Removing penalties from active-tanking rigs is fine, but mobility penalties on HP rigs should be retained, and extended to shield rigs. Forcing a choice between mobility and EHP is good design.

Current dual-BCS Caracal: 263 DPS kinetic, 210 non-kinetic, with CN to 120 km, 8.4 km/s missiles.
Future triple-BCS Caracal: 252 DPS all damage types with CN to 90 km, 9 km/s missiles.

I'm glad to see the Caracal surviving the deserved HML Drake/Tengu nerf fine.

Current dual-BCS Caracal: 263 DPS kinetic, 210 non-kinetic, with CN to 120 km, 8.4 km/s missiles.
Future triple-BCS Caracal: 252 DPS all damage types with CN to 90 km, 9 km/s missiles.

I'm glad to see the Caracal surviving the deserved HML Drake/Tengu nerf fine.

Looking at the buff on Thorax, the Thorax is supposed to be an agile ship
So, the ship should be fitted with shield to maximize its strength as a blaster ship (and probably kiter ship with rails)

Omen:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1600(+37)

Caracal:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1700(+137) / 1200(+145) / 1500(+171)

Thorax:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175)

Stabber:
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111)

I don't want to count the hull, unless hull tanking exists

Shield + armor :
Omen have 2900
Caracal have 2900
Thorax have 2800
Stabber have 2900

See the problem?

Please add more shield to Thorax
I don't mind if you have to substract the hull point because of that. It's useless anyway

Hams + TE/TC's man..

Thats the way to go!

They already ARE subtracting hull HP. The "+" is a typo, it's a -175 change. The Thorax is getting it's overall HP nerfed a noticeable amount

Rayner,

That was my initial thought as well (it has a big sig as well) but you can't just forget the dps advantage of hybrids. What it lacks in tank, it gains in gank.

And hull is real buffer before you pop, in small ships every HP counts, as the dps your ideal targets is not that high. I recall most frig and cruiser RvB fights ending with the winner in hull. Smoking fights, best fights!

...No no no.... HMLs, sitting at range applying four link-Proteus-boosted tracking disruptors.
Actually that'll work with HAMs too. TDs on everything!

Just realized rail thorax will actually be great.

Thanks for pointing out the typos guys I've edited the OP with corrections. Also we are aware of the price difference and are on top of the issue.

I'll have more to say here later but atm I'm managing one big thread and getting ready to start another one. Busy day.

Well, I was wrong
In fact, whole Thorax defends is nerfed

Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(-175)

Thorax current hull is 1875

I don't want Thorax to be another Diemost (Deimos if you don't know what I meant)

And, Thorax's price is also higher than other attack cruiser due to the mineral requirement

It looks like a nerf because it's currently a tier 2 hull with higher base stats than the other three here. And check Fozzie's post above about the mineral issue.

I'm burning to fly an Exequror+Thorax gang with Celestis support

So tiericide means stripping everything back to the tier 1? The tier that (almost) NEVER gets used?

First of all I do not think Tweaking Existing Game Mechanics can be considered an Expansion. I think Expansions should be about better Graphics (e.g. Update to Existing Ship Models) new Ships, new and improved Game assets and Infrastructure (e.g. POS rework), improved Missions and so on.

Second, these changes to HMLs (which to me is a complete Nerf) makes solo and very small fleet PVE activities extremely difficult. I do not know what is CCP reason behind such an obvious nerf but whatever their intention, it will impact a sizable portion of EVE players in obtaining in game assets. These players may be silent and invisible in the forums but they are a part of what makes EVE a viable business. By removing a useful weapon system without replacing it with an alternative makes EVE (Pay to Play game) into a game style similar to that found on Mobile Platforms. This in the long run may spiral EVE into business difficulty.

Finally, I have to say that CCP should be very well aware that a small group of dedicated players like myself, no matter how may accounts we own, cannot keep CCP alive as a business. I hope that CCP considers its every action very carefully. Because, I like EVE and I want to be able to play this game decades into the future.

First of all I do not think Tweaking Existing Game Mechanics can be considered an Expansion. I think Expansions should be about better Graphics (e.g. Update to Existing Ship Models) new Ships, new and improved Game assets and Infrastructure (e.g. POS rework), improved Missions and so on.

Second, these changes to HMLs (which to me is a complete Nerf) makes solo and very small fleet PVE activities extremely difficult. I do not know what is CCP reason behind such an obvious nerf but whatever their intention, it will impact a sizable portion of EVE players in obtaining in game assets. These players may be silent and invisible in the forums but they are a part of what makes EVE a viable business. By removing a useful weapon system without replacing it with an alternative makes EVE (Pay to Play game) into a game style similar to that found on Mobile Platforms. This in the long run may spiral EVE into business difficulty.

Finally, I have to say that CCP should be very well aware that a small group of dedicated players like myself, no matter how may accounts we own, cannot keep CCP alive as a business. I hope that CCP considers its every action very carefully. Because, I like EVE and I want to be able to play this game decades into the future.

On first glance the Caracal changes looked a bit flacid. Where other already exceptional cruisers become still more epic, the Caldari joke boat would only become useable.

After reading the proposed missile changes I see now that this initial impression was in error. The Caracal will end up worse off than it is today -- a cruiser pushing the DPS of a T1 frigate.

On first glance the Caracal changes looked a bit flacid. Where other already exceptional cruisers become still more epic, the Caldari joke boat would only become useable.

After reading the proposed missile changes I see now that this initial impression was in error. The Caracal will end up worse off than it is today -- a cruiser pushing the DPS of a T1 frigate.

Do you actually solo or small gang PVP or are you just teasing?