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Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:13:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim Steele on 24/06/2005 18:16:04 Just been on the test server, and managed to grab some screenies for you to drool over (of the skills needed etc). Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage Couldnt get a picture of the actual ship since it was blown up fairly quickly, if anyone else has some let me know.. Death to the Galante
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:15:00 - [2] Another perception based skill, awesome. ________________________________________________________
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:19:00 - [3] Freighters are tech 1, so ya. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Meridius More perception based skills, awesome. yeah sadly im gimped with high memory, darn how much does that suck, i dont even like mining. Death to the Galante
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:22:00 - [5] wtf!!!! tech 1 ship but needs industrial lvl 5 thats just urinated on my plans for the next 25 days then (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:24:00 - [6] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Freighters are tech 1, so ya. Doesn't mean it's not broke. Perception already has more SP in it then all the other attributes combined, adding 4 more 5x and 10x skills is just making things worse. A lot worse ________________________________________________________
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:25:00 - [7] They also have zero fittings but i wouldnt read to much into the stats to be honest, at least until they hit sisi. Death to the Galante
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:26:00 - [8] i hope your right, cos that armour shield ratio on a caldari ship looks more than a little borked, it would tank a gank-a-geddon, what, 25 secs to rub it out max? so much for being surviable etc... (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:33:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim Steele They also have zero fittings but i wouldnt read to much into the stats to be honest, at least until they hit sisi. Afaik i heard they wont have any med or low slots [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:33:00 - [10] Originally by: babylonstew i hope your right, cos that armour shield ratio on a caldari ship looks more than a little borked, it would tank a gank-a-geddon, what, 25 secs to rub it out max? so much for being surviable etc... 88 seconds with no resistances calculated in so it would probably take a good 2-3 minutes of pounding from an 8 sink 1200DPS gankgeddon. Anyway, it's not meant to tank stuff and it uses a jumpdrive so... ________________________________________________________

keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: babylonstew i hope your right, cos that armour shield ratio on a caldari ship looks more than a little borked, it would tank a gank-a-geddon, what, 25 secs to rub it out max? so much for being surviable etc... 88 seconds with no resistances calculated in so it would probably take a good 2-3 minutes of pounding from an 8 sink 1200DPS gankgeddon. Anyway, it's not meant to tank stuff and it uses a jumpdrive so... ner, freighters dont use jumpdriver iirc ------------- Originally by: Gnauton It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: babylonstew i hope your right, cos that armour shield ratio on a caldari ship looks more than a little borked, it would tank a gank-a-geddon, what, 25 secs to rub it out max? so much for being surviable etc... 88 seconds with no resistances calculated in so it would probably take a good 2-3 minutes of pounding from an 8 sink 1200DPS gankgeddon. Anyway, it's not meant to tank stuff and it uses a jumpdrive so... ok, well, according to my maths, it takes 192 secs from leaving warp to hitting jump range at a gate, also, they dont use jump drives, so i think they are not gonna last too long runing into/out of 0.0 (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:47:00 - [13] Originally by: babylonstew [ ok, well, according to my maths, it takes 192 secs from leaving warp to hitting jump range at a gate, also, they dont use jump drives, so i think they are not gonna last too long runing into/out of 0.0 Instas and maybe some support? You expect to solo haul 1,000,000m3 of cargo No ________________________________________________________
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:48:00 - [14] Originally by: babylonstew ok, well, according to my maths, it takes 192 secs from leaving warp to hitting jump range at a gate, also, they dont use jump drives, so i think they are not gonna last too long runing into/out of 0.0 They might if they are escorted with a dred Death to the Galante
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:53:00 - [15] I assume you only need spaceship command at lvl 5 for advanced spaceship command? _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:56:00 - [16] i knew someone would mention instas, but i recall they are being nerfed???, and besides, support yes i agree, i wouldnt attempt to move 1mil m3 solo in 0.0 But my point was originally that the stats of the caldari one are kinda off, 4.8k shields but 16k armour???, that to me sounds a little off wouldnt you agree??? (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Pottsey	Posted - 2005.06.24 18:57:00 - [17] Wow if that has 85k structure I wonder how much the Gallente ship has. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.24 19:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Pottsey I assume you only need spaceship command at lvl 5 for advanced spaceship command? Well, it might have more Can someone info the skill reqs for advanced spaceship command? ________________________________________________________
KingsGambit	Posted - 2005.06.24 19:29:00 - [19] From the look of that screenie, Adv. Spaceship Command just needs it's Rank 1 counterpart at lvl 1. But as it's Rank 10 anyway, Lvl 3 Adv. Command will prob take about the same time as Space Command 5! The shields did seem quite low, but with ~5.5k shields and ~19k armour (assuming Shield Management/Hull Upgrades 4), that's just > 25k of mildly resistant hit points, and ~42k unresisted hull (assuming Mechanic 4). That would absorb a phenomenal amount of punishment though hopefully there'll be at least one or two mid slots for repairs, as they can't dock to use station services (and with that many HPs I think repairing them, after buying them would be very expensive too!). My lord, how long would it take to repair 35k hull with a single Medium Hull Repairer!!? And as they use jump drives, as with all the behemoth sized ships will, they shouldn't really be caught up in any gate camp shennanigans to put them at too great a risk. Those screens probably aren't final, they must have some sort of fitting potential. But with no propulsion modules, it's going to be really, really, really, really slow! Still that's the price to pay for 1m m^3 of cargo! Depending on how jump drives work, they'll make lvl 4 courier missions a breeze! (Though spending the isk to buy one just for help with missions might not make the best financial sense). ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
Rawne Karrde	Posted - 2005.06.24 19:35:00 - [20] Sorry to say this dude but your a bit off on that. Go read the dev blog about them once again. 1. they are station to station ships. So um yeah they can dock etc.. 2. they will not use jumpdrives, ovuer has also clarified this in the devblogs as well.

Plekto	Posted - 2005.06.24 20:51:00 - [21] eek. 50 top speed? That thing's meat just getting in and out of gates and stations. Then it explodes and all the cargo litters the place. Not like anything other than a frieghter can even pick up that packaged BS. And 1,000,000 units of Veld? It'd take several hours to haul it away working in shifts.
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.06.24 21:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:13:23 Originally by: Plekto eek. 50 top speed? That thing's meat just getting in and out of gates and stations. Then it explodes and all the cargo litters the place. Not like anything other than a frieghter can even pick up that packaged BS. And 1,000,000 units of Veld? It'd take several hours to haul it away working in shifts. Actually it would be 10million units of Veld :flashfact: Which would be enough for 30,030 refines and at perfect refine would yield you 30,030,000.00 units of Trit or about enought trit to produce 4 Megathrons. Anyone want to calculate how long it would take to mine 10 million units of veld
James Hargreaves	Posted - 2005.06.24 21:12:00 - [23] I don't like these ships at all. They should have had varity just like the current indies. Give some a big base cargo and few low slots, others small base cargo and more low slots. But if you don't want them to fit warp core stabs just give them smaller amount of CPU or whatever. But it seems stupid to not let you fit these just like any other ship. They are probably set in stone now, but it would have been a lot better if they would have given them mid and low slots and just gimped the grid so they can't fit large mods or shield boosters or armor reppers or whatever.
James Hargreaves	Posted - 2005.06.24 21:17:00 - [24] Originally by: KingsGambit That would absorb a phenomenal amount of punishment though hopefully there'll be at least one or two mid slots for repairs, as they can't dock to use station services And as they use jump drives, as with all the behemoth sized ships will, Why do people have so many wrong preconceived notions about these? They CAN and will dock at stations. They CAN NOT pick up or jettison cargo in space. They DO NOT use jump drives. And according to everything we have seen so far they have no fitting at all.
James Hargreaves	Posted - 2005.06.24 21:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:13:23 Originally by: Plekto eek. 50 top speed? That thing's meat just getting in and out of gates and stations. Then it explodes and all the cargo litters the place. Not like anything other than a frieghter can even pick up that packaged BS. And 1,000,000 units of Veld? It'd take several hours to haul it away working in shifts. Actually it would be 10million units of Veld :flashfact: Which would be enough for 30,030 refines and at perfect refine would yield you 30,030,000.00 units of Trit or about enought trit to produce 4 Megathrons. Anyone want to calculate how long it would take to mine 10 million units of veld Umm I think 9.8 hours with a med barge with mining V and Astrogeology V.
Rafe Waddo	Posted - 2005.06.24 21:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:13:23 Originally by: Plekto eek. 50 top speed? That thing's meat just getting in and out of gates and stations. Then it explodes and all the cargo litters the place. Not like anything other than a frieghter can even pick up that packaged BS. And 1,000,000 units of Veld? It'd take several hours to haul it away working in shifts. Actually it would be 10million units of Veld :flashfact: Which would be enough for 30,030 refines and at perfect refine would yield you 30,030,000.00 units of Trit or about enought trit to produce 4 Megathrons. Anyone want to calculate how long it would take to mine 10 million units of veld 10.000.000 units veldspar = 1.000.000 m¦. An Apoc w/ Miner IIs mines 45000 m¦/hour, so that means mining 10 mill veld will take you 22 hours, 13 minutes and 12 seconds. A Covetor w/ Tech I stripminers does 58218.6 m¦/hour, so it would only take you 17 hours, 10 minutes and 33 seconds.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.24 22:57:00 - [27] Originally by: James Hargreaves They are probably set in stone now, but it would have been a lot better if they would have given them mid and low slots and just gimped the grid so they can't fit large mods or shield boosters or armor reppers or whatever. I would have liked the ability to fit a MWD, but im not going to cry about it. Ill just have to make sure a dread jumps in ahead of me. Death to the Galante
Andarias	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:30:00 - [28] This can't be right. The Dev logs say 100,000m3 of cargo space. o_O WTF how can a freighter hold another packaged freighter in it's cargohold?
FalloutBoy	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:30:00 - [29] damn I thought these were only going to be 100,000capacity. 1,000,000 rocks! Also is it true that pakaged ships are much smaller now in the test server? I heard something like 2,500 m3 for frigs 10,000 for cruisers and 100,000 for BS? which would be sweat also being able to load up 10 BS into a ship.
Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:33:00 - [30] So can these things fit mining lasers?

Christopher Scott	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:35:00 - [31] Also, depending on how they rework gang aqnd leadership mechanics, you might be able to give these ships a huge passive velocity bonus for having a gang escort you.
Linavin	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:35:00 - [32] I know this dosen't do anything at the moment but...Why does Caldari freighter have plasma propulsion?
Bleakheart	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Christopher Scott So can these things fit mining lasers? Probably not, since you won't be able to take these babies to belts anyway.
Pesht	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:55:00 - [34] Anyone else notice that it said freighter's packaged are 1,000,000m3? So that if the freighters cargo hold is actually 1 mil m3, you can apparently fit a freighter inside a freighter....
Baron Xad	Posted - 2005.06.25 00:57:00 - [35] Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:13:23 Originally by: Plekto eek. 50 top speed? That thing's meat just getting in and out of gates and stations. Then it explodes and all the cargo litters the place. Not like anything other than a frieghter can even pick up that packaged BS. And 1,000,000 units of Veld? It'd take several hours to haul it away working in shifts. Actually it would be 10million units of Veld :flashfact: Which would be enough for 30,030 refines and at perfect refine would yield you 30,030,000.00 units of Trit or about enought trit to produce 4 Megathrons. Anyone want to calculate how long it would take to mine 10 million units of veld Now if you compressed all the Trit into Passive Targetters, you could get (approximately) 2 BILLION () pieces of Trit into a freighter if it has 1 million cargo. I think that'd be about right anyway. Of course, manufacturing 200000 passive targetters would um... suck. (Fear my impracticality) Pants have pockets -> Pockets hold wallets -> Wallets hold money -> Money is the root of all evil -> Ergo, pants are the root of all evil.
keepiru	Posted - 2005.06.25 02:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Bleakheart Originally by: Christopher Scott So can these things fit mining lasers? Probably not, since you won't be able to take these babies to belts anyway. nothing stopping you from taking them to belts. they just cant open cans. ------------- Originally by: Gnauton It was purely accidental. We really don't have a sense of humour at all.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.06.25 02:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Andarias This can't be right. The Dev logs say 100,000m3 of cargo space. o_O WTF how can a freighter hold another packaged freighter in it's cargohold? Think of packaged as "stripped down to components and packed into boxes" rather than "covered in wrapping paper and tied up with a bow" or "put inside a box with fancy graphics on it to try to get it to sell more" and hopefully it becomes clear :) . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Krulla	Posted - 2005.06.25 03:13:00 - [38] The guy who names the new ships should get a medal of some sort. They all fit so perfectly..
Kasei	Posted - 2005.06.25 03:36:00 - [39] Anyone know where the pictures that were released in March or April are? I'm specifically looking for the Minmatar shot. It used to be here, but as you can see that returns a 404. (It took me a loooong time to find that thread, its on more than 300 pages ago.)
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.25 06:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Kasei Anyone know where the pictures that were released in March or April are? I'm specifically looking for the Minmatar shot. It used to be here, but as you can see that returns a 404. (It took me a loooong time to find that thread, its on more than 300 pages ago.) you mean the devblog about freighters right? Linkage Death to the Galante

Kasei	Posted - 2005.06.25 08:31:00 - [41] Yes! Thanks! I went back through the dev blog all the way to January and couldn't find it, I don't know how I missed it. qatlho'!
Anjerrai Meloanis	Posted - 2005.06.25 11:25:00 - [42] Originally by: Pesht Anyone else notice that it said freighter's packaged are 1,000,000m3? So that if the freighters cargo hold is actually 1 mil m3, you can apparently fit a freighter inside a freighter.... well as theyre only cargo space and not much ship i can see how thsi would work. packaged they would be a hellova lot smaller dont you think? uh.
sokken	Posted - 2005.06.25 12:15:00 - [43] no med slot? I would hate to get the repairbill after escaping with 5% structure -
Malacore	Posted - 2005.06.25 13:55:00 - [44] How big are packed battleships going to be then?
Vivus Mors	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:22:00 - [45] iirc 50,000m3 each per battleship (I don't think they differentiate between class one and class 2 BS's for that packed size) ------------------------------------------------- For the price of one can of Quafe cola a day, you can adopt an Ewok... Please... think of the Ewoks...
Selim	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:24:00 - [46] Originally by: sokken no med slot? I would hate to get the repairbill after escaping with 5% structure Mahaha. Thats great, finally getting damaged is a loss.
Der Ewige	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Selim Originally by: sokken no med slot? I would hate to get the repairbill after escaping with 5% structure Mahaha. Thats great, finally getting damaged is a loss. That is probably the reason why the caldarie ship hase more armor than shild like all the other Frighters. Giving the Caldarie Freighter 16k shield and 5k armor would give it a huge advantage, because shield repairs it selfe and won't cost you anything, while you would have to use remote armor repairs or pay a larg bill for the armor.
Andarias	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Vivus Mors iirc 50,000m3 each per battleship (I don't think they differentiate between class one and class 2 BS's for that packed size) Aramgeddon is 1.1 million m3 packaged Apocalypse is 1.2
Andarias	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:46:00 - [49] With the advent of this new unrepairable ship, can we PLEASE get remote hull repair modules?
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:47:00 - [50] Originally by: Andarias Originally by: Vivus Mors iirc 50,000m3 each per battleship (I don't think they differentiate between class one and class 2 BS's for that packed size) Aramgeddon is 1.1 million m3 packaged Apocalypse is 1.2 They're 50,000 m3 on the test server . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.

Malacore	Posted - 2005.06.25 14:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Andarias With the advent of this new unrepairable ship, can we PLEASE get remote hull repair modules? Um... what?
Namtuk	Posted - 2005.06.25 15:07:00 - [52] A Carebears dream come true ehh, lol who wants to fly that junk.
Dimitri Forgroth	Posted - 2005.06.25 17:30:00 - [53] Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 25/06/2005 17:30:29 Originally by: Namtuk A Carebears dream come true ehh, lol who wants to fly that junk. Roflolz its a ship that can't gank, hahaha. Lets see, maybe alliance people who want to fuel pos's more easily, move large amounts of modules and ships from empire in one go, etc. \| Don't be a bad loser \|
Unimatrix 01	Posted - 2005.06.25 17:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Rafe Waddo Originally by: Dionysus Davinci Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 24/06/2005 21:13:23 Originally by: Plekto eek. 50 top speed? That thing's meat just getting in and out of gates and stations. Then it explodes and all the cargo litters the place. Not like anything other than a frieghter can even pick up that packaged BS. And 1,000,000 units of Veld? It'd take several hours to haul it away working in shifts. Actually it would be 10million units of Veld :flashfact: Which would be enough for 30,030 refines and at perfect refine would yield you 30,030,000.00 units of Trit or about enought trit to produce 4 Megathrons. Anyone want to calculate how long it would take to mine 10 million units of veld A Covetor w/ Tech I stripminers does 58218.6 m¦/hour, so it would only take you 17 hours, 10 minutes and 33 seconds. So... A Corp mining Op with 6 Covetors could do it in just under 3 hours? Hmm, 10Mish Isk per hour (direct market sale of the yielded Trit) not too bad, most likely not the fastest, but certainly respectable IMO.
Unimatrix 01	Posted - 2005.06.25 17:54:00 - [55] Originally by: keepiru Originally by: Bleakheart Originally by: Christopher Scott So can these things fit mining lasers? Probably not, since you won't be able to take these babies to belts anyway. nothing stopping you from taking them to belts. they just cant open cans. Who's gonna be the first to try the 48 hours of afk mining? lol
Andarias	Posted - 2005.06.25 22:01:00 - [56] Originally by: Malacore Originally by: Andarias With the advent of this new unrepairable ship, can we PLEASE get remote hull repair modules? Um... what? Er, essentially, if we get remote structure repairers, then we can repair the freighter without paying out the ASS.
Darkwolf	Posted - 2005.06.25 22:39:00 - [57] Can't say I'm particularly pleased about the Caldari Industrial 5 requirement. But anyway, I've already got Gallente Industrial 5, so I guess I'm flying one of them :P
DarkFenix	Posted - 2005.06.26 22:43:00 - [58] Weren't CCP saying how they wanted us not to use insta bms to gates etc? Seems to me it won't be possible to use freighters without instas.
Zoidberg ENB	Posted - 2005.06.26 23:18:00 - [59] Frieghters can't open their cargo holds anywhere but stations. They can not mine because that'd require opening the cargo hold. Originally by: Unimatrix 01 Who's gonna be the first to try the 48 hours of afk mining? lol Why walk when you can skip?
Karl Staf	Posted - 2005.06.26 23:23:00 - [60] last time i mined i did not need to open the cargo on the ship i was mining in.. but it was needed to open it to jetison the ore. but whit 1 mil in cargospace I would not need to open anytiong.. not saying i like the idea that these can be used for afk mining.. _________ http://blades.stylii.com (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.

sableye	Posted - 2005.06.26 23:51:00 - [61] Originally by: Karl Staf last time i mined i did not need to open the cargo on the ship i was mining in.. but it was needed to open it to jetison the ore. but whit 1 mil in cargospace I would not need to open anytiong.. not saying i like the idea that these can be used for afk mining.. I don't think they have any slots at all
Sadist	Posted - 2005.06.27 04:06:00 - [62] Edited by: Sadist on 27/06/2005 04:06:12 Even if you manage to fit a mining laser, theres nothing stopping the devs from coding a simple pop-up window that says you can't activate the module, because it'd require you to access the cargo hold. Which is probably done already anyways. --------------- Originally by: Dark Shikari "One Trit to rule them all, One Trit to find them, One Trit to bring them all, and in the veldspar bind them"
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.27 06:51:00 - [63] Originally by: Sadist Even if you manage to fit a mining laser, theres nothing stopping the devs from coding a simple pop-up window that says you can't activate the module, because it'd require you to access the cargo hold. Since they have no High, Med, or Low slots, 1 cpu and 1 PG, i find the likelyhood that you could fit a mining laser, somewhat slim. Real men, play Rugby
Maxine Stirner	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:03:00 - [64] That is some nice cap generation that there thingy has goin on. 3500/216s Now if only it had a fitting slot. I guess you can handle your support convoy NOSing you pretty well.. Locking Times & Evil Asteroids
Asharee Intrefer	Posted - 2005.06.27 07:15:00 - [65] Edited by: Asharee Intrefer on 27/06/2005 07:16:34 Originally by: Maxine Stirner That is some nice cap generation that there thingy has goin on. 3500/216s Now if only it had a fitting slot. I guess you can handle your support convoy NOSing you pretty well.. I think generating a warpfield for something the size of a small mountain range takes a considerable amount of cap, so it needs that recharge rate to do anything more than hop along in 1AU warps when after it's gone dry.
Zarrina	Posted - 2005.06.28 18:52:00 - [66] Any word on cost?
Dargon Starjammer	Posted - 2005.06.28 19:47:00 - [67] a freighter can carry a packaged freighter in it's cargo hold? that realy doesn't make much sence to me.... what is a freaight nothing but a big ship with the difernce between space and teh cargo hold 1 cm. of metal?
Crzycnck2	Posted - 2005.06.28 20:42:00 - [68] Originally by: Dargon Starjammer a freighter can carry a packaged freighter in it's cargo hold? that realy doesn't make much sence to me.... what is a freaight nothing but a big ship with the difernce between space and teh cargo hold 1 cm. of metal? Well what about giant containers being 3000m3 in size but has 3900m3 for space. These things are station to station so taking them anywhere else I think will be useless. If ccp does take away instas (BIG MISTAKE CCP) it will limit travel with these ships greatly. Could you imagine taking that ship 40 jumps going 60/ms to a gate 40 freakin times, that works out to be 2.315hrs of travel time (this is 40 x [15000-2500]). This of course does not take into consideration time for getting into warp, warping and then coming out of warp. That figure is simple how long it would take the ship to CRAWL to each gate to jump threw when it has come out of warp. This thing would need some escorting and that would be sooo boring and take forever. FIX FTW
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.06.28 22:02:00 - [69] even wthout bookmarks you could easily have it gangwarp into jumprange. It figures that these ****s need an escort, and for once, they are actually escortable due to the fact they might not be ganked in 5 seconds as opposed to nomral indies. So, they sounds perfectly fine to me so far, extremely usefull but indeed vulnerable ships. I'm sure we're gonna love em. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Citizen Angstrom	Posted - 2005.06.28 23:03:00 - [70] Originally by: Darkwolf Can't say I'm particularly pleased about the Caldari Industrial 5 requirement. But anyway, I've already got Gallente Industrial 5, so I guess I'm flying one of them :P Good point Darkwolf, and one that CCP seem to have missed. Simply put, the freighters are biased towards Gallente characters. Why? ...Everyone knows that if you want to 'be the best' at hauling, you get Gallente industrial 5 skill, and jump into an Iteron V. This means that all the Gallente specialist hauliers are ready to use the damn things, whereas all other races are not! Is it too late to beg CCP to make the skill requirement racial industrial 4 instead of 5?

Aleis	Posted - 2005.06.29 00:04:00 - [71] Any one able to get Screens from the other ships?
Bubba Fett	Posted - 2005.06.29 00:06:00 - [72] Originally by: Citizen Angstrom Good point Darkwolf, and one that CCP seem to have missed. Simply put, the freighters are biased towards Gallente characters. Why? ...Everyone knows that if you want to 'be the best' at hauling, you get Gallente industrial 5 skill, and jump into an Iteron V. This means that all the Gallente specialist hauliers are ready to use the damn things, whereas all other races are not! Is it too late to beg CCP to make the skill requirement racial industrial 4 instead of 5? Yes, it's FAR too late for that. As far as I know, every indy in the game gets a bonus to cargo space for each level of the indy skill. There's always been a good reason to train indy5, it's just a bit better reason for gallente characters. This is balanced by the fact that at lower skill levels, the gallente indy's are a lot less impressive. (compare the stats of an iteron 1 or 2 and a bestower) If you're not serious enough about hauling to train indy5 then why should you be able to move a million meters of cargo at a time? (I can drive a jetski, why can't I get a job running a supertanker?)
Citizen Angstrom	Posted - 2005.06.29 06:50:00 - [73] Originally by: Bubba Fett Originally by: Citizen Angstrom Good point Darkwolf, and one that CCP seem to have missed. Simply put, the freighters are biased towards Gallente characters. Why? ...Everyone knows that if you want to 'be the best' at hauling, you get Gallente industrial 5 skill, and jump into an Iteron V. This means that all the Gallente specialist hauliers are ready to use the damn things, whereas all other races are not! Is it too late to beg CCP to make the skill requirement racial industrial 4 instead of 5? Yes, it's FAR too late for that. As far as I know, every indy in the game gets a bonus to cargo space for each level of the indy skill. There's always been a good reason to train indy5, it's just a bit better reason for gallente characters. This is balanced by the fact that at lower skill levels, the gallente indy's are a lot less impressive. (compare the stats of an iteron 1 or 2 and a bestower) If you're not serious enough about hauling to train indy5 then why should you be able to move a million meters of cargo at a time? (I can drive a jetski, why can't I get a job running a supertanker?) Thank you Bubba. You look a little... Gallente to my eyes. I assume you have a racial industrial skill to level 5?
Bubba Fett	Posted - 2005.06.29 07:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Citizen AngstromThank you Bubba. You look a little... Gallente to my eyes. I assume you have a racial industrial skill to level 5? [/quote Why yes, I am gallente and I do have industrial 5. Now I'm busy training spacship command 5 so I'll have all the pre-req's when freighters hit the market. I've got BS level 5 too so I'm pretty close to being able to fly a dreadnaught also. (want those lowered too because you didn't want to put in the training time?) While all my friends were out having fun in their combat ships I was cooped up inside learning how to fly an It5. If you wanted to fly an indy with more cargo space you could have trained caldari indy5. If you wanted to fly the biggest indy you could have trained for an It5 yourself. Now that a bigger indy is being brought in you want the bar lowered to suit you? I think it's unfair that you need to train for a dozen years to be a highly paid doctor. I don't like school so I think I should be able to be an MD after a 2 week course.
Oisin	Posted - 2005.06.29 13:20:00 - [75] Originally by: babylonstew i hope your right, cos that armour shield ratio on a caldari ship looks more than a little borked, it would tank a gank-a-geddon, what, 25 secs to rub it out max? so much for being surviable etc... Badger has 475 armour, 175 shield. Badger Mk II has 650 armour and 350 shield. The same goes for Minmatar indies, and of course Gal and Amarr - every hauler of every race has more armour than shields. It looks like freighters are just following that pattern. OisÝn (pronounced Uh-sheen) The Council's carebear stepchild.
Kuroro Lucifer	Posted - 2005.06.29 17:36:00 - [76] Imo it would be plain stupid if these giants didn't require the specialization of Indy V. They're not supposed to be available to anyone who has the money, but to those that have invested in the training and sacrificed something else this way. Atleast I think so. The same goes for dreadnaughts, although I'd love to be able to fly one within a year. --- The spider will live forever
Matthew	Posted - 2005.06.29 21:54:00 - [77] Originally by: Dargon Starjammer a freighter can carry a packaged freighter in it's cargo hold? that realy doesn't make much sence to me.... what is a freaight nothing but a big ship with the difernce between space and teh cargo hold 1 cm. of metal? Simple, the freighter is little more than a huge armoured shell around a huge empty space in the middle. When you take the shell apart (i.e. repackage it), you put all the bits together in a pile, removing all that empty space from the inside, leaving the empty space on the outside to accomodate an assembled freighter around it. It's exactly the same reason why you can fit an unassembled flat-pack wardrobe in your car, but not a fully-assembled one.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.06.29 22:03:00 - [78] Originally by: babylonstew i hope your right, cos that armour shield ratio on a caldari ship looks more than a little borked, it would tank a gank-a-geddon, what, 25 secs to rub it out max? so much for being surviable etc... Took like a minute and a half to kill one on sisi They're not suppose to be survivable anyway, thats what those uber tank transport ships are for. ________________________________________________________
Traxman	Posted - 2005.06.30 07:42:00 - [79] Thank you first for posting the pics on the Freighter but i think there is flaws for this ship. Basic, you are not allowed to change anything on this ship, so you just take it or leave it as it's CCPs way. First, to repair hull/armor you need a low slot and i wont even do the math to repair 10k armor at a station so ppl will rather trash the ship and buy a new one (meaby thats the CCPs plans ?) and atleast should all Freighters have enought CPU/PG to fit a medium armor or an medium hull repairer and why not PG/CPU for a 100mn ab too or 2 med for Caldari for the prop and a shiled booster. as it looks we cant do a thing with this ship, so its CCPs way - not your. This ship will come handy for ship producers that dont have every races skills and same for ore/mineral/ice haulers but I dont like the zero config options for this, and not even a chance to repair it. As i see it, you need a gang for this to get more speed and proberly someone fitted with remote armor repairer to fix damage so meaby its a new way for not playing solo anymore.. well, the time will tell us more what CCP have in mind for this ship. Now its time to change for Gallente Indi lvl5 :(
Matthew	Posted - 2005.06.30 09:11:00 - [80] Originally by: Meridius Took like a minute and a half to kill one on sisi Well, a minute and a half could be a very long time if it has a significant escort shooing back at you (as it should if there's any chance of it being attacked). Incidentally, have you tried out what it would take to suicide-gank one before concord toasted you? Originally by: Traxman First, to repair hull/armor you need a low slot and i wont even do the math to repair 10k armor at a station so ppl will rather trash the ship and buy a new one (meaby thats the CCPs plans ?) Or, they could be sensible, and get a friend to use remote armor repairers on him. Structural damage would still be a bit nasty though, but if your freighter is got into structure regularly, you've probably got bigger problems.

KHEN	Posted - 2005.06.30 12:04:00 - [81] My question is : how often have you to haul 1.000.000 m3 from station to station ? As many we use Iteron mk5 with local hulls for the hauly duties, since we have some pos to feed, we haul about 1.000.000 m3 per week from fuel to advanced and tech2 components. Even with a freighter we would have to do many trips since the stuff we need/produce/sell is spanned over a dozen of systems I am really sorry to be so hurting, but I think that the cargo space is too big for a solo or small corp use. This ship will do the hapiness of medium / big corps for hauling in 0.0 space and it won't be used everyday but only sometimes. So it will have a decent escort and it will represent a great opportunity for pirates or enemy corps to take one down. Anyway I gonna buy one ASAP !!! :D
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2005.06.30 12:07:00 - [82] No matter how hard I try, I can't get excited about a really big box with engines. Sure, it'll be huge, and look cool, and no doubt will be very useful to some people, but for me, not a show-stopper.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.06.30 13:01:00 - [83] Originally by: KHEN My question is : how often have you to haul 1.000.000 m3 from station to station ? As many we use Iteron mk5 with local hulls for the hauly duties, since we have some pos to feed, we haul about 1.000.000 m3 per week from fuel to advanced and tech2 components. Even with a freighter we would have to do many trips since the stuff we need/produce/sell is spanned over a dozen of systems I am really sorry to be so hurting, but I think that the cargo space is too big for a solo or small corp use. You won't need to get anywhere near filling the thing for using one to be better than many runs in an Iteron V. Lets do some worst-case maths here. First, no instas, so 15km to travel for every jump, plus an extra one per dock. Secondly, lets guess at the freighter taking 3 times as long to warp gate-to-gate (combination aligning and possible slower warp speed). Lets also assume the average warp time for an Iteron V is 1 minute. Lets say you want to haul something to a station 5 jumps away, and end up back at base, for a 10-jump round trip. The iteron 5 takes 10 minutes in warping time, plus it has a total of 180km of normal-space to travel. I can get a fully-expanded Iteron V up to about 200m/s, for a time of 15 minutes. This gives a total travel time for one run of 25 minutes. The freighter takes 30 minutes in warp. From the stat's I've seen, I could get it up to about 75m/s, so the 180km would take 40 minutes., for a total travel time of 70 minutes. Therefore, in the time the freighter can do 1 run, the Iteron could do 2.8 runs. I belive you can ram about 30k m3 into an uber-expanded Iteron V. Which means the freighter is useful for this run if you need to haul more than 302.8 = 84k m3. That's 84/1000100 = 8.4% of the freighter's total capacity. Even if we factor in that the freighter is a juicier target than solo Iterons, so give it a 3-pilot escort, who could instead be sneaking through in iterons unescorted, the total pilot-time for the freighters is now 280 minutes, so the iterons could do 11.2 runs, for a breakeven cargo of 336k m3. So even with a 3-man escort compared to unescorted iterons, the freighter is the better option if it's over 1/3 full. Of course, if we factor in instas, so assume zero normal-space travel, the iteron takes 10 minutes, the freighter 30 minutes. So unescorted breakeven is then 90k m3, escorted is 360k m3. Iterons will still have their use for low-volume end-point distributions, but you certianly won't need a full million m3 to haul before they become useful.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.06.30 13:08:00 - [84] Some of the high end ores really dont fit too well in a iteron (i can get about 1000 units of ark with expander 1's). If your station doesnt have a refinary close by that means alot of hauling where as you could stick it in a frieghter, have a light scout or escort party and transport it, in bulk to a refinary to process. All in all i think they will make 0.0 mining alot easier, but they also need to be "dockable" with PoS to make use of them (since the lack of npc stations in 0.0), either that or just use them in empire to transport large volumes of trit. I must admit the lack of any mids or lowslots could make repairing these things a pain, without remote armour reps. Real men, play Rugby
Matthew	Posted - 2005.06.30 13:40:00 - [85] Originally by: Jim Steele I must admit the lack of any mids or lowslots could make repairing these things a pain, without remote armour reps. That's the one thing that would be nice to change - give it some way of having structure damage repaired without relying on the repairshop. I don't mind it having to rely on remote repping, but the lack of both self-repping and remote-repping options for structure is a bit harsh.
KHEN	Posted - 2005.06.30 15:09:00 - [86] Matthew. Thank you for your maths about the 84000 m3 threshold, it is very smart, I will use it for sure. Now I know why the dev pushed the freighters capacity from 100.000 to 1.000.000 m3 !...
Matthew	Posted - 2005.06.30 15:19:00 - [87] Originally by: KHEN Matthew. Thank you for your maths about the 84000 m3 threshold, it is very smart, I will use it for sure. Now I know why the dev pushed the freighters capacity from 100.000 to 1.000.000 m3 !... Thanks Just don't take the exact numbers as hard-and-fast. The method should be fine, but the exact numbers I used were ballpark guesstimates - you'll probably want to do some timed trial runs to get more accurate figures, but I'd be surprised if you found any route that needed the freighter to be more than 1/4 full without escorts.
Ishtari	Posted - 2005.06.30 15:34:00 - [88] lvl 4 courie5r missions are often more then 20-30k each. And it might be that a freighter is cheaper and easier to get then a full set of top expanders.
Lefia	Posted - 2005.06.30 20:21:00 - [89] Originally by: Ishtari lvl 4 courie5r missions are often more then 20-30k each. And it might be that a freighter is cheaper and easier to get then a full set of top expanders. Indeed, cost should also be a prime consideration when comparing the freighter to a fully rigged ITMK5. If freighers are fairly inexpensive (~20-30 mil) then there should be a comparison done with a similar cost ITMK5. Now I realize that we do not currently have a cost associated with the freighter, but it's definately a future consideration. Originally by: hired goon ------------------------------------------------ I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had. ---------
Private Botch	Posted - 2005.06.30 21:27:00 - [90] Edited by: Private Botch on 30/06/2005 21:28:16 Well what I'm looking at is using the Frieghter for mining OPs. Not in the normal sense. Using the Freighter to move in the hauler, and Mining barges to a station with a low refine. Use the ships until you have a full load of Ore for the frieghter with the Ships inside and move back to a Perfect refine at another station. I know that all empire stations will be getting reprocessing but it doesn't mean they are going to be any good. With 1 large mining barge with strip miners. It will take 17.5 hours to full a Freighter so with a few people it wouldn't take long.

Bsport	Posted - 2005.06.30 21:34:00 - [91] well your near enough be able to live out of one ship, ppl with small ship collection will be able to move all the ships and other stuff into it and move around -------- \|~~~\| I run out of money, so bunny has been \| OIL \| grounded down to make grease for my \|____\| rifter- poor bunny
Repossessed	Posted - 2005.06.30 21:55:00 - [92] Ok, questions not answered, will it be able to mine? A horrible yet somehow appealing question to my mind. But I am not sure if I understood a previous poster, if this is what you intended, but it does give me a devilish idea. Running 4 characters atm so I see the combination like this: Stack 2 retrievers in your hold, packaged. Or covetors. Move your ops to low sec system with station(refine does not matter). Other chars move in fighting ships to location,(and one industrial in hold, almost forgot) INSTANT MINING Group! Pop em out in station, hit roids, run back, load friegter to gills, escort it to refine and rinse and repeat. But seriously one comment here that WILL make sense. Realize all the numbers are probably place holders, slots, volumes, resistances, so do NOT count on those numbers holding. 1 pg and 1 cpu? LOL, don't believe it. My .92 iskies.
Private Botch	Posted - 2005.06.30 23:36:00 - [93] Edited by: Private Botch on 30/06/2005 23:37:44 I think that the 1 cpu and 1 power grid is to stop Eve from bringing up a error. The software might not like having a ship with a 0 amount of CPU or Power Grid. As for mining in it, I think it would be a bad idea to have turret slots on it or else it will turn into a blob in a 1.0 system. The Stats we have seen are not final I'm guessing, so there is a chance that it might get some slots. I would like a medium slot for a shield booster or something. Also you might of noticed that it didn't have the ability to lock targets so no mining (check the stats. It has no lock targets or signal strength).
Talairina Tsinth	Posted - 2005.07.01 01:20:00 - [94] I thought you wouldent going to be able to go anywhere in space another than station to station. I.e. no traveling to belts etc. This may of just been hear say of cause. Also this freigter is going to be awesome for those fleet battles. Can you imgaine the ships? Someone loses a ship oh i know ill just got the safe spot get the fregither pilot to drop one for me and away i go again. Easy and safe and perfect. This ship could be great in a number of roles but everyone wants it just for trading and hauling!? give me the abilty to move feets and im happy. Tal
Traxman	Posted - 2005.07.01 04:15:00 - [95] Edited by: Traxman on 01/07/2005 04:16:48 Yes, i agree that for mining ops even for 'smaller' corp a freighter can be used, but insurance on covetors cant be used if you want to repackage 10 Covetors and all mining stuff you need, but its way faster to have one guy haul all stuff to teh mining op, and everyone can take a shuttle there.. when they are done, i bet the hauler have room for the mining stuff and the ore they made up.. still dont like the zero slots :( TomB nerfbat strikes Freighter for one extra low and med slot.
Lefia	Posted - 2005.07.01 04:33:00 - [96] Originally by: Talairina Tsinth I thought you wouldent going to be able to go anywhere in space another than station to station. I.e. no traveling to belts etc. This may of just been hear say of cause. Also this freigter is going to be awesome for those fleet battles. Can you imgaine the ships? Someone loses a ship oh i know ill just got the safe spot get the fregither pilot to drop one for me and away i go again. Easy and safe and perfect. This ship could be great in a number of roles but everyone wants it just for trading and hauling!? give me the abilty to move feets and im happy. Tal That's a nice theory, except it would be really hard to board a packaged ship in a can . Originally by: hired goon ------------------------------------------------ I agree with every point and counter point that has been brought up in this and every other argument ever had. ---------
Bleakheart	Posted - 2005.07.01 04:45:00 - [97] Originally by: Lefia Originally by: Talairina Tsinth I thought you wouldent going to be able to go anywhere in space another than station to station. I.e. no traveling to belts etc. This may of just been hear say of cause. Also this freigter is going to be awesome for those fleet battles. Can you imgaine the ships? Someone loses a ship oh i know ill just got the safe spot get the fregither pilot to drop one for me and away i go again. Easy and safe and perfect. This ship could be great in a number of roles but everyone wants it just for trading and hauling!? give me the abilty to move feets and im happy. Tal That's a nice theory, except it would be really hard to board a packaged ship in a can . Does sound nice, but in fact they can neither scoop loot nor drop cargo while in space, which is the reason why folks are hoping it can dock in a player structure out in 0.0.
Matthew	Posted - 2005.07.01 08:24:00 - [98] Originally by: Talairina Tsinth I thought you wouldent going to be able to go anywhere in space another than station to station. I.e. no traveling to belts etc. You can fly the freighter to any location you like, the limitation is that you can't open the cargohold outside of a station. So you could fly the freighter to a roid field, but it would be pretty useless when it got there.
Ossprey	Posted - 2005.07.01 22:22:00 - [99] Damn!!! Never mind how big they are How many GSC's can they haul??
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2005.07.01 22:31:00 - [100] The freighters will be able to haul 20 battleships. They will also equalize the market by bringing the trit selling at 2 ISK 10 jumps from yulai to Yulai. -- Dark Shikari: POS Consultant! Want your POS to make money like mine do? I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50 million a day in profit--each! Just call me up--no ubermoons required!



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