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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
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ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
80
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:22:00 -
[601] - Quote
601 Posts and still going.
Great debate! Let us keep the cross talk going by refraining from the gratuitous use of the Quote button and keeping reply's on topic.
On On ISD Flidais Asagiri Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Major Killz
158
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:22:00 -
[602] - Quote
Dez Affinity wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Again, keep going strong with the great balance changes, you guys are making EvE a much better game. Players will actually use ships other than the few boring nano/shield ones.
The nano facerollers tears are normal, the some thing happend with the speed nerf a few years ago, the facerollers don't like balance. Just ignore them, they are bias as hell. People don't use nano ships because they do the most DPS at range. They fly them so they can run away. Even if they do 50 dps at 20km, they will still be sat at 20km because they are scared to lose their ship. Nerfing their playstyle and subsequently other people's with misdirected changes like this isn't going to suddenly make them brave. They will be cowards after the TE change. EVE will be the same. In fact it will just mean a few more people climbing into Talos Nagas Oracles and Tornados.
f*CK YEAH! COWARD NERF, BEST NERF! Hahaha. |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
167
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:24:00 -
[603] - Quote
Another 20 pages? This nerf is going places. |
Major Killz
158
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:27:00 -
[604] - Quote
Volstruis wrote:I seriously f'n hated reading this post.
It's not TE's that are the problem it's the kiting meta. And I'm sorry, but everytime you whack Minnie pilots in the face like this in the name of balance it actually hurts that I spent 30 days training falloff 5 because there is now no significant reason without TE's to even try fly like that.
In a fair and equal engagement pretty much every Minnie boat dies horrible deaths to Caldari boats. Every single one of em. If you keep going at this rate there will be no reason whatsoever to fly anything but Caldari in pvp.
Or is that the plan? All hail the DraekTengu OVerlords?
Hallowed be thy payload?
I mean how quickly can I sell my Wolves, Ruppies etc etc now.
Fozzie the idea is surely balance, not periodic promotion of one race significantly above others.
Hahaha. Cute! |
Major Killz
158
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:29:00 -
[605] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:whinematards :D so much butthurting qq goes on
btw now te will be balanced vs tc , and thats a good thing
Hahahaha. Biggest Minmatar troll comes out from under the bridge. THIS SHOULD BE GUUD. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:31:00 -
[606] - Quote
Venustas Blue wrote:If your fighting at 0, say in scram & Webb range to be doing affective damage, theres no way to disengage say if your off gate. Unless your ****** fit with stabs or possibly AB fit and able to burn out. The more powerful ship or better counter fit ship will always win. You will not have the ability granted to kiting ships to disengagde by either burning away, or causing the hostile to lose point by pulsing MWD on cross axis so they burn out of range & lose point, allowing you to warp out. There's little skill in fighting at 0 (scram/Webb) range, nerfing TEs kiting ability, wich is an art and skill its self would be yet another mistake by CCP, and a great loss as far as skill goes for the game. There is counters to kiting ships, & as far as minnie ships go, they have already been nerfed enough, dont ruin it by overstepping a reasonable current mark & success. This proposed change to TEs needs to be scrapped. All it would do is subject eve to yet a other nerf of making the game ever easier, this does not inspire anybody to become better within tactics and situational awareness, it only acts to dumb it down, even giving more reason to blob, and there should be no further reason given to blobbing WHAT SO EVER. Should be promoting skill and fun gfs instead. Sometimes it becomes very apparent CCP are out of touch with the game and its tactics, this is as good as any example. A resounding NO to TE nerf from me. Your forgetting that CCP has stated they like blob fleets. |
Alli Othman
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
47
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:33:00 -
[607] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:2manno Asp wrote:
in all sincerity, would you care to share some of those mails in your t1 point slicer, unboosted, where you're not blobbing people to death?
i'd be genuinely interested.
I don't use booster alts, sorry, its soft weakass game play that the young bucks in groups like Pizza can't play without. https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=498675Theres more, I haven't been flying them lately because slicers are fairly easy mode compared to flying some of the other frigates, especially when you actually roam pure solo. well... 1 kill against an ab frig from 2009 is hardly going to make the case. in looking at your kb, i'm not finding any solo kills for like, years. or any in frigates at all for that matter. no offense, but i think you're a bit out of touch. You have downs mate? That's from september of 2012, not 2009. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:38:00 -
[608] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I agree, I think the nerf to TEs is far too harsh, especially considering the ships that generally use them are very deficient in optimal range and require boosts to falloff in order to have decent damage projection.
You're nerfing the skirmish playstyle essentially. I don't like it. I repeat myself from earlier, CCP has already told us that they like Blob fleets. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:44:00 -
[609] - Quote
UR13L wrote:
Not to mention (especially sniper) HACs being completely outmoded by tier 3 battlecruisers - and now even moreso
Uhh... BCs SHOULD be better then cruisers, herp! |
Major Killz
158
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Posted - 2013.03.28 01:50:00 -
[610] - Quote
This should have been done 2 years ago. I argued for a NERF to tracking enhancers back then.
NERFING tracking enhancers will do more to bringing projectiles back inline with hybrids than any of the changes done to hybrids and Gallente ships.
By the way. The proposed changes are not even that serious. You could just put 3 tracking enhancers on a Hurricane (for example) to counter the proposed changes.
Mind you. I do love Minmatar and Caldari ships above all others. Still, this won't effect most Minmatar ships I fly or will fly. I'll be using artillary more than autocannons and missile-Minmatar-ships (Bellicose, Cyclone) sub battleship. Atleast when it comes to solo.
For fleets I'll be ok with Heavy missiles, Light missiles and Artillary.
Oh! I like z blasters and rails on z Talos, Harpy, Dominix, Vexor, Merlin, Cormorant, Rokh and Scorpion too.
To those with TIN FOIL HATS. Did you notice? Why is it that In every patch Caldari make out like bandits?. There has been a serious effort to NERF Minmatar ships or just ignore them and boost everything else. However, then CCP BOOST Minmatar in some random and r3t@rded way.
I think it's funny.
- killz |
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
521
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:00:00 -
[611] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:
By the way. The proposed changes are not even that serious. You could just put 3 tracking enhancers on a Hurricane (for example) to counter the proposed changes.
Yes because hurricanes are both a ship worth flying and are getting an extra low slot.
Also 8x TEs on a ship will bonus it less than a single TD will disrupt it |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4460
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:08:00 -
[612] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:I agree, I think the nerf to TEs is far too harsh, especially considering the ships that generally use them are very deficient in optimal range and require boosts to falloff in order to have decent damage projection.
You're nerfing the skirmish playstyle essentially. I don't like it. I repeat myself from earlier, CCP has already told us that they like Blob fleets. And so do I. That doesn't mean we can't have both. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
151
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:11:00 -
[613] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:UR13L wrote:
Not to mention (especially sniper) HACs being completely outmoded by tier 3 battlecruisers - and now even moreso
Uhh... BCs SHOULD be better then cruisers, herp!
r u trolling? cause u almost got me ;) ;) ;) |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:13:00 -
[614] - Quote
Tub Chil wrote:Any chance of TE-s affecting missiles? In combination with TD-s affecting missiles. CCP was talking about it, why wasn't it done? inability to disrupt missiles is a big problem in any small scale engagement. Indeed, they've talked about it at least for the past 2 expansions and keep just putting it off ... I've been waiting rather long to see it go into effect |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:20:00 -
[615] - Quote
PAPULA wrote: Says pandemic legion who controls fozzie and whole game.
ROfawkingL, I remember a time when this was all goonswarm and other devs being controlled! |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:22:00 -
[616] - Quote
AlexKent wrote:In that case, maybe the TC needs a slight buff to compensate for the loss.
I feel like blasters were finally decent, i really don't want to see blaster ships suffer from this change, IMO it's totally uncalled for. Maybe a small faloff buff is in order for blasters if this change makes it to TQ. Not enough to make them the new OP, FOTM guns, but just so they maintain current range. I agree, let's give the TC a buff to make it even better! |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:25:00 -
[617] - Quote
To mare wrote:i can understand the need of a nerf to TE but since some minmatar ship got rebalanced being weaker than their cunterparts in recent balancing can we take a look at that as well? ^^^ Might be worth some effort, tbh |
Velia Canus
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:27:00 -
[618] - Quote
ISD Flidais Asagiri wrote:Greetings
This is an awesome discussion and want it to keep going, so this is the friendly reminder to keep it on topic and try and resist "quoting" everyone and their brother in one post as it does break the forum rules. Press on with the debate!
On On Quotes are only there because Michael made sense and Fozzie is just being *cough* himself. TE changes are as dumb as it gets. |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:36:00 -
[619] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:beware my moa army. can I join your moa army? I want to fit mine with lazors! |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 02:44:00 -
[620] - Quote
PAPULA wrote:Zilero wrote:I don't understand the need for this nerf, but what's really bugging me about it is that in most cases it seems to be a idiotic divide by 2 in terms of bonuses.. It's Mr. Fozzie being bored and his PL friends doing idiotic changes. Fozzie nerfed missiles first, now everything else will be nerfed also. Dude, get off the drugs, your paranoid enough without them, these hallucinations are pushing you over the top |
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Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 03:09:00 -
[621] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Rek Seven wrote: Oh wait, what's stopping these gate camping fleets from using more remote sebo's to compensate?
You're aware of stacking penalties right? You're aware that after 3 mods the diminishing return on investment makes it not REALLY worth it right? From 1-3 Rsebo's you get a noticeable difference, then from 4-6 you can't even reach the same boost as the first Rsebo that was applied. I'm not familiar with how these insta-locking fleets are set up but effectively, what you guys are saying is that after these new changes are implemented, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to achieve the same scan resolution (or as high is needed to insta-lock) as these fleets have now because of stacking penalties... If that's true then CCP has just removed a legitimate tactic from the game and if it's not true (i.e. you will be able to get the same scan res) then your reasoning, that stacking penalties somehow balance insta locking fleets, is flawed. For what it's worth, I have a legion fit that can almost instalock pods w/out a resebo, so the nerf to it doesn't bother me, it'll still be just that much more effective if I have one on it either way :P |
Pelea Ming
Prostitutes Are Always Wlling
27
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Posted - 2013.03.28 03:20:00 -
[622] - Quote
Sparkus Volundar wrote:
The effect on optimal and falloff is the same regardless of what turret but that does not mean that the effect on projectiles is the same as on other types of turrets (due to falloff damage reduction mechanics).
That would be on purpose, otherwise CCP Fozzie wouldn't have made the comment about minmatar in the OP. |
nat longshot
The RedNeck Posse
167
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Posted - 2013.03.28 03:46:00 -
[623] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Good evening ladies and gentlemen. Got some more Odyssey updates for you all, this time in the form of some module rebalancing! We're going to have a number of module balance changes released with EVE Online: Odyssey on June 4th, and our first batch to announce are the Remote Sensor Boosters and Tracking Enhancers.
Let's start with Remote Sensor Boosters. They give pretty extreme bonuses to scan res at the moment, similar to officer sensor boosters. This has contributed to the growth of instalock camps that are in our opinion are a bit too easy nowadays. So we're gonna decrease the scan res bonuses so that they give a solid but more reasonable benefit over local boosters. We're leaving the lock range bonus of the T1 and T2 remote boosters the same since we don't see them as overpowered for that role, and actually buffing the lock range bonus from the meta remote boosters since they are currently all giving T1 meta 0 level bonuses for that stat right now.
Key stat for this change is that the best Remote Sensor Boosters will have their Scan Resolution bonus reduced from 40.5% to 33%.
Apologies for the terrible formatting (you can copypaste into a spreadsheet and it looks good)
typeNameOld ScanRes BonusNew ScanRes BonusOld LockRange BonusNew LockRange Bonus Remote Sensor Booster I33.82833.833.8 Coadjunct Linked Sensor Array I35.42933.835 Linked Sensor Network40.53033.836 Connected Scanning CPU Uplink37.13133.837 F-23 Reciprocal Sensor Cluster Link38.83233.838 Remote Sensor Booster II40.53340.540.5 'Boss' Remote Sensor Booster I40.53333.839 'Entrepreneur' Remote Sensor Booster I40.53340.540.5
Now for TEs. It's a fairly well accepted fact that the great optimal and falloff bonuses on TEs are over the top, especially considering they can get them while also simultaneously giving decent tracking boosts. The strength of TEs has been one of the reasons for Minmatar dominance in recent years, as well as contributing to the relative strength of shield tanking over armor tanking by inflating the value of non-tank low slots. What we're looking at is simply decreasing the falloff and optimal bonuses of all TEs by 1/3, and leaving their tracking bonus intact.
Key stat for this change is a reduction in the Optimal/Falloff bonus on a T2 Tracking Enhancer from 15%/30% to 10%/20%.
NameOldFalloffNewFalloffOldOptimalNewOptimal Azimuth Descalloping Tracking Enhancer117.45.53.7 Basic Tracking Enhancer106.653.3 Beam Parallax Tracking Program12864 Beta-Nought Tracking Mode10.575.253.5 F-AQ Delay-Line Scan Tracking Subroutines11.57.65.753.8 Tracking Enhancer I2013.4106.7 Sigma-Nought Tracking Mode I211410.57 Auto-Gain Control Tracking Enhancer I2214.6117.3 F-aQ Phase Code Tracking Subroutines2315.411.57.7 Fourier Transform Tracking Program2416128 Tracking Enhancer II30201510 Domination Tracking Enhancer30201510 Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer30201510 Mizuro's Modified Tracking Enhancer31.52115.7510.5 Hakim's Modified Tracking Enhancer332216.511 Gotan's Modified Tracking Enhancer34.52317.2511.5 Tobias' Modified Tracking Enhancer36241812
This change will be somewhat painful for many ships that rely on TEs for range in their current fits, but we are confident that the change is necessary to establish balance between the different weapon upgrade modules.
Let me know what you think!
So you just killed the Mach. with changeing the TE's are you fing kidding me. I just got a Vaugar and i own a Mach and you are going to kill my gun range on both of my mission ships are you fing kidding me.
Btw CCP Fozzie min. auto cannons are a med. range weapons you #@$%$%^%$^&$ they dont come close to blasters and dont have range of rails if we want to hit something far out we fit Atry with take way to much powergrid and cpu and they have **** POOR TRACKING so why do you just put a gun to my fing head and pull the damn trigger.
I dislike CCP Falcon and now iam really not like you on the whole nerf TE and killing the one + side flying min had. ccp thinking = goon meat shield MORONS!!!
-á[13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!! |
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
167
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Posted - 2013.03.28 04:22:00 -
[624] - Quote
I would quote Michael but ISD has already cautioned against that. Needless to say, he is in fact correct. While I consider myself enamored with smallgang, I find myself flying solo the majority of the time. While I can respect the need to keep things in balanced for large-scale fleets, do keep in mind that some of us log in after a long day of work just to solo. While I will not suggest that TE changes will stop solo PvP entirely, I can assure you that "solo PvP" will equate to "use missiles and drones". Sadly, I find myself abandoning further turret training in favor of drone/missile/ TD training because I know those are aspects of combat CCP feels satisfied with and won't touch for some time. I am not going to stop solo PvPing, even if an utter lack of flexibility and diversity in what constitutes a solid ship-choice for solo besets the game. Just keep in mind that while a four-year player such as myself won't up and quit over this, newer players who select turret-heavy races at start and want to try turrets might get frustrated and leave when their chosen weapon system is relatively ineffective against both players and TD-using rats. I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1396
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Posted - 2013.03.28 04:26:00 -
[625] - Quote
Alli Othman wrote:2manno Asp wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:2manno Asp wrote:
in all sincerity, would you care to share some of those mails in your t1 point slicer, unboosted, where you're not blobbing people to death?
i'd be genuinely interested.
I don't use booster alts, sorry, its soft weakass game play that the young bucks in groups like Pizza can't play without. https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_kill.php?id=498675Theres more, I haven't been flying them lately because slicers are fairly easy mode compared to flying some of the other frigates, especially when you actually roam pure solo. well... 1 kill against an ab frig from 2009 is hardly going to make the case. in looking at your kb, i'm not finding any solo kills for like, years. or any in frigates at all for that matter. no offense, but i think you're a bit out of touch. You have downs mate? That's from 2012, not 2009.
Don't tell him he's a ******, it'll hurt is feelings
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Torei Dutalis
Perkone Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.03.28 04:56:00 -
[626] - Quote
I won't lie, did not see this particular nerf coming. Will this break eve? No, probably not. Condors and Atrons will still dominate the novice FW plexes, and Vagas and Cynabals will still kite their hearts out. Sure, dps on many ships will be reduced. Total kills will likely fall, and some ships will surely be flown less (long range null fits). I've never really considered the TE to be overpowered, but 30% is a big number I suppose. Frankly I've always wondered why the TE only takes 15 CPU, but maybe I'm the only one. On the flip side, I don't think that this nerf is necessarily "needed". I'd much rather see balancing team time spent on bringing the rest of the ship hulls into line that still need tweaking. It's good to see navy cruisers are making it in to the summer expansion, but it would be nice to maybe see a pass over some other ships instead of spending time on nerfs that aren't going to really do much to the landscape aside from lowering the variation of fits on the field and likely reducing the volume of pvp overall. Anywho, just thought I'd throw my two cents onto the fire. |
PAPULA
The Dark Tribe
22
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Posted - 2013.03.28 05:12:00 -
[627] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:PAPULA wrote:Zilero wrote:I don't understand the need for this nerf, but what's really bugging me about it is that in most cases it seems to be a idiotic divide by 2 in terms of bonuses.. It's Mr. Fozzie being bored and his PL friends doing idiotic changes. Fozzie nerfed missiles first, now everything else will be nerfed also. Dude, get off the drugs, your paranoid enough without them, these hallucinations are pushing you over the top Oh Mr. wise man.
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Sigras
Conglomo
396
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Posted - 2013.03.28 06:13:00 -
[628] - Quote
nat longshot wrote:So you just killed the Mach. with changeing the TE's are you fing kidding me. I just got a Vaugar and i own a Mach and you are going to kill my gun range on both of my mission ships are you fing kidding me. WHAT?! you mean CCP doesnt want there to be two mission ships that are head and shoulders above the rest?!
WOW
its almost like theyre trying to balance the ships so they all have downsides
nat longshot wrote:I dislike CCP Falcon and now iam really not like you on the whole nerf TE and killing the one + side flying min had. ccp thinking = goon meat shield MORONS!!! LOL the one plus side the minmatar had? LOLOLOL
you mean other than
- Able to switch damage types
- Capless weapons
- Speed Advantage
- Extra Low Slots (for damage mods / TEs)
Please come back when you know what youre talking about . . . |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7214
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Posted - 2013.03.28 06:13:00 -
[629] - Quote
nat longshot wrote:I dislike CCP Falcon and now iam really not like you on the whole nerf TE and killing the one + side flying min had. ccp thinking = goon meat shield MORONS!!!
Because having the only turrets that don't use capacitor and can deal damage of any type isn't a plus side
e;fb ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Volstruis
The Tuskers
19
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Posted - 2013.03.28 06:37:00 -
[630] - Quote
I like how this nerf does next to nothing to blob nagas and such, but is yet another change that makes small gang pvp more difficult. (Sort of like most of the tiericide changes)
Quote:
We have not forgotten solo pilots, even though this ship class does make things somewhat harder for them.
Quote:I am aware that any expansion of logistics capability in eve makes things harder for solo players, and we are endeavoring to make sure that these frigates add options to combat instead of taking them away.
Quote:Improving solo options without either killing fun aspects of group play or making solo too easymode is definitely a goal of ours, but the solution there isn't to keep the learning cliff facing support pilots.
Quote:I understand how much solo players rely on killing key enemy ships fast and how anything that helps gangs keep their ships alive is going to make solo harder. In the end I believe that the stats on these ships will make them managable for solo and small gangs to face.
Pretty much every new thread from fozzie has him saying "I know this makes solo pvp harder but I think its ok"[/quote]
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