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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14064
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Posted - 2013.02.14 17:56:00 -
[121] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Mag's wrote:Whitehound wrote:I can also see a positive side on such a limitation, because once one comes close to the limit or simply cannot place another one will some choose their bounties more wisely. This can (does not have to) lead to bounties of a higher value. The thought is that when one cannot place endless little bounties then some will place a few big bounties instead. This would play into the hands of bounty hunters. Choose more wisely? Why should we say what's is and isn't wise, about any bounty placed? No, this is not what I meant. Players want to place bounties for many reasons and the most common reason will perhaps be retaliation. What it should not be is to place them for the sake of placing them, which is currently the case and because bounties are new. Point is, players want to place bounties and when they are being restricted will they not just sulk and walk off, but they will try to find ways to work around the limitation. So some will use alts (no surprise here), but some will simply place higher bounties as for their retaliation instead of many little ones. Others will try to place corporation and alliance bounties more often than individual bounties. This is why I believe it will play into the hands of bounty hunters when players are being forced to place bounties more wisely. Bounty hunting has to face the mass of little bounties, which are simply not worth going for. So these really have little meaning until the ISKs eventually pile up, which means it is going to take a while and then a retaliation may have lost its purpose and it is only a lot of notifications to the players. Well I see your point. But it still boils down to their reason for placing the bounty, is not what you would reason to be a good one.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.02.14 18:01:00 -
[122] - Quote
EVE has a pretext of law and order. There are criminals, there are suspects, there are people who skirt the law. There are people who are jerks. Being a jerk is not illegal. Placing a hit however, does not fit within the established pretext of law and order. If it's illegal to loot someone else's container, then it should be illegal to offer a payout on someone's head. |
Whitehound
813
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Posted - 2013.02.14 18:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Well I see your point. But it still boils down to their reason for placing the bounty, is not what you would reason to be a good one. Yes, of course. I do not judge them based on what may have triggered the bounty (ship explosion, theft, etc.), but what it means for the game play of EVE. The more meaning something has got, the more fun it becomes. Just like loss is meaningful.
Or what is good about many little bounties when nobody likes to go for them? It actually becomes pointless to argue why a particular bounty is good or why it is bad, when in the end nobody cares for it. SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14064
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:05:00 -
[124] - Quote
Lei Gao wrote:EVE has a pretext of law and order. There are criminals, there are suspects, there are people who skirt the law. There are people who are jerks. Being a jerk is not illegal. Placing a hit however, does not fit within the established pretext of law and order. If it's illegal to loot someone else's container, then it should be illegal to offer a payout on someone's head. Nice edit.
You seem to be playing the wrong game. A game where criminals hide in all areas and are not bound by NPC standings. Or you're simply still confusing a game, with RL. Who knows?
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14064
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:08:00 -
[125] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Mag's wrote:Well I see your point. But it still boils down to their reason for placing the bounty, is not what you would reason to be a good one. Yes, of course. I do not judge them based on what may have triggered the bounty (ship explosion, theft, etc.), but what it means for the game play of EVE. The more meaning something has got, the more fun it becomes. Just like loss is meaningful. Or what is good about many little bounties when nobody likes to go for them? It actually becomes pointless to argue why a particular bounty is good or why it is bad, when in the end nobody cares for it. On that we'll have to agree, to disagree.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.02.14 18:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
Mag's wrote:You seem to be playing the wrong game. A game where criminals hide in all areas and are not bound by NPC standings. Or you're simply still confusing a game, with RL. Who knows? What are you even talking about? People with neg sec status show up in high sec all the time. What does that have to do with the bounty system? |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
221
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Posted - 2013.02.14 18:13:00 -
[127] - Quote
Lei Gao wrote:EVE has a pretext of law and order. There are criminals, there are suspects, there are people who skirt the law. There are people who are jerks. Being a jerk is not illegal. Placing a hit however, does not fit within the established pretext of law and order. If it's illegal to loot someone else's container, then it should be illegal to offer a payout on someone's head.
Lots of things in Eve don't follow real world logic, so that's not a particularly strong argument. And most of the activities Psychotic Monk describes WOULD be illegal in real life, but are deemed legal in-game in terms of CONCORD intervention.
Also its not like having a bounty on your head means people can safely attack you, they still need the killrights.
Honestly I think between the tradeable kill rights and the new bounties, things are looking a lot better.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14064
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:14:00 -
[128] - Quote
Lei Gao wrote:Mag's wrote:You seem to be playing the wrong game. A game where criminals hide in all areas and are not bound by NPC standings. Or you're simply still confusing a game, with RL. Who knows? What are you even talking about? People with neg sec status show up in high sec all the time. What does that have to do with the bounty system? Bound as in anyone can be a criminal. Even noobs. The fact you thought I only meant neg sec players, speaks volumes.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.02.14 18:19:00 -
[129] - Quote
Takseen wrote: Also its not like having a bounty on your head means people can safely attack you, they still need the killrights.
Which I did state in a previous post, and makes the bounty system pretty useless.
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Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.02.14 18:22:00 -
[130] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Lei Gao wrote:Mag's wrote:You seem to be playing the wrong game. A game where criminals hide in all areas and are not bound by NPC standings. Or you're simply still confusing a game, with RL. Who knows? What are you even talking about? People with neg sec status show up in high sec all the time. What does that have to do with the bounty system? Bound as in anyone can be a criminal. Even noobs. The fact you thought I only meant neg sec players, speaks volumes. Okay then. Explain to me what you mean. Without asking me if I can read, please. And for the record, I was not assuming you meant only neg sec players, that was just an example I used. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14064
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:39:00 -
[131] - Quote
Lei Gao wrote:Mag's wrote:Bound as in anyone can be a criminal. Even noobs. The fact you thought I only meant neg sec players, speaks volumes. Okay then. Explain to me what you mean. Without asking me if I can read, please. And for the record, I was not assuming you meant only neg sec players, that was just an example I used. The status of criminal, has a different meaning within the bounty system. Any player can be considered a criminal by another player. Some may have a very high sec status, but their actions with a corp or individual, may have made them highly despised and thus wanted.
Then someone may consider a players actions in a chat channel criminal and place a bounty on them. As daft as any reason may sound to you and I, it's their reason and I believe we should respect that. Many calls for change, seem to be based on this. People think the reasons are wrong and want it limited to stop what they consider are, bad bounties.
One of the early reasons for limitations, was the charge that everyone was getting a bounty. That it wouldn't be long before all of New Eden, were flying around with 100k. But this has all but vanished, mainly due to CCP's blog and it's numbers.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
673
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 18:59:00 -
[132] - Quote
This all begs the question, though, why people seem to feel that not interefering with others gameplay in a direct way should be considered morally right, or "good", and why being "good" should be a protected game style.
It's a bit like going into a game of Team Fortress 2 and not shooting anyone and saying that you should also be immune to being shot because of it. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
673
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:05:00 -
[133] - Quote
To follow that along, should no space get invaded if the owners of it acquired it through peaceful means? Should nobody's orders ever get undercut?
Should nobody ever initiate an action against another player in any way? If so, what do you propose the end state of this should be?
Or should only certain motivations allowed in order to take an action? Should wars only exist so that carebear corps can clear off the abandoned POSs of other carebear corps? Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Whitehound
816
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Posted - 2013.02.14 19:10:00 -
[134] - Quote
And shall I eat pizza tonight?
(I thought I add another important question here.) SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14066
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:11:00 -
[135] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:And shall I eat pizza tonight?
(I thought I add another important question here.) I've just had Thai.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:20:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mag's wrote:The status of criminal, has a different meaning within the bounty system. Any player can be considered a criminal by another player. Some may have a very high sec status, but their actions with a corp or individual, may have made them highly despised and thus wanted. Placing a bounty doesn't make a player a criminal, nor is a player considered a criminal simply because he or she has a bounty. Nothing in the dev blogs, the Retribution notes on bounties, or in evelopedia state that. The Retribution notes say that it's another means for pilots to seek redress. That's all. Nothing about criminals. There are some pretty clear rules on what makes a criminal a criminal, and another player can't just decide that.
Quote:Then someone may consider a players actions in a chat channel criminal and place a bounty on them. As daft as any reason may sound to you and I, it's their reason and I believe we should respect that. Many calls for change, seem to be based on this. People think the reasons are wrong and want it limited to stop what they consider are, bad bounties. Well, it is daft. I don't have a problem with players putting innumerable hits on other players, but how about we call it what it is and stop pretending that Player B is a criminal because Player A decided that he was. Player B is not a criminal if he hasn't met the guidelines already set out, and that's what I mean by people who skirt the law. It's annoying and Player B may be a jerk, but he's not a criminal.
Quote:One of the early reasons for limitations, was the charge that everyone was getting a bounty. That it wouldn't be long before all of New Eden, were flying around with 100k. But this has all but vanished, mainly due to CCP's blog and it's numbers. I was pretty surprised that more people don't have bounties because someone was handing them out to nearly everyone in Rookie Chat my first day. That's pretty obnoxious, and not to mention frustrating for noobs who don't really know what it means or how it works.
But, CCP doesn't care what my opinion is anyway because they've made it clear that they're more than happy with how it works. |
Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:29:00 -
[137] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:This all begs the question, though, why people seem to feel that not interefering with others gameplay in a direct way should be considered morally right, or "good", and why being "good" should be a protected game style. Nobody's protected in EVE. If you're a law-abiding citizen and get ganked in high sec, CONCORD doesn't protect you, they punish the guy who ganked you.
Placing a bounty is not a direct interference in someone's gameplay. You're asking a third party to take care of this nuisance for you instead of sacking up and doing it yourself. |
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
674
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 19:33:00 -
[138] - Quote
Paying someone to do something is doing something.
But yes, exactly. EvE does not (or at least claims not to) value one morality over another, and I don't see why they should start with who you're allowed to place bounties on or for what reason. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Santo Trafficante
the united Negative Ten.
5
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 20:33:00 -
[139] - Quote
The bounty system currently kicks ass + the kill rights u can make sum serious cash if u do it the right way |
Angelique Duchemin
Divine Intentions
4
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Posted - 2013.02.14 21:14:00 -
[140] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Placing a bounty on someone who deserves it is meaningless because you're just feeding their ego and placing a bounty can be done so lightly that it's become greatly abused. Greatly abused? In what way?
People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14070
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 21:42:00 -
[141] - Quote
Lei Gao wrote:Placing a bounty doesn't make a player a criminal, nor is a player considered a criminal simply because he or she has a bounty. Nothing in the dev blogs, the Retribution notes on bounties, or in evelopedia state that. The Retribution notes say that it's another means for pilots to seek redress. That's all. Nothing about criminals. There are some pretty clear rules on what makes a criminal a criminal, and another player can't just decide that. Why do I need to rely upon CCP or Evelopedia, to tell me when I or anyone else for that matter, consider someone a criminal? The fact is I don't. If I decide they are in my eyes and I want them wanted, I shall place a bounty accordingly. Or simply shoot them myself. It's not your place to tell me otherwise and this is why you are misunderstanding the bounty system. You are quite obviously still of the mind, that only those with negative sec status can be criminals. How wrong you are.
The bounty system is a player led standings mechanic. When a player places a bounty, they consider that person to be of a lower standing and therefore wanted. It's their personal standing towards that player.
You see Concord, cannot get involved in all criminal activity. They are only there to punish. This is where players need to get involved and dispense justice. Either by facilitating others through the bounty system, or shooting them themselves.
This is another reason why I think the bounty system is great. It opens up the possibility of player retribution. Which is why it's no coincidence, that name was chosen.
Lei Gao wrote:Well, it is daft. I don't have a problem with players putting innumerable hits on other players, but how about we call it what it is and stop pretending that Player B is a criminal because Player A decided that he was. Player B is not a criminal if he hasn't met the guidelines already set out, and that's what I mean by people who skirt the law. It's annoying and Player B may be a jerk, but he's not a criminal. Daft to you maybe, but not to someone else. That's the whole point and one that seems to elude you.
Lei Gao wrote:I was pretty surprised that more people don't have bounties because someone was handing them out to nearly everyone in Rookie Chat my first day. That's pretty obnoxious, and not to mention frustrating for noobs who don't really know what it means or how it works.
But, CCP doesn't care what my opinion is anyway because they've made it clear that they're more than happy with how it works. Many of us expected there to be a mad rush of bounties early on, but other took this as the norm. It calmed down rather quickly, so it's quite obvious it wasn't. I can see you think many bounties are obnoxious, others don't. I have a feeling you'll never see the other peoples views in this regard.
CCP does care, but not for those who think sandbox means the game should only be played their way.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14070
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 21:43:00 -
[142] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:Mag's wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Placing a bounty on someone who deserves it is meaningless because you're just feeding their ego and placing a bounty can be done so lightly that it's become greatly abused. Greatly abused? In what way? People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps. You have figures to show me, just how abused it is?
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
12891
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 21:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps. You have figures to show me, just how abused it is? I'd be more interested in hearing how that qualifies as abuseGǪ?
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Whitehound
821
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Posted - 2013.02.14 21:48:00 -
[144] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Mag's wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:Placing a bounty on someone who deserves it is meaningless because you're just feeding their ego and placing a bounty can be done so lightly that it's become greatly abused. Greatly abused? In what way? People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps. You have figures to show me, just how abused it is? I could show you pictures of my private parts... SCAM CAT - Titan Jump - I was there - Goon Dog |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14070
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 21:50:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mag's wrote:Angelique Duchemin wrote:People spam bounties on hundreds of people just for laughs. This is especially common in NPC corps. You have figures to show me, just how abused it is? I'd be more interested in hearing how that qualifies as abuseGǪ? I was going to ask, but think I know their reason. So thought I'd focus on the figures first.
Vote Malcanis for CSM 8 |
BoBoZoBo
Divine Beasts Nite's Reign
212
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Posted - 2013.02.14 21:51:00 -
[146] - Quote
It certainly works better than the old bounty system.
Now... whether or not it really motivates someone to hunt down the dog you want you want to put to sleep is another story. Chances are, they are more likely to ge the bounty as a result of a kill already in progress than something they chased you for. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
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ISD LackOfFaith
isd community communications liaisons
425
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:06:00 -
[147] - Quote
Deleted a vulgar trolling post. Please stay respectful, constructive, and on-topic, guys. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3557
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:08:00 -
[148] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:It certainly works better than the old bounty system.
Now... whether or not it really motivates someone to hunt down the dog you want you want to put to sleep is another story. Chances are, they are more likely to ge the bounty as a result of a kill already in progress than something they chased you for. Oh, I think many people keep an eye open for bountys as people pass by even if not many go out of their way to hunt someone specific down.
Still, even if they only realize the bounty was in place after a kill they will certainly be pleased and keep an eye out for the person from that point on. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Lei Gao
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.14 22:08:00 -
[149] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Why do I need to rely upon CCP or Evelopedia, to tell me when I or anyone else for that matter, consider someone a criminal? The fact is I don't. If I decide they are in my eyes and I want them wanted, I shall place a bounty accordingly. Or simply shoot them myself. It's not your place to tell me otherwise and this is why you are misunderstanding the bounty system. You are quite obviously still of the mind, that only those with negative sec status can be criminals. How wrong you are. I'm not wrong because they are not necessarily criminals. You can't shoot someone with a bounty with CONCORD nearby if CONCORD doesn't consider them criminals. Bounty =/= Criminal. Do you understand the semantic difference between a bounty and a hit?
Quote:The bounty system is a player led standings mechanic. When a player places a bounty, they consider that person to be of a lower standing and therefore wanted. It's their personal standing towards that player. Your point? Because that person still does not automatically become a criminal.
Quote:This is another reason why I think the bounty system is great. It opens up the possibility of player retribution. Which is why it's no coincidence, that name was chosen. Which, again, I have no problem with. But it's still not a bounty, it's a hit.
Quote:Daft to you maybe, but not to someone else. That's the whole point and one that seems to elude you. What seems to be eluding you is the difference between, "I don't like you" and "You're a criminal."
Quote:I can see you think many bounties are obnoxious, others don't. I have a feeling you'll never see the other peoples views in this regard.
CCP does care, but not for those who think sandbox means the game should only be played their way. ;) Probably not, given that I had a 100k bounty my first day in EVE, and not because I asked a question, but because I answered one.
Well, you want the sandbox your way and your way just happens to be the way it's currently played, so how are you any different? All I'm saying is that in a game that does have legalities (loose as they are, I mean really, how can CONCORD possibly know if I loot someone else's container?) that a "bounty" system of placing a price on a character for any reason doesn't make sense. |
Miss Spent Youth
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.14 22:18:00 -
[150] - Quote
Yes See my thread |
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