Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Heywood Djiblomi
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 03:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).
One minor problem: NPC corp. I can't wardec anyone.
...nor can someone in an NPC corp be wardecced. But I know you know that already... |
Melody Amatin
was here.
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 04:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Go2 wrote:You may wish to also clarify that this does not include the new player systems. We don't need people bumping the newbro's.
I'm not sure why that would be necessary. I don't think anyone was arguing that bumping in rookie systems was valid and the GMs already have a stern blanket policy to cover this; don't screw with people in the newbie systems. |
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
44
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 11:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
I personally don't understand why people would be petitioning such nonsense. There are ways for avoid this type of tactic being used on you.
An Example: The Stabber in question has a run up on you... You move so that he is no longer going to hit you. Problem solved.
/P |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
187
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 11:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
How about bringing mining exhumer and barge HP's down to a sensible level? That way we can forget about this stupid bumping and go back to sucide ganking miners.
Each patch makes this game more like WOW in space but don't worry CCP every step you take away from PVP allows room for another game to fill the void. I hope you are happy when you are left with only high sec bears as they provide zero to the community, fan fest, 3rd party, video content, Dust 315 content. You pandered to the scrubs of eve with the HP buff and it'll catch up with you when the PVP comunity protests at your up coming hauler buff and high sec greif nerf.
CCP this will bite you in the ass real soon, don't even think it's not going to.
Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
187
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 11:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
Princess Saskia wrote:I personally don't understand why people would be petitioning such nonsense. There are ways for avoid this type of tactic being used on you.
An Example: The Stabber in question has a run up on you... You move so that he is no longer going to hit you. Problem solved.
/P
Their bots are not that sophisticated. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
440
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 12:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Agent Trask wrote:Sulzer Wartzilla wrote: On the surface of it, this seems reasonable, but what if said target is in an NPC corp?
Exactly. Most of our targets for Code Compliance are miners in NPC corps to prevent wardecs. We do not chase them once they have left the belts we are Role-Playing in. We don't use locator agents to hound them. We just want them to pay our fee, or stop mining in the area we are patrolling. This area will often comprise two or three ice belt systems we are currently monitoring.
Says the NPC Corp member.
(Not that i agree with hiding in NPC Corp But....) Seriously, if you are going to complain about miners avoiding wardecs by being in NPC corps, you could at least man-up and post with your main.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Saints Amongst Sinners
39
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 13:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:How about bringing mining exhumer and barge HP's down to a sensible level? That way we can forget about this stupid bumping and go back to sucide ganking miners.
Rubbish, they are now at a sensible level, sure you cannot easily kill a tanked Skiff / Procurer but how many people actually do fit for tank rather than yield, there are many people out there with Hulks and Mackinaws that are fitted for yield and you can kill them easily, in fact the Hulks are the same as before, easy to kill, go and have a look at those that have been ganked and see the truth in that by looking at the fittings, many have no tanks, yet your whining about it like people whining about bumping, HTFUI!
I am actually mining now, I stopped before because I was sick and tired of mining in a ship with the tank of a wet paper bag, even if I tanked it as much as I could, now I mine ice in a Skiff and ore in a Mackinaw and I fit for tank, if you get a kill on me, you will have to work for it! |
Ildryn
The Inf1dels
77
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 13:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:You are mistaken. If you are reported and we find you actively following around a target without a war to continue bumping a specific player, it will still (at some point) considered harassment, even if you divert your 'attention' a little while doing so. If you have a bone to pick with someone, declare a war and take the risk that your target may actually taste blood and fight back (or finds allies for that part).
So when is this patch being released? The patch that actively kicks the miner into a player corp that can be war decced? Is this patch going to effect all types of NPC corp people? Or just the one you want to war dec? Would i be able to war dec someone that does missions as well?
|
Keisha Mei Ash
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 14:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:How about bringing mining exhumer and barge HP's down to a sensible level? That way we can forget about this stupid bumping and go back to sucide ganking miners.
Each patch makes this game more like WOW in space but don't worry CCP every step you take away from PVP allows room for another game to fill the void. I hope you are happy when you are left with only high sec bears as they provide zero to the community, fan fest, 3rd party, video content, Dust 315 content. You pandered to the scrubs of eve with the HP buff and it'll catch up with you when the PVP comunity protests at your up coming hauler buff and high sec greif nerf.
CCP this will bite you in the ass real soon, don't even think it's not going to.
I think all of null and low should declare peace for 1 month this summer and declare an unholy war against all of high sec. Huge ganking partys targetting infamous 1+ year pluss npc corp chars, massive market manipulations, Huge PLEX crashes/ Spikes, swamp all hi sec indy slots with 3 month q's. Sweet! A butthurt ganker! Thanks man, you just made my morning.
It's okay, now you actually have to WORK to kill people that don't want to fight back. |
Kimo Khan
53
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 14:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Princess Saskia wrote:I personally don't understand why people would be petitioning such nonsense. There are ways for avoid this type of tactic being used on you.
An Example: The Stabber in question has a run up on you... You move so that he is no longer going to hit you. Problem solved.
/P Their bots are not that sophisticated.
True bots cannot do anything, but neither can a 100mps barge. I got bumped from a gate while trying to make a run for it . Even while trying got bumped 30km from the gate. It was a rather nice bump and the attackers earned a nice kill, but to say that you can always avoid this is utter non-sense.
I don't have a problem with bumping. I have a problem with bumpers used in conjunction with a gank event, them selves not being flagged for assisting the crime. This does not mean flag all bumpers, only the ones who bumped within 10 seconds of a gank being committed against said bumpee. If I can petition for the kill right on said bumper, then that works for me.
Edit: My whole complaint is not being able to take revenge personally on the bumper without being concorded. |
|
StonerPhReaK
Ashfell Celestial Equilibrium POD-SQUAD
102
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 14:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
I support miner bumping when it is done in the form of afk mining and botters and even as a way to secure belts for alliance mineral goals. But NPC "agents" ruin the emergent gameplay in the same way npc miners do. The miners who drop corp due to wardecs are not real miners, And agents conducting operations from npc corps arent real agents. You may as well both be npc's and treated as such. Cannon Fodder. Signature Removal in Progress, Estimated time of completion? Neva |
Bing Bangboom
Ded End Damage Inc. United Sytems Against Terrorist Opperations
128
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 16:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Perhaps its clear to everyone but me but what exactly does this announcement settle?
Someone correct my paraphrasing of the definitive decision on bumping...
A player may bump another player as much as he wants, for emergent gameplay or pvp reasons, as long as he doesn't cross the line into harassment. An example of harassment given is to follow another player to another place, somewhere more than a little distance, and bump them again. The word "follow" is unclearly defined but is open to CCP interpretation on a case by case basis. Also, it is definitely against the rules to claim in your bio that CCP endorses bumping.
Forgive me if I think this resolves nothing. Here is the scenario based on a true event.
I fly into Gosalav and find the ice field rife with bot aspirants (sorry, Whitehound). I bump several, repeatedly, because they are rebel miners and refuse to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct (www.minerbumping.com). I send them all the standard email explaining to them what they must do to be Code compliant. A few bother to respond, some telling me to grow up, others telling me they have petitioned me for "harassment", and some others just telling me they won't pay.
Based on their responses some miners get my special attention and get bumped more... a lot more. All they have to do to get me to stop is pay the 10,000,000 ISK mining fee and agree to follow The Code. Most do not. Some even attempt a gank using alts or friends. After ALL fails, they leave system. I bump a few more, the miners clear out and Gosalav is subdued with no one mining in the ice except Code compliant miners.
So, I move a few jumps to Fabum. And find another ice belt full of afking and botting miners. Now, under the new "ruling" I can bump any of these miners EXCEPT those who have fled here from Gosalav. If I bump them I may be subject to an interpretation of this policy as harassing the miner. I didn't go looking for them, I moved on because I had "won" in Gosalav. But, even from the miners perspective, how can anyone know why I found them again? So the miner thinks, "Bing bumped me, I moved, Bing bumped me again, ah hah! harassment! PETITION TIME!"
So now some GM has to decide whether I am, in fact, harassing a miner by bumping him. Nothing solved.
Highsec is worth fighting for.
Bing Bangboom Agent of the New Order of Highsec Belligerent Undesirable |
Keisha Mei Ash
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 16:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Yep, so yet again, you have to work harder, and you cannot continually bump players who want nothing to do with the New Order. I really don't understand why you can't process this in your mind. |
Bing Bangboom
Ded End Damage Inc. United Sytems Against Terrorist Opperations
128
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 17:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Keisha Mei Ash wrote:Yep, so yet again, you have to work harder, and you cannot continually bump players who want nothing to do with the New Order. I really don't understand why you can't process this in your mind.
Proving my point. Miners STILL think we can't bump them into submission.
BBB |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Saints Amongst Sinners
39
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 18:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote:Keisha Mei Ash wrote:Yep, so yet again, you have to work harder, and you cannot continually bump players who want nothing to do with the New Order. I really don't understand why you can't process this in your mind. Proving my point. Miners STILL think we can't bump them into submission. BBB
You can have a major impact on those that afk mine for plex, but if you bump me, I would just sit there and laugh wondering how far you can bump me out and cheering you on while trying to make it hard for you, so no you cannot bump people like me into submission, because not everyone who mines does so in yield fitted ships and are afk.
Griefing and harrassment is a fine line, If you had gone there after everyone had moved off then they would not see it as harrassment, but if one or two moved and you did not force everyone out and started on them two again in a new location then you might find yourself in trouble, you have a campaign to force your code on defined systems, stick to that and your likely to be safe.
Do you only operate in Gallente space by the way?
In terms of the decision, a common sense decision by CCP, I for one want no mechanisms around bumping, the griefing community would have a field day with manipulating such a mechanism, personally if some afk miners get bumped away what the hell do I care... |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 19:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
I read and want to know one thing.
according to what GM state. person can't bump other person forever when other person make effort to stay away from him by jump to other system, etc. But what about those corp whom goal is to bump miner. would corp get punishment for this action? |
Bing Bangboom
Ded End Damage Inc. United Sytems Against Terrorist Opperations
128
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 19:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote:Keisha Mei Ash wrote:Yep, so yet again, you have to work harder, and you cannot continually bump players who want nothing to do with the New Order. I really don't understand why you can't process this in your mind. Proving my point. Miners STILL think we can't bump them into submission. BBB You can have a major impact on those that afk mine for plex, but if you bump me, I would just sit there and laugh wondering how far you can bump me out and cheering you on while trying to make it hard for you, so no you cannot bump people like me into submission, because not everyone who mines does so in yield fitted ships and are afk. Griefing and harrassment is a fine line, If you had gone there after everyone had moved off then they would not see it as harrassment, but if one or two moved and you did not force everyone out and started on them two again in a new location then you might find yourself in trouble, you have a campaign to force your code on defined systems, stick to that and your likely to be safe. Do you only operate in Gallente space by the way?
Writing things out still leaves room for mistaken intent I guess. What I mean is she clearly thinks we aren't allowed to TRY to bump them into submission.
Now, as far as the fine line, this is my point. If I space lawyer the announcement I CAN follow them from Gosalav to Fabum because its two jumps. GM Karidor said it had to be more than one or two jumps. He also said the miner needed to make some effort to avoid being found again such as making locating agents required. Or not. Its all very grey.
As far as defined systems, we DO do that. The New Order of Highsec clearly states that we are only interested in systems with security status of .5 to 1.0. This is how we define where we operate and where we expect miners to follow our Code. So, the miner COULD move to lowsec or null and avoid us. Inconvenient maybe but effective. Even more effective is buying a mining permit and following The Code.
In any case, I expect the miners we bump will still continue to petition us and will use this announcement as authority to call us harassers. I still find it rediculous that in a game famous for destroying peoples ships, stations and even organizations that bumping into someone is considered over the line. |
Bantara
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote:Now, as far as the fine line, this is my point. If I space lawyer the announcement I CAN follow them from Gosalav to Fabum because its two jumps. GM Karidor said it had to be more than one or two jumps. He also said the miner needed to make some effort to avoid being found again such as making locating agents required. Or not. Its all very grey. Dang, does that mean you'll have to use good judgement, common sense, and a sense of what might cross the line into harassment?? Yikes....
|
Bing Bangboom
Ded End Damage Inc. United Sytems Against Terrorist Opperations
129
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 21:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Bantara wrote: Dang, does that mean you'll have to use good judgement, common sense, and a sense of what might cross the line into harassment?? Yikes....
So the answer is sometimes bumping is harassment and sometimes its not...
I guess we have SOME guidelines now. I can bump someone morning, noon and night, as long as its in the same system or within a couple jumps. And if I feel like I'm getting too close to the edge on the harassment I can just call in a Knights fleet to gank their 200 million ISK Mack and pod them without being petitionable.
I can work within those boundaries.
I know CCP had a tough time trying to find the right balance on this. The final decision is pretty generous to us bumpers. I just know from months now of working with the miners that any sliver of doubt will be 100% proof to them and the complaints and petitions and forum threads will continue.
I would have preferred them to stop at "CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another playerGÇÖs ship as an exploit." and not put the "However" and opened it all back up again.
BBB |
Tark en Chalune
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
14
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 23:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Says the NPC Corp member.
(Not that i agree with hiding in NPC Corp But....) Seriously, if you are going to complain about miners avoiding wardecs by being in NPC corps, you could at least man-up and post with your main.
Feel better now?
As long as miners continue to hide in NPC corps to avoid PvP while AFK mining and botting, I will continue to use my Ganking alt, in an NPC corp, Agent Trask, to blow them to hell.
I will also continue to role play this alt as a thug who will use deadly force to enforce an unwanted code on these AFK players because doing so is hilarious, and I have every right to role play in EvE Online, even if some scrubby bot miners get asploded in the process.
If this offends you, I am waiting for you in wormhole space. No wardec required.
Hope this helps, have a nice day. |
|
Melody Amatin
was here.
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 04:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote: So, I move a few jumps to Fabum. And find another ice belt full of afking and botting miners. Now, under the new "ruling" I can bump any of these miners EXCEPT those who have fled here from Gosalav. If I bump them I may be subject to an interpretation of this policy as harassing the miner. I didn't go looking for them, I moved on because I had "won" in Gosalav. But, even from the miners perspective, how can anyone know why I found them again? So the miner thinks, "Bing bumped me, I moved, Bing bumped me again, ah hah! harassment! PETITION TIME!"
This clarification (from page 1 - this post) pretty clearly states that moving a few jumps away is NOT sufficient on the part of the miner to "evade" you and you would not be harassing them if you bumped them again in your scenario (emphasis mine):
"While it will involve inconvenience, we will have to see that one actively tried evasion before we consider someone being followed around and harassed. Merely changing belts in the same system or moving a few thousand meters to another asteroid would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly, requiring some effort to locate you again (i.e. through locator agents)." |
Keisha Mei Ash
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 07:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tark en Chalune wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote:
Says the NPC Corp member.
(Not that i agree with hiding in NPC Corp But....) Seriously, if you are going to complain about miners avoiding wardecs by being in NPC corps, you could at least man-up and post with your main.
Feel better now? As long as miners continue to hide in NPC corps to avoid PvP while AFK mining and botting, I will continue to use my Ganking alt, in an NPC corp, Agent Trask, to blow them to hell. I will also continue to role play this alt as a thug who will use deadly force to enforce an unwanted code on these AFK players because doing so is hilarious, and I have every right to role play in EvE Online, even if some scrubby bot miners get asploded in the process. If this offends you, I am waiting for you in wormhole space. No wardec required. Hope this helps, have a nice day. Hot damn, Jint, you got spanked. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
441
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 14:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
Guess I did.
However he is still complaining about a tactic his enemies use, while using the same tactic. Basically claiming its ok for him to do so because they are, while complaining about it on the forums.
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy in that.
But if he is juts targeting AFK Miners.. then get to it. Good Hunting!
Anyway, we are getting close to derailing this thread......
Back to Bumping.... GO....
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
800
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bantara wrote:Bing Bangboom wrote:Now, as far as the fine line, this is my point. If I space lawyer the announcement I CAN follow them from Gosalav to Fabum because its two jumps. GM Karidor said it had to be more than one or two jumps. He also said the miner needed to make some effort to avoid being found again such as making locating agents required. Or not. Its all very grey. Dang, does that mean you'll have to use good judgement, common sense, and a sense of what might cross the line into harassment?? Yikes.... What happens if the GMs who deal with the petition take a slightly different meaning from Karidor's words? I mean, if we're leaving it up to anyone's interpretation of 'harassment', it could be [y]anything[/i].
You have become the pubbie, Mittani. Yours is the temple whose technetium-clad tables are at risk of being overthrown, whose seats need mixing. You're the one who fears war. -- Sadleric |
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
152
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
This is a great decision. Well done CCP.
In response James 315 has issued a "Call to Bump" for this Sunday! Pick a side, fit an appropriate ship, and come join us in Brapelille at 21:00 EvE time.
please visit www.minerbumping.com for details. Between Ignorance and Wisdom |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis
424
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
It will be interesting to see what spin the "rebellion" puts on this news. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
800
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
admiral root wrote:It will be interesting to see what spin the "rebellion" puts on this news. Which one? I think Anslo has given up on his blog - he's managed to put out a total of three or four posts this whole month, none of which contained any content at all.
The Tolero Guard didn't last any longer than Jake Salvator himself did, and this one never even edited the default WordPress post.
You have become the pubbie, Mittani. Yours is the temple whose technetium-clad tables are at risk of being overthrown, whose seats need mixing. You're the one who fears war. -- Sadleric |
admiral root
Red Galaxy Persona Non Gratis
424
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:admiral root wrote:It will be interesting to see what spin the "rebellion" puts on this news. Which one? I think Anslo has given up on his blog - he's managed to put out a total of three or four posts this whole month, none of which contained any content at all. The Tolero Guard didn't last any longer than Jake Salvator himself did, and this one never even edited the default WordPress post.
I don't think anyone has seriously contended the throne of Anslo so far. Not even this guy, although it's hard to rise to the top and maintain your sekrit identity.
Still, maybe this will galvanise the opposition into taking decisive action against us, thus bringing victory to the New Order even sooner. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Mike Adoulin
Trans-Aerospace Industries
159
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
Sara XIII wrote:This is a great decision. Well done CCP. In response James 315 has issued a "Call to Bump" for this Sunday! Pick a side, fit an appropriate ship, and come join us in Brapelille at 21:00 EvE time. please visit www.minerbumping.com for details.
You have my 100mn AB fitted Talos.
*salutes*
|
Kainotomiu Ronuken
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
800
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 22:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
admiral root wrote:I don't think anyone has seriously contended the throne of Anslo so far. Not even this guy, although it's hard to rise to the top and maintain your sekrit identity. Still, maybe this will galvanise the opposition into taking decisive action against us, thus bringing victory to the New Order even sooner. That one is new to me. Thanks for the link.
Is he actually doing anything, or just complaining about people shooting his barge?
You have become the pubbie, Mittani. Yours is the temple whose technetium-clad tables are at risk of being overthrown, whose seats need mixing. You're the one who fears war. -- Sadleric |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 24 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |