no, you explained how the profit is not different.
whether one person owns all 20 accounts, or 20 people own the 20 accounts is irrelevant.

profit per account is the only thing that does mean anything. the reason people detest botting is it's because isk while you are physically not playing the game. that's not even remotely similar to multiboxing.

that is completely wrong. a miner mining with 20 accounts is earning profits at EXACTLY the same rate as 20 miners handling 20 accounts. because multiboxing does NOT make your cycles shorter or your yield higher. why do people think otherwise? honestly, please explain it to me. i don't understand why people think this.

do you even know what multiboxing is? the more i read of your post the less i think you do understand what it is...

yeah, at the same time CCP also told people like you to shut up already and get over it.

how can you see one message so clearly, and not the other?

Does botting make cycles shorter? Does botting make your yield higher? No it doesn't.

What botting does is vastly reduce the amount of effort a player is required to input. (almost zero effort once the bots are in place)

This is the same thing - to a smaller degree.

No scripts, but one person moving a mouse on dozens of clients/computers simultaneously.
Instead of one person getting 20 rewards for zero work with a bot,
one person is getting 20 rewards for performing the work of 'one' person.

People arguing in favor of this kind of automation keep arguing, "Oh, Oh, he's still putting in one unit of work, though, so its OK." I say this is bullshit.

Using software to multiply your efforts 20 times, in my view, isn't much different than running a script to automate 20 commands, with regards to the 'work in, reward out' equation.

Its nice that you keep pretending that I don't understand what 'multiboxing' is. I've been pretty clear.
I'm not against somebody running multiple machines, or multiple clients on one machine. I do it my self.
I just think those accounts should be controlled manually without 3rd party tools to replicate mouse movements or clicks 20-30 or 100 times.

Do you understand my position now? Or are you going to continue to mischaracterize it?

I got to say they have a point, they do pay for extra accounts and they are the computer moving the mouse with effect....

Are you mad because you cant do the same thing?

Edited by: GM Lelouch on 23/04/2010 15:52:45
Hello there,

To make a long story short, automation of gameplay is not permitted; players must be manually issuing the commands to control their character(s) at all times.

Our stance on programs such as Synergy and hardware/software combination such as the G15 keyboard is that they can be legitimately used as long as gameplay isn't automated. Synergy allows you to move your mouse cursor to multiple different monitors which are hooked up to different computers and we do not have any qualms with players using the program for this purpose. If Synergy was used in some way to control your accounts for you without a need for you to be at your keyboard, then that would not be allowed, but I am not aware of such a functionality with this program. If Synergy is used in conjunction with some other program to automate gameplay, it would not be permitted. G15 "macros" which allow you to group different commands into one keypress are allowed. For example, setting your G1 key to press F1, F2, F3 and so on for you with one key press is allowed (although this specific command is not as useful as it was before now that we have weapon grouping).

An exceedingly complex G15 macro which would effectively automate gameplay, such as mining, without a need for the player to be present at his keyboard would be against the EULA, regardless of whether the player utilizing said macro is sitting at his keyboard at the time!

Lastly, multiboxing is allowed, and programs designed for multiboxing in mind which allow a player to manually issue the same command to multiple game clients at the same time are allowed. In the same vein as what has been stated above, the player must be manually sending the commands; if a program is automating those commands for you, then it would be considered a breach of our EULA.

I hope this clears up this matter.

Best regards,
Senior GM Lelouch
EVE Online Customer Support



Good luck with your thread....

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1291641&page=10#274

THIS! Pretty much closes the issue.

With Miner Bot 2000* each account will still be making ISK at normal speed. So by your argument, Miner Bot 2000 is perfectly legitimate. I would say the issue is far from being an open and shut case.

*Miner Bot 2000 is a fictional name representing a class of software that will run your mining fleet for you while you're at work, asleep or playing other games.

read the above. you must be at the computer give commands with your fingers.... the computer can't run without your fingers... if they do then it's auto program which runs with out you their......

I don't know any human who can press keys on 40 different keyboard within a split second.

The thread was about getting people to realise the power advantage that multiboxing software provides. Just because CCP currently allows multiboxing doesn't mean the situation can't change.

I don't know any human who can press keys on 40 different keyboard within a split second.

The thread was about getting people to realise the power advantage that multiboxing software provides. Just because CCP currently allows multiboxing doesn't mean the situation can't change.

I don't know any human who can press keys on 40 different keyboard within a split second.

The thread was about getting people to realise the power advantage that multiboxing software provides. Just because CCP currently allows multiboxing doesn't mean the situation can't change.

I don't know any human who can press keys on 40 different keyboard within a split second.

I don't know any human who can press keys on 40 different keyboard within a split second.

The thread was about getting people to realise the power advantage that multiboxing software provides. Just because CCP currently allows multiboxing doesn't mean the situation can't change.

I don't think anyone is saying that multiboxing, or multi-clienting is a bad thing.

I just don't think using 3rd party software to simultaneously control 10-20-50-100 accounts is appropriate.

If someone wants to set up an ice mining operation, fine - but I expect all cargo loading/unloading, targeting, harvester activation, etc be done manually for each client. (Fleet warp is OK, its an in-game mechanic provided)

The only difference is people with multiple accounts make more ISK than you. That's the only thing I can see why people hate.

let's put this in a way where semantics can't get in the way:

botting is automation
multiboxing is duplication

I am no Korean RTS pro, so I find it possible someone could manually play 30 clients.

What are you going to tell them?

But no matter how fast you are in terms of Actions Per Minute, you still can't press the same key in 30 clients instantaneously without some form of power amplification (i.e.: keystroke broadcasting).

I'd say it's about even. 1 person running 20 accounts won't be nearly as effective as 20 people running 1 account each.

Congratulations. You just made it impossible. Market inflates from lack of resources. 100 accounts no longer subscribe. Good business decision there mate.

Well, of course. But the end result of a guy broadcasting 30 keystrokes and a guy manually ALT tabbing like a pro is the same, isn't it? Both affect the economy in the same way, both pay the same number of subs, both will i.e. mine ice at the same speed. How can CCP even discern the two? I am fairly sure they don't have a software that correlates 30 accounts to their actions instant by instant.

This is pretty much the end of that argument. While I was in RvB there was a guy who ran a 4 account multibox setup (Hi SG-1 Team) to 'solo' and we took him out with 3 guys who were working together on comms. There is no 'power advantage' to multiboxing unless you are talking about mining, and lets face it, there is more than enough to go around with that.

With the recent news of the Eve-uni multi box botting scandal, I think it is time to ban multi box programs.
Any program that allows 1 player to operate 30 characters, even just for movement, should not be allowed. Why are they allowed to hit 1 button and insta warp 30 characters to safety instead of dealing with the consequences of not being able to manually move them all in time to prevent a gank. A click is a click and any program that duplicates one is not following the spirit of action vs. consequence that this amazing game is based upon.


I, Kal Mindar, deem that multi boxing programs are a EULA breaking form of automation that undermines the integrity of this game.


Edit:
This is pretty sad. I have never seen such a lack of reading comprehension in my life. I started this thread to petition against ONE thing only and that was Duplication of clicks via a 3rd party program.
From there, you guys have talked about fleet warp being duplication? Really? An in game feature is 3rd party software?
Ban multi boxing? Are you kidding? No one said anything about one person being able to control multiple accounts.
OP is just mad/poor/idiot/etc..... I use 4 accounts to play this game, I multi box, I have plenty of $ thank you for isboxer or more accounts.

Give your collective heads a shake. This thread is about a program doing the work that a person should have to do in order to keep the playing field even. Eve central fine. Spreadsheets fine. Pyfa fine. None of these perform in game clicks for players. You have to understand clicks are what sets the tempo for how long it takes to do things. Automate any part of it and it undermines the level playing field that must be there. Anyway, some really great posts for both sides of the discussion. Just too bad so many people seem to have missed some simple points to keep this thread on topic. Hopefully CCP got some good player input and can use it to continue making this game freaking amazing.

I love you all.

Fly safe o7.

Kal

Multiboxing actually increases the amount of interaction on the players part once it's up and running because they have to manage more accounts at one time.

I'd like to hear more of this story. Was his problem simply lack of combat experience? Poorly skilled pilots? Poorly fitted ships?