Small addition -

Obviously many of you seem frustrated that X Y or Z ship that used shields and TEs is getting nerfed, how many ships that don't use TEs are picking up that slack to punish you for this change? HAM caracals maybe? Not drakes right because they just got a big change as well...

I'm genuinely asking because the only space I see being created is for armor based ships that already needed the lows for their tanks - and I don't see those ships becoming stronger than skirmishers based on this change. Am I wrong?

Well assuming you're currently running a 3 t2 TE set up on your zealot your number should look something like this:

48+9.6

Post change:

43+7.8

A collective loss of 5km optimal and 1.8km fall off, no major hit at that range anyway, you literally won't notice, and will still likely be trying to keep your target over 40km, so net change to your playstyle: none.




Look at the bigger picture bro, they've outright stated that the 5% boosts are going away, and that the 3% will return to being the peak command ship boost.

The time line for this was "likely this summer", which would be this release here. Instead of focusing on one single change try to keep the collected lot of them in mind when viewing something. They've said theres a technical bottleneck around removing off grid boosting, but that nuking the t3 cruiser command ship bonuses was 100% coming, the more specialized command ships will get their role back while the jack of all trades t3's will be exactly that, more options on boosting at a weaker power level.

In other words you wont be dealing with scrams and webs at that range unless they're faction, and to be honest you have to deal with faction webs and scrams at the ranges you're operating at now.

I'm genuinely asking because the only space I see being created is for armor based ships that already needed the lows for their tanks - and I don't see those ships becoming stronger than skirmishers based on this change. Am I wrong?

I thought the stabber fit linked about would be an interesting point of reference for the TE changes so I was just fiddling with it a little bit and the results are at the bottom. I think its likely that you will feel this effect (usually between a 5% and 15% Im guessing) at typical engagement ranges for kiting ships like the stabber or the talos - but it seems unlikely that the role of the ship will be compromised to an extent that they would be abandoned. More likely, there will just be some extra room for ships like armor harb or armor brutix to have a role.

The fundamental ability to engage large groups with small ones won't change at all. It may take slightly more time to wear down ships that you isolate, depending on relative ranges, and there may be slightly more flexibility for tackling frigs to be on grid for longer, but overall this change shouldn't shift the meta much.

[Stabber, kiter]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Barrage M
5W Infectious Power System Malfunction
50W Infectious Power System Malfunction

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


BARRAGE 6.5% dps drop at 20k

3.51+37.2 with the old TE 187dps@20km

3.23+32 with new TE 175dps@20km

RF EMP - 18% dps drop at 20km

1.75+24.8 with old TE 170dps@20km

1.61+21.3 with new TE 140dps@20km

Small addition -

Obviously many of you seem frustrated that X Y or Z ship that used shields and TEs is getting nerfed, how many ships that don't use TEs are picking up that slack to punish you for this change? HAM caracals maybe? Not drakes right because they just got a big change as well...

I'm genuinely asking because the only space I see being created is for armor based ships that already needed the lows for their tanks - and I don't see those ships becoming stronger than skirmishers based on this change. Am I wrong?

then you're making the point. unless you can expalin how moving a ranged ship closer is a good idea again?

you're not getting it..

then you're making my point. unless you can explain how moving a ranged ship closer is a good idea?

My biggest objection is simply that it is a blanket nerf. You can't even begin to predict what the meta is going to look like when you adjust a major stim by 33%.

@MainDrain:
Ofc, fixing things is good. There's a ton of things that need more fix than weapons and ships. BTW, with the actual weapons ansd ships people did play just fine, in same time with having some eternal **** when using other modules or a POS.
...whatever. A game presumes it's fun to play it. Not screwing around with ways to go around things and make them usefull. I don't play the best EVE player, because i'm not. I just say that there's a lot of things wich could improve this game , not the Great Nerf, given as a answer to all the problems. It's just the easy way to get rid of a problem. Not necesarely solve the problem.

Small addition -

Obviously many of you seem frustrated that X Y or Z ship that used shields and TEs is getting nerfed, how many ships that don't use TEs are picking up that slack to punish you for this change? HAM caracals maybe? Not drakes right because they just got a big change as well...

I'm genuinely asking because the only space I see being created is for armor based ships that already needed the lows for their tanks - and I don't see those ships becoming stronger than skirmishers based on this change. Am I wrong?

Small addition -

Obviously many of you seem frustrated that X Y or Z ship that used shields and TEs is getting nerfed, how many ships that don't use TEs are picking up that slack to punish you for this change? HAM caracals maybe? Not drakes right because they just got a big change as well...

I'm genuinely asking because the only space I see being created is for armor based ships that already needed the lows for their tanks - and I don't see those ships becoming stronger than skirmishers based on this change. Am I wrong?

I thought the stabber fit linked about would be an interesting point of reference for the TE changes so I was just fiddling with it a little bit and the results are at the bottom. I think its likely that you will feel this effect (usually between a 5% and 15% Im guessing) at typical engagement ranges for kiting ships like the stabber or the talos - but it seems unlikely that the role of the ship will be compromised to an extent that they would be abandoned. More likely, there will just be some extra room for ships like armor harb or armor brutix to have a role.

The fundamental ability to engage large groups with small ones won't change at all. It may take slightly more time to wear down ships that you isolate, depending on relative ranges, and there may be slightly more flexibility for tackling frigs to be on grid for longer, but overall this change shouldn't shift the meta much.

I understand the allure of hyperbole related to the death of the small gang versus the blob - but this change should definitely be considered in the context of a game where a gang with some standard cruisers and BCs with a couple skirmish links can engage at almost any ratio of friend to foe.

Its fun to engage outnumbered (I've heard), but expecting a few extremely strong mods to do a large portion of the work for you seems a bit over the top.

It also seems important to me that since speed isn't actually being effected here, fast moving skirmish engagements will likely look very similar except that during critical moments there will be a slightly higher tendency to commit. This could mean more vulnerability for the awesome small gang of nano pilots, or it could also mean that your prey now has to venture closer to actually apply dps.

I like writing posts but I'm not sure its doing any good

I understand the allure of hyperbole related to the death of the small gang versus the blob - but this change should definitely be considered in the context of a game where a gang with some standard cruisers and BCs with a couple skirmish links can engage at almost any ratio of friend to foe.

Its fun to engage outnumbered (I've heard), but expecting a few extremely strong mods to do a large portion of the work for you seems a bit over the top.

It also seems important to me that since speed isn't actually being effected here, fast moving skirmish engagements will likely look very similar except that during critical moments there will be a slightly higher tendency to commit. This could mean more vulnerability for the awesome small gang of nano pilots, or it could also mean that your prey now has to venture closer to actually apply dps.

I like writing posts but I'm not sure its doing any good

ccp, please.
why do u help the big corps and fleets AGAIN?
the only way that small gangs can fight the blobs is sniper/kitter ships. now u will punish the small corps AGAIN with this TE nerf.
there must be soo much whining about the kiters.
there are lots of modules in the game which need rebalance, but not this one.
this change force ppl to use short range ships, so in pvp the one, who has more friends or more armor going to win. what a fun!

I hope I was able to transmit my toughts and that they can be helpful.

This is a huge buff to tacklers and armor ships which will be good for the metagaming in Eve.