So keeping range in a faster ship is "tricky", and trying to catch them with a slower ship is "simple"?

I

I also will not miss the days of Minmatar PvP superiority and can't wait for these changes to come to pass.

It's pretty straightforward when you're fighting one other ship, but have you ever tried maintaining range from a whole bunch of things at once when they're coming at you at different speeds and from different directions? It's not so easy!

.

Rather than fancy EFT warrior skills, I present you with numbers about reality.

RankShipsKills
1Oracle54,779 Shield (primarily)
2Naga51,812 Shield
3Tornado50,412 Shield (primarily)
4Hurricane47,395 Shield (primarily)
5Loki 44,967 Armor (shield possible though)
6Talos44,429 Shield
7Rokh42,509 Shield
8Thrasher40,014 N/A
9Maelstrom34,905 Shield
10Zealot32,453 Armor
11Rupture32,351 Shield
12Caracal32,316 Shield (missiles)
13Sabre31,227 N/A
14Hound29,868 N/A
15Tempest Fleet Issue29,182 Shield
16Drake27,872 Shield
17Talwar25,621 N/A
18Cynabal25,341 Shield
19Stabber Fleet Issue24,882 Shield
20Proteus23,988 Armor

~725,000 in the top 20
~100,000 on armor ships.
~125,000 on speed tanked ships
~500,000 kills on traditional shield ships.
~385,000 kills on shield ships that utilize TEs.


Now let's look at why this trend exists:
* Mobility. Shields are faster, accelerate better, align faster.
* Shield reps hit instantly and still rep for the same amount.
* More base damage potential due to abundance of lowslots

I don't use booster alts, sorry, its soft weakass game play that the young bucks in groups like Pizza can't play without.

https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=498675

Theres more, I haven't been flying them lately because slicers are fairly easy mode compared to flying some of the other frigates, especially when you actually roam pure solo.

It's pretty straightforward when you're fighting one other ship, but have you ever tried maintaining range from a whole bunch of things at once when they're coming at you at different speeds and from different directions? It's not so easy!

Kiting ships are able to engage larger gangs, get kills and not die when the pilots in the opposing gang make mistakes. If they maneuver carefully / intelligently you can't really kill them. You have to let yourself be kited.

Nano kiting blaster ships are absolutely not broken, I don't even know what your'e talking about (coincidentally I don't think you know either!). Blaster setups are generally slower than Minmatar cruisers, do less damage at range and have inferior tracking, so I'm not really sure what you're on about. There's a reason the only commonly-seen blaster kiter is the nano Talos...

well... 1 kill against an ab frig from 2009 is hardly going to make the case. in looking at your kb, i'm not finding any solo kills for like, years. or any in frigates at all for that matter.

no offense, but i think you're a bit out of touch.

These are broke, so we're fixing them.

Ok. People say that its unfair that faster ships should be able to escape because they cannot overcome their speed. I can counter that with. Its completely unfair that ships with more damage should win a fight just because I cannot make more damage then they do!


The simple proposition that there is anything wrong with Kiting is beyond stupid! its just blindness! All and any argument you can make against kiting you can make against brute force combat. Always one side will loose! You need to find a way to counter the advantage of the enemy, that is the whole fun of the damm PVP!


If we cannot have kiting, then we cannot have ships with more damage then others. Also we cannot have ships with more hitpoitn or tank than others. Maybe we should all fly only mining barges!!!

Oracle/Naga/Tornado/Talos shouldn't count in your list because they are the most unbalanced ships in the game. They are faster than t1 cruisers and have ridiculous range, of course they are going to be shield fit.

Rokh is up there because of PL and resistance bonuses.

Maelstrom is because of artillery, not because of kiting.

Tempest Fleet Issue is actually armour and this is goons fit with TWO TRACKING COMPUTERS. get hazed.

Stabber Fleet Issue is usually armour too, either dual rep fit if you have links or plate and sig tank. If you are fitting shield you'd just get a cynabal because fleet stabber has horrible dps.

Urm no they werent do you play eve?

All you have done is make small gang pvp less effective while having little affect on blob warefare.

Can you please explain your 'Vision' for pvp because as i see there is going to be flying t1 cruisers and there will be no shinney stuff worth flying.

I do bereave I said "makie it less viable" not "remove it."

Which is exactly what they're doing. But please, continue to call me dramatic.

Because falloff effectively is worth half. There was a looong mathemathical proof at the old super thread that generated the addition of falloff bonus into the modules.

I'm familiar with the math, but but doing damage is only 1/2 of combat; avoiding taking damage is equally important.

In-game, using TC/TE modules effectively with projectile weapons means that you can consistently remain outside the range of your opponent's hybrids/lasers, esp. if you are flying Minmatar ships which tend to have a speed advantage. Sure, you are doing less damage, but less damage in extended falloff is still far superior to no damage outside of optimal. No one with a half a brain is going to fight within an opponent's optimal, if it isn't necessary to do so.

Why do you think that projectile-fit, TE-equipped Minmatar ships are so overly popular?

Ok. Pay attention people. We have people complaining this is a heavy nerf to Amarr, other saying it will kill blasters, others saying it hits minmatar much more massively. Match this to the whining of heavy missile nerf and.... EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING


That pretty much means its balanced! Everyone is equally unhappy!

Congratulations CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise!

Urm no they werent do you play eve?

All you have done is make small gang pvp less effective while having little affect on blob warefare.

Can you please explain your 'Vision' for pvp because as i see there is going to be flying t1 cruisers and there will be no shinney stuff worth flying.

Raivi doesn't play eve unless its to tournament test, or orbit+f1.

This.

I remember my jaw dropping when TE's got boosted to the level they're at now and thinking it wouldn't be long until they got nerfed back into balance. That was what, about 4 years back when MINNIE GUNS SUCKED and overnight became Winmatar.

I guess it was long in coming, but better late than never.