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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
108
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Posted - 2013.01.19 00:08:00 -
[2191] - Quote
You have GOT to be kidding me.
POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is?
What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix?
"Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2
That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es.
You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing. |
Jacabon Mere
Capital Storm. WHY so Seri0Us
36
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Posted - 2013.01.19 00:11:00 -
[2192] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:It is good to hear that all of you are so heavily invested in the game, and specifically in things that need an overhaul. You guys still have passion for EVE and that in turn makes me more passionate for what I do here. Furthermore, it would appear that Two step, albeit being present at the CSM summit, seems to have misinterpreted what has been stated so far. That said, I want to bring three quotes from the CSM meeting minutes to your attention:
From page 15:
"Unifex: Once we have a theme, we can begin to thread the issues you've identified as needing to be prioritized into that theme. POS's, for example, desperately need some improvement. How do we fit that work into our theme? Maybe we don't do all of the modular POS work at once, but we start by making some modules, solving the hangar problem, for instance. But that new hangar module would also exist to support other new activities as part of the themed expansion. "
From page 99:
"Seagull: We have 4 things that are interacting [regarding the POSes]: the gameplay and design of the POS system, the role POSes play in achieving things in the game (its features), the technical layer (code) then manages all of this (which currently is old and needs refactoring), and art. Regarding art, there is the question of do you want to redo the art, do you want to show individual modules (as opposed to have things inside, like a station), and then you have technical issues, such as what does the rendering complexity of a scene do to client performance?"
"Seagull: The reason there's a GÇ£noGÇ¥ to doing [Modular POSes] right now is that it was affecting all of these areas in a way that was too big to do at once. What you're trying to do is try to find a way to get what you want, but what we need to do is go back and look at how we can separate all these layers, and figure out something reasonable, and then have Art do something that's immersive and amazing."
Nowhere has CCP stated that the Player Owned Structure system will not receive attention. Many of you have already pointed out that it is painful to use at best, a huge pile of unusable dingleberries at worst. Some talk about this being the "old" CCP appearing again but I want to assure all of you that the mistakes that happened in 2011 will not repeat themselves. CCP has only stated that THE OVERHAUL CANNOT HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE
I can't make promises for game designers or the people that make content for EVE Online. Please try to remember that. What I can do is assure you that your voices have been heard, the opinion of the CSM has been heard, and the concerns raised in this thread have been heard.
your quoting irrelevant stuff.
CCP Unifex. (Page 37)
It would, however, only affect the group of people who manage POSes.
CCP Soundwave (Page 38)
On top of that, Soundwave added, the POS system by itself would only affect a small portion of the community.
The objections are to those. Any defence for them when it is quite clear that a lot of people have vested interests? Capital Storm is recruiting Aussies for Nullsec pvp and money making. Join "Capital Storm Pub" channel ingame. www.capitalstorm.net |
MedinaRegal
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 00:14:00 -
[2193] - Quote
Come on CCP.
You can't spend eternity trying to resist modernity. This is how you create bittervets. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2227
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Posted - 2013.01.19 00:14:00 -
[2194] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:You have GOT to be kidding me. POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is? What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix? "Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es. You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing. Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever.
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Arronicus
Vintas Industries Mistakes Were Made.
108
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 00:16:00 -
[2195] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Arronicus wrote:You have GOT to be kidding me. POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is? What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix? "Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es. You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing. Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever.
The POS rebalance has been many years overdue, and we were actually promised it a year ago, so development into limited engagements, while perhaps not drawing exclusively away from POS revamping, did directly draw away from the resource pool that we were informed what, last december (2011) was going to go towards the pos revamp. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2228
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 00:40:00 -
[2196] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:Gogela wrote:Arronicus wrote:You have GOT to be kidding me. POS'es were deemed to be not a worthwhile investment of resources, but what is? What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix? "Carebear highsec fights" (Duelling.) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194782&p=2That's right. A feature that almost noone wants, that almost noone cares about, that is already facilitated through the use of other mechanics (Jetcan at a safespot, be in same corp, RvB, safespot in lowsec), has been prioritized, over POS'es. You should be proud, CCP. Really. I am in awe of your prioritization here. This is mind blowing. Well.. I think that limited engagement feature was actually meant for Retribution and just didn't get done in time... so I don't think it was developed at the expense of POS's explicitly. I'm not sure that CCP even has firm plans yet for the summer. From the minutes it looks like there is no plan whatsoever. The POS rebalance has been many years overdue, and we were actually promised it a year ago, so development into limited engagements, while perhaps not drawing exclusively away from POS revamping, did directly draw away from the resource pool that we were informed what, last december (2011) was going to go towards the pos revamp. Actually they've been taking about the need for a POS re-write since 2006. Don't get me wrong, I'm on the side of wanting the POS's to get fixed. I'm just saying if the foundation of an argument is shaky the probability of winning decreases. Here's a list of some links to devs talking about modular POS's going back to 2006.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
55
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Posted - 2013.01.19 01:11:00 -
[2197] - Quote
Steve71342 wrote:Not Politically Correct wrote:This is actually a kick at the CSM 7 meeting notes that were recently released, too.
Too many of the vocal CSM 7 members want more stuff to destroy and have no interest in building things. I think this issue would have been pushed if that wasn't true.
Once again, CCP has totally missed the boat. A LOT of people want to build POSes, but, with the current interface, it just doesn't make much sense.
Are the vocal CSMers afraid that a revised POS system would make them harder to kill?
Yes, I read all 113 pages. more creation means more destruction.
Not exactly what I had in mind, but POSes still need a LOT of work. |
Zandithious
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 01:13:00 -
[2198] - Quote
Please Fix POSes there is a large section of the community in Low and Null that uses them on a daily basis. |
Petrified
At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.01.19 01:24:00 -
[2199] - Quote
I have managed and manage POSes.
I would greatly appreciate it if there was an improvement to the POS system. CCP has often demonstrated that to improve numbers of players partaking of a system, they improve that system - T1 Frigate and Cruiser improvements for instance. While the numbers of POS uses are small at present, anyone who has used a POS knows it is a pain in the tush to set them up and manage. Fuel Blocks simplified fueling - that was great. But right now I feel like I have a junk yard floating in a soap bubble around a moon.
I want something closer to a station in space, something that I and fellow corp mates could even dock in - perhaps Incarna's vision of players interacting out of pod can at least be realized in a small environment like a POS? But I digress: A modular system would be great to have. I want something that looks neat and clean. Something where I don't have to manually move minerals from X module to Y module to manufacture or invent something.
Give me a mini-station, that is really what I am looking for. |
Celly Smunt
Viziam Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:27:00 -
[2200] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:+1 do something about this.
1. They should be more logical - for example common storage space. 2. Have more DPS - be able to take at least one capital during a reinforce phase ( if someone is stupid ) 3. Be more customizable 4. Pos shield could be an additional module - vary in size ... and fuel consumption 5. Have different base setups: - industry pos 1 reinforce but no major ship storage - "home pos" large ship storage ... but no industry capability ( multiple reinforce timers ... yes sometimes you want to get 3 days off from the game) - military instalation High damage, high defence - JB, Cyno Jammers etc ... no industry or big ship storage, but large shield .
yes and no... You wrote: "home pos" large ship storage ... but no industry capability ( multiple reinforce timers ... yes sometimes you want to get 3 days off from the game)
However, I personally build stuff in my garage or basement all the time, i do little projects here and there plus I have tools, some people even have a home office, so simply saying "no industry" would have me and others like me simply living in a regular station since we'd have to go there to do any work anyway... I don't disagree with different sizes of POSes as that might determine how many items can be connected to it (IE. Modular) but the whole idea behind it being modular is to allow folks to customize their POS into their vision and that which would make it useful to them. in a sense we already have what you've suggested due to power and CPU limitations in the current system of small med and large/standard sized POSes all it would need is some permissions cleanup and a few smaller tweaks
just saying.
o/ Celly
Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
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Zanmaru
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.01.19 01:44:00 -
[2201] - Quote
Junko Sideswipe wrote: Faction war is garbage.
Uhhhhhh... no. There's room for improvement, sure, but no.
+1 for POS revamp |
Van Slyke
The Red Circle Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:48:00 -
[2202] - Quote
I've lived in w-space for over 2 years now. For the love of Bob will you fix POS's already? We've paid our dues |
Merouk Baas
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:52:00 -
[2203] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:What was more important than fixing poses? What would affect a larger playerbase than fixing poses? What have you dedicated some portion of resources to, that might have otherwards gone toward expiditing a pos fix?
DUST 514. They don't want to take the Dust team and put them to work on EVE POSes.
We're confusing things a little bit in this thread:
- Fixing the POS game mechanic, adding security, making a nice user interface, whatever, that's doable, and they never refused to do that (eventually).
- Coding new station modules that you can walk inside of, which is what the original "Modular POS" idea was, requires all the art and animation guys that are currently working on DUST. They cannot take those guys away from DUST.
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Celly Smunt
Viziam Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:53:00 -
[2204] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:What I'd really like (VERY LOW PRIORITY!) is an in-game mechanism whereby I can hack into it and take it over - Squatting in someone else's derelict tower seems kinda like a fun opportunity to get some pew-pew going on.
That's easy Codebreaking, since each POS has a small power source that tells the computer to start the reaction when there's fuel in it. if you "hack" the POS's computer (which is online because of that start-up power source) you can rewrite it's software to recognize you/your corp as the new owner and accept your commands. It would require hacking specialization (new skill book) and at minimum a Tech 2 codebreaker and the chances of success would still be low. it would only work on offlined POSes in WH space because there's no access to the communications beacons there, so the Tower wouldn't be able to authenticate/deny your commands remotely and once you put fuel in it to bring it online, it would configure itself fully to your command codes and if someone came back?, well, they'd have to fight for it i'd think.
short version of course
o/ Celly Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
J Drez
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 01:53:00 -
[2205] - Quote
+1
Two Step I love you |
Celly Smunt
Viziam Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 02:10:00 -
[2206] - Quote
Bo Red wrote:Batelle wrote:... Also, they require corporate-level faction standings in hisec, so you either need to kick everyone out of the corp for a week or form a shell corp just to anchor one... This is a pretty broken way of doing things, I think. At least, they should only base it mainly on the CEO's and/or Directors' standings and make a skill like Diplomacy mollify the effect of corp members standings.
My corp CEO toon has SOV to 3 or 4 at the moment, I'd have absolutely no problem training "Corporate Diplomacy" on him and then updating the corp with his skills to achieve better "corp" standings with the factions even though some of the members` standings aren't that great.
o/ Celly Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Celly Smunt
Viziam Amarr Empire
56
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 02:14:00 -
[2207] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:+1 for self destruct button on a POS doing doomsday damage to everyone within 100km
well, if you have to go out, might as well go out big huh???
:P Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or be singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator. |
Trader13
NOT A FRONT
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 02:44:00 -
[2208] - Quote
As someone who interacts with the horrible pos system on a daily basis, the talk of a pos revamp was one of the most exciting prospects on the horizon.
Please don't continue to delay addressing the issues them. |
Metralha100
Stargate Command Original
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 03:39:00 -
[2209] - Quote
CCP, you promised. Keep your promise! |
Allota Lovin
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.01.19 04:56:00 -
[2210] - Quote
I have lived in a wh for 2 years and have had hi sec pos's for several years. Please fight for the modular pos, I believe a lot more people are affected by pos's than they admit. Full support for the long promised pos changes. An expansion dedicated just to pos's sounds great to me. |
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Luna Moonraker
LUNA-CORP
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 04:57:00 -
[2211] - Quote
Fully support the OP.
A revamp of the POS system, especially a modular design, would provide much that is missing now. Both in design and functionality. |
Zalzany Gerran
The Oasis Group TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 05:14:00 -
[2212] - Quote
With the population of players finally growing to a respectable amount, as in I can recruit WoW players with out getting laughed at. I got to say its a bit overdo. I personally just got back into the game, tried it 6 years ago and wasn't happy with the rough start. Right now with out POS, the idea of doing profitable production is just a joke, 20-60 day research ques are the biggest reason I am trying to get access to my alliances's POS.
Its just sad to think about how many new players there are out there using unrehearsed BPOs, especially since most don't realize if they sold their building mats they would make quite a bit more isk, with out that research. |
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.01.19 05:15:00 -
[2213] - Quote
Give the POS some Lovin! Better placement interfaces, automated turret deployment and reloading, better gunnery interface, more toys and BETTER GRAPHICS AND MODELS! |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
57
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 05:33:00 -
[2214] - Quote
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:Give the POS some Lovin! Better placement interfaces, automated turret deployment and reloading, better gunnery interface, more toys and BETTER GRAPHICS AND MODELS!
You are asking for too much. What you want would require input from at least three of their teams, who seem to work together like oil and water do.
Suppose they just fix the interface first? |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
501
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 05:41:00 -
[2215] - Quote
Honestly, kinda glad. I like the current force-field mechanics There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Cyprus Black
The Learning Curve.
599
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 06:28:00 -
[2216] - Quote
Does anyone else find it troubling that we have to put forth all this effort into convincing CCP that POS mechanics are a significant problem? Doesn't this sort of CCP denialism harken back to the days of Pre Incarna and the hubris of CCPs lead designer?
I find it troubling. Trolling is like art. Anyone can finger paint, but it takes true talent to create a masterpiece. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
2949
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 06:31:00 -
[2217] - Quote
Two step wrote:Lets try playing nice until the planning process is done, to start with.
What about soliciting ideas from the playerbase to aid in the planning process? Or is it already far too late for that?
Specifically, addressing issues raised by CCPs Gargant and Seagull:
- Do we put modules inside or outside? (both!)
- Where do we start? (e.g.: shoebox in space: just an anchorable place where we can "dock")
- Where to go from there? (e.g.: personally anchorable shoebox, then start working on revamped access controls that apply only to modular starbases)
Even the appearance of having some contribution to the discussion may be enough to turn people from "damn, they're abandoning POSes" to "hooray! they're working on POSes!"
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Tythihoz
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
0
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Posted - 2013.01.19 06:43:00 -
[2218] - Quote
The current PoS system is really in need of a revamp. There's so many changes that could be done
So yes, I'm all for the change of the current PoS system. |
Smokay
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 06:48:00 -
[2219] - Quote
A revamped POS system would definitely get me more interested in w-space. +1 |
IIFraII
The Red Circle Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 07:40:00 -
[2220] - Quote
Do something CCP!
Don't make wh folks angry, who knows what could happen should a wh open above Iceland!
Seriously, we have endured awful pos mechanics enough. |
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