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After reading the patch notes.. I feel sorry for the pirates out there

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Avon	Posted - 2005.07.04 15:34:00 - [301] Originally by: CCP Hammer http://pic.eve-online.com/hammerhead.jpg Shouldn't that be a link? Let me fix that up for ya. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
MindBender	Posted - 2005.07.04 15:51:00 - [302] Originally by: Ivie I wouldnt have a problem with this if you would put security hits such as ship destruction and pod kill on par with security status gain. It makes absolutely no sense that you can pod 1 person and loose -1.0+ but in order to gain that back you would have to spend weeks of npcing, where is the fairness in that? And to all the people that have said "actions have consequences" or things of that type, how would all the mission runners like it if you said no to 1 mission you got bumped down a lvl (ex: saying no to a lvl 4 agent mission means you loose so much standing you have to do lvl 3's againt) because thats basically how it is with pod kills in low sec.... Get with the game plan. It is quite simple. Pirate in 0.0. In 0.0 ship kill + pod kill = 0 sec status hit. CCP NEVER intended for people to be pirating in high sec areas. If you want to PVP in empire then you should join a true corp and declare war, then ship kill + pod kill = 0 sec status hit. This fix ONLY affects the gankers that want to be able to kill in +5 space and above and CCP has stated repeatedly that the only PvP in .5 and above is supposed to be with a war declaration. I have participated in lots of PvP and have quite a few ship and pod kills. But these all took place in 0.0 space and I have never had to hunt NPC to get my status back up. My sec status has been at +5.0 for 2+ years now. So go ahead and gank the noobs in empire and suffer the consequences or be a man and move out to 0.0 where people actually shoot back.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.04 15:53:00 - [303] Originally by: MindBender Get with the game plan. It is quite simple. Pirate in 0.0. In 0.0 ship kill + pod kill = 0 sec status hit. CCP NEVER intended for people to be pirating in high sec areas. If you want to PVP in empire then you should join a true corp and declare war, then ship kill + pod kill = 0 sec status hit. This fix ONLY affects the gankers that want to be able to kill in +5 space and above and CCP has stated repeatedly that the only PvP in .5 and above is supposed to be with a war declaration. I have participated in lots of PvP and have quite a few ship and pod kills. But these all took place in 0.0 space and I have never had to hunt NPC to get my status back up. My sec status has been at +5.0 for 2+ years now. So go ahead and gank the noobs in empire and suffer the consequences or be a man and move out to 0.0 where people actually shoot back. Technically you can't pirate in 0.0 ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Dr Slaughter	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:13:00 - [304] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 04/07/2005 16:20:09 2 hours a day, thats 13 days. For a GAME, that's a lot of grind in anyones books. The 12 minute assumption is pretty generous, it will likely be longer intervals so 25.8 hour is a best case scenario. Oh, come on, assuming the person got the negative sec. from killing people who had BS's. How long will it take the ex-BS owners to replace hundreds of millions of ISK? Probably a fairly long 'grind' for them collectively. People who are now 'shocked' because they're going to have work harder for Concord to level their sec. standing are being a bit disingenous. I would imagine CCP didn't want to mention they would be closing some loop-hole NPC's as it would be drawing even more attention to what effectively amounted to an minor exploit already. For all you 's out there.. enjoy low sec. space for a while longer. There need to be more ways to negate negative security rating, period. Yes they may take long, but at the very least give the people some diversity. I know... how about let the person who got blown-up give the sec. points back... if they like.
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:14:00 - [305] Originally by: Avon Originally by: MindBender Get with the game plan. It is quite simple. Pirate in 0.0. In 0.0 ship kill + pod kill = 0 sec status hit. CCP NEVER intended for people to be pirating in high sec areas. If you want to PVP in empire then you should join a true corp and declare war, then ship kill + pod kill = 0 sec status hit. This fix ONLY affects the gankers that want to be able to kill in +5 space and above and CCP has stated repeatedly that the only PvP in .5 and above is supposed to be with a war declaration. I have participated in lots of PvP and have quite a few ship and pod kills. But these all took place in 0.0 space and I have never had to hunt NPC to get my status back up. My sec status has been at +5.0 for 2+ years now. So go ahead and gank the noobs in empire and suffer the consequences or be a man and move out to 0.0 where people actually shoot back. Technically you can't pirate in 0.0 Here is the true ganker pirate mentality. If you cannot kill the defenseless noobs in high sec, then your not a pirate. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:16:00 - [306] Originally by: Dr Slaughter 2 hours a day, thats 13 days. For a GAME, that's a lot of grind in anyones books. The 12 minute assumption is pretty generous, it will likely be longer intervals so 25.8 hour is a best case scenario. Oh, come on, assuming the person got the negative sec. from killing people who had BS's. How long will it take the ex-BS owners to replace hundreds of millions of ISK? Probably a fairly long 'grind' for them collectively. People who are now 'shocked' because they're going to have work harder for Concord to level their sec. standing are being a bit disingenous. I would imagine CCP didn't want to mention they would be closing some loop-hole NPC's as it would be drawing even more attention to what effectively amounted to an minor exploit already. For all you 's out there.. enjoy low sec. space for a while longer. If you are going to equate the time to recover sec with the time to earn isk, give the option to buy sec. Otherwise, don't bother comparing them. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:17:00 - [307] Originally by: Miri Tirzan Here is the true ganker pirate mentality. If you cannot kill the defenseless noobs in high sec, then your not a pirate. lol. No, I said 'Technically' It isn't piracy in 0.0 ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Redblade	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:21:00 - [308] Originally by: CCP Hammer I increased the amount of security status you get on ALL NPCs by 2x Increased the amount commanders (and complex end bosses) give by 4x Increased the amount the officers give by 8x Sounds fair, now all we need is the 15min agression timer redused Killboard
DoctorDanny	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:31:00 - [309] Must....chain....dual Guardian Enforcer Spawn.... before the patch hits!!! Too bad it is so boring
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:33:00 - [310] Originally by: CCP Hammer I increased the amount of security status you get on ALL NPCs by 2x Increased the amount commanders (and complex end bosses) give by 4x Increased the amount the officers give by 8x This is a cheap, marginally effective bandaid fix for a set of game mechanics which are literally nothing more then a cheap, marginally effective collection of bandaid fixes. It's time to just replace the game mechanics of piracy.
Dr Slaughter	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:35:00 - [311] Originally by: Avon If you are going to equate the time to recover sec with the time to earn isk, give the option to buy sec. Otherwise, don't bother comparing them. Actually I did (kinda) but it was in my edit sometime between you reading and replying. Personally I wouldn't accept ISK.. but fertilizer removal from Rens might be accepted!
Joal	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:39:00 - [312] Edited by: Joal on 04/07/2005 16:40:51 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Miri Tirzan Here is the true ganker pirate mentality. If you cannot kill the defenseless noobs in high sec, then your not a pirate. lol. No, I said 'Technically' It isn't piracy in 0.0 And you are technically... wrong. Short definition of Piracy (google check as you please) : The unlawful seizure of property or ships on the high seas. Please note the very important underlined bit. To help: Short definition of High Seas(google check as you please) : The open seas of the World outside the territorial waters of any nation. Therefore, pirates are outside sovereign zone. In history, pirates had a very short life expectancy in the Solent!. They were quite successfull in the West Indies ( backwater outposts) UNTIL the big nations put a real effort to clean the mess. Board a ship, kill its crew, seize everything less than 12 miles of any country and you will be hanged as (at sea) robber/murderer not a pirate. Transposed to EVE: Sectors 0.5+ are territorial waters where piracy don't exist. Just some noob criminals looking for a fast justice. Sectors 0.1-0.4 are disputed waters (akind Far West) where police forces are not enough to catch everyone on the spot. Sectors 0.0 are "high seas". Pirates for the win!
Scorpyn	Posted - 2005.07.04 16:53:00 - [313] Originally by: CCP Hammer I increased the amount of security status you get on ALL NPCs by 2x Increased the amount commanders (and complex end bosses) give by 4x Increased the amount the officers give by 8x While you're at it, could you look into whether the fast talk skill is actually working? It doesn't really seem to do anything, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place...
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.04 17:11:00 - [314] Originally by: Joal Edited by: Joal on 04/07/2005 16:40:51 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Miri Tirzan Here is the true ganker pirate mentality. If you cannot kill the defenseless noobs in high sec, then your not a pirate. lol. No, I said 'Technically' It isn't piracy in 0.0 And you are technically... wrong. Short definition of Piracy (google check as you please) : The unlawful seizure of property or ships on the high seas. Please note the very important underlined bit. To help: Short definition of High Seas(google check as you please) : The open seas of the World outside the territorial waters of any nation. Therefore, pirates are outside sovereign zone. In history, pirates had a very short life expectancy in the Solent!. They were quite successfull in the West Indies ( backwater outposts) UNTIL the big nations put a real effort to clean the mess. Board a ship, kill its crew, seize everything less than 12 miles of any country and you will be hanged as (at sea) robber/murderer not a pirate. Transposed to EVE: Sectors 0.5+ are territorial waters where piracy don't exist. Just some noob criminals looking for a fast justice. Sectors 0.1-0.4 are disputed waters (akind Far West) where police forces are not enough to catch everyone on the spot. Sectors 0.0 are "high seas". Pirates for the win! 0.0 is space, not sea. Taking stuff there isn't unlawful. Technically, it isn't piracy. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.07.04 17:19:00 - [315] Originally by: Joal Edited by: Joal on 04/07/2005 16:40:51 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Miri Tirzan Here is the true ganker pirate mentality. If you cannot kill the defenseless noobs in high sec, then your not a pirate. lol. No, I said 'Technically' It isn't piracy in 0.0 And you are technically... wrong. Short definition of Piracy (google check as you please) : The unlawful seizure of property or ships on the high seas. Please note the very important underlined bit. To help: Short definition of High Seas(google check as you please) : The open seas of the World outside the territorial waters of any nation. Therefore, pirates are outside sovereign zone. In history, pirates had a very short life expectancy in the Solent!. They were quite successfull in the West Indies ( backwater outposts) UNTIL the big nations put a real effort to clean the mess. Board a ship, kill its crew, seize everything less than 12 miles of any country and you will be hanged as (at sea) robber/murderer not a pirate. Transposed to EVE: Sectors 0.5+ are territorial waters where piracy don't exist. Just some noob criminals looking for a fast justice. Sectors 0.1-0.4 are disputed waters (akind Far West) where police forces are not enough to catch everyone on the spot. Sectors 0.0 are "high seas". Pirates for the win! Using a definition to support your cause just to find out you didn't understand the terminology you thought made you look clever = priceless
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.07.04 17:24:00 - [316] See the thing is that in 0.0, pretty much everyone ganks everyone else. Pirates in empire see you as a source of income. The 0.0 alliances will kill you just for looking funny at "their" roids. So really all the 0.0ers are pirates. But whatever. I am right and we will see that I am during the week after patch day. By the way you might want to use secure cans for all that low sec mining you are planning on doing. After all, if you waste an ore thief you will be spending an awfully long time NPCing to attone. Oh and by the way. The real carebear "pirates" are already in 0.0. They sit on the gates into empire in their battleships and jump if anything scares them. But I guess you people wouldn't know that as I doubt you have ever been in a 0.4 or lower. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
Lord Artemis	Posted - 2005.07.04 17:30:00 - [317] the only way pirates can go back to ransoming vs. ganking is by extending the time it takes to destroy ships, tho i have seen times where you have someone locked down and there is no gate or station to crawl to when they do have someone pinned down, but unfortunately gates and stations are the only places people hang out at nowadays, i mean ffs, there are systems in empire with 0.0 sized veldspar or close to it (the real problem is for those being ransomed that can't type faster than 20 words per hour ) ___________________________ Aegis Militia Conclave official representative
Avon	Posted - 2005.07.04 17:32:00 - [318] Originally by: Lord Artemis the only way pirates can go back to ransoming vs. ganking is by extending the time it takes to destroy ships, tho i have seen times where you have someone locked down and there is no gate or station to crawl to when they do have someone pinned down, but unfortunately gates and stations are the only places people hang out at nowadays, i mean ffs, there are systems in empire with 0.0 sized veldspar or close to it (the real problem is for those being ransomed that can't type faster than 20 words per hour ) To bring back ransoming you just need to make webs and scramblers flag you to players, not npc's (ie sentry guns) ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Redblade	Posted - 2005.07.04 17:51:00 - [319] Originally by: Avon To bring back ransoming you just need to make webs and scramblers flag you to players, not npc's (ie sentry guns) Like the idea. Killboard
HUGO DRAX	Posted - 2005.07.04 18:11:00 - [320] No, leave Ore theft as is, its is a petty crime and jetcans are fine as is. Bring about the church so pirates who wish to regain security status could dock and repent for all sins and pray to Xenu for forgiveness.
nahtoh	Posted - 2005.07.04 18:18:00 - [321] Originally by: theRaptor Oh and by the way. The real carebear "pirates" are already in 0.0. They sit on the gates into empire in their battleships and jump if anything scares them. But I guess you people wouldn't know that as I doubt you have ever been in a 0.4 or lower. Oh pls take your elitest bull** somewhere someone gives a toss...sorry but in and out of 0.4 and lower all the sodding time...I don't mind that there are pirates, they add that spice when you are flying through lowsec... The only thing I mind is some little toerag thinking that teh grinding to get their SS back up is somehow more of a chore than getting the stuff they take from other players. There is absolutly no differance between don't fly you can't afford to lose and don't don't do the crime if can't take the punishment...**. "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
Soren	Posted - 2005.07.04 18:52:00 - [322] Originally by: Avon Well, isn't this fun. CCP introduce new low-sec features that carebears will just 'have' to have. Toys 4tw. But.. Ohnoes, people won't go to low sec 'cause it is full of gankers. Solution, get rid of gankers. Method: Poke gankers with pointy stick to make them really , then lock them in low-sec space with no chance of escape. Not sure it is all that well thought out tbh. If you think this is a moany and whiny thread, give it a week for the "Why gankers make carebear toys impossible to use", "Ohnoes, dec'd again", and "Why can't my dread stay in safe space?" threads. /me giggles _________________________________________________________
Blind Fear	Posted - 2005.07.04 19:05:00 - [323] Edited by: Blind Fear on 04/07/2005 19:07:01 Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Blind Fear This is a cheap, marginally effective bandaid fix for a set of game mechanics which are literally nothing more then a cheap, marginally effective collection of bandaid fixes. It's time to just replace the game mechanics of piracy. Details plz. I would change it to the following: Criminal flagging would last 24 hours. Sentries would only respond to aggression in front of them. They would also respond for 15 minutes to shipkills (not aggression) elsewhere in the system. If you are flagged, it is clearly visible to other players, and a timer is visible to yourself. If you have aggroed the sentries, a clearly visible timer denotes that as well. Security status restrictions on travel are removed. -3.0 is the new outlaw status. If an outlaw initiates unprovoked aggression in .5-1.0, CONCORD/sentries will aggro on them for 24 hours, with each subsequent violation increasing that by an additional 24 hours. Outlaws are obviously allowed to defend themselves if attacked in high-sec. 750k NPCs are fixed to .08%, but every NPC killed gives a security status increase. The sec hit for aggression is completely removed. Lvl 4 location agents are changed to tracking agents. They will update you if the target jumps for X amount of time, dependant on quality. Remotely usable CONCORD agents are implemented which will tell you for free the current location of anyone who has participated in a pirate-type (non 0.0/corpwar) shipkill of you within the last 24 hours.
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.07.04 19:15:00 - [324] Everybody keeps saying that it will serperate pirates: but the only thing it will really do is kill belt pirates and raise all the lame sniping pirates of the underworld ------------------ Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine
Skva	Posted - 2005.07.04 19:16:00 - [325] I apolagize if this has already been said, but I got to the sixth page before I noticed this was seventeen pages long, a bit too much to read through when all I want to do is ask a simple question. I heard someone say that EVE is all about specialization, and that we all have to find something we enjoy doing and stick with it. Well, that's great and all... But what about us newer players who want to try out all the different professions before we start specializing our skills? I've tried mining, manufacturing, missioning, trading and most recently, pirating. I don't think new players should have so suffer such a long grind to get back to a security status above -2, simply because they experimented with what EVE has to offer. I'm not saying that it should be extremely easy to raise your security status, but for newer players who are trying our the different professions, I'm guessing most won't be able to handle the 750k spawns, so the grind will be even longer. Just an idea, but maybe make it easier or harder to gain or lose security status depending on your current security status. For example, a person with a -2 security status would gain more sec rating for killing a NPC pirate than say, a -10 player would. This allows for players who want to try out the 'dark side' to get back up to a reasnable security status without too much grind, but for those 'real' pirates who don't really care about their low security status, it is harder for them to increase it. I haven't seen many real pirates in this thread whining about this fix, mostly just border-line(ish) sec-status players who aren't really a pirate, just trying things out. I'll stop now, as I'm rambling. But I honestly think that that idea would help. It would help those who just podded that annoying ore thief, or experimented with the darker side of EVE recover from their actions, while makes it a lot harder for the people with lower security status' really pay for their actions. I've noticed that since saying I'd stop rambling, I've continued even further.... So I promise this time I'll stop. This would also effect the positive side of the sec-ratings. Meaning that it would be relativly easy to go from 0.0 rating to 1.0 or maybe 2.0 or whatever, but the further you advance up the security ladder the slower it gets. Damnit, happend again. Honestly stopping this time... - Tom
Dr Slaughter	Posted - 2005.07.04 19:36:00 - [326] Originally by: Skva I don't think new players should have so suffer such a long grind to get back to a security status above -2, simply because they experimented with what EVE has to offer. - Tom Kinda inverse to the way shields and cap recover? Hardest to recover @ -10 easier at @ -5 and pretty quick from -2 up and perhaps throw in a time element so if you go 'straight' for a while without any negative sec. hits it gets even easier, perhaps...
ParMizaN	Posted - 2005.07.04 20:53:00 - [327] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Skva I don't think new players should have so suffer such a long grind to get back to a security status above -2, simply because they experimented with what EVE has to offer. - Tom Kinda inverse to the way shields and cap recover? Hardest to recover @ -10 easier at @ -5 and pretty quick from -2 up and perhaps throw in a time element so if you go 'straight' for a while without any negative sec. hits it gets even easier, perhaps... New players will find it extremely difficult following a piracy career... they wont be able to fix that sec status nor make any money.. which means that they wont be able to fix that status.. sounds good doesnt it? ------------------ Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2005.07.04 22:11:00 - [328] I thank CCP for their compromise over the sec status modifiers on NPCs. I would have preferred to see the sec status increase timer removed instead, but at least we have successfully made ourselves heard without the n00b minority totally discrediting us. It is still 5x the grind, and it will still trap a lot of people, but it gives borderline cases a little bit more room for maneuvre and doesn't put off newbies from giving the career a try. I can see it's going to be a really specialised occupation though. It remains to be seen whether that's good or bad. Regarding the question of whether 0.0 residents are pirates or not, personally I see the vast majority as soldiers, fighting for a player-run sovereign entity. There is nothing ignoble about that. There is no point in having a debate over who is lamer, 0.0 rats or Empire rats, as it's just a different environment.
Sergeant Spot	Posted - 2005.07.04 23:04:00 - [329] Originally by: CCP Hammer I increased the amount of security status you get on ALL NPCs by 2x Increased the amount commanders (and complex end bosses) give by 4x Increased the amount the officers give by 8x My "hunch" (and I could be wrong), is that the reason CCP is "fixing" the 750K npcs is that 0.5+ suicide ganking has been getting more common. I guess this is one way to fix that. But there does need to be some way to fix a friendly fire "opps". I've been on both ends of such mistakes more than once (mostly in 0.0, and only one that resulted in a ship lose). Target selection mistakes in empire wars also happen. Hopefully the increased overall security rewards will about equal out, although I'm sure others will say they won't, even before testing things. Frankly, if it involves a bit more grinding, thats good if it make Yulai suicide gankers rarer. I'm also sure some folks will say that the security reward for non-750k npcs should not be increased. On that I disagree. Adding some difficulty to raising security is one thing, making it effectively permanent is another. (and those two things are not the same thing).
Mister Locke	Posted - 2005.07.05 00:48:00 - [330] Originally by: ParMizaN Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Skva I don't think new players should have so suffer such a long grind to get back to a security status above -2, simply because they experimented with what EVE has to offer. - Tom Kinda inverse to the way shields and cap recover? Hardest to recover @ -10 easier at @ -5 and pretty quick from -2 up and perhaps throw in a time element so if you go 'straight' for a while without any negative sec. hits it gets even easier, perhaps... New players will find it extremely difficult following a piracy career... they wont be able to fix that sec status nor make any money.. which means that they wont be able to fix that status.. sounds good doesnt it? lol new players wouldnt be able to take on 750k rats anyway, before or after this patch. So what difference does it make to new players? "I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." --Frank Sinatra

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Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine

Run and fall or stand in line, in the end what's your's is mine