Yes, in that case the PvP player can act before the PVE player. The exact reverse of the other situation.

It's got nothing to do with butthurt. AFK cloakers put null systems out of action at no cost to the cloaker, with no risk, and with zero effort. I don't think people should be able to do that while AFK. If you want to actively cloak in a system and put it out of use, that's fine, but it does not add to the game to allow AFK players to do it 24/7.

Sigh...
This has been covered numerous times. I hate that people keep jumping in here, and raising things that they easily could have read about sever hundred times over in this very thread.
The issue is you can't see who's AFK and who's not. So treating anyone as AFK is a moronic idea. The whole "AFK people can't hurt anyone" has been discussed over and over, and it's one of the stupidest arguments going. The easiest way to see it, is:
If I was going on fire a gun at your chair where you sat, but you didn't know if it was loaded or not, and you had full control over staying in that chair or getting up, would you remain seated and risk getting shot in the head?
It's that same thing. It's simply not logical to remain in system with a cloaker when there are so many other systems to play in.

AFK cloaking exists to deny content for no reason, the AFK player gains no gameplay from it as they aren't there. It's counter productive to a game to deny content. I can;t understand why anybody supports that. Worse still, most people that support it whine to no end about other AFK activities like AFK miners, which takes considerably more actual play time.

I'm not grasping at anything. Sure, there's an advantage for someone in a system, prepped to react to someone coming in. Of course there is. But that is not created by local. That is created by the fact that the person in the system has a static environment to observe, wile the arriving player has a change into an unknown environment. If they changed it to to a POS module or a scanner, it would be EXACTLY the same, since the person already in the system is still looking out for new arrivals. The people punished would be those who are unable to put an intel chain in place, and the people with the most to gain would be those with the covops cloak, making them far more useful than their non-covops counterparts.
Just because you want to close your eyes and ignore that, demanding that all PVE players must have a standing army to be able to shoot red crossers or zap rocks, doesn't mean I'm grasping at anything. It means you haven't really considered the problem and instead have simply leapt to a rubbish conclusion.

omg nerf op claoking plz cp give it a fuel cost or somthing i cant even rat

Fuel would nerf active cloaking too. That you cannot handlean AFK cloaker is your problem, not the problem of everyone who uses cloaking devices.

Well while I don't really agree with womyn, but right back at you, if you cant handle local thats your problem, not the problem of everyone who uses local.

Cloaking does not convey a one sided advantage now does it?

Neither does local. Your issue is with loading grid and with session changes, not with local. You mind dropping the "local" distraction and focusing on the issue of afk cloakies with cynos; because I think most of us could care less about a single "afk" cloaky without a cyno. And by "afk," I mean, all cloakies with cynos, because it doesn't even make sense to talk about afk unless the client implements an auto-logoff to reveal the "afk" and to separate the "afk" from the non-afk so a sudden return to the keyboard does not render the "afk" intel meaningless.

Let us proceed toward actually making progress on this topic. I think that my two suggestions bring us fairly close to a resolution, assuming that the op is interested in a real solution. 1) Auto-logoff after 30 minutes without keyboard or mouse input. 2) A cloaky ship may not fit both a cyno gen/covert cyno gen, and the disruption/scrambling module at the same time. Now discuss this with an eye to a real solution to this afk cloaky topic.

Well if it isn't local giving the advantage then changing local should not be a problem because it conveys no advantage.

Kinda messed there didn't you?

There's nothing wrong with cloaking. You idiots are just too butthurt because you got caught off guard by cloakies at one point or can't ~continue normal operations~ of afk mining with your dicks hanging out.

Stop whining about a mechanic when it's your own attitude to it that is at fault.

now suggestion no.1 is that for any ship in space with/without a cloak or is it for any client all together so even people afk in stations are auto-logged off?

Realistically it would have to treat all AFK players the same, which is why IMO, it's better to not log off, but to mark in local and warp to desdspace if in space. Coming back to the PC would be the same as logging on. It just saves the hassle of having to go through all of the launcher when you return, but resolves the issues around AFK players.

I'm not complaining about cloaks. I'm complaining about AFK players. I want AFK players to be warped to deadspace and marked in local as such, so it's the equivalent of logging them off but still allowing them to be logged on (to log chats and save hassle). I have no issue with cloakers.
Thanks for the well thought out response though.

whilst that might sort out the afk issue (at least until someone makes a clicking bot... oh wait) you would be nerfing the primary reason for having a cloaky afk in a system (to deny the enemy access to easy isk). now dont get me wrong, when a couple of constellations of space can be shutdown effectively by one dude and a handful of clients, its not just annoying or aggravating, its a game breaker. When entire corps just sit afk in station or log out instead of playing because of one person and his alts its a problem that needs to be addressed, but not removed entirely.

removing afk cloaking would be taking any advantage away from smaller game entities and giving it back to larger ones, that said its still a broken mechanic.

This should apply to AFK station people as well. Many null players AFK in station. When I'm travelling in null which lately is pretty much always there's a station every couple of jumps with players AFK. They can be there 23 hours a day.

What this means is every couple of jumps I have to run the AFK or Not gauntlet either stopping travel, run the risk they're cloaked at a gate rather than AFK in station and red rover it and risking getting blown up or find a longer way round.

This should apply to AFK station people as well. Many null players AFK in station. When I'm travelling in null which lately is pretty much always there's a station every couple of jumps with players AFK. They can be there 23 hours a day.

What this means is every couple of jumps I have to run the AFK or Not gauntlet either stopping travel, run the risk they're cloaked at a gate rather than AFK in station and red rover it and risking getting blown up or find a longer way round.

No, not at all. I'm beginning to think you are mentally deficient with these responses.
First I'm going to explain:
How does local give a PVE player an advantage? It doesn't. Gate Mechanics give a player in a system an advantage. That's all that can be said.
If local were not there, but there was an effort based system this would STILL BE THE CASE. A player entering system would not magically be able to react before the grid loaded.
Also, it's not a PVE advantage, it's a "whoever's not jumping" advantage.
If player A is in a system and Player B jumps in, gate mechanics give Player A half a second to react over player B. It's doesn't matter what type of player either Player A or Player B is.

And now I'm going to thank you.
Thank you. You are correct. Local is not giving any advantage. I'm glad we've now cleared that up. Can we now proceed with this discussion which is about AFK players, NOT about local?
If you still want to discuss changes to local that you support, which in fact would ADD an advantage, Nikk's thread is specifically for that.

whilst that might sort out the afk issue (at least until someone makes a clicking bot... oh wait) you would be nerfing the primary reason for having a cloaky afk in a system (to deny the enemy access to easy isk). now dont get me wrong, when a couple of constellations of space can be shutdown effectively by one dude and a handful of clients, its not just annoying or aggravating, its a game breaker. When entire corps just sit afk in station or log out instead of playing because of one person and his alts its a problem that needs to be addressed, but not removed entirely.

removing afk cloaking would be taking any advantage away from smaller game entities and giving it back to larger ones, that said its still a broken mechanic.

I'm in the CFC. I have countless regions to play in.

It is clearly local and the gate mechanic/client updating that gives the advantage. Nikk explained this about 60 pages back, so you can cut out the condescending ****** attitude. It just makes you look petty and petulant.

And it paints you into a corner. If local has nothing to do with the advantage, then removing local would not be an issue.

We know it is an issue for you since you think it would ruin null, so we know your argument is a load of horse ****.

[Hint: time to try a new tactic Lucas]

I agree, which is why I think going to the root of the problem is the best solution.

AFK cloaking works because of local. It lets everyone know there is greatly increased risk due to this new uncertain element and one response is to dock up/log off.

No you don't.

You can rat and PvE in some regions, not in all of them.

There is an effective way to fight...bring more people. No, this isn't an argument for blobbing, but just showing up with 5 guys in PvP fit ships to rat will prevent the hot drop (at least the covert ops variety). In this case you don't have to evade, but you may not actually fight...which according to some martial philosophies is the highest level of skill....winning and not fighting.

Fit your carries better.

my issue with 2 is that you then limit potential pvp, e.g. i use a cloaky alt to scout and scan when on pvp ops if i manage to get a warp in on a hostile then without the scram/point he can just warp out before i can decloak, light cyno and then wait 5-10 seconds for the rest of the crew to jump in and load grid from the blops or the titan, now granted this situation only applies to small scale pvp or solo ganks, but in doing so you nerf BLOPS dropping or covert ops gangs in general, seeing as they would be primary people to want a point/scram on a ship with a covert ops cloak.

now suggestion no.1 is that for any ship in space with/without a cloak or is it for any client all together so even people afk in stations are auto-logged off?

To Astro, only the Archon can survive a DD and only if it sacrifices its cap so that its RR is trivial; and it will be into structure after the first DD. And that is only if you know in advance which Titan/damage type will hit you.

Here is another perspective that might help.

Reasonable: The ability to place destructible infrastructure that notifies a channel when a gate has been activated. It could go so far as to cross reference friendly transponder tags, and disregard activations by friendly pilots.
Unreasonable: Identifying any pilot to a hostile force while still under a gate cloak effect, or while in transit resulting in the gate cloak effect.

Being able to know pilot identity prior to them even loading system allows you to online boosters, launch drones, and activate propulsion mods, all in preparation to ambush.
It is more than enough to know that all entries must enter through the bottleneck of the jump gates, being spoon fed decision making intel beyond that is simply beyond need.