CCP have stated on several occasions that they believe that Shield tanking is a bit skewed and too strong at the moment and have been taking steps to bring armor tanking back in line.

Yes please nerf TE's, having **** DPS at acceptable ranges in all kiting ships is more of what we the userbase want

Now for TEs. It's a fairly well accepted fact that the great optimal and falloff bonuses on TEs are over the top, especially considering they can get them while also simultaneously giving decent tracking boosts. The strength of TEs has been one of the reasons for Minmatar dominance in recent years, as well as contributing to the relative strength of shield tanking over armor tanking by inflating the value of non-tank low slots. What we're looking at is simply decreasing the falloff and optimal bonuses of all TEs by 1/3, and leaving their tracking bonus intact.

I don't understand the need for this nerf, but what's really bugging me about it is that in most cases it seems to be a idiotic divide by 2 in terms of bonuses..

Who cares bout the links, your numbers are static against a sitting target at the edge of your fall off (actually past the edge of your fall off to the point that you're in your second tier of falloff). Realistically you'll be doing about 200 DPS with the post buff cane and 250 with your current cane.

Tell me more about how a collective change of 50 dps when fighting at the worst possible range kills the ship as a whole.

The collective change for those that are wondering on his fit for ranges?

Pre TE Nerf:

1.9+20

Post TE Nerf:

1.8+17


I'm going to tell you honestly that you'll likely never notice that difference. You're not as good at Eve as you think you are, the likely hood that you'll be consistantly able to hold at 22km is pretty damn slim, you will bounce in and out of that range with a fair degree of consistency.

So tell me more about your on paper DPS and how the collective change of 50 DPS at the extreme end of your range nerfs your ship.

The truth is the difference isn't really that big. Lets do another fit that you're claiming is "dead".

I don't understand the need for this nerf, but what's really bugging me about it is that in most cases it seems to be a idiotic divide by 2 in terms of bonuses.

A proper rebalance would have looked at the (quite expensive) faction TE's and noticed that these have NO bonus to falloff as opposed to their T2 counterpart.... and increased this falloff bonus a bit so they would be better than the T2.

Right now faction TE's are not worth a dime (except if you have CPU problems) and a proper rebalance would have fixed this.

0/10 CCP for fixing **** that did not need a fix and as you insisted on fixing it, for not fixing it properly.

Seriously anybody saying this is a blaster nerf should probably drink bleach, the change is negligible in range, and I'm seriously curious if any of you have a single clue about ship stats or if you just see the word nerf and lose the farm.

I agree with your sentiments on Remote Sensor Boosters, but I don't think you need to nerf Tracking Enhancers. They may break some ships, yet on most they are fine. I think you should look at those ships instead.

Lol, you're very passionate about this - do explain why exactly this change is needed. I'm a pirate, who flies pretty much all sub-Bs ships, I'll just enjoy my time in another hull/fit, but am very curious where this change comes from.

Finally, the 22km range used is an approximation - ofcourse you'll swing between 20-24km. Irrespective it's still a 15ish % nerf to applied dps. Why are you PL boys so bothered about the 22km number.

Use your 200 vs 250dps number, are you telling me that a 20% applied dps nerf isn't 'really that big a difference?' how much premium are people paying for 5-10% increases using faction/deadspace mods and implants?

Essentially the argument for the nerf is a fallacy. The notion that it is intended solely to re-balance minnie ships is a nonsense. That would be better achieved by either effecting their individual stats or the weapon they use. This does nerf blaster ships that use TE, any idiot can see that.

Here are some EFT numbers for you for damage application at 28K.

All level 5 skills, no implants, no drugs, no heat.

Minni

Hurricane 2TE 2Gyro Barrage: 228 DPS
Cynabal 2TE 2Gyro Barrage: 270 DPS
Stabber 2TE 2Gyro Barrage: 166 DPS
Vaga 2TE 2Gyro Barrage: 277 DPS
Nado 2TE 2Gyro Barrage: 581 DPS

Amarr

Omen: 2TE 2Heat Sink Scorch: 330 DPS
Harb 2TE 2Heat Sink Scorch: 445 DPS
Zealot 2TE 2Heat Sink Scorch: 412 DPS
Omen Navy 2TE 2Heat Sink Scorch: 395 DPS
Oracle 2TE 2Heat Sink Scorch: 649 DPS

Gal (Only one ship reaches out this far with guns that are actually usable... ie blasters)
Talos 2TE 2Mag Stab Null: 678 DPS

Now for the lulzy part: Caldari

Caracal 2BCS with Fury rapid light missile: 236 DPS
Cerberus 2BCS with Scourge Fury rapid light missile: 296 DPS

I will not include any HML because on paper damage is not nearly close to applied damage.

If any one at ccp can understand simple tables, you will notice one thing- giving any of these ships a decrease in optimal or fall off will make everything turn into a brawl. 33% decrease on range for these numbers will make kiting nearly impossible unless you are flying an oracle or zealot. (missile ships excluded)

Why do you hate kiting? Unless you fly a pimped out nado or talos, your pick of cruisers is so limited already. With the proposed changes, you will make almost all turret based ships that are not large size obsoleate, and HMLs / RLMs will rule the sky. Hell even SB's using torps will be viable now. Nothing is going to be hitting them out at 24K anyway.

Please justify this CCP. You clearly have not looked at any of these numbers. Because if you have looked at the these numbers and did still come to the conclusion to nerf TE's asnwer me this-

Why are armor brawling ships becoming the only mode to play this game?

Shockingly not every one that goes out to pvp likes to hit F1 and brawl (or in the case of solo / small gang) get blobbed.

Essentially the argument for the nerf is a fallacy. The notion that it is intended solely to re-balance minnie ships is a nonsense. That would be better achieved by either effecting their individual stats or the weapon they use. This does nerf blaster ships that use TE, any idiot can see that.

I think what you're missing is that the falloff boost NEEDS to be large for it to be worth it. If you're still sitting in web/neut range then what is the point? tracking enhancers either need to give you the option to AVOID getting tackled.

Veiled government conspiracy theory nut post aside, you've absolutely missed what this change is about, it has nothing to do with re balancing minnie ships or nerfing blaster boats, and it even says exactly what its for in Fozzie's OP.

Anything else that you or anybody else has attached to it as the reason is flat out your own creation.

Tracking Enhancer II30201510
Domination Tracking Enhancer30201510
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer30201510

Use your 200 vs 250dps number, are you telling me that a 20% applied dps nerf isn't 'really that big a difference?' how much premium are people paying for 5-10% increases using faction/deadspace mods and implants?

I think what you're missing is that the falloff boost NEEDS to be large for it to be worth it. If you're still sitting in web/neut range then what is the point?

.

So the range bonus is the target here. I would suggest that there be an alternative choice made available for pilots to use a low slot to increase range if the TE is to be mainly dedicated to tracking, and I can see the point of it being so as it's name alone suggests tracking is its primary function. A competing low slot module to increase range so that the ship set up can be more varied would be my idea of a balanced approach to this (while making the TE dedicated to tracking), because the TC provides the means to do both in the mids.


How do u react to that suggestion?

CCP, all your changes mean nothing, because whole conception of damage modifiers in game is wrong.
You have 4 different damage modules:
1. Low slot +damage
2. Low slot +tracking/optimal/falloff
3. Med Slot +optima/falloff/tracking
4. Med Slot +optimal/falloff/tracking

Both med slot module titles contain the word "Tracking", but in reality they dont provide tracking bonus, only optimal+fallof.
at the same time, we have low slot module which provides optimal+falloff+tracking, and it doesnt use capacitor.

Because of this we have all kinds of bonuses for guns with 2 used slots only. You should remove optimal and fallof from Tracking enhancers and move Tracking Link or Tracking Computer from med slot to low.
The main idea is that you can not get huge amount of damage+optimal+tracking at once just using only low slots. you should to choose damage+optimal or damage+tracking or tracking+optimal, and for all three damage bonuses you should use med slots

Stop being a baby the change wont bring you into neut and web range. You literally barely lose anything at all.




I would say that you do have a low slot mod that affects range: Its called the Tracking Enhancer.

The optimal and falloff modifier isn't being removed, its being adjusted downwards slightly, not even really that much per given ship, the actual end result changes are extremely minimal, and largely just bring the module in line with the Tracking Computer (which uses cap).

I could see your point if they had entirely removed any optimal or falloff bonuses but this hasn't happened, and the overall reduction in optimal and fall off isn't enough to raise this much of a stink about.

Which exactly proves my point, the reason being you HAVE to shield tank everything these days, and the current TE exacerbate this problem. You shouldn't get to have all of your tank, plus all of your gank. Trade offs and decisions, considerations, and drawbacks.

The problem that you HAVE to shield tank a Talos, proves the issue. You have to be able to keep up/kite otherwise you lose, as Canes and other ships can apply their dps well within/outside scram range and there isn't **** you can do about it if you are slower than they are.

It is a side buff to armor ships, and it is fantastic.

If you're shield tanking your armor ships, you're gonna have a bad time. Well you should anyway.

TL;DR
lows are more valuable than mids because there are more combat effecting low slot modules; the TE nerf changes that.

Do u want to give me some fitting advice if the change does happen :P

Fortunately that won't be a problem for most kiters, for I have read on these forums that they are the most elite and accomplished of all PvPers, and "know how to fly their ship" rather than just hit Approach+F1.

I don't see a dire need to change them. After this change TEs will give more range than an unscripted TC but less than a scripted one.