The fact that its better to shield tank the thorax than it is to armor proves that the gallente armor blaster philosophy is broken.

The shield talos is one of the best blaster ships in the game. Fast, mobile, and does lots of damage.

While the failtastic active armor tanking Hyperion is rare used compared to the megathron and its variants.

The Caracal's DPS is gone into earlier in the thread. It's able to fit a 3 BCU setup with HML, MWD, and LSE and come away with a very reasonable tank and copious amounts of ewar. Furthermore, its DPS difference is pretty minor. You're making a big deal about nothing.

IMO the Caracal and the Thorax are THE standouts of this boost, the Stabber is coming out alright, and the Omen is a steaming pile of **** in practical PVP.

-Liang

Get serious :)

Almost no one is using the Caracal today, and for bloody good reason. Now they are talking a 20% damage nerf plus the addition of added damage reduction in the form of TD's.

You have a mediocre tank, DPS half that of an AF, no neut, two small drones, and it's not even particularly fast.... What exactly are you gonna kill with it?

Again, people aren't using it NOW. Why in God's name would they use it when every other cruiser and frigate in the game just got significantly better while this ship got nerfed?

Get serious :)

Almost no one is using the HML Caracal today, and for bloody good reason. Now they are talking a 20% damage nerf plus the addition of added damage reduction in the form of TD's...

That said: Suggested TD changes will hurt solo/small-gang to no end so something has to be done to soften the blow. Not sure when/what the eWar revision is but in the meantime I think that giving TDs the ECM treatment (reduce mod effect, increase hull bonus) is the only way to make it work as is .. the spam will be horrendous and the cries for help will equal that of 'becauseoffalcon' as combat becomes boring to the extreme with winning hulls all having minimum of 4 mids (prop, tackle, TD )

Get serious :)

Almost no one is using the Caracal today, and for bloody good reason. Now they are talking a 20% damage nerf plus the addition of added damage reduction in the form of TD's.

You have a mediocre tank, DPS half that of an AF, no neut, two small drones, and it's not even particularly fast.... What exactly are you gonna kill with it?

Again, people aren't using it NOW. Why in God's name would they use it when every other cruiser and frigate in the game just got significantly better while this ship got nerfed?

The caracal should have a 25 m3 drone bay. Reduce the mass on the caracal as well, I don't see why it should be heavier than gallente ship.

The caracal should have a 25 m3 drone bay. Reduce the mass on the caracal as well, I don't see why it should be heavier than gallente ship.

The omen is the odd ship out of them all because it is stuck with slow armor tanking. Attack ships are supposed to be fast and mobile ships, the omen goes against this philosophy since it is pigeonholed into armor tanking.

The stabber should have 5 turrets and a 25 m3 drone bay, remove one or both missile slots.

Cuz every ship should have a full flight of drones. Especially Caldari!

CCP Fozzie,
Can you look at the following T2 charges for winter too
Hail -50% Range 0.7x tracking
Void -25% range 0.75x tracking
Conflagration -50% range 0.7x tracking
These are all close range charges and they all have a penalty to tracking as well as range, any chance the tracking penalty could be adjusted to a tracking bonus?

Reduce the mass on the caracal as well, I don't see why it should be heavier than gallente ship.

questions?

The will the bonus changes flow through to HACs? I.e. will the Deimos get a tracking bonus and will the Vagabond get two fall off bonuses? Or will HACs be dealt with in a seperate patch?


Also, if the missile changes are implemented, HML caracals I feel will be left behind. Yes additional BCUs will make up for the damage nerf of HMs, but that just means it stays roughly the same while all the other t1 cruisers get buffed. Frig killing Rapid Light Caracals on the other hand will see significantly more use.

Yes, one.
What is your favourite colour?

blue . . .

wait i mean yellooOOOOoooooooo . . .

blue . . .

wait i mean yellooOOOOoooooooo . . .

How will the Caracal fall behind? HMLs are still good compared to other long range weapon systems.

It is unrealistic to expect HMLs to compete with close range weapon systems at close ranges.

The other cruisers gets 5 bonused turrets and the stabber gets 4 + 2 missile launchers, if you want to give it a fifth slot you will have to remove the launcher altogether to balance it and that just makes it the same as the others.
I like this mix and think it should stay. Remember that 4 turrets + 2 neuts is also very powerful.

Nalha Saldana wrote:
Gelvina wrote:
From a skill entry point to these ships I believe the stabber is the hardest to train for.
(for noobs that is offcourse)

firstly you need to train up to tech2 medium autocannons to get barrage.
Which already requires a lot of time for a new player I think (was a long time ago)
Now to properly fly it you require descent missile skills as well?

I know minmatar is in many ships guns+missiles and I like that.
But for this stabber wouldn't it make more sense to maybe give it 1 more turret slot?
I mean its the baby brother to the vaga and you don't need missiles for the vagabond.

Am I making sense?


The other cruisers gets 5 bonused turrets and the stabber gets 4 + 2 missile launchers, if you want to give it a fifth slot you will have to remove the launcher altogether to balance it and that just makes it the same as the others.
I like this mix and think it should stay. Remember that 4 turrets + 2 neuts is also very powerful.]

What you miss is that the stabber has probably another role than the other cruisers. It is more a big frigate than a cruiser and I also suppose that it is either designed to kite other cruisers or to kill frigs (especially T2 slow ones).
It is not meant to stand face to face against another cruisers.
I have to admit that speed is unbelievable important in PVP an CCP misses it often.
The new stabber will be superb. For example: Did you ever tried to kill a dram? Haha. Either you get killed or it simply burns away.

Yeah with 5 turrets and a Drone Bay it could not stand toe to toe with any of these Cruisers. People from using Double DPS Bonused Medium Projectiles have somehow gotten the mistaken idea that they can do a lot of Dmg. The Stabber has been pretty much unused and it has not received a speed increase at all, only all of its competition has, it is just to low Dmg to really see a lot of use.

This thing is going to be 300 or so DPS and lose some of that in falloff, the new Bellicose or if CCP which said they are not changing much on it the Rupture will be the main Minmatar Kiters despite the lower speed. It won't come close in Dmg to the other 3 with a proper Drone Bay and 5th Turret, but it will be usable at the least.

I don't mind if they cut a little speed from the thing if they have too in exchange for a bit of Dmg. I would rather have that then a redux of what we have now that is only slightly better but used for the most part.

What the hell? 300dps and this speed would be far too much. For example the NEW caracal can be happy if it can do 350 dps with HAMs in a really tight fit (2 reactor control unit 2, 2 ballistic control sys) without THAT speed.

Not quite sure what you're saying about future Caracal here, but it will be able to fit HAMs, MWD and LSE with a single ACR, for 396 DPS excluding drones (CN, triple BCS).

What the hell? 300dps and this speed would be far too much. For example the NEW caracal can be happy if it can do 350 dps with HAMs in a really tight fit (2 reactor control unit 2, 2 ballistic control sys) without THAT speed.

If you like suicidal paper tank then yes.