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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
860
   |
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:23:00 -
[151] - Quote
Wivabel wrote:Not happy with the thorax. With an 800 plate I can fit only IONs with a 1600 plate I cant even fit electrons without fitting mods. looks like you will not have tank or gank on this ship at the moment.
Ok I take it back it seems to fit out well on the shield side are you guys leaning towards a shield setup because that is what it looks like.
Stabber looks awesome though it is soo soo much faster than the other three may be kinda imbalanced.
Thorax comment doesn't even make sense because they haven't reduced the fitting issues... so why could you do less than you could today.
Stabber DPS is low with 4 guns I think. Can we consider getting a 5th turret slot on there? Just asking. ;p
I think the other cruisers look great. I don't think the caracal needs drones, it has plenty of anti-frig capability with the light launcher bonuses.
Omen looks like it's not going to be an exercise in cramming clowns into a clown car to get anything respectable out of it, which is awesome (not that i use lazors).
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
448
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:24:00 -
[152] - Quote
The Omen needs a full flight of light drones for frigate defense because it lacks an utility highslot and cruiser sized lasers are notoriously bad at killing frigates. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2170
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:30:00 -
[153] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:
With 1 Small Drone / 4 Guns and 1 Dmg Bonus?
I don't see it doing enough Dmg to break it down first, especially with a flight of the Ruptures Drones on it. Escape maybe but the Dmg it can project is a little low.
I would like to see it with a 25-30m3 Drone Bay like the Rupture, 5th Turret as well but mainly the bay.
The Stabber has 2 damage bonuses. The only question you should be asking is how far away it needs to be before the falloff bonus provides more DPS than the 25% damage bonus. IIRC it's not that far - something like 8-10km.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Alara IonStorm
3164
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:37:00 -
[154] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Stabber has 2 damage bonuses. The only question you should be asking is how far away it needs to be before the falloff bonus provides more DPS than the 25% damage bonus. IIRC it's not that far - something like 8-10km.
-Liang
That is factoring the Rupture isn't running Duel TE's and not taking in Drone Dmg. It might have a good chance with most current fits being light on HP for speed of it but it will take a long time to grind it down which isn't optimal in most PvP situations and scales worse in small gangs.
I like the range but the time it would take to realistically kill anything on top of the lack of Drone Defense against Frigs is something that makes me think the ship will be pretty much mothballed by most players like currently. Even if it loses a little speed I think it needs a little more kick to get it out there as a usable ship.
I am under the opinion that more people will use the new Bellicose over the Stabber for this reason. Heck probably even the new Omen over it despite the Cap deficiencies. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:44:00 -
[155] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:That's exactly why I'm thinking that. It'll be better against smaller, and faster targets with the Light Assaults, even Fury Lights, it should get similar DPS after the damage nerf of Heavies, and the damage buff of lights, and the extra lows and easier fitting requirements will make it even better than a 5 HML fit, in my semi-theorycrafted opinion.
Of course, there's a chance that I'm just stupid and terribly wrong. Nah, think you are pretty spot on. Ballpark figures it looks like Lights will do 200-225 dps plus whatever you use for drones. And HML Crapacal looks like 250-275 dps plus drones. So less dmg with Lights (of course), but slightly higher tank, and no worries of dps loss to speed or sig. So not bad.
All things considered, I'd go with a Neutron Shield Thorax instead. |
Borg Zorg
Perkone
Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:54:00 -
[156] - Quote
So if im right,ew cruisers and logi cruiser did get 13 slots,atack cruisers all have 14 slots,so if combat cruisers allso get 14 slot VEXOR IS GETING +2 SLOTS.AWSOM.
And his dps aplaying will not be afectid by NEW TDs that i do asume will be fitid on each ship...
Coments?
Ignor my crap english |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:58:00 -
[157] - Quote
Borg Zorg wrote:So if im right,ew cruisers and logi cruiser did get 13 slots,atack cruisers all have 14 slots,so if combat cruisers allso get 14 slot VEXOR IS GETING +2 SLOTS.AWSOM.
And his dps aplaying will not be afectid by NEW TDs that i do asume will be fitid on each ship...
Coments?
Ignor my crap english They tend to remove slots from droneboats to compensate. Well from Gallente droneboats at least. So figure +1 slot if we're lucky.
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Lelob
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:59:00 -
[158] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote:Lelob wrote:Thorax:
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets
Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 130(-10)
Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Everything looks good here except for this fascination CCP seems to have with giving gallente ships more structure. Sure it's "racial," but nobody gives a **** about structure tanking because there really is no such thing outside of comedy fits. If you want to change the defense on the ship, just remove more of the structure and leave the shields/armor. Seriously, these things are already very thin as it is, so reducing the shields and armor like you have here just does not make sense. I imagine it's to deter people from fitting nanos vs overdrives (think 'ranis) and also to give you some more EHP/time to cycle reps without buffing buffer tanks.
Only idiots fit overdrives instead of nanos on their shield ships, unless they are doing something fairly niche. Nanos are simply better because of the agility and speed they provide. Also, if you are fitting nanos or od's onto your ranis you need to re-evaluate your fit because it sucks.
Quote:pretty sure thorax will have less shield and armor because it is now top tier but will be "only" an attack cruiser, i bet vexor will gain quite some more hp in armor and shield
Yeah what a brilliant idea. A blaster boat that can quickly move in close on you with a wet noodle tank, I'm sure someone with a brain won't instantly primary that. |
Onslaughtor
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:13:00 -
[159] - Quote
On the note of a 10% PWG for beam reduction, I wanted to check and make sure that this applies towards Quad-light beams, because if the others beams get this treatment it could make these guns completely obsolete. Or at the very least give them a buff. |
Alara IonStorm
3164
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:18:00 -
[160] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:it could make these guns completely obsolete.
On all the ships that currently use Quad Beams like...
Whoops you were beaten to that obsolete part. |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
449
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:28:00 -
[161] - Quote
Quad Beams were stillborns. |
Heribeck Weathers
The Executioners
Capital Punishment.
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:31:00 -
[162] - Quote
Stabber: CCP give the Stabber more drones, im thinking 4 lights. drop a high and about 20ms. and giv eit another turet. the stabber may be getting a low, but its doign no more base dps than the curent one. Even if it kites all day it will have to tickle the other ship to death. Is silly that the Belicose will do more dps than the attack cruiser.
Thorax: The Thorax looks nice, tho i think you just made them 80% more likely to be shield tanked, like a mini Talos. tho armor tanked with 2 webs and trackign bonus frigs will die quick.
Carical: better, but instead of a velocity bonus how about a base missle tracking bonus
Omen: im really looking forward to seeinghow the omen works now, dose remind me of a mini geddon afterall.
Over all great but please fix that poor stabber. |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
150
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:37:00 -
[163] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
Wow, that Throax is gonna be awesome. The 4th mid combined with the extra CPU is going to let me fit an actual tank to the damn thing. Fantastic!
-Liang
You mean you can fit a shield tank on it. This is meant to be a armor tanked ship. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
1497
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:38:00 -
[164] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quad Beams were stillborns.
Fixed the OP
Game Designer | Team Game of Drones
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2177
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:42:00 -
[165] - Quote
Marcel Devereux wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:
Wow, that Throax is gonna be awesome. The 4th mid combined with the extra CPU is going to let me fit an actual tank to the damn thing. Fantastic!
-Liang
You mean you can fit a shield tank on it. This is meant to be a armor tanked ship.
Only an idiot armor tanks anything but capitals and perhaps battleships these days. Buffing the shield tanking capability of the Thorax is amazing! It'll be so much more powerful than if they left it with 3 mids like they did the Omen! :D
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
449
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:44:00 -
[166] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quad Beams were stillborns. Fixed the OP
Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless.
Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused. |
Lili Lu
440
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:13:00 -
[167] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quad Beams were stillborns. Fixed the OP Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless. Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused. On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers. On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam).
Not so, I've used dual heavy beams. I think they are an underappreciated weapon, and with Drakes being reeled in closer people might want to reevaluate them. They are ridiculously easy on pg.
But yes quad beams are terrible. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:19:00 -
[168] - Quote
The ship upgrades look good, given the extent of the buff though it is hard to judge the impact.
Thorax
I like the four mids although I suspect with its change to affect all weapon systems it will be filled with the soon compulsory tracking disrupter.
Not sure about the tracking bonus, blaster tracking is not bad as medium guns go, the affect against other cruisers is debatable and the bonus is not enough to make a difference against frigates. My experience also has been that it lives or dies by itGÇÖs cap, pre hybrid buff I would always cap out early and the cap change of the guns combined with this bonus gave the ship a really good run time even comparable to minmatar ships with capless weapons. Yes itGÇÖs cap is buffed but it is not to the level of the current bonus (I think it results in around 20% less capacitor than current when fit with microwarpdrive), getting an extra slot just to fill it with a small cap booster feels a waste. I would also add that there is a general feeling of homogenisation of weapon systems and even ships to an extent and losing unique bonuses is a shame.
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Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
17
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Posted - 2012.09.18 21:20:00 -
[169] - Quote
Just noticed the Thorax shield hp nerf even though it will only be used as a shield max dps fit mm... thought that through did you really? for a ship that cant hit far it might as-well be a combat cruiser in disguise a AB at close range is probably its best way of tanking now in a shield fit the others don't need the tank especially the stabber but the thorax will need some. |
Onslaughtor
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:25:00 -
[170] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quad Beams were stillborns. Fixed the OP Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless. Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused. On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers. On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam).
Aw but this is where your wrong my friend. Because of the massively less PWG & CPU that Quads use you can fit the ship with a lot of power amplifying module, effectively making the guns better in all ways than focused pulse. Also because of there crazy ROF as is, the bonus the ship gives amplifies it considerably. With the new changes this could be mitigated but I'm really looking forward to seeing how much tank i can squeeze on my omen with these changes.
+1 for me.
|
Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club
Transmission Lost
92
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:29:00 -
[171] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quad Beams were stillborns. Fixed the OP Were they missing from the list? If so, that's not what I was referring to. I meant to say that they have always been useless. Any chance to change them to pulse lasers? Ideally, a tier of pulse lasers between heavy and focused. On the frigate level, there are 3 tiers of pulse lasers and 2 tiers of beam lasers. On the cruiser & battleship level, there are 2 tiers of pulse lasers and 3 tiers of beam lasers and basically nobody uses the low tier beam laser (Quad Beam and Dual Heavy Beam). Aw but this is where your wrong my friend. Because of the massively less PWG & CPU that Quads use you can fit the ship with a lot of power amplifying module, effectively making the guns better in all ways than focused pulse. Also because of there crazy ROF as is, the bonus the ship gives amplifies it considerably. With the new changes this could be mitigated but I'm really looking forward to seeing how much tank i can squeeze on my omen with these changes. +1 for me.
Quad beams have shorter range than medium beams (small sized variants). And they use aurora which performs poorly in the range it operates. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
2179
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:37:00 -
[172] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Just noticed the Thorax shield hp nerf even though it will only be used as a shield max dps fit mm... thought that through did you really? for a ship that cant hit far it might as-well be a combat cruiser in disguise a AB at close range is probably its best way of tanking now in a shield fit the others don't need the tank especially the stabber but the thorax will need some.
This is to help offset the extra LSE they gave you.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
565
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:37:00 -
[173] - Quote
Hybrid damage and tracking bonus would also be good for a kitey, rail Thorax. By my crude calculations you could get around 530 DPS with 200mm Rails..... |
Deena Amaj
Community for Justice
Resurrection by Election
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:42:00 -
[174] - Quote
Stabber fulfills the role of "Light Cruiser" well enough in my eyes - likewise making it even more viable with 180s vs fast moving targets. I cannot complain on that one.
But in all respect for balance, I'd rather have the stabber only have 4 High Slots. The reason I say this is because it receiving four Med slots and even four Low slots - that is already more than rewarding next to the falloff bonus and the speed it will have.
confirthisposmed
I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:55:00 -
[175] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Harvey James wrote:Just noticed the Thorax shield hp nerf even though it will only be used as a shield max dps fit mm... thought that through did you really? for a ship that cant hit far it might as-well be a combat cruiser in disguise a AB at close range is probably its best way of tanking now in a shield fit the others don't need the tank especially the stabber but the thorax will need some. This is to help offset the extra LSE they gave you. -Liang
I assume you mean a second LSE which is tough to fit without dropping to ions, combined with the ASB and general stat EHP buffs I expect cruiser fights to be longer which in turn may put pressure on your now lower cap level cap mod may still be required in that mid. |
Sigras
Conglomo
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
200
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 21:57:00 -
[176] - Quote
Wivabel wrote:Connall Tara wrote:wivabel:
[Thorax, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
this is now... I think we'll be fine with the new layout with 30 extra cpu for MOAR WEBBING! considering the overall preformance the single PG rig isn't exactly a crippling weakness ^_^ it is dumb to need a fitting mod to fit the smallest guns
Does that include putting an XL booster on a cruiser? because thats basically what youre doing here with the 1600 plate. Thats a battleship sized module and youre putting it on a cruiser . . . try that with basically any other cruiser.
The LSE on the other hand is actually a cruiser module given its PG/CPU requirements. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
861
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 22:56:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Takeshi Yamato wrote:Quad Beams were stillborns. Fixed the OP
The funny thing about Quad Beam Lasers is that Medium (Small) Beam lasers do as much DPS almost... Have almost the same range... and use less fitting.
Think about it.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Onslaughtor
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
10
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 23:18:00 -
[178] - Quote
So with these being attack cruisers and with our lovable attack frigates getting a role bonus, could we possible give a role bonus to these ships in the form of the old thorax MWD cap pool reduction? Just a thought. |
Furry Commander
Furry Armada
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 23:21:00 -
[179] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:So with these being attack cruisers and with our lovable attack frigates getting a role bonus, could we possible give a role bonus to these ships in the form of the old thorax MWD cap pool reduction? Just a thought.
i actually like this idea a lot |
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 23:34:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP YOU JUST MADE THE TENGU USELESS AND NOT ON PAR WITH THE REST OF ITS T3 COUNTERPARTS, "-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)" MISSILES ARELEADY HAD LOW DPS AS OF RIGHT KNOW DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME. BATPHONING CSM
Heavy Missiles
-Base flight time reduced by 30%
-Base velocity increased by 6.66%
-In total, base range reduced by ~25%
-Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit)
-Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF.
Tech Two Missiles
-At the moment Fury missiles at Light and Heavy sizes have a faster explosion velocity than precision missiles, weGÇÖll be fixing this defect as part of the changes.
-Remove ship penalties from tech two missiles (ship velocity and signature radius)
Precision: Increase bonuses to explosion velocity and explosion radius, increase damage to match T1 missiles, reduce flight time slightly
Fury: Increase damage, increase penalties to explosion radius and velocity
Javelin: Just remove ship penalties
Rage: Reduce range, increase damage slightly |
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