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FutureTroll5000	Posted - 2011.04.22 00:18:00 - [1] Would that not make Gallente ships OP? They have the most insane drone bays in the game, and let us say that suddenly blasters were on par with projectiles.. then all you have is Gallente slowness. Which would not mean a damn thing when you have projectile-like guns AND a trillion drones doing damage. I mean drones are generally considered negated at the blob level right? But all engagements non-blob, but they also would find have a ship-of-the-line spot in all blobs regardless.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.22 00:30:00 - [2] Originally by: FutureTroll5000 Would that not make Gallente ships OP? No. Then they wouldn't be fixed, now would they? Quote: They have the most insane drone bays in the game Not really. They have two ships with "insane drone bays" ù the Ishtar and the Dominix ù which are limited in other ways. Quote: let us say that suddenly blasters were on par with projectiles That's a rather arbitrary measurement of "fixed", isn't it? And what do you mean by "on par" in this case? Quote: Which would not mean a damn thing when you have projectile-like guns AND a trillion drones doing damage. No, just five drones. Just like any other ship in the game. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.22 00:33:00 - [3] If blasters got "fixed" people would still whine about them because they don't like balls to the wall pvp blasters demand.
FutureTroll5000	Posted - 2011.04.22 00:48:00 - [4] Originally by: baltec1 If blasters got "fixed" people would still whine about them because they don't like balls to the wall pvp blasters demand. ah therein lies the crux. blaster fighting requires something that a blob will not cater to. not in the current state of game performance. they are truly fuct.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.22 01:09:00 - [5] Originally by: FutureTroll5000 Originally by: baltec1 If blasters got "fixed" people would still whine about them because they don't like balls to the wall pvp blasters demand. ah therein lies the crux. blaster fighting requires something that a blob will not cater to. not in the current state of game performance. they are truly fuct. Its kinda like cruise missiles for sniping. Yea they can do it but the blob needs that alpha now not in 10 seconds time so the raven gets shunned. Blasters are solo/small gang weapons which require experience, balls and madness. Beer may or may not help.
Fredfredbug4 Gallente	Posted - 2011.04.22 01:23:00 - [6] Blasters are fine apart from tracking issues. The real problem is the ships that you put them on. They are too slow to close in. An average PVPer would be able to determine that the gallente slow boat is trying to melt their face with blasters and follow up by kiting them to death.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.22 08:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Fredfredbug4 Blasters are fine apart from tracking issues. The real problem is the ships that you put them on. They are too slow to close in. An average PVPer would be able to determine that the gallente slow boat is trying to melt their face with blasters and follow up by kiting them to death. Thats why I fit all of my roaming blasterboats with a sheild buffer. A nano hype can get very fast and the thorax can out run most AF
Sir Drake	Posted - 2011.04.22 08:18:00 - [8] Originally by: baltec1 Thats why I fit all of my roaming blasterboats with a sheild buffer. A nano hype can get very fast and the thorax can out run most AF I know those shield buffer setups work but imho thats a bloody sad way to go for Gallente. -------------------------------------------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. Terry Pratchett
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.22 08:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Sir Drake I know those shield buffer setups work but imho thats a bloody sad way to go for Gallente. It kinda makes sense. You don't get all that many mids for the buffer but you do get lots of lows for damage mods and tracking
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2011.04.22 10:03:00 - [10] Originally by: FutureTroll5000 Originally by: baltec1 If blasters got "fixed" people would still whine about them because they don't like balls to the wall pvp blasters demand. ah therein lies the crux. blaster fighting requires something that a blob will not cater to. not in the current state of game performance. they are truly fuct. Probably why they're taking so long to fix them - it's a real problem figuring out how. - Giving them more range would just make them kinetic/thermal autocannons. The game does not need a clone weapon. - Giving them more damage/tracking - still sub-par in fleets, but we'd suddenly see 2000dps Megathrons or something similarly ridiculous camping station undocks everywhere. _________________________________ ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS...
Trader20	Posted - 2011.04.22 23:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Trader20 on 22/04/2011 23:08:14 why dont they just add a "warp to blaster optimal range" option....oh wait they already have it
Trader20	Posted - 2011.04.22 23:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Fredfredbug4 Blasters are fine apart from tracking issues. The real problem is the ships that you put them on. They are too slow to close in. An average PVPer would be able to determine that the gallente slow boat is trying to melt their face with blasters and follow up by kiting them to death. So wats harder, kiting a ship trying to out track it hoping not to get webbed or td'd. Or mwd'in to a target, web it, and melt it? Why do ppl always whine about blaster tracking? Why would u kite using blasters? Just hit approach, mwd, web, and blast.
FutureTroll5000	Posted - 2011.04.22 23:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Trader20 So wats harder, kiting a ship trying to out track it hoping not to get webbed or td'd. Or mwd'in to a target, web it, and melt it? Why do ppl always whine about blaster tracking? Why would u kite using blasters? Just hit approach, mwd, web, and blast. That guy was talking about the blasterboat's opponent kiting him. But you did make a valid tactical point.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.23 02:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Fredfredbug4 Blasters are fine apart from tracking issues. The real problem is the ships that you put them on. They are too slow to close in. An average PVPer would be able to determine that the gallente slow boat is trying to melt their face with blasters and follow up by kiting them to death. So wats harder, kiting a ship trying to out track it hoping not to get webbed or td'd. Or mwd'in to a target, web it, and melt it? Why do ppl always whine about blaster tracking? Why would u kite using blasters? Just hit approach, mwd, web, and blast. Because you only have a <1km window in which you can apply full damage. MWD on top of something (say at like 10m) and you'll miss more than you hit even if he stays still. If he's moving you need to keep him at pretty much exactly your optimal, or you're not going to be getting much of that damage blasters are supposed to be good for. What's more is simply approaching a target means they track you just fine as well, and blasters actually don't have dps that's that great when compared to lasers. A pulse geddon only does ~8% less raw dps than a mega and has ~10% more ehp, IIRC the mega would theoretically still win because of resists in a 1v1, but it was a matter of less than 3 seconds. Given that blasters are really bad in fleet engagements, you'd think that they'd be notably better in a 1v1 situation. Unfortunately you'd be wrong.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.23 05:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Cambarus Because you only have a <1km window in which you can apply full damage. MWD on top of something (say at like 10m) and you'll miss more than you hit even if he stays still. If he's moving you need to keep him at pretty much exactly your optimal, or you're not going to be getting much of that damage blasters are supposed to be good for. What's more is simply approaching a target means they track you just fine as well, and blasters actually don't have dps that's that great when compared to lasers. A pulse geddon only does ~8% less raw dps than a mega and has ~10% more ehp, IIRC the mega would theoretically still win because of resists in a 1v1, but it was a matter of less than 3 seconds. Given that blasters are really bad in fleet engagements, you'd think that they'd be notably better in a 1v1 situation. Unfortunately you'd be wrong. This what happens in an EFT maths fight. In reality I find I have little problems out damaging my opponents.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.04.23 06:39:00 - [16] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Cambarus This what happens in an EFT maths fight. In reality I find I have little problems out damaging my opponents. Proof or stfu.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2011.04.23 06:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Cambarus This what happens in an EFT maths fight. In reality I find I have little problems out damaging my opponents. Proof or stfu. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.04.23 06:59:00 - [18] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: baltec1 This what happens in an EFT maths fight. In reality I find I have little problems out damaging my opponents. Proof or stfu.
Swynet	Posted - 2011.04.23 11:40:00 - [19] Edited by: Swynet on 23/04/2011 11:42:08 Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Probably why they're taking so long to fix them - it's a real problem figuring out how. /agree Quote: - Giving them more range would just make them kinetic/thermal autocannons. The game does not need a clone weapon. Rather use "auto-canons clones" in my hybrids ships than auto-canons that work better even if i loose my ships bonus. Quote: - Giving them more damage/tracking - still sub-par in fleets, but we'd suddenly see 2000dps Megathrons or something similarly ridiculous camping station undocks everywhere. There are already canes, abaddons, maels, vagas etc that fill that role, adding the mega to this kind of game would just make the mega a little bit more useful and fill his close combat role?
mama guru Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.23 13:02:00 - [20] Edited by: mama guru on 23/04/2011 13:03:02 Blaster damage and range is FINE. DEAL WITH IT. What blaster SHIPS need is enough agility to outpreform minmatar ships but without the same top speed. What Blasters need is lower cap requirements aswell as higher tracking ontop of that. Blasters should in my opinion be like short range pulse lasers with improved tracking. (low falloff and "high" optimal with short overall range and super high tracking) _________ EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2011.04.23 13:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington [ Probably why they're taking so long to fix them - it's a real problem figuring out how. - Giving them more range would just make them kinetic/thermal autocannons. The game does not need a clone weapon. - Giving them more damage/tracking - still sub-par in fleets, but we'd suddenly see 2000dps Megathrons or something similarly ridiculous camping station undocks everywhere. Not to mention the impact on the Caldari gunboats. More range on blasters would seriously change the performance of the Harpy, Moa, Eagle, Ferox, and Rokh. The problem as I see it is that pulses have Scorch, ACs have Barrage, but null, except for on the Rokh, doesn't get you beyond scram range on most ships. If they changed the range of Null, the Gal ships would have more flexibility, but the Caldari gunboats would have Scorch-like range. Increase the damage, and the Gal boats become insta-slayers at optimal. The same problem exists for rail guns. Increase the damage to make the Caldari boats more potent, and the Gal railboats would have potentially unbalancing firepower. Scorch and the projectile buff really skewed the balance between the races, but the problem with hybrids in general seems to be the fact that two different races use them on ships with two different types of bonuses.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2011.04.23 13:23:00 - [22] Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 23/04/2011 13:24:29 Ah but how to give the shortest range guns to the fastest ships (with webs as their bonused ewar to boot) without redefining 2 races? What if Gal ships had insane agility? Not bext top speed to able to get motoring or do a 180 superfast. Kinda like Angels but better...
mama guru Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2011.04.23 13:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Daneel Trevize Edited by: Daneel Trevize on 23/04/2011 13:24:29 Ah but how to give the shortest range guns to the fastest ships (with webs as their bonused ewar to boot) without redefining 2 races? What if Gal ships had insane agility? Not bext top speed to able to get motoring or do a 180 superfast. Kinda like Angels but better... See my post above. Anyone with experience in using blasters knows that the biggest problem in most fights is not getting in range it is to avoid overshooting the target and staying in range so you can do some damage. This problem will be solved by lowering the mass and improving agility slightly on the gallente blaster boats. If you ask me blasters should have a really hard time hitting outside scram range but they should have better tracking than autocannons to compensate. _________ EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Scorpionidae	Posted - 2011.04.23 15:06:00 - [24] Wait theres somthing wrong with Blasters? Wow you learn somthing new every day. Scorpionidae
Von Kroll Caldari Kroll's Legion	Posted - 2011.04.23 15:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Daneel Trevize What if Gal ships had insane agility? Not bext top speed to able to get motoring or do a 180 superfast. Kinda like Angels but better... Could potentially screw up the aligning mechanics for warping?
NightmareX Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels	Posted - 2011.04.23 15:28:00 - [26] IF blaster were suddenly fixed... Then my Vindicator would be one hell of an overpowered ship. It would make any Battleships to cry.
Kelio Rift Caldari FREE GATES HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2011.04.23 20:07:00 - [27] Originally by: NightmareX IF blaster were suddenly fixed... Then my Vindicator would be one hell of an overpowered ship. It would make any Battleships to cry. ^That... People would be crying all over the EVE unvierse to NERF blasters... Although, I don't know when people start to realize there is absolutely nothing wrong with blaster, now even with Void. The problem is with the ships. They are very slow, after the MWD nerf, I can't make my Vindi shine with 1300m/s MWD speed, overheated MWD gets it somewhere near there. Also the web nerf... Not slowing that much, but in trade it could web a bit further (Faction ones more further, not factoring overheat). And hell yeah, gallente ships have less armor then amarr, why aren't they faster and more agile? Now that altogether would make my Vindi a hell of a pain for those opposing it. "In a living body, a dead, senseless soul floats, waiting for death, yet cannot laugh..."
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.04.23 20:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Kelio Rift ^That... People would be crying all over the EVE unvierse to NERF blasters. No. They'd just ask for the Vindicator to be nerfed. It's about the only ship in the game that makes the current blasters work the way they should. Quote: I don't know when people start to realize there is absolutely nothing wrong with blaster, now even with Void. The problem is with the ships. No, the problem is also with blasters. Most notably their tracking (which isn't enough to cope with the ranges where blasters are used) and the very small edge in damage they get in relation to the rather large deficit in range. Quote: Also the web nerf. àiow: they have a problem with tracking. But the web nerf wasn't really it ù the real problem stems from the scrambler changes, which increased the tracking requirements by roughly 500%. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
baltec1	Posted - 2011.04.23 20:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Cambarus This what happens in an EFT maths fight. In reality I find I have little problems out damaging my opponents. Proof or stfu. I wouldnt use them if they didnt work.
Kelio Rift Caldari FREE GATES HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2011.04.23 20:39:00 - [30] Ok, let's see the situations... A faster ships is able to escape from your webs, it starts to kite you... Why the hell should you follow if you can never reach it? Change targets, or gtfo, or when they perma jam you, deagress and get out of the system, or dock up. Let's see the scenario when the target cannot escape your webs because you used a Scrambler, but it starts to orbit at a really close range. You have two options, either start approaching, or keep at range. If you approach, but your target wants to orbit on a certain range, your ships will get alligned on almost the same line, which reduces angular and transversal, which means your guns can track. Keeping at range also forces your ships to get alligned on almost the same line, same tracking, guaranteed hits. Only problem is with really small ships. If you are sitting in a blasterboat, don't do the mistake of sitting still. You have thrusters, propulsion, MWD/AB, you are MOBILE. Even if you get webbed to death, you can still turn your ship. That is why people cry about blasters need to be fixed, they can't control their ships. "In a living body, a dead, senseless soul floats, waiting for death, yet cannot laugh..."

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