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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2554
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:39:00 -
[301] - Quote
A few more ideas I've been toying with. Making NPC corps less attractive:
- Additional refinery fees for NPC corp members to penalize neutral miners.
- Additional market fees for NPC corp members to penalize neutral traders.
- Restricting trades/contracts between NPC and player corp members. This prevents people simply passing goods between alts to avoid the fees suggested above. Also makes neutral haulers more difficult to use.
Basically it should always be better/easier to be in a player corp, except for the risk of a wardec. And making player corps more attractive:
- Enhanced leadership bonuses for in-corp fleet boosters (also provides a benefit to those willing to risk an in-corp booster during war)
- Passive bonuses for operating in the same constellation as the corporation's home office. This will encourage players to operate in the same area.
- There needs to be a third bullet point here, but I can't think of one right now. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3348
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:40:00 -
[302] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:no because now I'm in a 0% tax rate solo corp which I'll pull down everytime you dec me, as many people have already said. it is no solution whatsoever. I would do this anyway if i were not a miner but there is no incentive as i do not pay tax for that activity. This is the correct way to make use of the game mechanics in the case that you need to worry about taxes.
For mining alts, industry alts, market alts, freighter alts, boosting alts and the like, an NPC corp may be less hassle as you will not need to drop/disband and reform corp. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
123
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:40:00 -
[303] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:How exactly does someone in an NPC corp not socially interact? The most active corp chats I've ever been in have been NPC Corps. Random fleet ups occur. People want help, fitting advice, skill training discussions.....
I'd say the people in NPC corps interact socially and engage in the 'Multiplayer' aspect just fine thank you.
Yes, but most people stay in ANY other channel, and have corp de-blinked.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
123
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:44:00 -
[304] - Quote
Fal Dara wrote:Both accounts i own are now NPC corp possesions.
Fal here has 135m SP's (some in reserve i havnt used) ... and there is NO reason whatsoever to join a player corp. That is the problem. Why should i?
It's not about war decs--although i dont pvp, and would likley leave most corps upon them recieving a dec... I wouldnt willingly participate in PvP in any situation--even if you forced me into some NPC corp that was FW enabled.
Raise my taxes? fine. Most people in NPC corps mine, or build. The 11% doesnt bother me, as most of the pvp/0.0 corps i or my alts have ever been in were 10% to 100% taxes ... there's no difference there. in some cases i'm way better off. (many 0.0 corps bump taxes to 100% durring ops(that can last weeks or months) to discourage ratting--which is terrible income anyway!).
Add on top of this, the fact that most player corps are inept at everything they do, and abuse industry folks like myself... and i just NEVER have a reason to be in one. They want me to build this or that, for no profit, or free (hello, who mined it? bought it? built it? fueled that pos? ME. pay me. have some respect. PvPrs dont respect miners or builders, they can NOT tell the difference).
Go to 0.0 ... to .. pvp? joy. forced log-in times for forced ops to participate in some roam or other pvp camping session that will leave me with 5 horus wasted humping a gate, running from larger fleets, or lagging out when we're hot-dropped. That's .... fun?
go to 0.0 for ... mining? Put some more trit and pyer in the ABC's and make them 3-4 times more valueable than veld in empire, and you'd have a point... but as it stands, i can make a 2 week old retriever alt and mine more in 0.7.
make friends? i do that already, quite well in the NPC corp, where there are 400 people that i can help, mission with, 1v1, talk about ANYthing to, find fits, etc etc. player corp? 10-50 people who hardly ever talk, if they're ever on. I live in alaska. My time zone excludes me from just about everything. all the US ops are east-coasters, and i catch the tail end. all the euro ops i'm asleep 2 hours before it starts, and the ausies are 4 hours off as well ....
WHY? ... why join a player corp? it offers nothing to me whatsoever. Not more ISK, not nore people/friends, not more security ... nothing.
change THAT. (and i didnt even touch on the drama and pissing contests)
raise my taxes. see if i care. i dont. i'll mission less, and build/mine more.
and those that do care will create 1 man corps and get bored and unsub in a few months.
just like when they added the 11%.
next.
I think that covers just about everything. Well said.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2722
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:48:00 -
[305] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote: your player corp isn't providing any incentive to join as your tax rate in uncompetitive.
No amount of player-owned corp tax rate confers wardec immunity. Remove the wardec immunity for true competition to take place, problem solved. no because now I'm in a 0% tax rate solo corp which I'll pull down everytime you dec me, as many people have already said. it is no solution whatsoever. I would do this anyway if i were not a miner but there is no incentive as i do not pay tax for that activity. So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:48:00 -
[306] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:A few more ideas I've been toying with. Making NPC corps less attractive: - Restricting trades/contracts between NPC and player corp members. This prevents people simply passing goods between alts to avoid the fees suggested above. Also makes neutral haulers more difficult to use. Seems like it would only worsen corp hoping issues by giving them another use.
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: - Passive bonuses for operating in the same constellation as the corporation's home office. This will encourage players to operate in the same area.
This I'm not sure I can agree with though. It effectively penalizes entities in which charaters are taking the same risks so far as wardec's are concerned but may have highly decentralized activities.
The rest doesn't seem too bad.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:49:00 -
[307] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. How do you crack down on alt play to avoid a wardec? |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
124
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:49:00 -
[308] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:Some question how an NPC corp hurts me?
I can think of a number of ways.
1) I would like to "stake a claim" upon the asteroid belts in a particular system. Competitors that come in to mine "our" ores should be wardecable. We are merely defending our terf. No, we are not big enough to move into Nullsec, and we have no desire to be a renter. But we should be able to fend off competitors. I can't tell you how often I've seen entire systems stripped by hoards of NPC mining Bots.
2) The same goes for Signatures and Anomolies. We catch you scanning in our constellation and we would like to once again fend off the competition. It is most difficult to control a local market if there are swarms of "untouchable" competitors.
3) Yes, Ganking is an option, but it is a very costly and inefficient one in comparison to simply declaring war.
There are numerous reasons for conducting warfare, being territorial is one good reason. Just imagine the tears if Player Corps and Alliances were unable to engage someone in Nullsec simply because they were in an NPC Corp, and they would risk having their SuperCap Instapoped by Concord if they tried.
See my point?
Suck it up dude. We are not here for YOUR entertainment. We're here for OURS.
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Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:50:00 -
[309] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:no because now I'm in a 0% tax rate solo corp which I'll pull down everytime you dec me, as many people have already said. it is no solution whatsoever. I would do this anyway if i were not a miner but there is no incentive as i do not pay tax for that activity. This is the correct way to make use of the game mechanics in the case that you need to worry about taxes. For mining alts, industry alts, market alts, freighter alts, boosting alts and the like, an NPC corp may be less hassle as you will not need to drop/disband and reform corp.
that's it, it's just marginally less hassle this way. I probably wouldn't bother unless i got seriously into ratting or running missions or anomalies with this character. Only time I would actually be at risk is if i have corporate assets for research or whathaveyou. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
2554
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:52:00 -
[310] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:I'm not complaining, i'm just pointing out how futile it is to change this. I can learn corporate management in 8m. if it costs me a couple of million to set up a corp I'll tear it down in a new york minute and you might as well have bountied me. this is the reaction you want? 50M down the tubes and I'm laughing at you.
No, the ability to disband or drop from a corp at war is another part of the problem of actions without consequences. Eve's all about long-term consequences, and wardecs are a part of that. If you form a corporation you can't defend from a handful of guys and you refuse to hire mercenaries to defend you, get ready to stay docked up or take losses.
Want to know how easy it is to defend against MOST of these griefer outfits who wardec small indy corps? I coached some friends through their first wardec a while back. They put a bait miner in a belt with a cloaked falcon and pilgrim on grid. When the aggressors showed up (two of them) they spent the entire fight jammed out by a falcon and ECM drones. Those guys have since become quite a successful industrial corp. They don't win every fight, but they've got teeth enough that they don't see much action these days unless they go looking for it. Most griefers won't go after a corp that has 12-15 PVP ships on every kill in their killboard. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
124
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:54:00 -
[311] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Oh yes I can. Replace them with 'freelancer' status that is effectively a one-man corp, deccable like them too. Wardecs should be the base minimum of threat in New Eden.
Why not just put them in single person corps? It would save a lot of programming time. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2722
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:57:00 -
[312] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. How do you crack down on alt play to avoid a wardec? Not avoiding a wardec if you have to play on another account. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:58:00 -
[313] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. How do you crack down on alt play to avoid a wardec? Not avoiding a wardec if you have to play on another account. Even if that account is facilitating or replacing the acts of the first? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2722
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:59:00 -
[314] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:I'm not complaining, i'm just pointing out how futile it is to change this. I can learn corporate management in 8m. if it costs me a couple of million to set up a corp I'll tear it down in a new york minute and you might as well have bountied me. this is the reaction you want? 50M down the tubes and I'm laughing at you. No, the ability to disband or drop from a corp at war is another part of the problem of actions without consequences. Eve's all about long-term consequences, and wardecs are a part of that. If you form a corporation you can't defend from a handful of guys and you refuse to hire mercenaries to defend you, get ready to stay docked up or take losses. I love how they claim it's 'futile' to rid/fix NPC corps because of corp-hopping. That's what, two simply fixed things?
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
124
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:59:00 -
[315] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:[ you know: game image and all this stuff...
Game imaget has what effect on entropy again?
Also, why should I care what you want? From things you have said, you don't care what I want. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 03:00:00 -
[316] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:I'm not complaining, i'm just pointing out how futile it is to change this. I can learn corporate management in 8m. if it costs me a couple of million to set up a corp I'll tear it down in a new york minute and you might as well have bountied me. this is the reaction you want? 50M down the tubes and I'm laughing at you. No, the ability to disband or drop from a corp at war is another part of the problem of actions without consequences. Eve's all about long-term consequences, and wardecs are a part of that. If you form a corporation you can't defend from a handful of guys and you refuse to hire mercenaries to defend you, get ready to stay docked up or take losses. I love how they claim it's 'futile' to rid/fix NPC corps because of corp-hopping. That's what, two simply fixed things? Should a wardec be able to lock people into a corp indefinitely? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2722
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:02:00 -
[317] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. How do you crack down on alt play to avoid a wardec? Not avoiding a wardec if you have to play on another account. Even if that account is facilitating or replacing the acts of the first? If it's facilitating or replacing the acts of the first, for example, using a contested station, flying a freighter through a contested gate, mining in a contested belt, the alt can be wardecced as well, provided wardec evasion was eliminated. I mean, there's the chance that there's someone out there with unlimited high-SP alts, but that may be a chance worth taking. |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:05:00 -
[318] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps.
i see you're going to battle on with this even though it is obviously futile and you clearly can't see the issues you're creating by addressing a so-called problem that no one else cares about. now solo corps are a problem. so, constraints and timers for setting up and disbanding corporations will have to be created to irritate the **** out of everyone else and will simply be gotten around with enough cash and alts. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2722
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 03:06:00 -
[319] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. i see you're going to battle on with this even though it is obviously futile See?
Skeln Thargensen wrote: so, constraints and timers for setting up and disbanding corporations will have to be created to irritate the **** out of everyone else and will simply be gotten around with enough cash and alts. oh no disincentives for blatant wardec evasion arrggh
I thought setting up such a thing was 'futile', whoops seems like I solved it in a paragraph |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 03:11:00 -
[320] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote: cos you're going on about supply lines which means absolutely nothing outside of sov null. .
Yes they do. Quote:http://red-frog.org
you can wardec them though but i understand their cunning dec shield arrangement means it will cost you an immense amount of ISK. if you think they use their mains
Why would they use their mains with people like you around? They aren't stupid, and they aren't here for your entertainment, either. |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2722
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:12:00 -
[321] - Quote
Not Politically Correct wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote: cos you're going on about supply lines which means absolutely nothing outside of sov null. .
Yes they do. Quote:http://red-frog.org
you can wardec them though but i understand their cunning dec shield arrangement means it will cost you an immense amount of ISK. if you think they use their mains Why would they use their mains with people like you around? They aren't stupid, and they aren't here for your entertainment, either. I know, the things that guy says sometimes. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
125
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:23:00 -
[322] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:It's simple... after x amount of time you get booted from the NPC corp and put into a different NPC corp that is not wardec immune.
Genius! I swear my talents are wasted here...
Yes. They are. Please leave.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
603
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 03:24:00 -
[323] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: If it's facilitating or replacing the acts of the first, for example, using a contested station, flying a freighter through a contested gate, mining in a contested belt, the alt can be wardecced as well, provided wardec evasion was eliminated. I mean, there's the chance that there's someone out there with unlimited high-SP alts, but that may be a chance worth taking.
I can see that working for individuals, though part of the issue was player organizations hiding behind NPC corp wardec immunity. Should those characters be split into their own individual corps would that not place an prohibitive burden on anyone trying to interdict their operations, both by way of identification of all the alt and through war costs? And if they do not decide to attack all the new logistical sub-entities, will they really stand to have any impact?
Acceptable advantage of larger entities?
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: I think there should definitely be an increasing 'cooldown' on multiple corphops within a short period.
So here it would take 2 wardecs (assuming no recent corp changes) on different corps to lock down a character. Since this issue isn't simply NPC corp related there is nothing preventing a group of targets in a PC from splitting to different corps to maximize their aggressors cost for following them with the deck.
Non issue? |
Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:29:00 -
[324] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:I'm not complaining, i'm just pointing out how futile it is to change this. I can learn corporate management in 8m. if it costs me a couple of million to set up a corp I'll tear it down in a new york minute and you might as well have bountied me. this is the reaction you want? 50M down the tubes and I'm laughing at you. No, the ability to disband or drop from a corp at war is another part of the problem of actions without consequences. Eve's all about long-term consequences, and wardecs are a part of that. If you form a corporation you can't defend from a handful of guys and you refuse to hire mercenaries to defend you, get ready to stay docked up or take losses. Want to know how easy it is to defend against MOST of these griefer outfits who wardec small indy corps? I coached some friends through their first wardec a while back. They put a bait miner in a belt with a cloaked falcon and pilgrim on grid. When the aggressors showed up (two of them) they spent the entire fight jammed out by a falcon and ECM drones. Those guys have since become quite a successful industrial corp. They don't win every fight, but they've got teeth enough that they don't see much action these days unless they go looking for it. Most griefers won't go after a corp that has 12-15 PVP ships on every kill in their killboard.
look this is an alt character i do certain ISK raising things with and so my main doesn't get SP bloated because of exponential rising clone type costs. I'm not into forming a plucky band of miners and fighting back against griefers. i'll simply log out for a week or leave high sec by my various means. Can you comprehend I would have a warchest and contingency plans to evade this sort of thing if i were deccable?
it's just an unlikely and minor headache if i get griefed. ganks are something i deal with and also evade for the most part and there is no warning of them whatsoever. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
snake pies
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
80
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:32:00 -
[325] - Quote
How about trying to get new subscribers who want the corporation and alliance life, instead of picking on players who obviously don't want it? You won't force them into our playstyle, they'll just leave and that means that much less people playing Eve. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
125
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:33:00 -
[326] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Because that totally negates the point I was making... Wait, no it doesn't. Just because some people in NPC corps do PVP doesn't mean they all do. The fact is, a LOT of peopl are using them as shelters from combat while continuing to engage in other PVP aspects of the game. This is imbalanced and frankly needs to be ended.
Floppy, what you are trying to do is called rationalization by psychologists. You are hoping that, if you say the right things, in the right ways, enough times, someone will believe that you don't have a problem after all.
Try harder. :)
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Skeln Thargensen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:34:00 -
[327] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:So continue to close loopholes involving wardec evasion, which includes things like NPC corps. i see you're going to battle on with this even though it is obviously futile See? Skeln Thargensen wrote: so, constraints and timers for setting up and disbanding corporations will have to be created to irritate the **** out of everyone else and will simply be gotten around with enough cash and alts. oh no disincentives for blatant wardec evasion arrggh I thought setting up such a thing was 'futile', whoops seems like I solved it in a paragraph
what 48 hr timer and i play with my alt in the meantime?
this is the issue here, you are trying to play a game that you think should exist where alts don;t exist, the bounty system works and a wardec against a solo alt is going to annoy him more than very slightly. I take back my previous statements and judgements of others. -áyou can mine in iteron if you want. |
Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
126
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:43:00 -
[328] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
And where is the evidence to support this belief? It's not supported in the least by the information that is readily available (and that people like I believe Tippia and Malcanis have linked over and over again).
No, that's just believe what fits your wants and needs rather than what you can prove. And it happens all the time here.
Sorry, but I don't think that I am the only one who Tippia and Malcanis have no credibility with.
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Not Politically Correct
Veerhouven Ventures
126
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Posted - 2013.01.30 03:51:00 -
[329] - Quote
Gathrn Manathey wrote:As a newbie, reading through this, it looks like I am supposed to quit my NPC corp and join a player controlled corp... But I am also told not to trust anyone because of, well, everything that is EVE... The main thrust of this topic is about being war dec. Someone, somewhere, wants to be able to pvp people who have trained up for mining instead of pvp... And instead of giving incentives to address WHY they choose to stay in NPC corps, they just want to penalize people for doing so.
For the record, I am not mining, I am trying to train up to pvp/explore, but why should the game change to fit your needs if I can't change it to fit mine?
Very well said, and you made a very good point. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1711
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 03:54:00 -
[330] - Quote
Hedion's oracle wrote:Best solution is to leave well enough alone, working as intended for almost 10 years, if it wasn't CCP Devs would of changed it long ago. If you want targets i suggest stop blueing each other up and fight. No it hasn't.
Yes, they have tried.
Yes, they are going to try again.
Some of you are incredibly deluted. You have no idea how ******* broken your NPC corp is because you've never left it.
Even CCP has refered to the use of the NPC corps as an exploitation of the mechanic that they NEVER intended. |
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