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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
habloo bloo
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:31:00 -
[481] - Quote
ECM itself is completely OP and broken, a single falcon can effectivley disable a small gang/Solo pvp'er. Ecm needs to be removed from the game completely, no other ewar can disable you in the way that ECM can. Taking it out of the game or at least nerfing it to run more in line with other forms of ewar (i.e effective but not completely disabling ) would be a ballsy but excellent move. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
840
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Posted - 2012.11.22 02:40:00 -
[482] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Oh look CCP made a new learning skill, that everyone has to train. Yeah a new learning skill, just like Signature Analysis is a learning skill, etc. I guess people are upset only cause they kinda got used to current skills - should the game had these eccm skills from the start, hardly anyone would have argued.
I like new skills - they give us something to train other than supercaps/industry. And let's face it, introduction of new skills is inevitable if CCP plans to retain its older playerbase. 14 |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
369
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:08:00 -
[483] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Oh look CCP made a new learning skill, that everyone has to train. Yeah a new learning skill, just like Signature Analysis is a learning skill, etc. I guess people are upset only cause they kinda got used to current skills - should the game had these eccm skills from the start, hardly anyone would have argued. I like new skills - they give us something to train other than supercaps/industry. And let's face it, introduction of new skills is inevitable if CCP plans to retain its older playerbase.
Not all of us have 100M Sp. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
840
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Posted - 2012.11.22 03:42:00 -
[484] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Oh look CCP made a new learning skill, that everyone has to train. Yeah a new learning skill, just like Signature Analysis is a learning skill, etc. I guess people are upset only cause they kinda got used to current skills - should the game had these eccm skills from the start, hardly anyone would have argued. I like new skills - they give us something to train other than supercaps/industry. And let's face it, introduction of new skills is inevitable if CCP plans to retain its older playerbase. Not all of us have 100M Sp. And I don't a have Titan - yet I don't ask CCP to remove titans from the game. My only concern is about making them balanced. And those saying new skills are imbalanced and complaining about someone having 5% better sensor strength are overacting. That's a marginal advantage by any standard! Now compare that with an ability to gain free killmails via portal. 14 |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
369
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Posted - 2012.11.22 05:02:00 -
[485] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Mortimer Civeri wrote:Oh look CCP made a new learning skill, that everyone has to train. Yeah a new learning skill, just like Signature Analysis is a learning skill, etc. I guess people are upset only cause they kinda got used to current skills - should the game had these eccm skills from the start, hardly anyone would have argued. I like new skills - they give us something to train other than supercaps/industry. And let's face it, introduction of new skills is inevitable if CCP plans to retain its older playerbase. Not all of us have 100M Sp. And I don't a have Titan - yet I don't ask CCP to remove titans from the game. My only concern is about making them balanced. And those saying new skills are imbalanced and complaining about someone having 5% better sensor strength are overacting. That's a marginal advantage by any standard! Now compare that with an ability to gain free killmails via portal.
Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2453
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Posted - 2012.11.22 11:35:00 -
[486] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1.
Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement.
We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level.
The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result.
So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce
426
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:02:00 -
[487] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1. Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement. We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level. The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result. So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level. Skill book was never seeded on Buckingham in 6-c. Will using the skill book be testable before it hits TQ? |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
539
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:13:00 -
[488] - Quote
These skills are like a reintroduction of the learning skills in my opinion. Add nothing and practically required to train. You can opt out of training them but only if you enjoy being permajammed always. So I'll have to train it on all my chars instead of training something fun. My verdict : A really odd and bad approach to nerfing ECM. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2456
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Posted - 2012.11.22 13:18:00 -
[489] - Quote
Salpun wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1. Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement. We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level. The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result. So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level. Skill book was never seeded on Buckingham in 6-c. Will using the skill book be testable before it hits TQ?
CCP Habakuk has put them up in 6-C now because he's awesome. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1046
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:01:00 -
[490] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1. Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement. We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level. The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result. So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level.
I still don't understand why we have the skillbook at all. Shouldn't you just raise the sensor strengths of all ships or lower the strength of ECM mods? There is a time commitment there, but I don't really see why there has to be. It just seems like a time sink unless you have some other things planned down the road using these skills? Modules, etc.
These are sincere questions... Where I am. |
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Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
438
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:09:00 -
[491] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:
I still don't understand why we have the skillbook at all. Shouldn't you just raise the sensor strengths of all ships or lower the strength of ECM mods? There is a time commitment there, but I don't really see why there has to be. It just seems like a time sink unless you have some other things planned down the road using these skills? Modules, etc.
These are sincere questions...
Sensor strength skills lead to greater variability of players' ships' sensor strengths, leading to less predictable ECM dynamics, relative to a uniform change. Increasing variability and decreasing predictability to this extent is a good thing. |
Demolishar
United Aggression
454
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:15:00 -
[492] - Quote
For god's sake put it back to 5% and make the rank 3. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
539
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Posted - 2012.11.22 14:56:00 -
[493] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Sensor strength skills lead to greater variability of players' ships' sensor strengths, leading to less predictable ECM dynamics, relative to a uniform change. Increasing variability and decreasing predictability to this extent is a good thing.
They could have done that by just nerfing ECM mods themselves. It is a bad mechanic to train something to make other people worse at what they do. It is a good mechanic to train something to make yourself better. This is just gimping all the new players as every non-moronic vet will train this immediately after dec 4 so there will not be any unpredictability at all. Don't hate on the new players. It is bad marketing. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
370
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:08:00 -
[494] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Oh, im not complaining they are imbalanced, I just think the skill point multiplier should be knocked down by 1. Well this is an excellent post to go right before my next announcement. We agree that the rank of the new Sensor Comp skills is a bit excessive and have decided to lower it down. However 5% per level at a rank 2 was a bit too powerful in this case so we're also reducing the effect to 4% per level. The end result is a better bang for your hour spent training, but a slightly lower potential end result. So the skills are now Rank 2 Int/Mem, providing 4% increased sensor strength in their chosen sensor type per level.
How about 2%/level as a rank one, and then an advanced version 3%/level as a rank 2? This gives you 1.1*1.15=1.26, very close to the original 25%, but allowing noobs to train something (and feel good about having it Ved), and allowing people with a billion skill points (and people who hate being jammed) to spend a bit more time on it. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
174
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:33:00 -
[495] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Add nothing and practically required to train. Don't you see an inconsistancy here ?
If it add nothing, it cannot be required to train. If it's required to train, it add very valuable thing.
BTW, if this skill were so required, people would fit ECCM more often, and the module would be like a second DCU. |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
247
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Posted - 2012.11.22 15:35:00 -
[496] - Quote
This is almost exactly like learning skills. You don't have to train it, but you are at a disadvantage if you don't, so you should train it. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
539
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:02:00 -
[497] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Louis deGuerre wrote:Add nothing and practically required to train. Don't you see an inconsistancy here ?
Louis deGuerre wrote:It is a bad mechanic to train something to make other people worse at what they do. It is a good mechanic to train something to make yourself better.
Nope
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
539
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:04:00 -
[498] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:How about 2%/level as a rank one, and then an advanced version 3%/level as a rank 2? This gives you 1.1*1.15=1.26, very close to the original 25%, but allowing noobs to train something (and feel good about having it Ved), and allowing people with a billion skill points (and people who hate being jammed) to spend a bit more time on it.
That's even worse ! Learning skills AND advanced learning skills ! Man, so much deja vu right now FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
370
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:07:00 -
[499] - Quote
Louis deGuerre wrote:Michael Harari wrote:How about 2%/level as a rank one, and then an advanced version 3%/level as a rank 2? This gives you 1.1*1.15=1.26, very close to the original 25%, but allowing noobs to train something (and feel good about having it Ved), and allowing people with a billion skill points (and people who hate being jammed) to spend a bit more time on it. That's even worse ! Learning skills AND advanced learning skills ! Man, so much deja vu right now
How is it worse? Its the exact same thing we have currently (rank 3 for 25% total)? |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
539
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:10:00 -
[500] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:How is it worse? Its the exact same thing we have currently (rank 3 for 25% total)?
I was joking. I was just thinking 'name them learning skills and be done with it already'
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
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Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
375
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:20:00 -
[501] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:Sensor strength skills lead to greater variability of players' ships' sensor strengths, leading to less predictable ECM dynamics, relative to a uniform change. Increasing variability and decreasing predictability to this extent is a good thing.
Not really. It'll just add more to the "mandatory PvP skills" list, which is already too long.
I mean, given how jamming works, do you think there will be serious PvPers out there who will NOT train that? The only people who wouldn't have it will be noobs. So all these skills will do is drive another wedge into an already wide hole between new players and the vets, further discouraging new players from joining the game.
I'm sorry, but this is learning skills all over again. Really not a smart decision. I'm sorry, I mean no offense to whoever came up with it, but this is NOT the way to go. Give it some more thought.
Further, if you're going to introduce skills to specifically counter ECM, something that modules already exist for, why stop there? Why not add skills to counter missiles, even though there's already a module that does that? Or skills that counter drones? Like a "Drone Defense Screen" that reduces drone damage taken by 5% per level? See how absurd that is? So why is it OK to do this with ECM, instead of dealing with ECM modules directly?
Silly, CCP. Just plain silly. Do it, if you feel you must, but it'll go down about as well as learning skills went. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
371
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Posted - 2012.11.22 16:58:00 -
[502] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Why not add skills to counter missiles, even though there's already a module that does that? .
You mean like "navigation" or "acceleration control"?
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2468
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:01:00 -
[503] - Quote
Mortimer Civeri wrote:This is almost exactly like learning skills. You don't have to train it, but you are at a disadvantage if you don't, so you should train it.
Your statement describes literally every skill in the game (except Tactical Shield Manipulation 5 and the old version of Afterburner 5).
In general we like people to have interesting options with their skill training and there are already skills that partially counter Damps and TDs.
We are planning to keep adding skills here and there from time to time, when we see interesting gaps to fill. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
371
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:05:00 -
[504] - Quote
So why is the "5%" nerf to tracking disruptors a different kind of "5%" from every other "5%" change you are making? |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2468
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:07:00 -
[505] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:So why is the "5%" nerf to tracking disruptors a different kind of "5%" from every other "5%" change you are making?
Edit: Your statement also applies sometimes to afterburner V
Because it seemed clearer that way, I may have been wrong about that but I think most people get what's going on.
Good point about the afterburner skill, although take a look at it on Buckingham you'll be pleasantly surprised. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
371
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:09:00 -
[506] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good point about the afterburner skill, although take a look at it on Buckingham you'll be pleasantly surprised.
You cant trick me into logging in that easily. |
Sparkus Volundar
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
21
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:19:00 -
[507] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good point about the afterburner skill, although take a look at it on Buckingham you'll be pleasantly surprised.
You cant trick me into logging in that easily.
lol
Skill is changing to offer -5% to Afterburner Duration per level and -10% Activcation Cost per level.
Dear CCP Fozzie,
In relation to the above Afterburner skill change, will the Fuel Conservation skill remain unchanged (leading to Afterburners having the same Cap use as now)?
Regards, Sparks
Applied Creations is recruiting. Mystic Volundar says, "It could be you! " |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
2468
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:21:00 -
[508] - Quote
Sparkus Volundar wrote:Michael Harari wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good point about the afterburner skill, although take a look at it on Buckingham you'll be pleasantly surprised.
You cant trick me into logging in that easily. lol Skill is changing to offer -5% to Afterburner Duration per level and -10% Activcation Cost per level. Dear CCP Fozzie, In relation to the above Afterburner skill change, will the Fuel Conservation skill remain unchanged (leading to Afterburners having the same Cap use as now)? Regards, Sparks
Yeah we're not touching Fuel Conservation atm. Game Designer | Team Game of Drones https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie |
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
371
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:23:00 -
[509] - Quote
The afterburner change is super awesome |
Sparkus Volundar
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
21
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Posted - 2012.11.22 17:33:00 -
[510] - Quote
It is indeed
Thanks for the reply, Fozzie. Applied Creations is recruiting. Mystic Volundar says, "It could be you! " |
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