Remove the tier rewards from FW missions. Right now you can get a ******** amount of LP by doing missions while not affecting warzone control at all. So you get more LP with less risk. Removing the tier system for missions benefit those who fight in plexs and bust bunkers and will rise the prices of the current crashed and flooded FW market, letting the PVP'ers earn more.

You still shouldn't be able to make 300k+ LP an hour, any way you look at it.

Also missions have always been far more profitable than plexing, it seems odd that this is brought up now, not 6 months ago.

>>>In recognition of your successful completion of the mission 'Dead Men Tell No Tales' to aid the cause of our militia, Federal Defense Union grants you 80,694 loyalty points.

control.

I agree mission should be removed from FW

Hey , do not cry about FW missions.

Those are just what players wanted. On original FW version no one did those missions, but then comes militia CSM candidates who wanted good income for FW players to make isk for pvp, and we sure made isk after several boosts.

Sad thing is that no one has done any pvp after that.

No one did missions in pre-Inferno? What are you smoking?

he is referring to "old times" when missions gave crappy lp and actual conversion ratio in lp store was pretty bad. Then came Gallente sponsored Ankh CSM and that's pretty much the moment FW started going wrong.

The LP multiplier for missions is rubbish. And yes, making 310k LP/hour for an activity that doesn't help the occupancy war is not right.

This is too much LP. It has had an negative impact on the Gallente FW store as well. Practically everything has tanked.

Wow. It's almost like the market is regulating the amount people earn based on the availability of LP.

You mean the moment that everyone and their mother joined Cal Mil to farm missions and then used the inflated numbers that the change brought to champion more changes because of the so called "imbalance" of "players" on the caldari side.


Sounds a lot like the amarr for the last few months doesn't it.

I don't know about other amarr. But this amarr always prefered economic balance and the good fights it brings, over trillions of isk making the war lopsided.

We could have had everything pvp, money to pvp, and balance. But CCP started out by just throwing tons of money at their new feature before making mechanics changes to increase the balance and pvp. This brought some exta pvp due to the sheer number of people farming isk in the same place. But now that the isk is drying up and most of the noobs are leaving we just have an unbalanced war with a bunch of other changes casual pvpers hate. Null style station lock outs, and soon we will have to spam the dscan button like the oc wh dwellers everytime we run a plex in a busy system.

Lets face it, all our hopes that ccp would turn fw plexing into this awesome crazy pvp mechanic were completely misguided. Instead of making plexing a pvp mechanic they turned it into a more annoying form of pve.

Ok accepting your first few points here, but this is just silly, what if 310k LP is only worth 10m? do you still have a problem with it then? There seems to be an attitude of 'OMG big number, that must be wrong' Even though mission runners are now earning a small fraction of what was possible pre-patch.

While I don't blame frogs or any particular faction it is true that ccp just threw isk at fw as opposed to changing the actual plex dmechanic to make it less pve and more pvp.

Some frogs like chatgris warned against that approach.

Ok accepting your first few points here, but this is just silly, what if 310k LP is only worth 10m? do you still have a problem with it then?

*sigh* please log in and play the game.

Yes - because mission running is a purely pve activity, no way for the opposing side to fail your mission (you can reject the one pickup missions that pays crap), and it makes far far more LP than the pvp activities (plexing).

I did. Last time I roamed for about an hour in a merlin. I was willing to fight some afs, any destroyers and most navy frigates and of course other t1 frigates. No fights.

You must be the worst solo roamer in the history of Eve. Seriously.

Of course frogs want nerf to mission LP so we cannot use our alts to take advantage of their CCP sponsored high-tier and engage in asymmetrical warfare by dumping down the value of their LP.

How many decent fights are you getting per 2 hours of a solo roam?
Edit: and were you getting more than 3-7 decent fights per 2 hours right after inferno?

I can get into a fight within 10 minutes of undocking.

Of course frogs want nerf to mission LP so we cannot use our alts to take advantage of their CCP sponsored high-tier and engage in asymmetrical warfare by dumping down the value of their LP.

You are claiming you can get a decent solo fight within 10 minutes of signing on?

Yes, but that's because I choose to engage people even if they have an initial advantage, even if it's 1 vs multiple targets. But YMMV. Since comets are cheap - even though I've done this with comets before Inferno, during inferno, and now after this latest patch, so inb4 you're "You're at Tier 4 so you can afford to have fun" whine post.

I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.

Fair enough, I always understood it as LP from kills and plexing where just to help you along with the intention of missions being an income source.

I still maintain it would be better if none of it gave LP and missions were the only income source, funnily enough that was when plexing gave the best fights. At least then you could ignore people who were farming and you knew when someone was plexing they wanted a fight, now the two are far too blurred.

It pretty much boils down to more people in pvp ships more of the time means more pvp.

I don't have a problem engaging versus multiple targets either. But I only occassionally suicide my ships.

XG your claim that you find decent solo pvp fights every 10 minutes just demonstrates how removed from reality your view is.

I'm the one with over 300 kills and losses each month - not you.

Use your alt to plex then you ninny. The reason is to stabilize FW item prices. Or how about you use your main, AND TAKE SOME SYSTEMS!!!!! Gasp!!!!

Why the f.ck I should do what you want when the option is to do what I want? And why would I engage in pointless activity where CCP already stacked the deck for your benefit like they have done for years now. Most likely you would whine for another change if for some reason you get permanently kicked from your Tier 4 and CCP would only be too happy to oblige.

Of course that is the ideal, I just don't think it is really viable. Hence I'm happy to accept the next best option where at least farming doesn't have a negative impact on PVP.

Except that the way the plex mechanic worked at the start of Inferno was the same mechanic that was around for years. All they did was added LP for completing them. How people thought that this was going to drive more PvP is beyond me.

It's beyond Cearain too. Unfortunately for you both, PVP has picked up quite a bit since they implemented the LP for plexes policy. Check the killboards. Do you want to know why? People are farming plexes in pvp ships - more people are out in space and available for fights when they occur. (They are not out of theater or in pve ships trying to make isk)

Well that's a bunch of QQ'ing right there. You're only permently kicked because YOU gave up.

No one did missions in pre-Inferno? What are you smoking?

Your killboard definitely shows you have allot more time to play computer games than I do. But it doesn't show you can get a decent solo fight every 10 minutes.

Well that's a bunch of QQ'ing right there. You're only permently kicked because YOU gave up. You don't see Happy Ending quitting, no, you see them taking systems and chasing out plexers. I've stayed in Gal Mil almost the whole time, even when we were getting stomped by the initial alt army and Ive never quit like you guys have. Guess its just a character thing.

It's beyond Cearain too. Unfortunately for you both, PVP has picked up quite a bit since they implemented the LP for plexes policy. Check the killboards. Do you want to know why? People are farming plexes in pvp ships - more people are out in space and available for fights when they occur. (They are not out of theater or in pve ships trying to make isk)

Gallente is only who is taking systems.

You cannot make other people do what you want them to.

Sure you can, but that is something you do not seem to know how to do.

vaaralen, mushikegi and soon to be korasen and okagaiken would like a word with you.

We have lost system that we didnt defend and/or no one lived there. Caldari have lost systems that no one defended or very few/no one lived there.

It is perfectly reasonable that one guy should not be able to defend a system with a few alts. The new system expresses that reason and is why it was a very large step in the right direction.

While i have no doubt that if these changes came in when expected and caldari were in our position, that you would be here explaining how fair the new system really is. So i have very little sympathy.

The little sympathy i have just makes me think that defensive plexing is a little op and perhaps should drop from 75%lp to 50%, but tbh we are still losing systems. Fact is that to take a system it now needs a concentrated PVP effort, you clearly became too accustomed to systems being farmed by alts and going vulnerable within 3 days with no effort. Thankfully those days are gone.

Another pearl of wisdom from some guy crying on the forums.

no one is going to play this new FW after they really understand what it this all about. New rats may little help the situation but i doubt it is not enough.

Even if caldari has tier 2 income is less than from highsec lvl4 missions with current rats so no wonder people do not want to plex.

Maybe you will learn on some day that whole EVE is about manipulation others minds to get what you want.

There there bm, the myan calander doesnt really predict the end of the world,

FW still lack possibility to force enemy to fight, ...

it predicts the end of the Caldari militia! I get it now.

What is this **** about solo pvp? I think you are mistaking faction war for something else. You cannot make other people do what you want them to.

...

XG claims he gets decent solo pvp fights about every 10 minutes. In defense of this claim he refers to his number of kills. So I look at his killboard, and see that he clearly is not able to do what he claims.

When did I ever tell anyone to do what I want them to do? If you actually read the thread you will see it XG who is constantly trying to tell me what to do including playing more fw despite it being broken.

Why solo pvp? Because statistically that is the best way to get a decent fight the quickest.

Again, he said 10 min from undocking. Not every 10min. And trust me, he does pull it off. He'll log in for 30m on his lunch break from work and somehow net 2+ kills. Then silently logs back off.

This is an outright "alternate reality". A better measure is how quickly you can get into any decent fight - whether it is solo, small gang, or fleet. Why would you limit yourself to solo fights unless you were trying to emphasize a fictional problem to meet your warped view of FW?

You cut off the part of my post that answers your question. Why don't you read what I wrote?
As you increase your gang above the size of say a BC you are going to find decent pvp fights (where either side has a substantial chance of holding the field) less frequently. Its a matter of mathematics.

Yes, it is a matter of mathematics. By excluding all but one category of pvp you can attempt to make a point that pvp is nearly impossible to get if you are a FW pilot. The fact is that being in good intel channels with active players and a willingness to engage are all that are needed to get fights quickly.

X gals method of pvp is "fly a kiting ship, gank noobies. If you meet someone who wont die to usual link boosted kiting comet, run away from local and come back with 10 guys and demand a fight."

After that he runs to forums to boast how awesome he is.

You guys all funny boasting all this drama around :) Anyways Caldari Militia wont-¦t ever die as long as we-¦re around so keep on bringing good fights Galls :)

X gals method of pvp is "fly a kiting ship, gank noobies. If you meet someone who wont die to usual link boosted kiting comet, run away from local and come back with 10 guys and demand a fight."

http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15192946

Less than two minutes from undocking. Logged into Deven, had to make one jump into Fliet and then warp to minor plex. But it wasn't a good fight. I had my "loki-boosted, snake-set" Comet, warped into him at zero (I know, certain death right? But you know what they say - fortune favors the bold and all that) and had to burn away before getting scrammed.

Carry on.

Don't mission myself. But I think they are fine, if a faction takes over an entire Warzone and decimate their enemy it ensures they can consistently still make LP.

Thanks for sharing, but why should we care?

Direct rebuttal to your argument perhaps? Carry on.

Direct rebuttal to your argument perhaps? Carry on.

Another < 10 minute kill Yesterday as well. Log on, comms says "Celestis and griffins in Heyd", UNDOCK (the first key to getting fights quickly btw), warp to plex and engage Celestis, thought griffins were going to come but they didn't. Keres shows up late to *****. Technically not a 1v1, but a good fight filled with potential risk. Mutnin would be proud, but he doesn't play anymore either.

It is just so incredibly difficult to get fights in FW. I mean, I've been wasting like two minutes of my life setting up these fights! Why can't we get fights before we undock from station??!!! rageragerage!!!!!

I took the X G challenge and took a break from WoT - in under 2 hours I got 10 kills, 8 of those were solo (one has a few people on the kill that ninja'd well before I was on grid), the other two had a friend in a thrasher with me. All just me in the ol trusty thrasher, no boosts.

All fights except one were in FW plexes. I only had to roam in a 2 jump radius of my home system.

Seems like FW is alive and kicking to me.

I took the X G challenge and took a break from WoT - in under 2 hours I got 10 kills, 8 of those were solo (one has a few people on the kill that ninja'd well before I was on grid), the other two had a friend in a thrasher with me. All just me in the ol trusty thrasher, no boosts.

All fights except one were in FW plexes. I only had to roam in a 2 jump radius of my home system.

Seems like FW is alive and kicking to me.

...As a complete sidenote > Kam/kourm/Auga was BUZZING last night. I get the feeling activity is ramping up again pre-patch.....

I don't think its that much of an exaggeration Cearain. I get about the same amount of fights as XG, id say i would average 2/3 per hour as a minimum or i'll log off/go do something else for a bit.

- I have limited playtime, I do use boosts, and i am aggressive in the fights i go in for. Ill fight solo/pair, small gang or even bloob depending on what targets are available.

- i have access to 6-8 active intel channels i use with at least 4 of these bringing good quality intel, failing that i fly the loop Arzad > Sahtogas > Kam > Dal > Amamake > Arzad which rarely lets me down.

- Minnies have an excellent relationship between corps/alliances. Mostly, we share one TS server and the interaction between corps on that is brilliant. Ill often get someone jump into our channel to report activity or call for help etc or vice versa. If nothings going on in one channel ill jump in with some of the other corps or even just general militia.


I dont know the Amarr set up at all > but i get the impression (feel free to correct me) that the Amarr corps dont really work together as well as the Minnies (including comms and intel sharing). Maybe someone like Zarnak or Saly could comment having seen both sides of the coin.

I'm not saying that everything XG is saying is true, but you may be losing out on some fights as he says due to lack of intel/faction cohesion.

In my experience, i agree with Chatgris and XG, i really dont think its that bad at the minute. (IMHO).



As a complete sidenote > Kam/kourm/Auga was BUZZING last night. I get the feeling activity is ramping up again pre-patch.....

...comes here posting about how he got a kill in 2 seconds but then you see it takes another 2 hours for the next kill(or loss). Then another 2 hours for the next. XGs posts are neither statistically significant or objective.

If people could get decent fights then the killboards should show that again and again. Playing eve for 2 hours straigt is not that unusual.

But fair enough, I will try some more roams. Perhaps the last three roams I did were unusually dry. I admit they were not statistically significant either.

Just so you know, XG doesn't stay on for extended periods of time. Normally he'll log on in space somewhere fly round for 30 min then log off. Then get back on an hour or two later. Your KB stalking shows the result.

I don't think its that much of an exaggeration Cearain. I get about the same amount of fights as XG, id say i would average 2/3 decent/enjoyable fights per hour as a minimum or i'll log off/go do something else for a bit.

Nothing you say will convince him that's he's wrong. He can't get fights and so he assumes that nobody can get them. I stated I can get fights (not kills) within 10 minutes of logging on and he said "No way". Several case studies over the last two days shows otherwise, but they are then dismissed as a "fluke". Whatever. Carry on. chatgris showed him that he can get lots of fights over a two hour period yesterday, but "that is not statsitically significant".

So, what'cha gonna do? Whatever.

The real audience in these posts is everybody else. You'll never convince Cearain he's wrong, but we do have a chance at convincing the readers that he is wrong. FW (and low sec) is great for casual pvp. If you want to null bear it up and pay your 0.0 overlords rent, go ahead. If you want pvp, come to FW low sec.

Deleted a post with multiple violations and one that was a reply to it.

Thats really excellent. I think I did something close to that once or twice but its excedingly rare. That is definitely not happening in the amarr minmatar front. How many different fights was it?

BTW its not really XG challenge. He doesn't try to see how many fights he can get in 2 hours. He just gets a single kill and comes running to the forums to post it and says "see there is lots of pvp"

There is an actual recording where CCP soundwave mocks Caldari militia during alliance tournament and it's considered "rumor mongering".

Awesome sauce. Perhaps next you can prove to us that black is white and vice versa?

This would be a great listen. Link?

Ahhhh man, i wanna see the ''multiple forum violations''.....

It sounds like someone got two personal attacks within 20 minutes of logging onto the forums, and that is definitely statistically significant.

Cearain > Give me a shout if your in the Huola/Kourm area, i'm not a big fan of arranged PvP but a couple of 1v1's would be good fun (no boosts i promise!) o7

My sincere aplogies to Cearain. I doubted that you actually logged into the game, but your killboard says otherwise.
Kills in October and November

No wonder you're complaining so much. Come to Fliet for the next couple of days. The pirates here are very active and you can get fights within 10 minutes of logging on. Almost guaranteed. And there are plenty of FDU guys who will try to kill you as well.

I will do that. I am not that familiar with the area. So I will need to find a system close to the action I can put some ships in. Preferably one that is fw neutral so I can access them later if I want. High sec is fine I'm only -3.

Actee is high sec and it is adjacent for Fliet (a system which is the focus of a lot of plexing right now) and Heyd (one of the main gallente home systems: Also Nisuwa and Nennamaila are home systems for gallente).

I get most of my pew pew up around the Kedama area. If you are interested in that area, Rakapas is a very good system to base out of (the most powerful caldari alliance bases out of there). It has easy access to Nennamaila, Nisuwa AND Heyd.

I highly recommend Rakapas for your base of operations - it is a little bit out from Fliet (but only 5 jumps) but a lot of caldari base there, and it's central to the main gallente hubs.

i recommend Villore.