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How to Boil a Frog

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Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1302	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:26:00 - [1] - Quote from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/10/how-to-boil-frog.html Every player meet, every fanfest, CCP Soundwave trots out the same tired vision, how one day he would like to turn off CONCORD and leave policing in the players hands. Every time he does this, I'd like to smack him upside the head. Because it's an empty statement. If this is really his vision, he should discuss in some broad terms how he sees this happening. Under what conditions could this be made possible? He never goes beyond the platitude, though. Why? Because it is never going to happen. Never. Never. Never. Ever. Not unless highsec is effectively turned into a gank-free zone. But first, frogs. Toss a frog into some boiling water, it's going to freak the hell out and immediately try to escape. But, put a frog in some cool water, very slowly increase the temperature of the water over time and the frog will not perceive the danger, eventually boiling to death. Or so the hypothesis goes. Turns out it is complete bunk, the frog will hop out of the water when it becomes uncomfortably warm. As a metaphor, though, the boiling frog anecdote is instructive. Before Incarna, CCP had the mentality that they could do no wrong. Players would accept and be happy with anything released. Subscriptions would continue to slowly grow. CCP was the company that hubris built. And then thesummer of 2011 came, the **** hit the fan, the players were unhappy, subscriptions were cancelled. CCP was faced with the realization that what they did might not be appreciated. The goose might not lay golden eggs in perpetuity. CCP discovered fear. CCP was the company that EVE built, and all future CCP plans were dependent on EVE's continuing success. There would have been no DUST without EVE. There will be no vampires without EVE. Fear had CCP paying close attention to the tears of their players. Historically, the most whining, the most threats of ending subscriptions, have come from the carebear segment of the playerbase. Those players that spend the majority of their time in highsec, refusing to understand the game they signed up for, refusing to understand the concept of the sandbox. Carebears want to play their game, without inconvenience, and hell-or-high-water the game should cater to them, or else. For the past year, since Crucible, CCP has been paying attention to their superbears. They do happen to be a significant portion of the playerbase. Fear of the threat of losing subscribers. You cannot blame CCP, they are a business, they need their subscribers. But the fear comes from many directions. How to satisfy the superbears, without pissing off the people who understand and accept the harsh realities of EVE Online? It's a slender tightrope to walk. So CCP learned how to boil a frog. CCP feels they need to cater to the carebears, mollify their threats, but all the while they cannot do so in a way that will anger the PvPers. You can't toss in a tonne of changes that protect carebears all at once. That's tossing the frog into a boiling pot of water. CCP has to raise the temperature slowly. So, we've been seeing incremental changes to highsec. A little here. A little there. All the while, hoping nobody would notice the overall direction they were taking. Increasing the costs of wardecs. Buffing mining ships to an obscene, nearly ungankable level. The so-called idiot switch to protect players from their own stupidity. The removal of can-flipping. Buffing CONCORD response. A change here, a change there. Control the message of those changes ("this behaviour was never intended," even when those behaviours have existed for years and never classified as exploits.) The mining barge buff. It sounded all good in the soundbites leading up to the changes. "We wish to create mining roles. A different ship for different situations." Yet, in all their wisdom, CCP created a single ship that outstripped every other in utility. A massive tank, a massive ore hold, and an almost top-end mining yield. Did CCP honestly expect that every miner was not going to gravitate straight to the Mackinaw? CCP could remove every other mining barge from the game tomorrow, and nobody would notice. And then the rumoured idiot switch to be introduced with Crimewatch. Three levels. Green, yellow and red. Set to green by default. And when set to green, the game does not allow a player to do anything that might set them to the new suspect level. No dialogue windows that ask "Are you sure?" The game will simply fail on any action that would lead to a suspect or criminal flag. The sandbox now protects you from your own stupidity. There's no need to understand how the game works, the switch protects you from the game. The sandbox now comes equipped with some chainlink fencing. Fence your carebear gameplay off from the rest of the game. Sure, chainlink can be breached with some effort, but most players won't bother. (cont'd next post) Caldari Militia
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1302	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:26:00 - [2] - Quote If certain segments of the player population begin to notice that the water is warming, then redirect the hell out of these potentially damaging conversations with "one day we'd like players to take over for CONCORD." And the rising complaints are mollified as those players forget about the temperature of the water and begin fantasizing themselves in the role of space police. They'll say "CCP understands where to take this game. These new features change the nature of the sandbox, but it's meant to move us to the promised land. So we'll wait and see." But what is this promised land? Under what conditions could CCP remove CONCORD and not break the game? As it stands now, to turn off CONCORD would be to turn all of highsec into lowsec. And that's definitely not going to happen. Never. Ever. So the promised land has to be a place where space has become so safe, so regimented, so rules restricted, that CONCORD is an entity that is rarely required. Suspect and criminal flags such a rare occurence, that players can become the police, because the need for a super-police is now moot. And this might be the situation that CCP Soundwave envisions. The only real instance in which CONCORD can be safely removed from the game. Players can then call themselves the space police, except that there's nothing left to police. Caldari Militia
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:28:00 - [3] - Quote TL;DR >> It's tough being a frog. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
James 315 Experimental Fun Times Corp 2919	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:34:00 - [4] - Quote @ OP I agree! -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½ The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range.
Jim Era 4301	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:38:00 - [5] - Quote wat
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:39:00 - [6] - Quote James 315 wrote: @ OP I agree! Agree with what? You bypass aggression mechanics and Concord anyway I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 254	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:39:00 - [7] - Quote Soundwave is French?
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 915	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:40:00 - [8] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: James 315 wrote: @ OP I agree! Agree with what? You bypass aggression mechanics and Concord anyway Pray do explain how that works. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 57	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:42:00 - [9] - Quote tl/dr Only 1 way to play the sandbox ?
Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:43:00 - [10] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: James 315 wrote: @ OP I agree! Agree with what? You bypass aggression mechanics and Concord anyway Pray do explain how that works. Did they make bumping red flashy while I was asleep? I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.

Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1222	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:44:00 - [11] - Quote Me patently awaits for all standard weapons to have a .4 or under restriction. All missions to be moved to low, low to be policed by concord ships, low to be renamed high, and high to be renamed as simply Empire, and any or all empire pvp is FW, who have the only empire legal faction weapons.
Arec Bardwin 768	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:44:00 - [12] - Quote The highsec hate has really been heating up the forums lately, hasn't it? James Amril-Kesh wrote: Pray do explain how that works. You know, bumping?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2633	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:45:00 - [13] - Quote damnit Arec Bardwin, whenever I see that I have to say it out loud like Kim Jong Il (video is NSFW, strong language right off the bat. The thought is shared usually around once a day every time I log on the forums) "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com
Jonah Gravenstein Mahatma Cote Temporal Research 1566	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:45:00 - [14] - Quote The flip side of the new idiot switch is that CCP are trying to appeal to a wider demographic, hopefully drawing them in from other MMOs where molly coddling and hand holding are the norm. Some of the current mechanics are arcane and convoluted to say the least and it's very easy to trick the uneducated into doing something unwise. Personally I hope they succeed in bringing in new players so that we can introduce them to a proper game that doesn't involve cartoon pets and proper PvP where if you die you actually lose stuff. However if they go too far with the idjit proofing they risk alienating their current players, and the current players are the ones that have created Eves reputation as the pinnacle of what a game can be. TL;DR new players are good, losing old players is not. Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid---
Silk daShocka Lawn Dart Industries 32	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:47:00 - [15] - Quote Maybe CCP is just trying to entice the frog back into an area of the sandbox that suits it's lifestyle better. Or maybe it takes time to develop these things, such as it takes time to bring water to a boil. Perhaps even, changes are being implemented at a slow pace to observe the results and to avoid breaking things.
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1226	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:49:00 - [16] - Quote Posting because I like frogs and oppose them being boiled. Also: Frog joke. Q: What did Kermit the Frog say when Jim Henson died? A: Nothing. Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦ GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1557	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:52:00 - [17] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Me patently awaits for all standard weapons to have a .4 or under restriction. All missions to be moved to low, low to be policed by concord ships, low to be renamed high, and high to be renamed as simply Empire, and any or all empire pvp is FW, who have the only empire legal faction weapons. So the Empire miners will be just cheery? Cool story. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Jonah Gravenstein Mahatma Cote Temporal Research 1566	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:52:00 - [18] - Quote Gogela wrote: Posting because I like frogs and oppose them being boiled. Also: Frog joke. Q: What did Kermit the Frog say when Jim Henson died? A: Nothing. Gogela you're slacking, you missed the opportunity to ask Q: What's green and smells of pork? A: Kermits middle finger Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid---
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 1226	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:54:00 - [19] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Gogela wrote: Posting because I like frogs and oppose them being boiled. Also: Frog joke. Q: What did Kermit the Frog say when Jim Henson died? A: Nothing. Gogela you're slacking, you missed the opportunity to ask Q: What's green and smells of pork? A: Kermits middle finger You win Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦ GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 915	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:55:00 - [20] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Touval Lysander wrote: James 315 wrote: @ OP I agree! Agree with what? You bypass aggression mechanics and Concord anyway Pray do explain how that works. Did they make bumping red flashy while I was asleep? Oh, that? You're just lucky it doesn't do any damage. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem

Touval Lysander Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 261	Posted - 2012.10.08 21:57:00 - [21] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: However if they go too far with the idjit proofing they risk alienating their current players, and the current players are the ones that have created Eves reputation as the pinnacle of what a game can be. TL;DR new players are good, losing old players is not. Are you seriously suggesting that we need the ability to grief new guys simply because they make a mistake (which is what the "switch" is for) as a reason to keep Eve "real" for the old guys? Most armies in the world would probably prefer their soldiers to have the ability to walk before they give them a gun. When the new guy "turns the switch on" (as it were), he'll know when and more importantly, he'll know why. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
Nanatoa School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 14	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:01:00 - [22] - Quote Excellent analysis. CCP is turning the sandbox into a themepark with only a few rides, killing emergent gameplay. It is never too late to turn from the errors of your ways: He who repents of his sins is almost innocent. MinerBumping.com
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1223	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:02:00 - [23] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: So the Empire miners will be just cheery? Cool story. Right, no resources in empire now. And how about insane market tax there as well unless its racial goods.
Two step Aperture Harmonics K162 2219	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:07:00 - [24] - Quote I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Jonah Gravenstein Mahatma Cote Temporal Research 1567	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:10:00 - [25] - Quote Touval Lysander wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: However if they go too far with the idjit proofing they risk alienating their current players, and the current players are the ones that have created Eves reputation as the pinnacle of what a game can be. TL;DR new players are good, losing old players is not. Are you seriously suggesting that we need the ability to grief new guys simply because they make a mistake (which is what the "switch" is for) as a reason to keep Eve "real" for the old guys? Most armies in the world would probably prefer their soldiers to have the ability to walk before they give them a gun. When the new guy "turns the switch on" (as it were), he'll know when and more importantly, he'll know why. That's not what I'm suggesting at all, the new idiot switch provides a lot more information to the new player which is good in my book. It will help them immensely and hopefully encourage them to stay. I'm all for ganking idiots but not by means of convoluted mechanics such as people dropping cans marked free stuff outside noob stations and then ganking those who take from them because they don't know any better, hopefully the new idiot switch will prevent this kind of thing happening. What I am saying is that if CCP go too far with idiot proofing the game they risk alienating the players that have made Eve what it is today, the idiot switch is just the beginning, if they can keep things at about that level they will be fine, if they screw with the mechanics so much that idiots can't be made to pay for their transgressions and idiocy then they take that risk. New players will always be welcome in Eve, they are the most important players in the game, primarily because we were all noobs once and without noobs, Eve will die in the water. Noobs eventually become dedicated players and "percolate" through the universe, some go onto PvP, some PvE, all have the chance to do either. Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid---
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 1223	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:12:00 - [26] - Quote Two step wrote: I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc. No, no no. you don't want to thrust those off the meds into reality like that. That jolt could fry a clone. You need to bring them down with a dart of Sooth Sayer. Tag them and release them back into the matrix.
captain foivos State War Academy Caldari State 66	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:12:00 - [27] - Quote Two step wrote: I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc. I don't recall them releasing Tier 3 BCs with the message "Go forth and slaughter pubbies"
James 315 Experimental Fun Times Corp 2921	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:16:00 - [28] - Quote Two step wrote: I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc. How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½ The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 802	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:19:00 - [29] - Quote James 315 wrote: Two step wrote: I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc. How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. Coupled with the mining barge changes the destroyer buff and T3 battlecruisers are completely moot points. In fact destroyers are even less effective at ganking barges now than they were before the destroyer buff.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1557	Posted - 2012.10.08 22:32:00 - [30] - Quote Vimsy Vortis wrote: James 315 wrote: Two step wrote: I see Poetic is off his meds again. You seem to be forgetting all the stuff CCP did that helped suicide gankers, like Tier 3 BCs, the destroyer buffs, etc. How did that help suicide gankers? Tier 3 BCs and destroyers are cheaper than battleships and cruisers, but if you simultaneously remove insurance (which CCP did), the "help" goes away. Coupled with the mining barge changes the destroyer buff and T3 battlecruisers are completely moot points. In fact destroyers are even less effective at ganking barges now than they were before the destroyer buff. You guys aren't falling for the "we're totally not trying to dump you on the side of the road, the door is open for fresh air" argument, are you? But it's fine, we all know Two Step needs to help cover for CCP in this matter. We understand your position. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm



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