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Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
140
   |
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:40:00 -
[151] - Quote
Matriarch Prime wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Matriarch Prime wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Why people can't accept EVE's core concept as it is (and leave if they don't like, STO is available) is beyond me. To be fair, STO is pretty terrible. :) Which is even MORE reason for the "change the game" crowd to migrate there, imagine how much better they could make STO by stopping suicide ganking klingon warbirds and AFK-cloaked Science ships! You could say that. The reality is that it is hot mess of ability bloat which tries to hide fundamentally simplistic gameplay. Good thing it is free now. That's the only price point that could make it viable.
STO's primary problem is that their was a design problem and marketing problem in terms of understanding who their potential audience was. WoW players had only a passing interest in the game, after all, they already have a highly developed PvE game which any new game can't compete with, its why its had its long term success (it will take years for STO to reach this level of play). Star Wars fans who play MMO's had no interest, after all they are a coming from a full featured sandbox MMO which was altered to be like WOW for which they hated the developer for. Going to another WoW clone was no in the cards. That left the "try it for a while" crowd that makes up the rest of the MMO community that might have been interested which understandably resulted in big intial numbers and than a mass exodus. With GW2 being released, after spending 10 minutes playing I can already tell you, its far superior to STO on day one. STO is basically ******, destined to be remember as a failure of epic proportions given the time and cost involved to make it.
That said, STO's release had zero impact on Eve and I suspect GW2 will have minimal impact as well, which re-affirms that what makes a Eve player and Eve as a game, is not cut from the same stock.
The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub.-á |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
952
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:41:00 -
[152] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Sabrina Solette wrote:2) NPC corps, reduce the willingness to join player corps due to the fact you can't get back to the starter corp once you've joined a player corp (if that player corp proves to be not a great place to be). Not sure what you mean here. Are you under the impression that once you join a player corp, you can't return to an NPC corp?
You cannot return to your Starter NPC corp as you go to a different one. If you left friends there who are unwilling to move, you cannot return to them.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Elysium Foxx
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:44:00 -
[153] - Quote
Suicide ganking is still (and should still) be possible in hisec, however, it was always a semi-broken mechanic that certain members of the eve community took too far and forced CPPs hand into fixing. The way they did it was to balance/buff barges, which also needed attention anyway.
If ppl like James and the gsf gank bounties hadn't happened, it prob wouldn't have been changed.
But at the end of the day, there should be real consequences for "suiciding" yourself, NOT profit, that's just dumb. I never heard of a guy strapping a bomb to himself, setting it off and, well, being rewarded with living and also getting given a new 60" LCD tv for his troubles. You are still able to sui-gank, that hasn't changed, but you need to find your profitable hauler ganks etc now, not soft easymode hulk ganks. Or use it as a last resort, or a FU revenge attack on someone who made you buttsore and sadfaced.
Basically the only ppl that are whining are the pathetic players who either made profit from bad game design, or ppl who actually thought it was cool PvP coolness.
Empire is still as unsafe as it was, I'm not sure why the fuss. Sui-ganking is better now imo.
|
Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative
74
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:48:00 -
[154] - Quote
Sabrina Solette wrote:Din Chao wrote:Sabrina Solette wrote:2) NPC corps, reduce the willingness to join player corps due to the fact you can't get back to the starter corp once you've joined a player corp (if that player corp proves to be not a great place to be). Not sure what you mean here. Are you under the impression that once you join a player corp, you can't return to an NPC corp? You can't return to the NPC starter corp that you started in, you end up in one of what I call the drop-out NPC corps where other ex-player corp pilots go.
Ah, ok. But that's kind of the point, at least lore-wise, of those starter NPC corps. They're schools, aren't they? Eventually you leave school, one way or another... |
Deros
Black Omega Security
Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:52:00 -
[155] - Quote
I have played EVE since beta, and yet just noticed I have only ever posted once on these forums, it amused me.
I must say that it is a very interesting article that I have to agree with. It is a shame that CCP is implementing such changes to the game, in the way that they have.
And yet I fear that yet is worse to come, listening to the presentation from fanfest detailing mere ideas for the "crimewatch" system to be altered to make me worry for what the game will become in HiSec and LowSec. I think I will spend even less time there than I do already.
As for wars, remove neutral reps, easy. Bring in Concord for them interfering in a sanctioned action. Remove free allies, its a sanctioned war, let them join in if they want, but it should cost them.
Anywho, back to 0.0 for me. |
Ghazu
65
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:56:00 -
[156] - Quote
Matriarch Prime wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Why people can't accept EVE's core concept as it is (and leave if they don't like, STO is available) is beyond me. To be fair, STO is pretty terrible. :)
but they have wis avatar immersion social blah blah now immediately? |
Too-Boku
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:07:00 -
[157] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Saw the name - james 315.
Stopped right there.
It is probably best for james if folk do not encourage his really strange obsession with miners.
His article will be about miners and how they are destroying Eve. He should change his name to James One-Note.
The self obsessed ego (mittens) and the miner obsessed ego.
There's a lot more to it than miners. Set aside your prejudice, hate and preconceived notions and read the article. |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:08:00 -
[158] - Quote
High-sec ganking tends to keep people in high-sec. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1272
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:12:00 -
[159] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Trash article on themittani.com nonshocker.
I realize you are obligated to cast aspersions on account of your corp and alliance ticker, but can you deny that high sec is a lot safer than it used to be? And is moving towards a safe-sec pvp free zone?
http://www.themittani.com Bringing balance to the world of Eve news |
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:12:00 -
[160] - Quote
I was a big SWG player before the cu and nge. I think I still have the collector's edition somewhere. I'm a big believer of sandbox, but I'm not such a purist to think that there isn't a place for structured content in such games. There can be no "WoW killer" in my mind. I like the game, I have an active subscription that I've had for years. I came across both eve and wow at around the same time I think. I had left EQ after 5 years or so, both games had appeal to me for different reasons.
The developers of this game have done a good job of focusing on keeping players able to make their own content. It works fanasticly well. So, I don't get really upset if some players are more resistant to things like bringing more security to high sec. I understand that the game itself is a delicate balance. Much of eve's success depends on its player perception of mechanics. Nevermind how good or bad those mechanics support or hinder thier enjoyment objectively.
I find the push back having a environment that is supportive of new players, and security while they learn the ropes interesting. Players pushing back on changes that would give them more content, via more players or more money for development from said player sub, for the simple price that they aren't aloowed to be unrepentant douches to new players. It is quite perplexing that the developers would have to go so far as to make whole systems off limits to ganker because of the efforts of some players to ruin the very first moments of a new player entering the game. Yet, looking at the reponse, most players are fine with leaving those systems off limits. It passes under the radar for the most part.
But the simple suggestion the developer make such protection explicit in the workings of high security and an invisible line has been cross somewhere. And my participation in these dicussion so far have left my unable to account for it. I get that some players are mad that older player (like me) can sit in high security, enjoy its safety while making a decent "living", that somehow even though there is much more to gain in low/null sec, that that isn't enough. I must be forced into pvp...kicking and screaming if necessary. I've proposed solutions to this delima, but I'm not so naive to think I was the first.
I don't see the other side of the arguement though. I don't see the arguement that high security must be removed and all space is dangerous all the time. I'm sure some players think that. But where is that line? At what point does safe become too safe? I only ever see the real motions to make high sec actually secure? Are we to then conclude that high sec could be more secure, if only players realize that they too enjoy the benefits from time to time? Surely the players that never enter high security must be a vast minority? Or am I to conclude that the most outspoke opposition have no idea what they want. That they will never admit that they too like to visit jita from time to time without the looming threat of violence over their shoulders.
I'm not sure where I was going with that, if at all, but it those thoughts that come to me when I discuss this with other players. |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:35:00 -
[161] - Quote
Too-Boku wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Saw the name - james 315.
Stopped right there.
It is probably best for james if folk do not encourage his really strange obsession with miners.
His article will be about miners and how they are destroying Eve. He should change his name to James One-Note.
The self obsessed ego (mittens) and the miner obsessed ego. There's a lot more to it than miners. Set aside your prejudice, hate and preconceived notions and read the article.
I just did, and it really wasn't worth the time. Despite the thesis-style language, there's way too many opinions that are then taken as the factual basis for further theorising. There's really no reason to take it more seriously than any random post in GD (okay, except for maybe the avatar ones).
For the record, I don't mine and I'm not against suicide ganking per se. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:35:00 -
[162] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Sabrina Solette wrote:2) NPC corps, reduce the willingness to join player corps due to the fact you can't get back to the starter corp once you've joined a player corp (if that player corp proves to be not a great place to be). Not sure what you mean here. Are you under the impression that once you join a player corp, you can't return to an NPC corp?
Sabrina Solette wrote:You can't return to the NPC starter corp that you started in, you end up in one of what I call the drop-out NPC corps where other ex-player corp pilots go.
Vincent Athena wrote:You cannot return to your Starter NPC corp as you go to a different one. If you left friends there who are unwilling to move, you cannot return to them.
Eh? Wtf are you two blathering about?
What difference does your NPC corp make?
What do you mean by "unwilling to move" and "return to them"? Surely players in NPC corps can go where the hell they like?
Or am I missing something here? |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries
Epsilon Fleet
60
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:41:00 -
[163] - Quote
1)TL;DR
2)Vets whining about eve getting softer.
3)Why do bitter vets care about what happens in high sec?
4)Oh this thread again. |
Arec Bardwin
Perkone
Caldari State
712
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:45:00 -
[164] - Quote
Personally I think the article is a nice mix of valid arguments and tinfoil hattery. Let's hope CCP don't make EVE a fluffy theme park. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Elysian Empire
321
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:45:00 -
[165] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:1)TL;DR
2)Vets whining about eve getting softer.
3)Why do bitter vets care about what happens in high sec?
4)Oh this thread again.
Because we care as the game as a whole, and don't like the overall shift in direction (and audience) ccp is taking?
Go be stupid somewhere else. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
2532
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:45:00 -
[166] - Quote
Opened the page, saw who the author was, realized I already read it, closed the page. 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:46:00 -
[167] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Din Chao wrote:Sabrina Solette wrote:2) NPC corps, reduce the willingness to join player corps due to the fact you can't get back to the starter corp once you've joined a player corp (if that player corp proves to be not a great place to be). Not sure what you mean here. Are you under the impression that once you join a player corp, you can't return to an NPC corp? Sabrina Solette wrote:You can't return to the NPC starter corp that you started in, you end up in one of what I call the drop-out NPC corps where other ex-player corp pilots go. Vincent Athena wrote:You cannot return to your Starter NPC corp as you go to a different one. If you left friends there who are unwilling to move, you cannot return to them. Eh? Wtf are you two blathering about? What difference does your NPC corp make? What do you mean by "unwilling to move" and "return to them"? Surely players in NPC corps can go where the hell they like? Or am I missing something here?
Some eve players hold a special hatred in thier hearts for players to willingly stay in npc corps to avoid war declarion mechanics.
All players start the game in an npc player corp. If you decide to quit (leave) that corp, you can not rejoin that starter corp. But you can join another NPC corp. For instance, I am in sebiestor tribe, it is an NPC corp. Players do not run it, there are no leaders, just a chat room for all the members.
Note: You are in a starter corp. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries
Epsilon Fleet
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:50:00 -
[168] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Kult Altol wrote:1)TL;DR
2)Vets whining about eve getting softer.
3)Why do bitter vets care about what happens in high sec?
4)Oh this thread again. Because we care as the game as a whole, and don't like the overall shift in direction (and audience) ccp is taking? Go be stupid somewhere else.
Thank you for your extremely enlightened opinion. Some day I wish do be as intelligent as you. You are the reason newer players leave eve. Eve is linear in such a way as to encourage progression. Normally you start in high sec, move to low sec, go to WH or null sec. Instead of belittling the buffing of high sec, maybe you "Vets" should make the other areas of eve more inviting. 
|
Marlona Sky
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
1240
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 15:54:00 -
[169] - Quote
Andski wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Trash article on themittani.com nonshocker. >wants 0.0 turned into **** >wants hisec to be safer
Null is the safest space in the game. I'm not sure what those asterisks are for, but it is the naughty word for poo poo; I will have you know coalitions who's goal is to turn all of null into one giant nap train is what is making null poo poo.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
MadMuppet
Universal Freelance
CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
546
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:00:00 -
[170] - Quote
While I will say I admire what the Goons and other groups have done in terms of 'pulling things off' in EVE, I have a real hard time taking this article seriously. Sure, I agree that there is a change happening to make high-sec safer, but why is it happening? Because a very organized groups of players took a game mechanic and pushed it as far and as hard as possible to the point that it was potentially becoming ruinous to the game itself.
Yes, there was a good business model there, with profit to be had by many. They were potentially 'winning' the game with what they were doing. But it went on for so long that something needed to be done and it was. Reading this article leaves me with only two thoughts:
1. It sounds like a whine thread for suicide gankers. The underlying issue that ganks fuel profits for ship builders appears to be glossed over.
2. The actions that the author and his friends claimed to have engaged in helped feed the very 'problem' that he is whining about.
There is an almost endless string of complaints, but no offered solution. With the understanding that CCP is a company that needs to make money, a point that has been beaten to death in the article, there doesn't appear to be a solution offered by the author to make things better. With so much anger towards the current course, what does the author WANT?
If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries
Epsilon Fleet
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:00:00 -
[171] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Andski wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Trash article on themittani.com nonshocker. >wants 0.0 turned into **** >wants hisec to be safer Null is the safest space in the game. I'm not sure what those asterisks are for, but it is the naughty word for poo poo; I will have you know coalitions who's goal is to turn all of null into one giant nap train is what is making null poo poo.
Getting into null is difficult for a new player. Gate camps. The only alternative is using a WH.
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Mallak Azaria
588
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:03:00 -
[172] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Andski wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Trash article on themittani.com nonshocker. >wants 0.0 turned into **** >wants hisec to be safer Null is the safest space in the game. I'm not sure what those asterisks are for, but it is the naughty word for poo poo; I will have you know coalitions who's goal is to turn all of null into one giant nap train is what is making null poo poo. Getting into null is difficult for a new player. Gate camps. The only alternative is using a WH.
Newbees go out to nullsec on their first day & there is ways for even a new player to get through a gate camp.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Jaison Savrin
Dragon's Rage
Ethereal Dawn
32
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:05:00 -
[173] - Quote
Saw author and stopped reading.
James 315 is just some jackass that has managed to make a name for himself by being a jackass. Eventually people will get bored of him and he will go away. I can only hope it is soon rather than later. |
Mallak Azaria
588
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:05:00 -
[174] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:
Why do bitter vets care about what happens in high sec?
Well first off despite being bitter, we still care about the game. Secondly, plenty of us live in highsec.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
333
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:06:00 -
[175] - Quote
Confirming that Mittens admits openly that BoB fell because someone clicked a mouse button, and not because they were beaten in space.
Finally...
GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥
Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
Dessau
52
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:10:00 -
[176] - Quote
Ah, GD, ever the bastion of critical thought.
"More than three sentences in sequence, cannot compute."
"Author is _____, no need to read, already know _____'s arguments are invalid."
"Posted on _____ website, no need to read, _____'s content is garbage." *
While I disagree with Mr. 315's conclusions in Part 2, it does raise questions about CCP's long-term strategy. As it is in New Eden, our real-world corporations must adapt as circumstances arise. I don't think they should risk shedding thousands of subs to the likes of WoT just to poop up the sandbox that makes the game legendary... but as it now stands, mining is safer; ganking is still possible.
( * statement is actually true of all Gawker websites)
Look not to FW and metagaming circlejerk isk-faucetry. Look not to thy brothers-in-arms who will not undock without 10-man advantage and off-grid links. Look not to the feudal wastes north and south, to mad throngs of pubescent wangdanglers. Nay, but whither wilt thou find thy virtue and glory, thy solo and small-gang PvP? Whither wane goodfights for goodfights' sake? |
Mallak Azaria
588
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:11:00 -
[177] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Confirming that Mittens admits openly that BoB fell because someone clicked a mouse button, and not because they were beaten in space.
Finally...
Everyone already knew this because you know... Mittens actually told everyone. However, let not mention that BoB had already become a maggot-ridden corpse of it's former self with it's members writhing in the filth.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Review and Evaluation
Greater Realms
53
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:11:00 -
[178] - Quote
How on earth did you manage to write that much about so little?
If making HI-sec safer means that there are far more subscription than any EvE player that doesn't want that is stupid.
This is the trouble with conspiracy theories........ they're rarely anything other than one sided.
Just look at all the complaints from Hi-sec players about drops in their earning potentials. Sure, they can still earn a lot, but that is generally reserved for the highly knowledgeable and for players that know how to 'manipulate' the game to earn well.
For me....... if Hi-sec gets safer and the potential earnings drop, then this is the ideal situation. Get more subscriptions, get them to understand that after 3 months they really have to move out of hi-sec to make any ISK and suddenly...... all those Low/Null regions that I pass through a lot that are empty will get fuller.
I appreciate that for you it's probably a case of 'principals' and for others it's a case of ISK, but EvE needs to grow......... and if it isn't growing it's dying................ If you or any of the other conspirators out there can come up with a better way to grow the subscriptions then lets hear it!
It's easy to control hi-sec population............. you control the ISK sources...........
I don't wish this to appear as an attack on you, but JESUS.... there is always someone moaning about something in this game (yes I see the irony here).
Regards
Barrak |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries
Epsilon Fleet
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:12:00 -
[179] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Kult Altol wrote:
Why do bitter vets care about what happens in high sec?
Well first off despite being bitter, we still care about the game. Secondly, plenty of us live in highsec.
I just don't see the reason to whine about it. I been playing for almost a year and I consider my self a noob still. Unfortunately low sec and null sec are unappealing. I ask my self, "why do I really want to go out there?" and I can't find reasons I ask older players for reasons and they flame and troll. I plan to go out in low and null sec eventually. But most eve pilots are extremely vitriolic.
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Volar Kang
Quartz Research
Strategic Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 16:18:00 -
[180] - Quote
As long as Null sec is not changed and is always the wild west, who gives a rats behind what the rules are in highsec? If you want PvP, stop hanging around the kiddie pool looking for easy kills to pad your killboard in highsec and man up and go to null or low sec.
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