone remember the story about that idiot who got his dreadnought blown up when he tried to use it solo with possibly the worst fitting anyone had probably seen. If you scan through some of the old articles from a few years back in Eve Tribune you will find the story there.

---

Are we now advocating treating everybody as equally stupid based on the misadventures of one particularly gifted individual?

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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This story illustrates perfectly what happens when people buy high SP chars from the bazaar then try to fly ships they have no clue how to fit or use effectively.

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Ok, and what exactly does it illustrate? The End Of Eve? Nope. Some lolz? Yes. And what else?
That's right. Nothing else.

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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The same would happen if you had people able to simply purchase millions of SP in one go, it might give those of us who appreciate the time/experience aspect a good laugh but it would also produce so many whine threads that with the rest of us getting fed up the game and quitting, that's all the forums would be in the end.

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That's right, the same would happen. Nothing, except more lolz.

Originally by: Serge Bastana

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Those who want instant SP the way the OP suggests are the 'instant gratification' crowd. EVE does not cater to you the way you want, get used to it :)

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Not to put too finer point on it, Eve evolves. Get used to it.
Maybe you just don't "get Eve"?

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No, you get used to that fact that this is what has attracted a lot of the playerbase, how CCP has designed the game and just stop pretending that you know better, because you completely miss the point every time you post. The game is designed a certain way, you won't get what you want here, so you get used to it :)

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Originally by: Destination SkillQueue

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Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 06/01/2011 11:02:57

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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I really love and adore this idea. I haven't had much time taking care of eve because of other real life commitments. It is quite hectic in real life working from 0730 to 2230 sometimes.

Make it happen.

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Oh Jenny, Blane Xero is going to be so happy to hear you have returned to grace us with your presense on the forums again. He always gets so excited when someone happens to even mention your name.

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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Despite the claim, several very cogent points have been made about why purchasable skillpoints is a bad idea.

Another factor that I find interesting is that the calls for this type of feature generally come from newer players. This is understandable as they are the ones most likely to look at a player with 50 million SP vs their own 5 or 10 million and say "I will never be able to catch up to that guy, that's not fair!"

The problem with this line of thinking is that it ignores some very important and fundamental facts- most importantly that skills are capped. You cannot get past level 5 in any skill no matter how long you play. Once you have Gallente Cruiser 5 (and the requisite support skills) your "on-paper" ability to fly a Vexor (for example) never gets any better whether you have 20 million SP or 80 million.

Once you pass the basics of support skills, the only difference between veterans and newbies on paper is the number of ships and systems they can use. The number of SP in play when you go up against someone in-game, defined as the ones put into the skills you're actively using, is much lower than the number of SP you actually have.

The basic difference between veterans and new players is that veterans can choose from more roles or activities within the game. The new player must make choices about their skills to determine what they would like to do next, and this is basic MMO design.

Making it possible for someone to just do anything with no effort or delay eliminates one of the biggest reasons for an MMO to exist- the ongoing satisfaction of watching your progress in small increments as you move toward a defined goal. And as I said before, the skillpoint pool is much like the ISK pool in game. The balance of characters and their skills is as much a requirement for the game to work as is the regular economy of the game.

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Originally by: De'Veldrin

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Originally by: Jimer Lins

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The basic difference between veterans and new players is

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Experience using their ships and the equipment on them, which is something that no amount of bought and paid for skill points can give you.

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Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington

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I'd quit if this happened. Simple as.

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Originally by: Pocket Ace5

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And why shouldnt we allow people to directly build their own characters with PLEX? Because it would ruin the monotony of waiting months to do it?

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