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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
247
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:00:00 -
[211] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: Explain to me how getting rid of NPC corps, driving lots of carebears out of the game, improves the game!
Would DayZ be improved if there was a flag players could pick that would make them vulnerable to zombies only? They just want to farm zombie loot all day. The devs should respect their valuable PvE dollar. Of course not. It would actively diminish the game. So it is with NPC corps and EVE.
I don't play DayZ, so I could not care less what DayZ does.
When EVE started, there was no high sec, no CONCORD, no NPC corps.... and the player base was tiny.
CCP added these things to attract carebears and casual players. And it worked. Subscriptions have continued to increase the more accessible they make the game.
CCP knows that if they take this away, the number of subbed accounts will crash through the floor. So, they won't. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
53
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:01:00 -
[212] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:I posted in Features & Ideas on a possible solution to get players out of NPC corps into player run corps. It also addresses war dec avoidance. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2536640The jist of the idea is to give player corporations skills that give bonuses to the corporation which only apply when you are a member. If the skills are exspensive enough and take long enough to train it will be an disincentive from quitting the corp and starting a new one because you'll have to start over again. While a novel Idea, i reject ideas that "push" people to do anything. People should do what they want where they want as long as they accept the consequences of their action,s and there should be consequences. It is the game that should be consistent
Nerfing NPC corps is pushing people to do something. Its an attempt to push them out of the corp. I'm going to argue that it didn't work with taxes and won't work with anything else. You need to buff player corps and it encourages players to move out of NPC corps.
It makes being in a corp that can be wardec'd more at an advantage than being in an NPC corp. So it means if you take more risk and stick with the corporation, you'll reap an equivalent reward more suited for the level of risk you are taking.
Isn't that what you want? You want people who take more risk to be rewarded?
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:02:00 -
[213] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:
also you're in a 0% tax haven corp with no war history.
Can someone wardec smokin aces to give Jenn a good feel of this whole wardeccy thing?
Maybe "Center for Advanced Studies" should wardec us... Oh wait.....
Yes that's it. You''re getting the hang of it now. It is a door that swings both ways.
I don't think you're very internally consistent Jenn. You may have been hanging out in the POS alone with your 14 alts for too long. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
247
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:03:00 -
[214] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: While a novel Idea, i reject ideas that "push" people to do anything. People should do what they want where they want as long as they accept the consequences of their action,s and there should be consequences.
It is the game that should be consistent
There are consequences. There is the risk of the suicide gank.
Want to talk consistent? Why can you war dec a corp at all. Nations wardec. High sec corps are not nations. Null sec nations that hold sov should be able to war dec other sov holding nations... and that's it!
How would that change for internal consistency work out for you oh supreme judge of consistency? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1236
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:06:00 -
[215] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:
also you're in a 0% tax haven corp with no war history.
Can someone wardec smokin aces to give Jenn a good feel of this whole wardeccy thing?
Maybe "Center for Advanced Studies" should wardec us... Oh wait..... Yes that's it. You''re getting the hang of it now. It is a door that swings both ways. I don't think you're very internally consistent Jenn. You may have been hanging out in the POS alone with your 14 alts for too long.
12 alts, and we're too busy solo camping Jita to worry about the likes of you!
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1236
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:08:00 -
[216] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: While a novel Idea, i reject ideas that "push" people to do anything. People should do what they want where they want as long as they accept the consequences of their action,s and there should be consequences.
It is the game that should be consistent
There are consequences. There is the risk of the suicide gank.
And in a PLAYER corp their is the risk of a suicide gank AND A WARDEC.
Get it? Player corp 2 risks, noc corp 1 risk.
Tell me you get it, i will be sad if you don't!
Quote: Want to talk consistent? Why can you war dec a corp at all. Nations wardec. High sec corps are not nations. Null sec nations that hold sov should be able to war dec other sov holding nations... and that's it!
How would that change for internal consistency work out for you oh supreme judge of consistency?
Do you actually read the stuff you post lol?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
247
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:09:00 -
[217] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Anyways, all moot points, i doubt it will change but im going to lobby our CSM brosefs hard to take a look at these kinds of things and bring them to ccps attention. NPC corps aren't game breaking, their just poorly implemented.
Lobby all you want, but CCP will ignore them.
CCP knows that when they made the game more accessible to casual players and carebears, the subscriptions skyrocketed.
How do I know high sec, CONCORD and NPC corps won't be removed? Because CCP went to the work to add them, they accomplished what CCP hoped they would accomplish(more paid subscriptions), and CCP has no desire to see that reversed.
There is room in EVE for players of many, many play styles. CCP wants to be making real money off all of those play styles.
There is nothing internally inconsistent about CCP making different sets of rules that apply to different areas of the game, to make the game appeal to people with various play styles. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:09:00 -
[218] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:
also you're in a 0% tax haven corp with no war history.
Can someone wardec smokin aces to give Jenn a good feel of this whole wardeccy thing?
Maybe "Center for Advanced Studies" should wardec us... Oh wait..... Yes that's it. You''re getting the hang of it now. It is a door that swings both ways. I don't think you're very internally consistent Jenn. You may have been hanging out in the POS alone with your 14 alts for too long. 12 alts, and we're too busy solo camping Jita to worry about the likes of you!
grim.
i contract my stuff like any civilised capsuleer. jita destroys braincells and reduces your will to liuve. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:16:00 -
[219] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: 12 alts, and we're too busy solo camping Jita to worry about the likes of you!
Weren't you the one whining about players living in momma's basement with a part time job at Wal-Mart and not paying the rent? Then later brought up welfare?
You know, I must really be one sorry ass player since I rarely have time to do anything with this account accept skill. Real life and all that... but then again, do I aspire to be a Fanatical Fanboy?
Nope. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
247
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 20:18:00 -
[220] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Get it? Player corp 2 risks, noc corp 1 risk.
Tell me you get it, i will be sad if you don't!
I get it.
And player corps can put up POSes for research, manufacturing, etc. Players in NPC corps can not.
Or, if you are not an industrialist, you make upto 10% more ISK from PVE in player corp.
So, yes, I get it. There are advantages (no wardec) and disadvantages (no POS and high tax) to being in a NPC corp.
AND, neither of these situations removes all consequences as you can still be suicide ganked, be scammed, mess up a market order, have other players shoot the rocks that you hoped to mine, ninja your mission loot/salvage, be penny war'ed, etc.
Jenn aSide wrote:
Do you actually read the stuff you post lol?
Yes, do you?
You want the game changed for consistency? Player corps can be wardeced but NPC can't?
That sets up two solutions to this inconsistency. 1) as you want, do something to eliminate being able to join an NC corp to avoid wardec or 2) Make player corps not wa-dec able.
You go ahead and lobby for option 1.
Personally, I'd prefer to keep the internal inconsistency than go with option 1 or option 2.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2718
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:19:00 -
[221] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote: Explain to me how getting rid of NPC corps, driving lots of carebears out of the game, improves the game!
Would DayZ be improved if there was a flag players could pick that would make them vulnerable to zombies only? They just want to farm zombie loot all day. The devs should respect their valuable PvE dollar. Of course not. It would actively diminish the game. So it is with NPC corps and EVE. I don't play DayZ, so I could not care less what DayZ does. When EVE started, there was no high sec, no CONCORD, no NPC corps.... and the player base was tiny. CCP added these things to attract carebears and casual players. And it worked. That's arguable.
Recently, carebear/casual centric expansions like Tyrannis and Incursion failed to increase subs significantly, CCP has proven unable to replicate this increase in numbers through this mythical 'trammelization = subs' concept that you say justifies NPC corps and continuing CONCORD buffs. Contrariwise, CCP's only successful expansions have been of expanding PVP and sandbox environments. They refer to the expansion that introduced new no-local zerosec as their most successful expansion. It's safe to say that judging by active subs and reception of expansion, risk-free PvE carebear catering isn't where the money is.
Games like DayZ, as I've said, have exploded in popularity while giving no special catering to carebears in any way shape or form. A pure sandbox game that CCP devs have praised. They talk a big game about 'trammel' this and 'dayz' that, but at the end of the day they're too timid to even attempt to imitate success. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:25:00 -
[222] - Quote
dayz is a non commerical arma 2 mod. described by ben 'yahtzee' croshaw as 'unreasonably cruel' it has yet to be deployed in any standalone form and I haven't bothered installing it on my new computer because zombie agress was ridiculous on the last patch I played and then the whole thing got hax0red from what i heard. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1237
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 20:26:00 -
[223] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: 12 alts, and we're too busy solo camping Jita to worry about the likes of you!
Weren't you the one whining about players living in momma's basement with a part time job at Wal-Mart and not paying the rent? Then later brought up welfare? You know, I must really be one sorry ass player since I rarely have time to do anything with this account accept skill. Real life and all that... but then again, do I aspire to be a Fanatical Fanboy? Nope.
New fact #4356, high sec people don't know what joking is.
i'm married, have kids, bills, a job 9where I get to carry a gun, but they don't trust me with bullets so i just go pew pew till the boss says stop) etc etc. And I find time for my hobby too.
If you don't have time to play an mmo, why play an mmo?
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2718
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:28:00 -
[224] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:dayz is a non commerical arma 2 mod. described by ben 'yahtzee' croshaw as 'unreasonably cruel' it has yet to be deployed in any standalone form and I haven't bothered installing it on my new computer because zombie agress was ridiculous on the last patch I played and then the whole thing got hax0red from what i heard. cool story |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.29 20:29:00 -
[225] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Games like DayZ, as I've said, have exploded in popularity while giving no special catering to carebears in any way shape or form. A pure sandbox game that CCP devs have praised. They talk a big game about 'trammel' this and 'dayz' that, but at the end of the day they're too timid to even attempt to imitate success.
How much does a sub to DayZ cost?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:33:00 -
[226] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: If you don't have time to play an mmo, why play an mmo?
Define "time to play an mmo"? I have to put in 10 hours a week just to get ISK for PLEX.
This is a big part of the reason that I need the NPC option in the case of a wardec. An extended wardec that prevents me from making ISK, prevents me from buying PLEX, and therefore, prevents me from keeping up my subscription.
Why play? To work with others to build things.
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Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:33:00 -
[227] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Games like DayZ, as I've said, have exploded in popularity while giving no special catering to carebears in any way shape or form. A pure sandbox game that CCP devs have praised. They talk a big game about 'trammel' this and 'dayz' that, but at the end of the day they're too timid to even attempt to imitate success. How much does a sub to DayZ cost?
Just the price of a cool story. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2718
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:35:00 -
[228] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Games like DayZ, as I've said, have exploded in popularity while giving no special catering to carebears in any way shape or form. A pure sandbox game that CCP devs have praised. They talk a big game about 'trammel' this and 'dayz' that, but at the end of the day they're too timid to even attempt to imitate success. How much does a sub to DayZ cost? Not relevent, I thought you paid for your sub with PLEX.
LHA Tarawa wrote:My corp gets a war dec. I can't make ISK to fund my accounts. If that continues, I drop from player corp to NPC corp so that I can make ISK to fund my accounts with PLEX. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:36:00 -
[229] - Quote
someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2718
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:37:00 -
[230] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right? |
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:39:00 -
[231] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: That's arguable.
Recently, carebear/casual centric expansions like Tyrannis and Incursion failed to increase subs significantly,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/12/17/in-an-age-of-f2p-eve-online-sets-records/
I don't know... but seems like CCP is going in the right direction to me.
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Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:39:00 -
[232] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right?
what do you mean, I paid good ISK for my PLEX! I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:44:00 -
[233] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right?
Without me being able to grind the minerals, that are used to build ships, that can be bought with the ISK, there would be no reason for anyone to buy PLEX to sell to me.
It is a symbiotic circle. One can not exist without the other, so both need to be catered to.
If carebears were not able to grind, there would no one to sell PLEX to to get ISK to buy stuff from.
Another way of thinking about it. My first 40 hours a month are dedicated to the people that are paying my subscriptions, and I'm only playing for me after that. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:45:00 -
[234] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right? what do you mean, I paid good ISK for my PLEX!
OR: You paid something like 40 hours of game time at 15 million ISK an hour, for your PLEX. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:52:00 -
[235] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right? what do you mean, I paid good ISK for my PLEX! OR: You paid something like 40 hours of game time at 15 million ISK an hour, for your PLEX.
something like that yeah. it's a little bleak when you put it that way but I have plenty of time and no money. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
248
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:56:00 -
[236] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right? what do you mean, I paid good ISK for my PLEX! OR: You paid something like 40 hours of game time at 15 million ISK an hour, for your PLEX. something like that yeah. it's a little bleak when you put it that way but I have plenty of time and no money.
I have plenty of both, but I like making ISK. I didn't know what to do with all the ISK back when I was paying real to play.
That 2.2B monthly nut is motivation to grind, grind, grind.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2718
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Posted - 2013.01.29 20:58:00 -
[237] - Quote
Yes thanks to abandoning carebear-catering expansions. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2718
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Posted - 2013.01.29 21:01:00 -
[238] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:someone pays for the PLEX though, CCP aren't letting us play for free. Meaning they should cater to the person who pays for the PLEX, not you. I mean, if we're talking about catering to the people who pay the bills over the validity of the game, right? Without me being able to grind the minerals, that are used to build ships, that can be bought with the ISK, there would be no reason for anyone to buy PLEX to sell to me. It is a symbiotic circle. One can not exist without the other, so both need to be catered to. If carebears were not able to grind, there would no one to sell PLEX to to get ISK to buy stuff from. If people left because they couldn't grind PLEX in the safety of NPC corps, that means the demand for PLEX would decrease as you say, meaning the buying power of PLEX would be diminished and players would be able to take part in emergent content and pay for their subs instead of being competitively disadvantaged if they do not restrict themselves to endless grinding. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.01.29 21:04:00 -
[239] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:That 2.2B monthly nut is motivation to grind, grind, grind.
PvP solves that problem, I find. my excess cash goes toward the loss of many modest internet spaceships. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
turmajin
The Scope Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.01.29 21:06:00 -
[240] - Quote
Its an interesting idea,but not really workable to be honest. and not new either.NPC corps have their place in game.When a small corp gets war deced and players then cant play.for weeks because they cant match the oppositions firepower / wealth ectThey will either drop the game,which no one wants or drop the corp,and join a NPC and continue playing .Also NPCs are havens for vets which to be frank,are tired of doing the whole PvP thing every day,and maybe want to just chill a little and refresh their batteries or try another aspect of the game for a time.They can also be places for knowlege of the game to get pased on ,as to fits,best way to do things ect .Then again theres nothing stopping a rich alliance just attacking NPC players,yeah they may get concorded,but isnt that part of the fun element,seeing how many you can kill before getting killed yourself.Used to be in the Hulkaggeddon days . I suspect the whole point of this OP is the lack of reds in null.The leaders of TEST and GOONS might have a broship /lovey dovey relationship,but the average player just wants fun fights and to blow things up.Best way to solve this problem,.Let the respective members of TEST and Goons blow eachothers ships up anytime they want.Doesnt have to lead to a SOV war either ,as both leaderships make sure infastructure is off linits ,but any ship is a target.Other HBC and CFC alliances gladly shoot Goon or TEST members ,at will,depending on which block they are in.Time i think for TEST and GOON leaders to give their mambers the same option.Then maybe we will hear less about lack of targets ect in 0.0 |
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