well i was considering fitting a couple of ECCM projectors on my nyx and jumping it in to rep myself but the sabre and his dishonoure vessel alt warped off :\

People that complain that solo PVP is dead expect fair fight when they undock.

No such thing as a fair fight. If you have prepared for a fair fight you have already lost the fight even before you engaged.

ECM
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Nothing is killing solo PVP. Those things already killed solo PVP. Good day!

Fair Fights and Honor Duels died, in 2004.

Welcome to OffGridBoosters: Online.

I think ECM is pretty broken as an EWAR in general. The ability to completely break locks (and thus break ALL offensive or RR modules is a tad bit crap).

I proposed an idea in F&I that got equally flamed/supported that proposed to change the ECM effect to disabling hislots of a target ship, removing the hit-or-miss drawback of ECM and also removing the absolutely crippling effect of breaking locks entirely. This way, mids (scrams, webs, etc) and lock can remain in place, but depending on how strong the jam is, you could be -8 hislots removing the ability to shoot, RR, command boost, smartbomb, bomb-bomb...

This way ECM boats can focus on taking DPS/logi/command bonuses (when they have to be there) off the field instead of taking other ECM boats off the field... and ECCM won't seem like a gamble for a mod since the chance-based system could still jam you if you are an unlucky bastard.

IMO that "crippling effect of losing targets" - essential and the same thing happens with a sensor damp hitting you at range - you lose targeting. I don't see why ECM should be gutted so badly but I do find the current operations to be a problem.

Also, ECM deals with targeting - not slots that may or may not hold targeting equipment. Sensor damps mess with range & time to acquire a target - ECM? ... Yours is an interesting idea but it has some ugly implications.

I did come up with a different approach that is ... odd. What other attributes are there to targeting? Quantity.

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No chance based operation. It works reliably and predictable all the time, just like Sensor Damps and any other type of EW.

ECM and ECCM go over to a system more like points/scrams vs warp core stabs but allow/mandate stacking to use for high effects - just like most other types of EW.

Each cycle of the initial ECM would cost you all your targets - additional applications (stacking of mods/drones) would not do this though each module/drone would decrement your max target count. You can target 8 ships, a strength 3 ECM would drop that to 5 ships max you could target.

The target reduction would be based upon your skills more than the ship. So if you had Targeting + Multitasking both at 5; to block targeting, they'd need to jam that 12 max, not just the 2-10 that a ship can target to entirely prevent locking of any targets. (you could train to enable better protection - just like other EW have skills to help against them.)

If at any point a jamming ship goes out of range or loses targeting on the jammed ship, it stops - just like killing a sensor damp ship, it frees you from all effects when the signal is disrupted. (no 20s jam timer).

ECCM would provide 2 effects: 1) Potential protection from being jammed at all. 2) Added number of targets that can be potentially locked (excess targets - like having skills trained to target 12 while flying a ship only able to target 8. It would take that 12 to 14 -- zip effect unless ECM jammed.)

"jammed at all" protection - if it's protection value exceeds the jam value of the ECM ship, you won' t lose all targets each time it cycles (though it will reduce your "excessive" max target count). In other words, a multi-spectral jam with a strength of 1 hitting a ship with an ECCM strength of 2 - the target wouldn't lose targeting though it's max target count would be decremented by 1. (stacking could still gut your ability to target anything but you wouldn't lose targeting every cycle).

Modules and rigs to help ECM would change to range, cycle time, etc. vs strength to improve /rand chances. It opens up a lot of options for how meta variations can work while still retaining most of the GTFO protection - 100% target loss per cycle if they don't have ECCM? Yet you still may not get away - it only decrements the absolute max count of targets while costing the lock but only at cycle time.

Net effects:
ECM always has "some" effect when applied to a target yet that effect can be mitigated by skills and fittings vs hit or miss based upon a randomizer.

ECCM works predictably and reliably to counter ECM effects; it isn't seen as a crap-shoot solution but a predictable counter.

Targeting and Multi-tasking gain value to train farther.

You'd probably also want other types of EW along for gang ops vs just ECM ships -- get those lock times up or that "each cycle" may not be good enough - it's not 20 seconds to reacquire anymore. Immediately able to retarget.

I've used the current ECCM and it's a very crappy counter to ECM - plus ECM itself... 20 seconds is a LONG time to sit without targeting in a fire-fight yet that ability to break locking is pretty crucial to its functionality and use. Leave that in there but provide ways to counter it - and potential counters to the counter...

Like I said - an odd view of a potential fix.

What is a good target to engage while jammed?

Small gang is good too, but I like going it alone at times. Solo PvP is the best ... when you can actually get it.

ECCM totally gimps your ship, and it doesn't even work well enough to justify the gimp fit.

ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.

DFA200 wrote:
ECM should be removed or at least severely nerfed. Then people who like it can deal with it.

Yes, when it does get nerfed the whine will be reversed, not that I don't enjoy being in fleets where we have ecm superiority... but I won't miss it if it was gone

I had a nice talk with a friend the other day about ecm, if said I could just get a falcon alt too for solo basicly :3 but I really do prefere the fights where the guy you killed says gf in local :)

There is a reason we call it dishonour drones when bringing ecm drones, but sometimes a gank is fun too where the guy you killed gets mad and yells at you :)

Just like killing hulks before the buff, doing it for the lols,

I understand it from both sides of the spectrum, I am no better than everyone else when I am in fleets with falcons regulary, yet call the people who perma jam me when I am flying solo for fags :) so being on both sides of it.... the counter needs to be buffed or ecm needs to be nerfed... But really CCP needs to talk with us all about the plans so we can come with input soon

ECM has been weakened already and will not be weakened again.

Sure, why not gimp your fit in order to account for a ship that can probably jam you even with counter-ECCM fit?

It still disables a ship for 25-30 secs, which is exactly how i remember it from 1-2 years ago. So if it has been "weakened", it's clearly not enough.