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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Alara IonStorm
3161
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:36:00 -
[121] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: With the falloff bonus i'm pretty sure it will outdps the rupture at 20 km? I havn't done the math though so i could be wrong.
Oh god no. The Rupture has 4 extra drones, 25% more Dmg and room for an extra TE.
The Stabber will be left in the dust. The bonus and slot give it a little extra DPS we are talking below 300 before falloff starts cutting it off and that is with missiles and lower with Barrage. |
PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
206
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:37:00 -
[122] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote: CCP, quit giving drones out to everyone and their mother just because you hate Gallente!!!!
Just my two cents from a true Gallentean, Yun
This, Please stop nerfing Gallentte by giving drones to everything under the sun.
The Thorax is hard enough to fit it as is, the problem being that the 800 plate fit Thorax dies to everything it engages. I imagine now I'll have to fit a sensor damp on every gallente ship now just to be able to survive the time it takes to get in range. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
206
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:38:00 -
[123] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: I don't care if they knock 30m/s off of it, it needs more Dmg if it is going to be used at all. Otherwise it is in the same position it was in before.
This
Bring it closer to Thorax in terms of speed but give it better damage.
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Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
82
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:38:00 -
[124] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Still not convinced that axing grid and reducing arty requirement is the way to make sure auto boats are not free-to-fit-anything + max dps. Yes, ships designed for artillery has a massive surplus when fitting autos, but wouldn't increasing auto fittings solve that just as well without making artillery a lot more viable on other races hulls? Thorax is going to be the new FoTM. Dual prop it and abuse that tracking bonus .. holy mother of the sacred hot potato .. hope you nerf/remove ECM drones before that goes live or space risks being very bland (more than now) indeed
The thorax got more CPU, not more PG. That extra mid is so you can fit an ASB (see increased cargo hold as well), the new FOTM. I doubt many will dual-prop it. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
720
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:41:00 -
[125] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Omen: Cruiser skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1600(+37) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+44) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1) Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+2) Signature radius: 125 Cargo capacity: 400(-50) Currently the Omen has 15 band/15 bay for drones, meaning that an increase to 40 band/40 bay is +25/+25 not +30/+30.
Alara IonStorm wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: With the falloff bonus i'm pretty sure it will outdps the rupture at 20 km? I havn't done the math though so i could be wrong.
Oh god no. The Rupture has 4 extra drones, 25% more Dmg and room for an extra TE. The Stabber will be left in the dust. The bonus and slot give it a little extra DPS we are talking below 300 before falloff starts cutting it off and that is with missiles and lower with Barrage. I agree with this man. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
minuseb
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
2
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:46:00 -
[126] - Quote
Lelob wrote:Thorax: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 130(-10) Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Everything looks good here except for this fascination CCP seems to have with giving gallente ships more structure. Sure it's "racial," but nobody gives a **** about structure tanking because there really is no such thing outside of comedy fits. If you want to change the defense on the ship, just remove more of the structure and leave the shields/armor. Seriously, these things are already very thin as it is, so reducing the shields and armor like you have here just does not make sense.
pretty sure thorax will have less shield and armor because it is now top tier but will be "only" an attack cruiser, i bet vexor will gain quite some more hp in armor and shield
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Kumduh
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:50:00 -
[127] - Quote
Has any thought been given to reducing Heavy Assault Launcher's PG cost as well? |
WInter Borne
Cold Station 12 Surely You're Joking
8
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
So the cerberus is even worse than the eagle now? |
Aglais
Liberation Army BricK sQuAD.
92
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:55:00 -
[129] - Quote
Well that's all fine and good that the Omen is going to be usable. I will likely try it.
But here's the thing. Is the Caracal going to be even remotely usable against things it's own size after this winter? Are we going to actually be able to fit a HAM Caracal that has any semblance of defense, or is it going to be a slower than average glass cannon with HAMs, or just an utterly useless HML boat that will be forever laughed at along with the Drake, and most Caldari T2 ships? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
288
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:55:00 -
[130] - Quote
Svennig wrote:The thorax got more CPU, not more PG. That extra mid is so you can fit an ASB (see increased cargo hold as well), the new FOTM. I doubt many will dual-prop it. As things are now certainly, but ASB's are getting changed so I chose to ignore that broken POS in my comment
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
20
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:05:00 -
[131] - Quote
Not seeing any quad light beam laser changes in here. |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
16
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:11:00 -
[132] - Quote
[quote=Wivabel]Not happy with the thorax. With an 800 plate I can fit only IONs with a 1600 plate I cant even fit electrons without fitting mods. looks like you will not have tank or gank on this ship at the moment.
Ok I take it back it seems to fit out well on the shield side are you guys leaning towards a shield setup because that is what it looks like.
Stabber looks awesome though it is soo soo much faster than the other three may be kinda imbalanced.[/q
mmm... i like the tracking bonus for sure but as an shield fit which it will prob be used with its pg gimped so much what is it with ion's as highest tier lately? But surely it then needs a lot more shields having to fit in close as i doubt rails will fit |
Harvey James
Prospero's Sight
16
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:13:00 -
[133] - Quote
Also not sure about keeping a unbonused weapon system on stabber did you think it would be OP with 6 autos? in which case change it for a low it will be infinitely more useful |
CraftyCroc
Gunpoint Diplomacy
42
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Please fix ecm |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2169
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:24:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Alongside the announcement of these ships, we're also proposing some adjustment to the fitting requirements of certain medium sized turrets which will help us keep the fittings of several ships within better ranges as we go forward: -Drop the powergrid usage of Focused Medium Pulse lasers by 5% -Drop the powergrid usage of Heavy Pulse lasers by 10% -Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized beam lasers by 10% -Drop the powergrid usage of all cruiser sized artillery by 10%
Holy ****. I am going to **** people with lasers.
Quote: Omen: Cruiser skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire Slot layout: 5 H, 3 M, 6 L (+1), 5 turrets Fittings: 925 PWG (+195), 315 CPU (+65) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(+27) / 1700(+137) / 1600(+37) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1475(+225) / 526s(+79.75s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+44) / 0.51(-0.05) / 11650000 / 5.6s (-0.5) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10) / 300(+7) / 6(-1) Sensor strength: 15 Radar (+2) Signature radius: 125 Cargo capacity: 400(-50)
I'll have to play around with it, but at a glance I'm not excited. That makes me sad because the Omen was the ship I was most excited about.
Quote: Caracal: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L (+2), 2 turrets, 5 launchers Fittings: 630 PWG (+100), 430 CPU (+80) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1700(+137) / 1200(+145) / 1500(+171) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1250(+187.5) / 445s(+63.75s) / 2.8 (+0.02) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 225(+47) / 0.425 / 12910000 / 5.1s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 57.5km / 270(+28) / 6 Sensor strength: 16 Gravimetric (+1) Signature radius: 135 (-10) Cargo capacity: 450
Damn, this ship is going to be somewhere between the Navy Caracal and Navy Osprey in mobility. This ship combined with missiles and ewar is going to be ******* brutal.
Quote: Thorax: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 130(-10) Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Wow, that Throax is gonna be awesome. The 4th mid combined with the extra CPU is going to let me fit an actual tank to the damn thing. Fantastic!
Quote: Stabber: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff Slot layout: 6 H, 4 M (+1), 4 L (+1), 4 Turrets, 2 Launchers Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 285(+54) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3) Signature radius: 105 Cargo capacity: 420
I guess it's a big improvement, but I don't think it's going to compete with the Caracal and Thorax.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
82
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:25:00 -
[136] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Svennig wrote:The thorax got more CPU, not more PG. That extra mid is so you can fit an ASB (see increased cargo hold as well), the new FOTM. I doubt many will dual-prop it. As things are now certainly, but ASB's are getting changed so I chose to ignore that broken POS in my comment
Let's see. I use an ASB on some fits and I think they're OP as hell, they need a good nerf. But the intention is clearly ASBs or cap injection with a cargohold that size and +1 mid.
I mean now a shield thorax can do MWD, point, web/hardener, extender/shieldbooster/capbooster.
Because, let's face it, none of these ships are going to armor tank with the exception of the Omen. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
20
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:32:00 -
[137] - Quote
Svennig wrote:But the intention is clearly ASBs or cap injection with a cargohold that size and +1 mid.
dual web armour, wreck afterburner noobs all day
I do think the CCP guy wants us to do shields though.
Also I hear a certain powerful midslot ewar module is about to get way more powerful. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
54
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Damn, this ship is going to be somewhere between the Navy Caracal and Navy Osprey in mobility. This ship combined with missiles and ewar is going to be ******* brutal. Methinks somebody has not read the missile nerf thread. |
Alara IonStorm
3162
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:36:00 -
[139] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: I'll have to play around with it, but at a glance I'm not excited. That makes me sad because the Omen was the ship I was most excited about.
What were you hoping for?
Liang Nuren wrote: I guess it's a big improvement, but I don't think it's going to compete with the Caracal and Thorax.
-Liang
I don't think it will compete with the current Rupture. |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
205
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:38:00 -
[140] - Quote
Svennig wrote:I mean now a shield thorax can do MWD, point, web/hardener, extender/shieldbooster/capbooster.
Because, let's face it, none of these ships are going to armor tank with the exception of the Omen. Er you forgot to put an actual shield tank on your shield-tanked ship. |
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Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
447
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:40:00 -
[141] - Quote
Edit: deleted my rant about tight fittings after realizing that Pulse lasers get a PG reduction too. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
566
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:44:00 -
[142] - Quote
Quote:Stabber: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff Slot layout: 5 H(-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+2), 4 Turrets, 1 Launchers Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 350 CPU (+50) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1400(+111) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 285(+54) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.3s (+0.2) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3) Signature radius: 105 Cargo capacity: 420
this is what i would do to the stabber... Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2169
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:45:00 -
[143] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Damn, this ship is going to be somewhere between the Navy Caracal and Navy Osprey in mobility. This ship combined with missiles and ewar is going to be ******* brutal. Methinks somebody has not read the missile nerf thread.
No, I read it. The 25% range nerf is totally meaningless to HML and the 20% damage nerf is completely offset by the extra fittings and low slots on the Caracal. The ship is tons better than it is today. I haven't looked at whether or not HAMs are legit on the Caracal yet, but HAM + TE might be pretty amazing as well.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2169
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Posted - 2012.09.18 18:58:00 -
[144] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: I'll have to play around with it, but at a glance I'm not excited. That makes me sad because the Omen was the ship I was most excited about.
What were you hoping for?
The Omen cannot possibly hope to be successful because it's the only attack cruiser that's being forced to armor tank (3 mids). The minor range difference between the Null Thorax and Pulse Omen is more than overcome by how absurdly fast the Thorax is. The Caracal has mids galore for ewar and is pretty damn fast with great damage projection.
What I was honestly hoping to see was a fast and agile Omen with optimal range + damage bonus instead of ROF+Cap. I'm also disappointed by how many drones are being thrown onto the newly buffed ships.
Quote:Liang Nuren wrote: I guess it's a big improvement, but I don't think it's going to compete with the Caracal and Thorax.
-Liang
I don't think it will compete with the current Rupture.
It'll work just like the Vaga/Cynabal do, except be worse at it. I imagine a kiting Stabber would beat a Rupture handily.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Alara IonStorm
3162
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:07:00 -
[145] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: What I was honestly hoping to see was a fast and agile Omen with optimal range + damage bonus instead of ROF+Cap. I'm also disappointed by how many drones are being thrown onto the newly buffed ships.
I was hoping to see it Apoc'd as well. I don't think throwing a Cruiser sized Drone Bay is really that bad a thing.
Liang Nuren wrote: It'll work just like the Vaga/Cynabal do, except be worse at it. I imagine a kiting Stabber would beat a Rupture handily.
-Liang
With 1 Small Drone / 4 Guns and 1 Dmg Bonus?
I don't see it doing enough Dmg to break it down first, especially with a flight of the Ruptures Drones on it. Escape maybe but the Dmg it can project is a little low.
I would like to see it with a 25-30m3 Drone Bay like the Rupture, 5th Turret as well but mainly the bay. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
54
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:08:00 -
[146] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Damn, this ship is going to be somewhere between the Navy Caracal and Navy Osprey in mobility. This ship combined with missiles and ewar is going to be ******* brutal. Methinks somebody has not read the missile nerf thread. No, I read it. The 25% range nerf is totally meaningless to HML and the 20% damage nerf is completely offset by the extra fittings and low slots on the Caracal. The ship is tons better than it is today. I haven't looked at whether or not HAMs are legit on the Caracal yet, but HAM + TE might be pretty amazing as well. -Liang Reckon we have different definitions of "amazing" and "tons better". 20% damage nerf is the equivalent of losing a launcher. Even with the RoF bonus and 2 extra low slots you're not surpassing the current Crapacal by much. Sure it gets the extra 50m/s, about 10% more base hp, and a bit more cap (still has cap problems though) but doesn't really seem that much better.
And HAMs appear like they will fit with some mods. But it still looks pretty glass-cannon. Might be good in some situations, not so much against frigs though with only 2 drones for defense.
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Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc. State Section 9
5
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:14:00 -
[147] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Damn, this ship is going to be somewhere between the Navy Caracal and Navy Osprey in mobility. This ship combined with missiles and ewar is going to be ******* brutal. Methinks somebody has not read the missile nerf thread. No, I read it. The 25% range nerf is totally meaningless to HML and the 20% damage nerf is completely offset by the extra fittings and low slots on the Caracal. The ship is tons better than it is today. I haven't looked at whether or not HAMs are legit on the Caracal yet, but HAM + TE might be pretty amazing as well. -Liang
Personally, I'm of the opinion it might actually be better off with Light Assault launchers with Fury lights loaded. It might actually get better (or just similar) DPS than an HML Caracal with possibly smaller explosion radii and with a greater explosion velocity, while also being quite capable against frigates with a quick ammo swap. Also, the Light Assault launchers have lower fitting requirements than HML's, and the range won't be too short with the Light Missiles, even Furies. I also think the increased lows will greatly improve its effectiveness against frigates. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
54
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:17:00 -
[148] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Personally, I'm of the opinion it might actually be better off with Light Assault launchers with Fury lights loaded. It might actually get better (or just similar) DPS than an HML Caracal with possibly smaller explosion radii and with a greater explosion velocity, while also being quite capable against frigates with a quick ammo swap. Also, the Light Assault launchers have lower fitting requirements than HML's, and the range won't be too short with the Light Missiles, even Furies. I also think the increased lows will greatly improve its effectiveness against frigates. Good point. Especially with the changes to explosion radius and the extra 10% dmg light missiles get.
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Martin0
Maximum-Overload
67
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:22:00 -
[149] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:These things are supposed to be fast,
Stop complaining your god damn 1600-¦s wont fit ffs..
No. I'm complaining that you can't get a decent dps. A thorax with a 800mm and ions only have 24 dps more than a thorax with a 1600mm and electrons. I would be happy to fit a 800mm if i could get good dps, maybe move the medium to a low so that i can fit anothe magstab, otherwise everyone will just shield tank it. |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc. State Section 9
5
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:23:00 -
[150] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Goldensaver wrote:Personally, I'm of the opinion it might actually be better off with Light Assault launchers with Fury lights loaded. It might actually get better (or just similar) DPS than an HML Caracal with possibly smaller explosion radii and with a greater explosion velocity, while also being quite capable against frigates with a quick ammo swap. Also, the Light Assault launchers have lower fitting requirements than HML's, and the range won't be too short with the Light Missiles, even Furies. I also think the increased lows will greatly improve its effectiveness against frigates. Good point. Especially with the changes to explosion radius and the extra 10% dmg light missiles get.
That's exactly why I'm thinking that. It'll be better against smaller, and faster targets with the Light Assaults, even Fury Lights, it should get similar DPS after the damage nerf of Heavies, and the damage buff of lights, and the extra lows and easier fitting requirements will make it even better than a 5 HML fit, in my semi-theorycrafted opinion.
Of course, there's a chance that I'm just stupid and terribly wrong. |
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