Shield Myrm, best Myrm. Always has been. Nano Shield Laser, Shield Gank Blaster, Passive Shield AC, Dual XL ASB, man the list just keeps going on!

-Liang

Yes because what EVE needs is slower armor cruisers fit with 1600mm plates.

If they removed or made unfittible the 1600mm plate the effect would be no one using 800mm plates as current or the armor ships they go on unless they can jigger up a shield fit.

The problem is not 1600mm plates being too good, it is a mix of armor balance and 800mm giving low HP.

Shield Myrm, best Myrm. Always has been. Nano Shield Laser, Shield Gank Blaster, Passive Shield AC, Dual XL ASB, man the list just keeps going on!

-Liang

Ed: To keep things on target here: the Omen is the only Attack cruiser pigeon holed into armor tanking. This fact by itself makes the ship total ******* garbage. IMO it really needs the cap bonus internalized and replaced by an optimal bonus! :)

But what is the worse issue, armor tanking is crap, of shield tanking is op?

But what is the worse issue, armor tanking is crap, of shield tanking is op?

On the small scale however, armour rules supreme. Frees up the desirable mids and damage thrown around is generally low enough for reps/rr to keep on top of things.

really another ship with velocity to missle why ? especialy now that the heavy missle recieved a nerf and that of the fury in dmg potential i mean really ? is there any point in flying missle boats any more ?

Fixing armor tanking is easy (dunno why they haven't done it yet)
On a side note: Why not have the Gallente have a similar play-style to minmatar? Armor or Shield tank with a lean towards armor, the minmatar leaning towards shields.

Run the numbers on the ship before you post something like this. New Caracal will be able to hit at 90k doing roughly the same amount of damage it currently doe in Kin but with all missile types.

Fixing armor tanking is easy (dunno why they haven't done it yet)

Move speed penalty from armor rigs to agility penalty.
Move armor penalty from astronautics rigs to hull penalty.

Done.

On a side note: Why not have the Gallente have a similar play-style to minmatar? Armor or Shield tank with a lean towards armor, the minmatar leaning towards shields.

really another ship with velocity to missle why ? especialy now that the heavy missle recieved a nerf and that of the fury in dmg potential i mean really ? is there any point in flying missle boats any more ?

Like that idea, will make Gallente more interesting.

Fixing armor tanking is easy (dunno why they haven't done it yet)

Move speed penalty from armor rigs to agility penalty.
Move armor penalty from astronautics rigs to hull penalty.

Done.

On a side note: Why not have the Gallente have a similar play-style to minmatar? Armor or Shield tank with a lean towards armor, the minmatar leaning towards shields.

perhaps the osprey navy issue could become a rail sniper so the moa could be the brawler

Other way around then anything, I would rather not have the Caldari Rail Boat have to be a Faction Ship.

I would prefer they made the Moa good enough with Rails that people say "Fit Blasters on it are you crazy it's a Moa."

Leave Blasters to Gallente and stop sidelining sub large rails.

i see what you mean but with the merlin and ferox both being brawlers it makes more sense to carry the line on and who uses rail eagle/moa/ferox anyway?

I think you hugely underestimate the importance of agility. I don't think we'd see a real improvement with this solution.

-Liang

Speed isn't a good penalty, if Agility isn't either, what would you suggest instead?

Ferox isn't a Brawler it is a broken Rail Boat.

So you say no one uses Rail Eagles / Ferox's / Moa's and bastardize them with Blasters?

Guess what you are right and that is the problem. CCP should not be converting these ships to their Shield Gallente bastardizations they should be fixing medium Rails and every Caldari hull they **** into the short range is a step backwards from that.

Medium Long Range Guns have problems, I would rather see this addressed then bandaged over with Blasters. Isn't that why we have been waiting so long for Ship Stat adjustments, so they will do it right?

True but at the same time the Tier3 bc's have killed off cruiser snipers anyway so why pigeon hole them into something that won't get much use.

However a navy sniper cruiser will be able to get the bouses to make long range weapons on cruisers more worthwhile

Not for long :) lol

Glad you agree that long range medium weapons are getting the shaft.

Perfect reason to fix the Rail Moa instead of bastardizing it.

The Stabber in its current proposed form still has the same problem it always did, mainly, a lack of purpose and mission, otherwise known as a reason to exist.

The Stabber was one of those GÇ£that would be neat ideasGÇ¥ that never really developed into a viable playing concept outside of limited nitchdom, not because the ship is that bad, but because as it is currently designed by the time you can fly a Stabber well, you can fly a Hurricane, and lets face it when you match the two up aside each other, the Hurricane can do everything the Stabber can do better, faster and sexier.

What the Stabber really needs to be viable is a purpose, a mission, that only the Stabber can perform. I propose that the Stabber needs to be the EVE Online version of the WWII PT boat. It in short needs torpedoes.

Here me out. Torpedoes are short range, high damage devices. Like Stealth Bomber, it requires teamwork. One Stabber is not going to propose a great danger to any larger ship. However, a squadron of Stabbers making a high speed torpedo run on a large ship is guaranteed to get the attention of any large ship captain.

To deliver the torpedo attack, the Stabber has to enter the high risk area of getting within web range of the enemy ship. The PT boat concept fits perfectly with stated Minmatar design goal for the Stabber, as a high speed hit and run combat ship.

My only remaining concern with the Stabber as currently proposed is the single drone drone bay. In my opinion, a single drone is worthless. Either make it big enough for full flight of 5 small drones if you believe the Stabber needs the extra drone based DPS, or get rid of it altogether and focus on the primary DPS delivery system.

Speaking of drones, several authors on this thread have expressed concern about the proliferation of drone bays on non-drone boat ships throughout EVE is diminishing the value of dedicated drone boating, and I have to say I agree with their concerns.

My suggestion for fixing this would be only allow tech 1 drones on non dedicated (read no drone bonuses) boats or alternatively allow them to only them fly the racial tech II drone of the race that designed the ship.

One possible way to accomplish this would be to say a Minmatar vessel with a 25 MHz bandwidth drone bay would be able to fly five Warriors II (the Minmatar light combat drone) but any other race drone take twice the bandwidth, so only two of the GÇ£foreignGÇ¥ as Minmatar vessels are optimized for Minmatar drones, and less efficient with drones of other races. So if the Minmatar vessel has a 25 MHz bandwidth, it could fly 5 Warrior II, or 2 light drones of any other race for example the Gailante Hobgoblin IIGÇÖs. There would be no penalty for using Tech I drones, any and all Tech1 drones could be flown any vessel without penalty to bandwidth.

There you have it, my off the cuff musings tossed out for public discussion.