Rofl.
I have flown drake almost 4 months with another char. HM against faster frigs is almost useless.
Even precision missiles. And it was a relatively high skilled char.
Sorry but if someone trolls then it is you.
Ever tried to get under a canes guns? Well try it. Slicers are blown mostly with one alpha. Something a Drake can only dream of.
And inbetween: Drake vs Cane was always the same: At higher ranges cane simply gets away because of higher speed. And at close range I died because I hadn-¦t any invu fields any more because of neuts.

..yet you keep comparing the drake with an AC cane, which has NO relevance to this discussion....also using the precissions in their current state shows clearly why you've failed. But rejoice!!!! Precissions are getting buffed too!!!

Not every hull that uses heavies sucks completely either, Rooks are pretty serviceable but again, there's no mass proliferation of them.....

WHAT!?! HML on the Rook .. a travesty I say, TRAVESTY!

HAM Brawler Rook every day of the week.

Even so, why is it that most of the complaints about Tengu/Drake being nerfed, in the guise of feedback, does not include the other biggies in this thread: The ability to modify launcher performance with generic weapon upgrade mods and TD's ability to affect same performance?

I already called the SNI will become a (PvE) monster with these changes

People here either don't know a crap about what they are talking about or are completely dishonnest.

Some things to know :
- HML will only be hit by a SLIGHT nerf for their intended purpose ;
- HML are LONG RANGE weapons, they should be balanced around LONG RANGE weapons ;
- ALL other missiles will get a BUFF due to TE/TC and T2 missiles buff.
- Caracal will be BETTER.

Tank/dps are not the only caracteristics of a ship...

I doubt about SNI. It has good tank, but don't have nor range bonuses for torps neither enough launcher slots to make bearable dps with Cruieses. CNR and Golem on the other hand have potential for it.

This man gets it.

New HAM Caracal:
+2 lows
+ fitting
+ drone bay (?)
+ RoF bonus (much better than +kin)
+HP
+speed/agility
+effect of TC/TE

How is it worse?

I still believe heavies will be useless on unbonused ships though.

If heavy missiles are as overpowered as is to be believed (and don't mistake me, they could well be) the fact that they're only workable on two (thoroughly dubious for other reasons) hulls tells you just how poor all the other hulls available are. Not even a 'massively overpowered' weapon system is enough to pull the other ships up to par.

Balance is good, but do it properly!

People here either don't know a crap about what they are talking about or are completely dishonnest.

Some things to know :
- HML will only be hit by a SLIGHT nerf for their intended purpose ;
- HML are LONG RANGE weapons, they should be balanced around LONG RANGE weapons ;
- ALL other missiles will get a BUFF due to TE/TC and T2 missiles buff.
- Caracal will be BETTER.

Tank/dps are not the only caracteristics of a ship...

5 T2 hams PG 630, thats the entire pg of a caracal.

sure skills can lower that.

then again you need to it propulsion mods to dictate range T2 10mn MWD 165 pg

Large shield extender II 165 PG


so unbonesed fit having a pg gap of 330 PG, with 1 Large extender and a MDW.


Drone bay is the same as before the reballance

All cruisers got extra hp and speed/agillaty.

use TC/TE canceled out with TD.

So Ham caracal still fitting horror, HML Drake hardly any change as to what it was. valuable option Rapid light missile launcher, good nice frigate killer with little use outside FW

720 arty cane with 2gyros and 2 te's has 4 mods for enhanching the weapon.....and even then you ONLY get 291 dps....heated at that....so you waste some slots only to try to get close to drake performance....and still fail at that. Drake gets 484 with furies at that range.

Rofl.
I have flown drake almost 4 months with another char. HM against faster frigs is almost useless.
Even precision missiles. And it was a relatively high skilled char.
Sorry but if someone trolls then it is you.
Ever tried to get under an arty canes guns? Well try it. Slicers are blown mostly with one alpha. Something a Drake can only dream of.
And inbetween: Drake vs Cane was always the same: At higher ranges cane simply gets away because of higher speed. And at close range I died because I hadn-¦t any invu fields any more because of neuts.

People here either don't know a crap about what they are talking about or are completely dishonnest.

Some things to know :
- HML will only be hit by a SLIGHT nerf for their intended purpose ;
- HML are LONG RANGE weapons, they should be balanced around LONG RANGE weapons ;
- ALL other missiles will get a BUFF due to TE/TC and T2 missiles buff.
- Caracal will be BETTER.

Tank/dps are not the only caracteristics of a ship...

The HML caracal will be mediocre. The HAM caracal has very nice dps but looks too flimsy for my liking. The RLML caracal is going to be pretty awesome, not just for killing unwary frigates but as a general purpose combat cruiser.

This whole thread would be way more productive if we knew numbers on how TD/TE/TC/TL would affect missiles. Whithout numbers it's just a wild guesses, we all know that CCP can do such extremes like +5% range per TE and +30% range per TE.

Through Wibbly Wobbly Sciency Wiency... Stuff

This whole thread would be way more productive if we knew numbers on how TD/TE/TC/TL would affect missiles. Whithout numbers it's just a wild guesses, we all know that CCP can do such extremes like +5% range per TE and +30% range per TE.

All long range weapons and sometime close range weapons are generally useless against a tackler who is on position and up to speed, this is how the game works. The fact the missile user will be able to add a little (ok very little vs intys) dps to help is drones is in fact an advantage.

actually, while fury cruise got a slight damage buff, they also got a exp radius nerf.
This sucks since cruise missile damage application is their bad part.

Precision are getting buffed pretty nicely which is good, but at a loss of range I think.

no amount of range will offset a 20% damage nerf. imagine your employer decides to cut your salary by 20% and only gives you free coffee in exchange.

Yeah, Fury cruise looks like they have pretty good damage on paper, but when you actually shoot stuff in missions, where they are mainly used, the damage application is so bad (even with 3 rigor / flare rigs, 2 meta 4 TPs, and explosion velocity & radius implants) that you can actually run most of the missions faster with T1 ammo + CN launchers.

And now they say that they are planning to increase the explosion velocity and explosion radius of T2 high-damage ammo. This makes the now rarely used T2 damage ammo (except with the Tengu) even more useless. Seriously, where do you expect us to use Fury cruise? What are we supposed to shoot with it?

Yes, I know no one here cares about missions or cruise missiles. I feel like I'm posting something very off-topic but after all the title says this is a "missile rebalance" thread so ...

I doubt about SNI. It has good tank, but don't have nor range bonuses for torps neither enough launcher slots to make bearable dps with Cruieses. CNR and Golem on the other hand have potential for it.

People here either don't know a crap about what they are talking about or are completely dishonnest.

Some things to know :
- HML will only be hit by a SLIGHT nerf for their intended purpose ;
- HML are LONG RANGE weapons, they should be balanced around LONG RANGE weapons ;
- ALL other missiles will get a BUFF due to TE/TC and T2 missiles buff.
- Caracal will be BETTER.

The way I feel it should be(changes from the graph are underlined)

Beam lasers - best close range, worst mid range(nerf), moderate long range (buff)

Rails - worst short range(nerf), moderate mid range, best long range(good, but with some buff)

Arty - moderate short range(slight buff), best mid range(buff), worst long range(nerf, but not out of range)

heavy missiles - moderate short range(buff), moderate mid range(nerf), moderate long range(actually present/buff)

This means every weapon system has a range at which they are the king, but also a range at which they are the worst.

While missiles would never be the worst at any range, they'd never be the best at any range either.


Building each weapon system in this manner (including close range weapon systems) this would actually help to keep a check on combat so that no single weapon system would be the trump card.
This would also help to suggest a mixed fleet doctrine.

This puts all systems in check because if someone ever makes a pure fleet again, well then a mixed, or possibly pure fleet of another weapon type will be able to determine the range of combat, thus defeating the enemy by putting themselves at optimal, but not their target.

Now, it suggests to them mixed fleets because you'll be prepared for any type of fleet reguardless of what range they come in at, and you'll still be able to determine the range of battle when you attack someone else.

* A slight nerf? This is a game in which people train months for a few percent improvement. CCP isn't using a scalpel here, they are using a chainsaw.

* This is only true if we assume that they will also be balanced at shorter ranges. That's not what CCP has proposed.

* All other missiles are going to get a buff (though we have to see what CCP actually does before this is worth discussing) but at the same time we also know that all other missiles are going to get a nerf with this TD thing.

* The Caracal, even with the added low slots, will do LESS dps than it does today. If I recall from the other thread, it will be doing somewhere around 250 dps, minus whatever TDs take away. In other words, it's a cruiser that has trouble actually hitting frigates or other cruisers, and pushing out T1 frigate DPS.



I agree. Why is it that you seem to forget this when comparing the HM Drake to other BC's?