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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
760
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 13:46:00 -
[121] - Quote
Selinate wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Selinate wrote:Why should CCP step in for your sorry asses?
It's just 15$ a month. Pony up and pay. Because they make more money per PLEX bought than per month of direct account subscription? It's in their own best interest to keep the PLEX market healthy. Depends on your definition of healthy. Healthy according to the OP? No. If I suddenly decide to buy 300 or 400 plex at Jita and just trash them all or go in a bestower and see how far I get and have the plex destroyed, then CCP will be loving that. It won't be good for any of you plexing players though. How does that help CCP at all? If you buy 300 or 400 PLEX, you bought that many PLEX. It doesn't matter much to CCP what happens to the PLEX after that, except that when that much PLEX gets destroyed the cost gets run up and as a result less people will be willing to buy it. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4679
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 13:57:00 -
[122] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up?
The net amount of ISK in circulation increases by a few trillion each month.
The end. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Sasha Deren
Oxide Interstellar Associates
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:01:00 -
[123] - Quote
Seems to me to be a simple case of demand out stripping supply, since volume traded appears to be on a downward curve over the last couple of weeks.
I would hazard a guess that demand is coming from FW players plex'ing accounts via proceeds from LP cashouts, possible PLEX hoarding by speculators and the traditionally busier Q4/Q1 just around the corner too.
CCP can stimulate the supply side by further PLEX buying offers in account management, but the adjustment to demand will require a longer term fix. Then again, I pay RL cash for my sub and tend to use PLEX purely for ISK supply so I'm not really worried either way. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
367
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:18:00 -
[124] - Quote
Sasha Deren wrote:Seems to me to be a simple case of demand out stripping supply, since volume traded appears to be on a downward curve over the last couple of weeks.
I would hazard a guess that demand is coming from FW players plex'ing accounts via proceeds from LP cashouts, possible PLEX hoarding by speculators and the traditionally busier Q4/Q1 just around the corner too.
CCP can stimulate the supply side by further PLEX buying offers in account management, but the adjustment to demand will require a longer term fix. Then again, I pay RL cash for my sub and tend to use PLEX purely for ISK supply so I'm not really worried either way.
I believe that an old demand is drying up leaving lots of ISK out there to increase the price of PLEX: those that used to spend about a trillion ISK on Titans saw the titans nerfed to near obsolecence so now we have ALOT more ISKies that are no longer tied up in the builing of these behemouths. Would be interesting to see what thosethat used to buy PLEXes fortitansare doing now but that kind o stat I doubbt is not even accessable to Dr E since it isn't really quantifiable except by conjecture Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
367
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:22:00 -
[125] - Quote
Zhade Lezte wrote:And oh so sorry OP, but this "nullsec zealot" doesn't really give a damn about your desire to keep my carefully thought out opinion out of the topic :P
I am interested in CCP's take on it, however.
i DOUBT ccp WILL HAVE A TAKE ON IT They have closed ranks on almost all economic stats of Eve... no QEN for years, Dr E's blogs have not been commented for months, & CCP Diagoras has not tweeted stats since the beginning of summer. We are looking at a news blackout from CCP on all things economic. Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
295
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:24:00 -
[126] - Quote
He who buys the plex from CCP controls the price. The more things you use plex for, the more likely people are to buy the plex from CCP.
You shouldn't be able to pay for a years subscription with less than a months play time. A billion ISK for 6 months of gametime isn't as much as some people think. There's a large number of players with an abundance of ISK and nothing to spend it on. Once someone has purchased 6 months or a years worth of gametime they're unlikely to buy any more plex in game, and the guys trying to sell what they got from CCP lose a potential customer.
The number of potential isk for plex buyers lost is constantly rising, and reduces the number of $ for plex buyers.
CCP can't depend on speculators and new accounts to stimulate the sale of plex for $.
The overal price of plex should always be rising; the rate of increase is more important than "it costs to much". Plex sales aren't to reduce the cost of plex for ISK, it's to control how quickly the overall price rises.
More "plex for..." options are needed. Or Lot's of really rich EVE characters need to stop playing for a couple of years. And CCP would have to remove all means of generating isk through gameplay for a little while. And Make ISK dissapear from everyones wallet over time.
In the meantime, learn to make more money. |

Karrl Tian
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:34:00 -
[127] - Quote
1) It's not CCP's job to control the price of stuff (or it shouldn't be).
2) Within the last two months they buffed the amount of ore a single miner could bring in while "improving" FW via letting people farm billions of isk on day-old alts in naked frigs (I've even seen mining frigs used). The increase in isk generation led to an economic event known as "inflation" where prices on everything sky-rocket from an overabundance of currency.
3) Nerfing highsec would lower the PLEX price as an overall reduced isk income would force sellers to bid lower. Carebears don't/won't see this, thinking any proposed changes exist solely for the purpose of dumping them into a gatecamp. |

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
295
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:40:00 -
[128] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:1)
3) Nerfing highsec would lower the PLEX price as an overall reduced isk income would force sellers to bid lower. Carebears don't/won't see this, thinking any proposed changes exist solely for the purpose of dumping them into a gatecamp.
Would just slow it down, ISK has already been earned and it's not being removed from the game at a significant rate; which will always be the case. |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
367
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 15:52:00 -
[129] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:1) It's not CCP's job to control the price of stuff (or it shouldn't be).
2) Within the last two months they buffed the amount of ore a single miner could bring in while "improving" FW via letting people farm billions of isk on day-old alts in naked frigs (I've even seen mining frigs used). The increase in isk generation led to an economic event known as "inflation" where prices on everything sky-rocket from an overabundance of currency.
3) Nerfing highsec would lower the PLEX price as an overall reduced isk income would force sellers to bid lower. Carebears don't/won't see this, thinking any proposed changes exist solely for the purpose of dumping them into a gatecamp.
miners are not rolling in ISK its the FW Tier 5 farmers that are the root of the PLEX spike its NULL/LO SEC that needs the ISK nerf with thier LPSTORE reductions & passive TECH income Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |

baltec1
Bat Country
2301
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 16:00:00 -
[130] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
miners are not rolling in ISK its the FW Tier 5 farmers that are the root of the PLEX spike... its NULL/LO SEC that needs the nerfs with thier LP STORE reductions & passive TECH/moon goo incomes
Hundreds of mining bots pop up in high sec over the last 2 months.
Plex prices rocket in the last 2 months.
Yep, it can't be miners! |

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
368
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 16:03:00 -
[131] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
miners are not rolling in ISK its the FW Tier 5 farmers that are the root of the PLEX spike... its NULL/LO SEC that needs the nerfs with thier LP STORE reductions & passive TECH/moon goo incomes
Hundreds of mining bots pop up in high sec over the last 2 months. Plex prices rocket in the last 2 months. Yep, it can't be miners!
Talking about bad correlations... miners individually unlike FWfarmers are NOT MAKING BILLIONS OF ISK PER WEEK Nostalgie ist die Faehigkeit, darueber zu trauern, dass es nicht mehr so ist, wie es frueher nicht gewesen ist. -- Manfred Rommel-á |

Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 16:14:00 -
[132] - Quote
More like hundreds of FW exploiters show up in the last few months and Plex prices skyrocket. |

baltec1
Bat Country
2301
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 16:27:00 -
[133] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
Talking about bad correlations... miners individually unlike FWfarmers are NOT MAKING BILLIONS OF ISK PER WEEK
Plex = a monthly cost. I think miners can manage to scrap up enough cash to pay for one and make a little profit. And I am willing to bet there is a hell of a lot more of them. |

Garresh
Deep Axion Ushra'Khan
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 17:51:00 -
[134] - Quote
Doctor Gordon Freeman wrote:Obviously CCP controls the RL $ price of plex, but could CCP be conducting experiments on us by making shadow purchases of plex ingame, and studying the outcome on their spreadsheet, observing the relationships between the variables as number six is experimentally manipulated?
How would we know? Is it a conspiracy to maximize number four and number five, lol? Is it far-fetched bunk?
Does anyone feel it's become a greater and exciting challenge over the last year to pay for your account with plex instead of real money?
Maybe it is just demand. Entirely possible.
I've wondered about people going back to school in the fall too, and whether that has anything to do with it.
Amusingly enough, if they *were* to do something like that on any sort of large scale there would be telltale signs in the economy because they would be creating isk with every shadow purchase. Those signs would be massive isk inflation as they are effectively creating a hidden, but extremely powerful isk faucet. So the eve economy would kind of look like it does right now. 
|

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
42
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:00:00 -
[135] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up? nulsec carebears driving up the price with passive moongoo isk. 
what he really meant to say, but daren't because of his POS owning overlords. |

Lysa D
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:31:00 -
[136] - Quote
There are 2 main factors that affect price: supply and demand.
Both Faction Warfare and an increase in AFK mining will increase demand. In both scenarios, players have realized that if 1 account makes N isk, 2 accounts make 2N isk, 3 accounts make 3N isk, etc. If N is higher than the cost of PLEX, the player may feel that he/she can maximize their ISK by subscribing more accounts. This increases demand which drives prices up.
CCP is also adding more ways to spend a PLEX other than adding game time. Just recently, there was an announcement about resculpturing your character for a PLEX. This also increases demand.
There is a secondary effect though. A sustained higher ISK price for PLEX will cause 2 reactions:
1. Some people will not be able to afford a PLEX. They are earning N isk a month, factoring in P price of PLEX. When N-P is too low (or below 0), they will stop buying PLEX for the account. This decreases demand.
2. Sustained elevation of the ISK price of PLEX may convince people to purchase PLEX with real money. These could be existing people who buy PLEX who decide to buy more (to maximize their in-game profit) or these could be people who normally don't buy PLEX but are attracted to the elevated price. This increases supply.
This secondary effect is what will (eventually) drive PLEX prices down. How far down? I'll leave that to the market speculators. |

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
494
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:33:00 -
[137] - Quote
Gogela wrote:
I think PLEX prices are going to be over 750 mil ea by mid December.
Well, I know what I'm asking my family to get my for Christmas...
Titan, here I come!
Lock up your staions and hide your daughters.
Nulli incoming |

Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
708
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:37:00 -
[138] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
Talking about bad correlations... miners individually unlike FWfarmers are NOT MAKING BILLIONS OF ISK PER WEEK
Plex = a monthly cost. I think miners can manage to scrap up enough cash to pay for one and make a little profit. And I am willing to bet there is a hell of a lot more of them.
So you just completely dismiss the LP unbalance that is FW because your focus is solely on high sec miners?  Kewl. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |

Selinate
1019
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:40:00 -
[139] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: How does that help CCP at all? If you buy 300 or 400 PLEX, you bought that many PLEX. It doesn't matter much to CCP what happens to the PLEX after that, except that when that much PLEX gets destroyed the cost gets run up and as a result less people will be willing to buy it.
Drives up the price of plex, people want to buy more plex for the same amount of money to get more isk for their buck, makes more plex sell. Because so many of you people have decided that you have to have plex in order to play the game, it's like gasoline at this point, you have to have it. In other words, you'd buy it anyway while the price goes down slowly due to the lessening demand of those who refuse to buy it at that price.
Not that complicated. |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
238
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:41:00 -
[140] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Naturally, this thread will be hijacked by the null sec zealots screaming "nerf high sec!", but does anyone at CCP, who is not part of the null sec cadre, have any idea why plex prices are out of control, and have numbers to back it up?
Lets see, could it perhaps be something to do with an ongoing global recession meaning people have a little less RL isk to spunk away on internet spaceships?
No it couldn't be that. |

Aareya
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:baltec1 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
Talking about bad correlations... miners individually unlike FWfarmers are NOT MAKING BILLIONS OF ISK PER WEEK
Plex = a monthly cost. I think miners can manage to scrap up enough cash to pay for one and make a little profit. And I am willing to bet there is a hell of a lot more of them. So you just completely dismiss the LP unbalance that is FW because your focus is solely on high sec miners?  Kewl. The FW farming scenario will change with the winter patch (1-2 months from now?). AFK mining will still exist. People concerned with rising PLEX prices will be more concerned over longer term prices changes over short term (1-2 month) changes. This makes the discussion around the FW point relatively moot. |

Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
708
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 18:56:00 -
[142] - Quote
Aareya wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:baltec1 wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
Talking about bad correlations... miners individually unlike FWfarmers are NOT MAKING BILLIONS OF ISK PER WEEK
Plex = a monthly cost. I think miners can manage to scrap up enough cash to pay for one and make a little profit. And I am willing to bet there is a hell of a lot more of them. So you just completely dismiss the LP unbalance that is FW because your focus is solely on high sec miners?  Kewl. The FW farming scenario will change with the winter patch (1-2 months from now?). AFK mining will still exist. People concerned with rising PLEX prices will be more concerned over longer term prices changes over short term (1-2 month) changes. This makes the discussion around the FW point relatively moot.
Show me please that dev blog or a dev quote where CCP acknowledges that their first mayor FW fix in years missed the boat and they are going to fix it again. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |

Regan Rotineque
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 19:01:00 -
[143] - Quote
Only have one thing to say about this
\o/ - let the free market reign !
~R~ |

Aareya
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
8
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 19:27:00 -
[144] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Show me please that dev blog or a dev quote where CCP acknowledges that their first mayor FW fix in years missed the boat and they are going to fix it again.
Luckily, a new post has gone up on a certain EVE news site that lists upcoming changes (including the FW "LP whoring" change).
Detailed changes to FW can be found inside the EVE Online forums. Look for the post with the CCP DEV logos next to them. |

baltec1
Bat Country
2303
|
Posted - 2012.09.29 21:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:So you just completely dismiss the LP unbalance that is FW because your focus is solely on high sec miners?  Kewl.
FW has nothing to do with the plex price rising. The cause of plex price rises is the hundreds of new mining bots all using plex to stay subbed. When FW LP farming gets its nerf plex prices will not go down. |

Sudri Namian
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:09:00 -
[146] - Quote
Plex price reached 640 mil prob 700 by tommrow . CCP needs to step in ! |

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6018
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:11:00 -
[147] - Quote
Sudri Namian wrote:Plex price reached 640 mil prob 700 by tommrow . CCP needs to step in !
Yes, they need to get the prices up to 1b so I can make profits while at the same time making back my losses on those stupid Hulks. CCP owes me for that one  "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |

Lord Ryan
True Xero
699
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:22:00 -
[148] - Quote
Why would CCP care? I'm not a fanboy and I still can't blame CCP. Yes they could be using that scam the one guy tried to tell us about, but I doubt it.
Anyways if plex price bothers you so much, buy a bunch and sell at the rate you think they should go for. They are on sale right now. clicky! Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |

F'elch
Wall Street Trading
76
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:30:00 -
[149] - Quote
You mean you're not paying with bitcoins?
N00b. |

Speaker for TheDead
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 20:43:00 -
[150] - Quote
Why is this so hard to understand? Are people expecting CCP to insert ghost plex into the system to meet demand? Plex supply is tied to the number of people willing to buy plex for money, or time-codes for money. Less people willing to waste their hard earned money on plex + more people wanting to play for free = more demand/less supply = higher prices.
At some point, people will stop subbing alts, demand will go down, and prices will stabilize, I wouldn't ever expect them to drop though.
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