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What's the interest of the new low-sec systems ?

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PriceScout	Posted - 2005.08.20 17:55:00 - [1] A couple of hours ago I was checking the map for podding zones (a reflex since the last changes to eve map). I switched on "Show Escape pod destroyed in the last 24" and instead of usually seeing big red spots at the entrance of the 0.0 areas, these big red spots were right in the middle of the Empire zone in <0.5 SL system. Koumonen (0.4) : 37 pod kill (Bleak - Heimatar) Tannolen (0.3) : 39 pod kill (The Citadel - Verge Vendor) Siseide (0.3) : 27 pod kill (Heimatar - Everyshore) Meanwhile, the entrances to 0.0 area were often under 20. What's the interest of all this ? Giving some fun to two cents pirates ? Usually you have a couple of BSs doing a rampage whenever a ship enter the system. The only effect is to make the trade route longer, spoiling Hauleurs/traders'game experience. These players are shooting at everything, it is not even a question of easy money making. I even heard a player complaining because he got podded in a shuttle and lost his implants. I know that it is legit but to me it looks more like griefing than gaming. There is no challenge in such gaming, just the pleasure of spoiling other's time. When will CCP manage to transform the 0.0 areas into a real challenge ?! Instead of having thousands of players fighting in 0.0, you only have huge empty areas and thousands of what I call griefers shooting carebears in Empire. What's the point of putting these low sec systems between Empire regions ? I thought CCP's aim was to bring more people in 0.0. You failed with Exodus and still failing.
Majin Buu	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:05:00 - [2] empire wars???? 5 ATUK
Syrec	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:06:00 - [3] Lots of empire pirates simply aren't tuff enough to roll with the big boys in 0.0. Unless you have X amount of skills, certain ships, mods etc, it usually isn't advised that you try to pirate in 0.0 because you will meet people in 0.0 with good ships. In empire once your flag is off the carebears can't shoot you. The empire rules provide a blanket of security for newb-rats. It can also be very profitable. Since they aren't losing as many ships as they would in 0.0, they can make off with some nice loot.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:07:00 - [4] I had a corp mate lose a ship to one of the same camps. She was in an mwd'ing interceptor so the campers are well prepared. (So don't see me as entirely unsymathetic) Perhaps the "traders and haulers" could - Band together and go and bust the camp - Check the map themselves and gasp avoid the area - Travel on instas or in tougher ships I can justify everything with a reason and counter arguement. It gets old. Podded in a shuttle? Well the camper just got an offer for implants from his agent. He's creating a market. It's been said a million times. You accept the risk when you ignore that pop up warning. Adapt or avoid. Dont whine.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Syrec Lots of empire pirates simply aren't tuff enough to roll with the big boys in 0.0. Unless you have X amount of skills, certain ships, mods etc, it usually isn't advised that you try to pirate in 0.0 because you will meet people in 0.0 with good ships. In empire once your flag is off the carebears can't shoot you. The empire rules provide a blanket of security for newb-rats. It can also be very profitable. Since they aren't losing as many ships as they would in 0.0, they can make off with some nice loot. Tundragon are one of the corps operating a gatecamp today. They normally operate in 0.0 - They are pretty skilled PvP'rs so your whole schpiel up there is just your hopes and dreams and not fact
Ikvar	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Syrec Lots of empire pirates simply aren't tuff enough to roll with the big boys in 0.0. When you go under -5.0, everywhere is 0.0
X'orena	Posted - 2005.08.20 18:54:00 - [7] The best agents are in low sec space. Which means, transports loaded with agent loot and BS's fitted with agent loot.
Viceroy	Posted - 2005.08.20 19:25:00 - [8] How about doing something about it instead of crying your heart out on the forums? You have all the advantages from a game-mechanics point of view, yet you're still whining that it's unfair. What is unfair exactly? The fact that pirates utilize more of their brain cells? Quit moaning about "griefers!" and "ruined gaming experience!" (:~~~[river]~~((() and mount some sort of counter-attack. It's not that hard to kill a -5 sec status guy who has sentries pounding on him, or a sniper at 150km range who has nothing but damage mods and tracking computers equipped. Don't blame the system for your own incompetance, and if you can't handle it, move back to 0.5+ where's it's nice and safe. __________________________ Finite Horizon Your end is our beginning.
Andrue	Posted - 2005.08.20 19:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Andrue on 20/08/2005 19:31:06 Yeah this could put people off Eve. I (a char of mine anyway) have lost two haulers and one clone to these jerks. They tried to take down that char's Maller last time but didn't have the right setup. That char didn't even have plates fitted but he got away. Although it is within game rules and game mechanics I think CCP need to look into this. A little risk is one thing but getting ganked at a gate in half a second is another. One thing that can put most people off Eve is feeling trapped in a station or system. Take away the freedom to travel and Eve is a horrible experience. It's all well and good to say people should fight back but a lot of people don't want to. With the recent map changes you can really shaft someone's enjoyment of the game with a gate gank. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Tairos Hakonnus	Posted - 2005.08.20 19:41:00 - [10] I WAS GANKED I AM SAD (<3 Vice) ---------------------------- http://spla.sh/bp/bp_files/main.htm
Avon	Posted - 2005.08.20 22:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Andrue It's all well and good to say people should fight back but a lot of people don't want to. That's fine, but it is at that point that they lose the right to complain. ______________________________________________ Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2005.08.20 22:46:00 - [12] The need to compete, and thus the need to fight back, should never be removed or made insubstantial. However, it would be nice to see more ways to 'fight back' then just fitting guns and shooting them. I could imagine how Eve would look quite differently if economic warfare would become a reasonable tool of competition as well for example.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.08.20 22:52:00 - [13] Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 20/08/2005 22:53:09 I like hunting down pirates, these new chokepoints are great as its no longer hard to find one PS: Take the long +0.5 route around. ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
sableye	Posted - 2005.08.20 22:59:00 - [14] ok I don' like pirates but they are the only thing that makes low security actually low secuirty, I've hadmany a good tangle with a pirate. If they are camping somewhere you move get your corp todo something about it or join with allies, in my corp if its a major incedent we will join with friends and go clear them. when the autopilot was broken it used to send you through one 0.4 space when traveling from amaar to gallente space, anyway a corp member got nailed but we took some fighters to that system and they logged, now logging may not the greatest of fights but it means you won, we ke[pt that system clear that night, but I did pod that poor pirate later that week as they were in my home system of renyn in a pod with -5 :) (talk about luck).
Xelios	Posted - 2005.08.20 23:00:00 - [15] Pirates mostly, BS either sniping beyond sentry range or warping in/out while tanking them. And we don't ONLY have griefers in empire, there's TONS of fighting going on in 0.0. Pirating in empire is a perfectly legit activity, 3 systems have a lot of pirate activity and you're whining that they should be in 0.0 instead? Maybe you should spend some time in 0.0 and see how many people are actually out here already before declaring Exodus a failure because a few pirates in low sec empire are playing a perfectly legit (and advertised) career. ____________________________________________________________________
Xander XacXorien	Posted - 2005.08.20 23:24:00 - [16] It is too easy to grief Eve players - especially newbies - this is wrong. The Corporation system is too restrictive and again allows too much exploitation of players. Would be nice to introduce co-operatives as well as Corps IMHO. Fleet combat is very poor. A group of ships should not be able to concentrate their fire power on one spot - there should be some account made of where guns are mounted and the line of fire - u should not be able to shoot through other ships, asteroids, debris, space stations, planets, moons,,, you know - the solid stuff. Corporation members end up being nothing more than bums on seats in a fleet battle. Little or no skill is required - it's purely a matter of numbers.
Marie D'Artois	Posted - 2005.08.20 23:34:00 - [17] Nine BSes with support ships is hard to avoid and too tough for a small corp to take out. One ship lost isn't the end of the world, though. I know my friend is looking to return the favor. Marie D'Artois Legal Counsellor Team JAVELIN
Kar Brogan	Posted - 2005.08.20 23:37:00 - [18] Want to utalise lowesec and the advantages it entails? (low rent, ok ore, ok rats, mission reward increase) well you have to be ready to fight for it. My corp has lost a number of ships to pirates 'shrug' it happens. Note, however, that your average gate camping battleship is NOT setup for pvp but rather for a shoot 'n' scoot.A number of camping battleships in our area of operation have been driven off by cruisers and frigates no less. Figure out what is sustainable Pvp for your financial situation (ie what ship can you afford to loose 1 of every day) and throw them into combat.You will be suprised
Grant Smith	Posted - 2005.08.20 23:48:00 - [19] It does seem ironic when people get killed in lowsec yet complain about it when it happens. If you aren't prepared to lose your ship/pod then don't put it in a compramising position. I've had hatemail off people, some have even tried to get me to buy them a new ship. I have no sympathy for the whiners. If you can't afford to lose it - don;t fly it. You know the drill.
nitr0s	Posted - 2005.08.21 00:53:00 - [20] Same thread, differen day I find it amuzing though taht a BOB guy would complain. Maybe he could look at the scum he flies with that camps these systmes (hello bnc).
Brisi	Posted - 2005.08.21 01:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Syrec Lots of empire pirates simply aren't tuff enough to roll with the big boys in 0.0. Unless you have X amount of skills, certain ships, mods etc, it usually isn't advised that you try to pirate in 0.0 because you will meet people in 0.0 with good ships. In empire once your flag is off the carebears can't shoot you. The empire rules provide a blanket of security for newb-rats. It can also be very profitable. Since they aren't losing as many ships as they would in 0.0, they can make off with some nice loot. "Aren't 'tuff' (read: tough) enough to roll with the big boys in 0.0? I have to say that this is bull****. Firstly, it doesn't take a very long time gate camping, untill you reach -5.0 or below, and at this point, empire is actually more dangerous than 0.0. Second, whenever I go on an op to some 0.0 space, we can never get a fair fight. It might look like our fleet of 3-4 BS's plus support, is about to engage a similar fleet, however, the moment we engage, 20 more ships appear from the other gate. This happens all the time, how's this for 'fair' PvP? At this point 'X amount of skill' is completely redundant. Also, yes, you can make quite a profit from camping gates in empire. However, it's also very easy to lose ships, I don't think the difference from a 0.0 gatecamp, and an empire one is all that different. Except in empire, you have all the different merc corps looking for action (KIA, Battle Angels, I'm looking in your direction ) which is all good, but from the campers view, much more of a risk.
Jebidus Skari	Posted - 2005.08.21 01:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Syrec Lots of empire pirates simply aren't tuff enough to roll with the big boys in 0.0. Unless you have X amount of skills, certain ships, mods etc, it usually isn't advised that you try to pirate in 0.0 because you will meet people in 0.0 with good ships.
Elrathias mkII	Posted - 2005.08.21 01:44:00 - [23] dammit i cant find the m0o iwin button hack program screenshot. anyone got a linky?
voodoo	Posted - 2005.08.21 01:49:00 - [24] lol i went through one of these "gatecamps" in empire. I happened to be moving a BS around. Really wasn't too concerned with the pirating problem in empire, Im normally in 0.0 or in the station lounge. I merrily jumped into the 1st of 3, .3 systems, to reach my destination. Yup there they are. These empire pk'ers everyone so despises. My overview says these are some friendly dudes and have yet to make it to our red list. Plus theres these two sentry guns surely they wouldnt bother me at a gate. Once the first one fired I began to laugh as the sentry gun begins to fire. The the other ships begin to fire as well. Not at me but the remote armor repairers were feeding this guy armor. My laughter inside began to leave. I was in aw at there masterful attempt to destroy my newly produced megathron in such a fashion. At that point an uergent message came in from my destination system.... It read " Dinner time 5 min. Hurry home " Oh well enough playtime with these nasty but fun to point at pk'ers. I simply engauged the last of my 7 warp core stabs and went home for a nice dinner follwed by space sex with aliens. moral of the story Don't be late for dinner I wasn't The Blue Pills Make Me Happy
Allen Deckard	Posted - 2005.08.21 02:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Viceroy How about doing something about it instead of crying your heart out on the forums? You have all the advantages from a game-mechanics point of view, yet you're still whining that it's unfair. What is unfair exactly? The fact that pirates utilize more of their brain cells? Quit moaning about "griefers!" and "ruined gaming experience!" (:~~~[river]~~((() and mount some sort of counter-attack. It's not that hard to kill a -5 sec status guy who has sentries pounding on him, or a sniper at 150km range who has nothing but damage mods and tracking computers equipped. Don't blame the system for your own incompetance, and if you can't handle it, move back to 0.5+ where's it's nice and safe. Just currious but where do you see the advantage of game mechanics? If you don't want to ruin your sec status you have to wait for the pirate to agress and if you out number or out power the pirates they simply wont agress. This gives the advantage to the pirate if you ask me.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.21 03:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Allen Deckard Originally by: Viceroy How about doing something about it instead of crying your heart out on the forums? You have all the advantages from a game-mechanics point of view, yet you're still whining that it's unfair. What is unfair exactly? The fact that pirates utilize more of their brain cells? Quit moaning about "griefers!" and "ruined gaming experience!" (:~~~[river]~~((() and mount some sort of counter-attack. It's not that hard to kill a -5 sec status guy who has sentries pounding on him, or a sniper at 150km range who has nothing but damage mods and tracking computers equipped. Don't blame the system for your own incompetance, and if you can't handle it, move back to 0.5+ where's it's nice and safe. Just currious but where do you see the advantage of game mechanics? If you don't want to ruin your sec status you have to wait for the pirate to agress and if you out number or out power the pirates they simply wont agress. This gives the advantage to the pirate if you ask me. They are -10. You can shoot them anytime and any place. You have been in the game long enough to know this.
PriceScout	Posted - 2005.08.21 06:19:00 - [27] 1/ I'm not saying that it is unfair to be killed in low-sec. I'm just saying that going from one region to another is now so long that it transformed low-sec systems into new highways. If someone get podded because he mined/hunted/missionned in 0.4, that's part of the game. 2/ For gamers focused on trading and industry (and they also have the right to play the game, PVPers don't own Eve) it is very easy to avoid these systems so the only result is to longer the hauling times. Therefore spoiling the game experience. 3/ There is no glory in podding industrial in 0.4. That's why I'm talking about griefing. Pirates in 0.4 are just 2 cents PVPers. So stop walking on the moral high ground and call others whinners. Should I count the number of times pirates whinned on this forum ? 4/ It seems quite easy to recover from a security loss. You just have to spend some time killing npc pirates (and btw keep on earning money with bounties). Maybe CCP should make it harder to recover security points and therefore having "professionnal pirates" having -5>-10 security status instead of -1.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2005.08.21 06:41:00 - [28] Originally by: PriceScout 1/ I'm not saying that it is unfair to be killed in low-sec. I'm just saying that going from one region to another is now so long that it transformed low-sec systems into new highways. If someone get podded because he mined/hunted/missionned in 0.4, that's part of the game. 2/ For gamers focused on trading and industry (and they also have the right to play the game, PVPers don't own Eve) it is very easy to avoid these systems so the only result is to longer the hauling times. Therefore spoiling the game experience. 3/ There is no glory in podding industrial in 0.4. That's why I'm talking about griefing. Pirates in 0.4 are just 2 cents PVPers. So stop walking on the moral high ground and call others whinners. Should I count the number of times pirates whinned on this forum ? 4/ It seems quite easy to recover from a security loss. You just have to spend some time killing npc pirates (and btw keep on earning money with bounties). Maybe CCP should make it harder to recover security points and therefore having "professionnal pirates" having -5>-10 security status instead of -1. Everybodies trips got longer. It's hard to recover sec status. Do the maths. It's harder post patch too. Really, do the maths. Don't just spout off about it.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.08.21 07:05:00 - [29] Originally by: PriceScout 1/ I'm not saying that it is unfair to be killed in low-sec. I'm just saying that going from one region to another is now so long that it transformed low-sec systems into new highways. If someone get podded because he mined/hunted/missionned in 0.4, that's part of the game. Uh, its ok to kill someone in lowsec when they mine hunt or mission but not when they travel? Well damn I didn't know about this rule! And here I was playing for years not realizing its not part of the game to do such things, boy do I feel silly! Quote: 2/ For gamers focused on trading and industry (and they also have the right to play the game, PVPers don't own Eve) it is very easy to avoid these systems so the only result is to longer the hauling times. Therefore spoiling the game experience. Hmm. Higher risk, higher reward... lower risk, lower reward.. You know whose game experience this would ruin? Carebears! Quote: 3/ There is no glory in podding industrial in 0.4. That's why I'm talking about griefing. Pirates in 0.4 are just 2 cents PVPers. So stop walking on the moral high ground and call others whinners. Should I count the number of times pirates whinned on this forum ? Oh sweet, more useful insight. Podding haulers in 0.4 has no glory, but in 0.0 its perfectly ok. Catching people off guard loaded with goodies is a perfect example of grief play. All low sec pirates can't pvp. Aaannd..pirates are walking a high ground because of this! Wow. Quote: 4/ It seems quite easy to recover from a security loss. You just have to spend some time killing npc pirates (and btw keep on earning money with bounties). Maybe CCP should make it harder to recover security points and therefore having "professionnal pirates" having -5>-10 security status instead of -1. 1. Try it, or don't pretend you know what you're talking about. 2. Nice contradiction, your "two cent pvpers" who ruin there sec status in one day are also the professionals. On behalf of the Non-aligned Pirates of Syndicate (NAPS), I bring you the following message: NWO is good. It affects us all equally. You will learn to like it, and like it you will. And.. one day, you will forget there ever existed a time when all of eve was 5 jumps within Yulai. That is all. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
PriceScout	Posted - 2005.08.21 07:30:00 - [30] I suppose killing carebears is your favorite activity, Digital commie ? Quote: Uh, its ok to kill someone in lowsec when they mine hunt or mission but not when they travel? First it is a good thing to learn how to read. That is useful to answer someone else's post. Quote: Hmm. Higher risk, higher reward... What is the higher reward for TRAVELLING in 0.4 ? Quote: Catching people off guard loaded with goodies is a perfect example of grief play. All low sec pirates can't pvp Complete non-sense. Read what you write. Quote: 2. Nice contradiction, your "two cent pvpers" who ruin there sec status in one day are also the professionals. I put the word professionnal between quotes, since you seem to don't know what's the meaning of quotes in a sentence, I'm gonna rewrite my sentence with less irony : they are professionnal pirates in the sense they chose piracy as their main activity. I can understand that you don't like me criticizing your main (and probably) only activity in Eve. But please, if you want to debate bring some real points in the debate. Concerning the NAPS quote, good for them but I still don't agree with their point of view.

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