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New Dev Blog: Fearless, virtual goods and rage

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Zey Nadar Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:15:00 - [2101] Edited by: Zey Nadar on 25/06/2011 08:20:44 Edited by: Zey Nadar on 25/06/2011 08:16:12 Originally by: Gnulpie I think he believes the stuff he said, and it is not unreasonable stuff too. Yes it is. Quote: People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them? For some you will look like the sad culmination of vainness while others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread. Whichever it is, it is clear that by wearing clothes you are expressing yourself and that the price is one of the many dimensions that clothes possess to do that in addition to style and fit. You don't need to buy expensive clothes. In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are. You cannot HONESTLY compare these items into real life clothing??! Virtual clothing that currently NOBODY ELSE CAN SEE?? Items that can be used ONLY IN ONE FRIKKING BOOTH INSTEAD OF THE GAMEWORLD which is the largest of all?? I have never witnessed a larger departure of common sense from MMO developer ever. I do not like what you are using my subscription money for any more. I am losing faith that you are actually endeavouring to improve my game experience. THIS IS NOT IT. DO YOU PERSONALLY WALK AROUND IN 1000$ JEANS DO YOU?? PS. YOU COMPLETELY FAIL TO ANSWER THE MAIN QUESTION OF WHAT PEOPLE IN HERE HAVE ASKED: GOOD JOB COMMUNITY REPRESENTATIVE.
Kalestia Barrak	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:17:00 - [2102] The only thing that matters at the end of the day are subscriptions. Everything boils down to that. Any justification CCP makes regarding the game is ultimately decided by whether or not it results in more or less subscribers. No one person is going to warrant attention if their accounts are canceled. And I would not doubt for a minute that CCP would not flinch until accounts really do run out (such as the unsubbed but active one I use here) and do not renew. So if anyone here really is annoyed at the direction that the game is taking, then vote with your wallet, and be done with it. Find a different game to enjoy in the meantime. Do something new. Take up a hobby. But make a choice, and follow through with it. No doubt many people here unsubbed but will wait and see what unfolds. Maybe they'll renew in a month and never go inactive. Hilmar is right in observing that forum rage is nothing new, and the expansion is still young. There's plenty of time for the anger to die down. We've invested years of our lives here. I have memories and friends I've collected in 6 years of playing this game. I imagined leaving on better terms than this. Incursion broke the camel's back for me. This might do it for others. We're all here posting, hoping for that dev post that says "you know, we were wrong, we're going to go back and fix this. I've been clammoring for it all night. I'm hoping I can find it fun to fly my main again some day. But it may not come. So everyone keep in mind what you post here and the promises and threats you make. Because until all of us start to hit their bottom line, these posts mean little. But perhaps more importantly, let go. Regardless of whether this expansion succeeds and fails, our disappointment and anger is not predicated on everyone else being unhappy, but whether we are still unhappy as well. We play EVE for enjoyment. If it no longer fulfills that desire, then find something that does, and be done with it. Be happy. Hopefully EVE will get back on track and become fun again. And here's hoping that if it doesn't, that we all find something else that is.
Morar Santee	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:17:00 - [2103] It's absolutely epic how more than 5000 posts in a thread started by CCP, and thousands more in others, didn't manage to get the point across to the senior producer of EVE Online. Originally by: CCP Fallout It's a waste of my time, which I could be spent gathering more feedback and talking with people making sure the player's perspective is being shared with people higher up the ladder [...] A lot of your time must have been wasted indeed. Because that dev-blog doesn't address the community concerns. It just doesn't. At all. Period. CCP Manifest even acknowledged he read the big yellow question, quoted it even: WILL YOU INTRODUCE GAME ALTERING ITEMS IN THE "VANITY-STORE"?! 240 pages of uproar in that thread by now. CCP's reaction: "Dear community, ** you. xoxo, CCP Zulu" Well: ** you, too.
Zurtur Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 - [2104] Originally by: Mynex Originally by: boeses frettchen Originally by: Klebzellok 1/10, this is BS. And: Quote: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? - Sig and banner designs!
Memphis Raines	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 - [2105] Originally by: jk scowling Also didn't realise how awesome Incarna was, cheers for clearing that up Zulu, I'll stop whining now. Zulu: "People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes." Oh, ok, at least they won't try selling spaceships through the Nex store, don't think anyone who plays can afford billions of dollars It's awesome? I have a character standing in rusty box doing pretty much nothing right now. Not sure how that's awesome tbfh.
Xeronn Amarr Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 - [2106] Edited by: Xeronn on 25/06/2011 08:21:25 hahahaha delusional ****s they think they have a wow-lvl game when all they have is a bug-filled grind fast that has 1 redeeming quality : the sandbox nature , and it`s inhabited by a bunch of masochists who will put up withj the countless bugs , horrible pve and everything else just so they can troll/kill/destroy eachother freely no...they wont draw any RMT fans here , not unless they rebuild the game from scratch this game offers absolutelly nothing to wow-style players as it is now edit i wonder how many of you , over they years , tried bringing friends in here and how many of you succeded . Oh well...thats what you get when you let economists and marketing dudes make decisions.... die in a fire ccp
Morar Santee	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:21:00 - [2107] Edited by: Morar Santee on 25/06/2011 08:23:38 Originally by: Zey Nadar Originally by: CCP Zulu People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. DO YOU PERSONALLY WALK AROUND IN 1000$ JEANS DO YOU?? He will if people buy his pixel jeans for Aurum.
Kalestia Barrak	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:21:00 - [2108] Edited by: Kalestia Barrak on 25/06/2011 08:21:33 Originally by: Xeronn they think they have a wow-lvl game when all they have is a bug-filled grind fast that has 1 redeeming quality : the sandbox nature , and it`s inhabited by a bunch of masochists who will put up withj the countless bugs , horrible pve and everything else just so they can troll/kill/destroy eachother freely I've been trying to say this in a more eloquent manner for some time, but I think yours is much better.
Arrs Grazznic Poena Executive Solutions	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:21:00 - [2109] CCP Email Quote: ù Email Startsù- Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:16:54 -0400 To: [email protected] Subject: ccp ceo global msg sent today From: [email protected] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=öUTF-8″ Message-Id: <[email protected]> sent by hilmar to ccp global list- (strt) We live in interesting times; in fact CCP is the kind of company that if things get repetitive we instinctively crank it up a notch. That, we certainly have done this week. First of we have Incarna, an amazing technological and artistic achievement. A vision from years ago realized to a point that no one could have imaged but a few months ago. It rolls out without a hitch, is in some cases faster than what we had before, this is the pinnacle of professional achievement. For all the noise in the channel we should all stand proud, years from now this is what people will remember. But we have done more, not only have we redefined the production quality one can apply to virtual worlds with the beautiful Incarna but we have also defined what it really means to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life when it comes to launching our new virtual goods currency, Aurum. Naturally, we have caught the attention of the world. Only a few weeks ago we revealed more information about DUST 514 and now we have done it again by committing to our core purpose as a company by redefining assumptions. After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store. This we have done after months of research by a group of highly competent professionals, soliciting input and perspective from thought leaders and experts in and around our industry. We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change. We went out with a decisive strategy on pricing and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable. That is not saying nothing will change, on the contrary, in fact we know that success in this space is through learning and adapting to _what is actually happening_ and new knowledge gained in addition to what we knew before and expected. All that said, I couldnGÇÖt be prouder of what we have accomplished as a company, changing the world is hard and we are doing it as so many times before! Stay the course, we have done this many times before. (end) Oh, for ****s sake CCP, what are you doing to us?
Zey Nadar Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:23:00 - [2110] Originally by: Morar Santee Originally by: CCP Fallout It's a waste of my time, which I could be spent gathering more feedback and talking with people making sure the player's perspective is being shared with people higher up the ladder [...] A lot of your time must have been wasted indeed. Because that dev-blog doesn't address the community concerns. It just doesn't. At all. Period. I hope that means they are rethinking about it then.

Karol Kei Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:25:00 - [2111] Originally by: Kalestia Barrak But perhaps more importantly, let go. Regardless of whether this expansion succeeds and fails, our disappointment and anger is not predicated on everyone else being unhappy, but whether we are still unhappy as well. We play EVE for enjoyment. If it no longer fulfills that desire, then find something that does, and be done with it. Be happy. Hopefully EVE will get back on track and become fun again. And here's hoping that if it doesn't, that we all find something else that is. There is wisdom in your post that I can relate to. I played for a little under eight years myself. I am part of an awesome community in Eve and I have made a lot of other friends as well. Yet, after cancelling my accounts yesterday and now waking up today I feel liberated. 71,70 a month that I have been paying in a six month plan for all of my six accounts will buy me 1,5 games a month roughly. I hope to get to keep my community through TS3 and other games such as WoT that has just now completed installing. After eight years since 17th of September 2003 I was angry when I cancelled, but I am not angry anymore. It is CCP's game, for better or worse. All I need to worry about is my own fun.
Zey Nadar Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:25:00 - [2112] Originally by: Arrs Grazznic Quote: ù Email Startsù- Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change. It is not innovation we are against you dumb ****s!
Inflicted Death	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:26:00 - [2113] Originally by: PsyBlade Originally by: Kronossan This almost made my cry before I went to bed last night. The Hilmar internal mail I just read really did make me cry :/ can you point to us where the bad man has touched you? For me it was the bit "...defined what it really means to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life...". For me that Just screams god complex.
Tidanis Autistic Sharks Spreadsheets Online	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:27:00 - [2114] I've been inactive for several months now just sustaining my sub with isk while my characters rot away in station. I started playing a little over 3 years ago and I hate to say it: I have no desire to come back here. It would be different if you guys were say making a single player game and you couldn't release content that would alter the game very often so you just do a little survey, do some models, roll the dice, and release what you think will sell well. Well, this is Eve Online where many people come together and are a community to play in the sandbox. I think that management has abandoned Eve in light of Dust and WOD. That's fine as long as you don't depend on the income from Eve, because if so: you shot yourself in the foot. While Dust and WOD might be fantastic games, I will not be a cash cow for your projects while you abandon Eve and leave it to the bean counters to change. The game was getting boring anyway, thanks for sealing the deal with your New Game Direction. Needless to say, I don't look forward to your PAX west booth or after-party- heck consider selling your space because you might need to save some isk. Pretty sad when you come and say that you won't listen to your playerbase because the accountants, modelers, and projections indicate that you will do better off with your new direction. While I am just 3 drops in a very large pool, I will not be renewing anytime soon. Call me once you release an Apocrypha release again. -------------------------------------------- Currently Training: Avoiding Homework, Level 4
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:28:00 - [2115] Basically, a big "**** you" hm? Ok, you think you can't fail anymore? Your ego is through the roof? Well...we will see, and don't expect us to whine about your failure!
Rasz Lin Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:29:00 - [2116] Originally by: Patient 2428190 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 25/06/2011 08:11:39 I guess in a way its admirable to stick by your guns :lolcustomers: Originally by: Rasz Lin unsub, play with PLEX, there are PLEX stockpiles able to sustain whole eve population for few years on the market. Sub is CCPs direct safe steady profit. PLEX on the market is a liability, its profit they already spend on WOD dolls and DUST. That convinces them via lolmetrics (your account still being on and paid for) that its :::WURKING:: I am talking about paying for PLEX with ISK. Using up PLEX stockpiles instead of generating new PLEX.
Kalestia Barrak	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:29:00 - [2117] Originally by: Karol Kei After eight years since 17th of September 2003 I was angry when I cancelled, but I am not angry anymore. It is CCP's game, for better or worse. All I need to worry about is my own fun. /salute
V Issier	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:34:00 - [2118] After this dev blog, I will not be renewing my 2 accounts. Thanks a lot CCP.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:35:00 - [2119] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: CCP Zulu Fearless is one of our company values. Itæs also the name of an internal newsletter that has been designed and developed specifically to catalyze discussions on controversial topics ... The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company. Originally by: Hilmar We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone. Amazing how Fearless can both be a medium for communicating CCP's intentions to its workers whilst at the same time not being a reliable source of CCP's views. Now, there's a recipe for confusion. It's almost as if Zulu has deliberately focussed only on the two way discussion on pages 6 and 7 of the newsletter in order to claim that these are just peoples' opinions, whilst ignoring the article on pages 8-9 which explicitly sets out to explain how the strategy of virtual goods sales will unfold in Incarna to those who may be wondering how things will work in EVE. Originally by: Fearless CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. Whilst this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and Dust514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new model unfold in Incarna? The article then goes on to EXPLAIN how this will work, not to discuss, debate or consider the principles at stake (although there is some speculative discussion of the details). And the EXPLANATION includes items, ammo and ships that can be purchase with MT. Quote: In short, it's the same in Incarna as elsewhere.
Strider Hiryu Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:35:00 - [2120] Insulted. After all the loyalty we show, month after month. Soon the logs truely wont show anything, because noone will be playing the game.... I like beer and cheese...

lilfleeb	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:37:00 - [2121] I'm here to voice my opinion, but as has been said actions speak louder than words. I think CCP have made a big mistake. So big that i have unsubscribed all 3 of my accounts. Thanks for listening
PotH34d	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:38:00 - [2122] The real question here is: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?!! I know what I'm going to do in case the answer is yes...
Onyx Blackman	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:40:00 - [2123] EVE Online: Because Go **** Yourself
Wilson Dixie	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:41:00 - [2124] I'm jealous of everyone in this thread. I wish I could complain about monocles and CQ design and CCP's crooked plans for MT. The update overheats my machine. I can't even play and I probably won't get my money back.
Van Flegg Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:41:00 - [2125] Originally by: Kavin Alavandar Edited by: Kavin Alavandar on 25/06/2011 07:54:46 Originally by: Van Flegg Stuff Well, no kidding revenue is the best measure. Why should it matter to them if they're getting an infinitesimal part of it from someone other than yourself? Some people have an awfully high opinion of their subscriptions. I don't disagree revenue is the best measure on gauging what customers want. But It can't be the only measure. And that's what Hilmar believes, and that's what I take issue with. According to his logic, any feedback we give other than "I'm not paying for this" is meaningless. I don't think my subscription is that important to CCP at all, I conveyed as much in my original post. Originally by: Van Flegg I just became a miniscule negative stat in CCP's future financial report. That's the most attention I'm ever going to recieve by CCP if I want to get my point across. How **ing pathetic is that? But me and others unsubbing still means infinitely more to CCP than anything else we say or do. I'll say it again, it's a **ing pathetic truth of the situation.
Strider Hiryu Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:42:00 - [2126] The logs show nothing... BUT "which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous" I loled how many hours was it delayed.... smooth? gorgeus? Yall must have some hectic drugs in Iceland! I like beer and cheese...
Hyperforce99 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:43:00 - [2127] Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 25/06/2011 08:43:42 This allegedly LEAKED E-MAIL from the CEO of CCP only seems to discuss the prices set forth for the NeX RM store. I couldn't care less about the monocles. I won't be buying them. Regardless, its not the reason people are angry and dissappointed. People want assurance that the NeX store will NEVER move beyond vanity (NON GAMEPLAY IMPACTING) items. That all it will be is a store for fluff. As for the pricing on items. High prices in the real world are based around either: a rare brand name, CCP is trying to make a name for the NeX items, but it won't work. a rare limited stock product, CCP is providing neither of those to its customers. The NeX items are infinite. Everyone in New Eden could have one and there would still be am unlimited supply. extremely high quality products, The quality of the MONOCLE eyepiece can't from a production point of view be worth more than 80 dollars (its a simple model with a simple shader and some sculpting on the characters face). It can be designed and produced in a few hours time. Yet CCP is asking the actual production cost of the item to everyone who wants to buy it. extremely rare materials, Its a digital item, there are no rare materials involved. Other games have tried to sell these kinds of items yes, SECOND LIFE: However in this game items are made by the people that play the game, and they get real money back for it in return. This game is a virtual reality. In EVE CCP is the only company that actually produces these items, and the playerbase is completely different from the one in Second Life. In EVE players value the fact that they have worked hard, or that someone else worked hard to produce or provide a rare battleship, faction ammo, or their standings. By selling these items from CCP, there is no community involvement anymore and the items would effect gameplay. TEAM FORTRESS 2 & LEAGUE OF LEGENDS: These games offer a NON-PERSISTENT world in which 2 teams of identical characters go head to head. The only reason its worth while to buy these items is because of the meta-gaming. However Incarna does not supply this, and the EVE character creator already gives us a great amount of freedom to customize our characters. There is no incentive to buy any of these items, and god forbid they ever become more than vanity items, as the community would explode on you. Incarna is a game that was launched with the WORST PR & COMMUNICATION ever. Deployment wise it might have gone well. But there was no proper communication from CCP before or after its launch. People are having trouble running the Mandatory Captains Quarters / NeX items showcase. If CCP does not come out soon and puts the player bases concerns to rest, this will all end in tears. LISTEN to your community CCP, they are the ones that made you to what you are today, If you lose their trust completely, you will never get it back. Public opinion can be easily taken for granted but once tainted will never recover and drive you into the ground. Your subs will drop, and no 80 dollar monocles will save it! Act NOW, before it is too late. Hyperforce, --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/
Slave Nomore Minmatar	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:45:00 - [2128] seriously I know Iceland is another country but I never realised it was on a different planet before now. This really goes to show you are living in a different world to the rest of us, you have no understanding and seemingly no desire to understand, the issues here. All the devblogs since the release have totally failed to address the concerns, failed to address the issues, and totally failed as any type of PR exercise to ease your customers lack of faith in you to deliver on your promises. you are totally out of sync with reality
Clara Kalsari	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:46:00 - [2129] Quote: Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? I understand its but... With $1,000 I don't buy one Aircraft Carrier with ten F-16, a Dreadnought or maybe Antonov An-225 Mriya...
jk scowling Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.06.25 08:48:00 - [2130] MT has no place in a subscription game. DOn't force us to use Incarna, make us want to use Incarna. Sub almost up, later people o/



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Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?!!