Ink Sink... economy rage.. non monocle... using isk not plex

Thread needs more monocles, only ruby looks distinguished enough amongst these wallflowers.

This coat > a monocle. Sorry.

Paradoxically increasing the supply of minerals due to mining becoming far more worthwhile than before. The faucet merely changed shape.

Stay on topic, which is managing the amount of isk in the economy. I (still) realise you are blindly defending your cashflow, but manufactured goods don't inflate; the cash supply does. All this noise you're creating is a poorly executed attempt to obscure this.

... as long as none of them interfere with your cashflow?

For the record? I'm not trying to "halt any discussion on blah blah blah whatever drivel you spat out." You'd have gotten a much better response if you'd come in and said "You know, bounties contribute a lot of the faucet and nullsec likely is a big part of it, maybe we could replace some or all of the isk they produce with some other way to reward players for killing them" instead of dropping in with the implication that nullsec was the sole source of the faucet and man those whiny brats should all be forced to just mine or build for their money whether they like to or not.

Yes, this is why trit is worth 6 isk/unit and other low ends are similarly more expensive. Because, you know, the supply is larger. That's how supply and demand works, right guys? Supply more of it and the price goes up?

You've got to have a reason for the amount of isk in the economy to actually matter; normally that's the price of goods and services. In other words, it is on topic.

... as long as none of them interfere with your cashflow?

Still putting words into my mouth, I see. Can you explain why you think players in nullsec should be forced only to mine and build for their income again? You sort of ignored that one. Here, let me quote it for you again.

man those whiny brats should all be forced to just mine or build for their money whether they like to or not.

As we're discussing the inflation of the economy it would make sense that the usual reduction in the price is negated by the increase in the amount of isk, reducing its value and therefore keeping prices up. Sarcasm not one of your strengths, obviously.

I didn't say that at all. I said turn off the artificial supplies of isk; the anomolies that appear magically due to infrastructure being deployed.

As for putting words into mouths ... priceless! I still submit that it makes no sense concord paying out bounties to players in nulsec, especially in the player-owned nulsec. You pay out the bounties, if that's what you want. Make your own economy instead of piggy-backing off empire space. That will reduce the amount of isk in the game, in a big way.

It will put a strain on the blue doughnut as resources will become a bone of contention. Not enough ice fields where you are? Go and take one from the opposition. Now THAT'S why most wars are fought and you ARE into PvP aren't you?

Anomalies appearing are like mission agents who have an unlimited quantities of missions, but this is EvE - an actual harsh and cruel universe would have Agents advertise for bids to take their jobs, and if someone else quotes less than you do to kill those blood raiders, well, they get the contracts.

this is what happens when a mechanical engineer argues with ecomonics major's isn't it

Had a good chuckle at this. I thought the economics majors would have been less uppity after 2008. At least when a mechanical engineer stuffs up all that Happens is the coal company gets 995TPH instead of 1000TPH

Had a good chuckle at this. I thought the economics majors would have been less uppity after 2008. At least when a mechanical engineer stuffs up all that collapses is a bridge...

That's a civil engineer. When a mechanical engineer stuffs up it's a 787 dreamliner or a ford pinto or something like that.

The Pinto was a wonderfully designed....



....bomb.

Had a good chuckle at this. I thought the economics majors would have been less uppity after 2008. At least when a mechanical engineer stuffs up all that collapses is a bridge...

Well, there is the saying that civil engineers design the targets and mechanical engineers design the bombs.

Me trying to explain why to him, was you guys trying to explain complex economics to me (isk sinks lol)

4. The speed that ISK changes hands between players or its "Velocity" (combined with more Faucets then sinks) is what causes ISK inflation (?)


Is that largely correct? Is there another key point somewhere I am missing? (Just trying to understand inflation really)

This thread was an excellent read and really helped me understand a few things I had never really considered.

Not being the sharpest tool in the shed I took the following away from it:

1. An ISK faucet is defined as ISK changing hand from NPCs to players
2. An ISK sink is defined as ISK changing hands from a players to NPCs
3. Contrary to what I believed ship losses in PvP are NOT a direct ISK sink because the actual "ISK"exist in the ship sellers wallet somewhere

4. The speed that ISK changes hands between players or its "Velocity" (combined with more Faucets then sinks) is what causes ISK inflation (?)

Velocity is one part, but the balance between ISK faucets and sinks also plays a role. And of course, ISK inflation is affected by/affects Mudflation (materials inflation) because ISK doesn't quite behave like a real currency (basically because, unlike the real world, individuals can create it).

Yes.


Not quite. If "Isk Inflation" is just the amount of isk in the game growing, then any faucet contributes. Inflation of the price of commodities as a result of that generally doesn't happen (supply/demand factors on the materials used to build them matter way more), and PLEX prices are affected by velocity more than the actual excess of isk in the economy (or that's what the evidence suggests to me, anyway). That said, two things about velocity: First, it's velocity of *any* isk, not just between players (see: incursions), and second, isk inflation does play an indirect role simply by meaning there's more isk to move around if the factor at the time is velocity between players.

NPC services. Increasing fees for using research and manufacturing queues. They are always active and represent an isk sink. This affects empire more than nulsec.

Naturally an option is to leave it as it is and hope for the best. That tends to be also a real world option.

Imo NPC research and industry slots should cost as much as POS slots.

That would be a first step to dis-incentivize pure hi sec production by null sec players, would be a first step at incentivizing POSes usage (and thus help ices markets and hi sec wardecs) and be a sensible ISK sink.

If it promotes POS usage then the net effect would be a reduction in the sink as people move away from the NPC facilities.

1)your assuming build prices have a part in production, i mine my own minerals crowd & noobs will always use stations and ignore fees, some ppl just want to mine and build there own **** thats fine. (this is VV target)

2) your assuming major builders aren't already using pos's, which means like most scrub economics nerds what want to talk big here & have never actually traded or built anything in eve your ignoring the 0.75 speed bonus a pos gives.

3) Your assuming every roleplay hi-sec producer with his merlin blueprint is going say, holy **** guys i have to spend 4k extra an hour per slot, better go spend 2b+ to optimize my build.

VV;s idea is solid, i dont always agree with the nerd.

When someone takes out a loan the money appears, like it's been created. This is true of all economies that use a fiat currency. This is how the western economies have become so bloated with debt; the ad hoc creation of money. It's what's causing inflation in eve, and I still assert the way to tackle it is to look at the real world and see the methods used to cope.

You know what I'm assuming? I'm impressed. I assumed nothing; merely exploring how to make the hisec NPC facilities more of an isk sink than they already are.

1) You're trying to appear smarter than you really are.

2) You're trying to appear smarter than you really are.

3) You're trying to appear smarter than you really are.

On counts 1 - 3 you have FAILED!

If it promotes POS usage then the net effect would be a reduction in the sink as people move away from the NPC facilities. I'm unaware of pos's using any NPC-sourced materials, so therefore they don't contribute to the isk sink. As a benefit of dissuading the nulsec alliances from hogging hisec resources, I agree, but that's for another topic.

An increase to the sink would be to charge for the entire time in the queue, not just for the active time. While that MAY drive people away from the NPC facilities, equally it may not. I believe the queues would shrink a bit but they wouldn't disappear, and each queue-hour would likely be sinking multiple amounts of isk.

733,377,961 ISK spent installing manufacturing jobs - 326m of that going to player corporations